Noah
Years ago

Shane Heal to the Saints

Shane Heal tipped to coach the Wellington Saints this year in the NZ NBL. Good energy for the NZ NBL and the quality of coaching in the league. If that team is winning good for everyone, if that team is loosing another story. Heal and Saints owner = two hotheads!

Topic #33619 | Report this topic


bball fan  
Years ago

heal must need the money

Reply #455358 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Good opportunity to grow as a coach.

Players can workout/improve over the off-season when there are no games on.

Coaches don't really have that benefit -- their development is limited really to scouting etc.

So it is a good opportunity for Heal to get some experience and continue the exposure necessary to develop as a coach (in game decision making).

The fact that it is in a different country, in a different league, with a different style will only help his development.

Reply #455359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Have the kings signed him up to coach next year? As wouldn't it be a conflict of interest if he coached in the nz league?

Reply #455360 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Sounds like a money move!.....can't see why he wouldn't be in Sydney woeking out his contracted players to imrpove them for the next nbl season plus keeping an eye on the ABA level to look at bargin pick ups/development players.

Reply #455363 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

NZNBL players arent full time so he could split his time between Sydney and Wellington.

Reply #455366 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Might be a good sign for a second NZ team perhaps. Everyone is talking Wellington.

Reply #455368 | Report this post


Rex  
Years ago

Is he coming back ?

Reply #455369 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

Does the NBL have an MOU with the NZNBL (or any other league for that matter)?

Reply #455400 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

If this is true then he needs to move on immediately.
He should be 100% focused on the job at hand.
Too many blunders have been made on Heal's watch as head coach of the Sydney Kings.
It sounds like a desperate move not one for coaching development.
Coaches don't go to the New Zealand league to develop. If anything they would regress.
If he's negotiating other coaching jobs while being employed to do one at the same time then he has probably sealed his own fate.

Reply #455404 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Talk on Twitter from @MelbTigerTalk is for Wellington to enter the Australian NBL.

I understand that bankruptcy limits Heals earnings here, so would that restriction not be an issue if he earned his money abroad?

Reply #455406 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Seems to be confirmed on twitter/NZHoops.

Corey Webster is close to signing for the Saints again in the NZNBL.

I am concerned of the contractual issues this may raise i.e. Webster playing for the Saints in the NZNBL but for the Breakers in the NBL.

If, or WHEN the Saints enter the NBL do they then need to drop out of the NZ league..and allow a fresh Wellington team in with new management??

Reply #455410 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

I'd assume that they are a separate entity, from a contractual point of view. But if Webster chooses to play for the Saints in the NZNBL, chances are he would play for them in the NBL too.

Reply #455411 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Heal won't be back at the Kings. Lots of rumours around regarding dissension in the ranks. One of the players not happy with him personally nor his coaching style. Good riddance if true - Heal has always been poison anyway.

Reply #455417 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

If Heal's reasons for going to Wellington are financial I see no problem with that he has a family. For all the crap we hang on him he still may lead Sydney to the playoffs but I wouldn't be surprised if the kings had a new coach next season

Reply #455420 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

If this is true then he needs to move on immediately.


It's a business, and if he's planning on doing stuff in the off season, that's fine... The NZNBL is relatively short (runs April to July?), and when do we expect him to organise it? Same as players organising extensions or sussing out new deals, it happens... I'd certainly like to hope that they're having those discussions with a few existing players to make sure they're re-signed for next season before the Free Agent period is happening...

It's fairly similar to a player playing Waratah, SEABL or the like in the off season, developing his skills... When he was coaching Ipswich he split his time in Sydney and QLD, he did scouting, he worked players out, the off season isn't as one on one full on as during the season, I'm sure there will be plenty of time once that's done and dusted to get back into Kings business...

Reply #455423 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

if he is back at the kings next season Wookiee

Reply #455425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Coaches don't go to the New Zealand league to develop. If anything they would regress."

What do you base that on? Give us some examples.

Reply #455426 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

a few Coaches in the NBL cut their teeth in the NZNBL (Dennis, Vickerman etc)

Reply #455434 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This is not a money move as the creditors take anything over $60k.

Wonder if the Kings will go for a real coach as a replacement in 2014-15?

Reply #455435 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah and look how well Vickerman and Dennis are doing.

Reply #455436 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Heal won't be back at the Kings. Lots of rumours around regarding dissension in the ranks. One of the players not happy with him personally nor his coaching style. Good riddance if true - Heal has always been poison anyway.


I think Heal has done more good than bad with the Kings and I wouldn't call it poisonous at all... If anything, the mismanagement from the business is what has hampered the team... Hammer has worked hard with Madgen to help him transform into an 11th player on the end of the bench to runner up MVP candidate and league leading scorer. A lot of that can be put down to Madge's work ethic and determination, but again this season, Hammer is working with him to develop his skills and become not just a great scorer but a more well rounded player...

