If Will McDowell-White is not included in
this camp and doesn't go to the worlds this
year it will be a GREAT tragedy for
Australian Basketball. It is not often that
someone with his talent comes along.
He is a great YOUNG talent along with one or
maybe two others in this age group who have
Unfortunately too many of the Junior coaches
going around can't see his and other's talent
and want to stifle it with too much structure
and have them play their way only. As if
their way is the only way to win.
In a lot of cases it is too much about the coach and his ego, not the players. Well it didn't work in game two and three of last year's FIBA Championship against NZ. Aus nearly lost it.
Sorry the coaches nearly lost it with the
wrong game plan & structures and not letting
players do what they do best - PLAY on
instinct and not being afraid to take it on, look what NSWC were capable of in Canberra.
The NZ team that played in the U18 AJC in
Canberra had 6 or 7 key players from the team from last November, yet only finished 5th in the AJC, but they beat the Aus U17 team in game 3 and
nearly beat them in game 2. HOW? I'll tell
you how - wrong game strategy & not instilling confidence in each and every player to play on instinct, take the game on, have a crack. Let's face it, all these kids can seriously play, but a lot of them went into their shell, scared to make a mistake, they were like rabbits in the headlights.
Give them a little structure but please let them play and use their instincts and give them confidence to play that way. You just might be a little surprised with what they are capable of achieving.
For what it's worth, IMO, the squad will be:
Jock Perry (VICM)
Isaac Humphries (NSWM)
Tim Molloy-Leigh (VICC)
Deng Gak (NSWM)
Harry Froling (QLDN)
Abi Akintola (VICM)
Kyle Clarke (TAS)
Kuoat Noi (NSWC)
Jack White (VICC)
Dejan Vasiljevic (VICM)
William McDowell-White (QLDS)
Tom Wilson (VICM)
Jayden Hodgson (NSWC)
Darryl McDowell-White (QLDS)
Trent McMullan (VICC)
Matt Owies (VIcM)
Jacob Pupavac (VICC)
Angus Glover (NSWC)
All these kids were either good or great in the recent U18 AJC in Canberra and deserve their opportunity. Most have been to previous camps or already played for Aus in this age group.
For me, the big improvers were Harry Froling, Jack White, Kuoat Noi & Tom Wilson (whilst some others fell away a bit). I think the penny is starting to drop for these four kids and they are realising they can have some serious influence upon games. They just don't need too much advice or structure from the coaches.
Whoever they pick, the coaches would do well just to encourage them ALL to TAKE THE GAME ON, play without fear of failure.
There has been some talk about kids from last year's U16 AJC's in Adelaide forcing their way
into this group. Unfortunately, IMO, only one
new U16 player (Angus Glover NSWC) showed anything good enough in Canberra. But, IMO, didn't quite do enough. He may go to the camp, but won't go to the worlds unless there is an
injury. But he is certainly one to watch for
For the other bottom agers their chance will come in the U19's in 3 years time.
IMO, this group of kids are every bit as talented as the U17 squad from two years ago.
A close examination of the Stats from this year's U18 AJC compared to two years ago would seem to indicate this. The kids listed above boast 8 or 9 that are either good or great from beyond the arc including some of the 3-4 men. This is better than the group from two years ago.
This is a coaches dream.
Good luck to all who get picked, it is a fantastic opportunity.
Well I might be forgetting some injured athletes, but seriously, are any of them of the same calibre as Humphries, Froling, Will White as bottom agers?
As an extremely outside chance, Andrew Panayiotou (VICM).
Name who you think. I've named my squad. Don't forget, ECC and country cup were taken into account as well.
My thoughts on the make up of the squad...
Owies, Glover,Hodgson, Cranney, Vasiljevic, Wilson
White, Noi, Clarke, Akintola, Froling, Cherry
Perry, Humphries, Gak, Molloy-Leigh
5 from Vic M
5 from NSW C
2 from Vic C
2 from NSW M
1 from Qld N
1 from Tas.
Although Owies should probably go to the camp. Others are starting to pass him. He's not as good a shooter as some of the others. Great hussle and harassment, but limited offensively as far as scoring is concerned. If he can't be more efficient at scoring he needs to be an assist beast. Not sure he realises this or if someone's told him.
I agree on Owies, however I think he will be there. Good team man, great understanding of the game, genuine point guard.
Would be interesting to see if there is many changes from Watkins side he took to Melbourne last year for the qualifying series.
What would your team be if you had to name it now?
Have watched Matt Owies play for a number of years, saw him in several games at 18 Nat's last week and he has improved his shot and his offence.
What he brings to the team above the other guards in the Vic Metro team is his team play and explosiveness.
He should be a lock for China and a big chance for worlds, great kid with the right team spirit and attitude, disagree with anon^ on several counts here.
12 to make worlds team if we could pick any:
5 - Maker, Humphries, Molloy-Leigh
4 - Froling, Noi, Akintola
3 - White, Clarke
2 - Vasiljevic, Wilson
1 - Owies, Hodgson
Perry comes in if he recovers in time from surgery, need to find another big if Maker doesn't play, maybe Gak.
Agree Owies is a great team player with great attitude and team spirit, but unfortunately we're at the pointy end now and we have to be brutally honest. He's not enough of a threat from 3 point land. Look at his %age, 3 from 21. Compared to the others, unfortunately IMO, he's got more limitations.
He should go to the camp, but I don't think he will go to China or the worlds. If he goes it will be to be a lock down player for hassle and harassment.
watch and importantly listen to this video of the final the commentary of Andre Lemanis tells a lot about who will be in the squad and position they will play..
likely WC team
2 w. mcdowell-white
plus two others from
Matt Owies, Jayden Hodgson, Angus Glover, Bul kuol, Cranney, Kyle Clarke, Tim Molloy-Leigh
Lemanis talked of a national style of play
disruptive in defence and
use a 'flow' style in offence = structure with lots of opportunity for individual expression, attacking (putting pressure on) the rim. really great to hear.
Finally, thon Maker has stated he is no going to this world champs due to study and busy schedule in the US exhibition tournaments
Agree, good team. Unfortunately, I don't think Will White will go if his brother doesn't make the team. I wish he would, but he's already knocked back an AIS spot as his brother wasn't in the mix. Difficult for the parents and the boys.
Sad for Will if that happens. I've got a couple of kids and unfortunately, as much as you hate to you have to be realistic with their abilities, sadly some aren't.
Be very careful when comparing the statistics from this year with those of two years ago. Clearly the competition on the whole is of a lower quality. Many of the teams that represented their state or territory this year would struggle to win a game in the VJBL under 18 competition this season. Vic Metro apparently won by an average of more than 40 points for each game. This is ridiculous for a "National Championship". The format needs to be