I haven't agreed with everything that he's done, but I also never agreed with everything that Goorj did either (despite his record and the fond memories, he wasn't perfect either). If he's gone, I will be disappointed, but I would hope that if he stays he develops as a coach and is given the budget and the scope to build this team properly...

I'd be curious to find out these supposed players that are unhappy with his style... Madge seems happy enough, Tommy is flourishing, even Hill when given enough time is going well, if Young isn't happy, I don't really care, the only one that I'd be worried about is AJ, and I would have thought that Hammer had been working on him hard over some Euro off seasons to join the team... Perhaps the reality isn't as advertised? I think he's the premier big man in the league, although maybe not getting the touches, despite what he says in interviews, is getting to him?

Either way, the team needs to be looking ahead to next season... With Ellis the only player signed for next season, star players need to get stitched up: Madgen, Garlepp and AJ should be a priority... Graduating NCAA seniors also need to be looked at, hopefully upgrading the Brandt family and also entertaining a few "local" options when they're in town...

Reply #455439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You could work on being a tad more concise.

Reply #455440 | Report this post


Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

Take a look at Sam Young's twitter account for all you need to know

Reply #455445 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

OK. Will someone more qualified than I, please translate Sam's Twitter?

Reply #455447 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He is bitching (rightfully so) about Heal.

Reply #455448 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Hang on, when did Heal play a victim in any of this? For all his faults, I don't think playing the victim card would be one of Heal's traits.

Reply #455449 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I guessed what Muzz Buzz meant.

Muzzy?

Reply #455450 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

You guessed what he meant, but added "rightfully so."

Ok, cool.

Reply #455452 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

my guess

He is bitching (rightfully so) about Heal?

Reply #455464 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

There is no offseason for an NBL coach. Its a full time job. I'd assume he's done at the Kings if he's taking that gig.

Reply #455467 | Report this post


Stevie Wonder  
Years ago

Brett Brown went from NZBL now hes in the nba

Reply #455470 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

Not a Heal fan but from my observation of Young I would guess that he is pissed because Heal asked him to:

Practice free throws

Pass the fkn ball

Attempt to get a rebound.


If I am coaching a player with the tools that Young has and getting what he delivers in attitude, effort and decision making I'd be having words to him a plenty.

Reply #455473 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

Think can add Gordie to the list of those who coached in the NZNBL.

Reply #455474 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

NBL players go down in their off season. Are they sacked too?

Reply #455479 | Report this post


Stevie Wonder  
Years ago

Sam Young pull ya head in
Shane Heal . cant coach a potatoe into being a chip

Reply #455483 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

@Bowtie. Big dif between a coach and a player in terms of planning for the upcoming season. Players can turn up day 1 of preseason but who on earth do you think organises the team and players and training before that? Lol.

Reply #455489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No one even knows what Sam Young's message is in relation to.

For all anyone knows it could relate to his girlfriend or anything else.

Reply #455493 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Once the Season Awards dinner and players assessments(?) are done, I can't imagine anything Heal has to do that can't be done from where ever he is residing. Isn't the NZNBL quite a short season? Only time I can remember an NBL team not supporting a player or coaching personnel was when Majstrovich left Perth after the finals to start NZ season and had to have permission to miss the end of season dinner. Vlahov gave the ok and docked his pay accordingly.

Reply #455510 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

NZNBL is April - July, I agree with bowtie that there's nothing that has to be done that can't be done remotely, or once a week if he ducks back to Sydney for two days...

Returning players should be stitched up by then (hopefully) and any training schedules/plans should be able to be done remotely by the time players get back from whatever breaks they have planned...

As for Sam Young, the assumptions that that tweet is about Heal is a bit of a stretch, could be about anyone or any thing...

Reply #455527 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

He is currently employed full time as the head coach of the Sydney Kings, therefore I don't think that he should be in the process of recruiting players for his new team, contract negotiations, organizing and planning a season regime along with all the other incidentals that would come with being a head coach. (If this rumour is true that is)
So he's going to be doing all those things while coaching the Sydney Kings??? Surely the Kings won't be getting his best efforts. That is a bit rediculous, doing 2 jobs at once.
Again, things like this make me feel like I'm getting taken for a ride as a fan.
This is the biggest disconnect the fans have had to a Sydney Kings team in years and years and years. There just isn't a whole lot to be excited about as a Sydney Kings fan, management has demonstrated lack of professionalism on several occasions this season.
The entertainment centre looks embarrassing on TV compared to places like Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne. No atmosphere.
Next to nothing media coverage.
Sydney is not an even playing field. It's a tough sporting town. So much competition. Kings fans are traditionally more judgemental and less patient, probably due to the fast pace lifestyle or the high standards of players they have had over the years.
They butchered the Jesse Sanders Sam Young change, hyped it up and delivered embarrassing performances.
They won 4 in a row and nobody cared, then the streak gets broken and nobody cares.
They had to strike while the iron was hot with the Young hype but they failed miserably. Back to back losses to Wollongong hurt.
The most boring Sydney Kings team to watch. Ever.
Sam Young is on a holiday.
I wouldn't be in a rush to retain anybody.
Madgen is overrated. He's on or he's off and does little else to impact the game. He is probably the worst defender in the NBL too.
Harvey is good when he's not injured but can have 25 one week then 2 the next.
AJ doesn't get the ball enough or doesn't want it enough. Who knows?
Garlepp has improved but that is expected with increased responsibility.
Ellis shoots is ok, shoots well but I'm going to have to see more to be convinced.
Carmouche still isn't a point guard.
Hill is up and down.
Kevin White.
Weeks. Gleeson. Allen. Armor. Why!?
L Martin. Bruce. Dann. Why!?
Crosswhite sudden retirement? Why!?
Currently 9-10 and are in the hunt for the playoffs and the head coach's professional focus is not 100% entirely on the job at hand. Joke!

Reply #455528 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Heal and Young just won Coach and Player of the Month, respectively. In your face, JW!

Reply #455537 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"The most boring Sydney Kings team to watch. Ever."

Yep, those 97ppg over the past five have been so boring to watch. Cant they slow down a bit so I dont get so bored?

Reply #455540 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

That Sam Young facial on Casey Frank was such a bore. Those kinds of plays really should be taken out of the NBL game, no one likes them. Absolute bore-fest.

Reply #455541 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

How bad was AJ Ogilvy blocking eight shots against Adelaide? Seriously dude, boring, let us watch some people shoot layups FFS.

Reply #455543 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

I think the 09/10 Kings were far more boring.

Reply #455545 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

I HATE BLOCKS!

And I hate pure shooters like James Harvey curling off picks and splashing jumpers. Sickens me to my core tbh.

Reply #455546 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Last month, Sam Young tweeted;

"I need someone to teach me how to better understand the stock market."

This is IMO an obvious and unequivocal swipe at Heal's financial issues. I'm just making a guess but I also know that its 100% true what he was thinking.

Reply #455547 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

JW21 I do understand where you're coming from, it's frustrating when you're passionate about a sport and a team yet that passion doesn't seem to be reciprocated by management.

But what about the photo with Chris Gayle and Sam Young, surely people cared about that?

Reply #455550 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Kings are currently 9-9, not 9-10.

In amongst all that dredging up of old news, you do actually make one half decent point... While I have no doubt that his primary focus would be on finishing this season strong and getting to the playoffs and doing everything we can to get as far as we can go, (good for the team, good for him personally) having any sort of distraction isn't ideal... I don't think the NZNBL gig would ever be prioritised over the NBL one, but who knows...

There needs to be a distinction between Management issues and coaching issues... You won't get me defending the Kings management at any point, they're a mess behind the scenes and something really needs to change there to improve the whole situation...

Not sure what team you've been watching, but I think there's been a bit to get excited about as a Kings fan at times this season... We managed to lure back AJ who has turned into one of the best big men in the league (his defence has been a huge surprise), all the while being under utilised... we're going to disagree on Madgen, I think he's been great since he's gotten healthier, (often leading team in assists, his role is changing, you can't expect miracles, he's used so much on offence, he can't be a defensive stopper all the time), Ellis has been worth waiting for, (he hustles a lot, still a bit lost at times, but he's only got a handful of games under his rookie belt) and Tommy has stepped up his game and has really worked tough... Other back up players have stepped up at times, but that's the core I can see going forward and it's a good one... Half the players you mentioned down the bottom aren't even on the team anymore and were there long before Hammer came along, when he got the reins, he cut them... Crosswhite retiring is just that. He was always coming back to finish his career back home... Did you ever see him after a game? Iced up and hobbling... While him retiring was a disappointment this season, especially the timing, maybe he saw AJ coming in as his chance not to leave a giant hole in the team and is currently kicking back in his rocking chair on his farm...

As for disconnect, not sure what you're talking about... The community involvement I would wager is at an all time high, all the players do a great job engaging fans after games, Madgen often staying back long after the siren has gone and the handlers are bugging him to get up and head out the back... If the Management aren't making the most of these opportunities, that's not Shane's fault, neither is filling the stadium (you wouldn't want him to take time away from coaching responsibilities, would you?).

The Sanders/Young situation has been done to death and rumour has it that it was out of his hands, again, a management balls up. Hiring his mate in Harvey and possibly Gleeson would be things that we can attribute to Hammer, both long term wrong choices, despite Harvey having that one and a half good games, I think there could have been a better option, but if not, it is what it is...

Reply #455551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

bravo JW21 great post

Reply #455602 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Sam Young in Boti's article on Heal:

"Shane has been doing an unbelievable job at preparing us for these games," Young said.

"Even when we were on our losing streak, Shane did a good job figuring out where we were going wrong as a team and bringing us back together."

Reply #455676 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Boti left out the bit about Sam Young saying Heal was his childhood idol too.

Reply #455681 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I like the fact that he is keen to keep coaching as much as possible, to improve his skills, good on him i say, getting as much experience as possible has to be a good thing.

Reply #455707 | Report this post




 

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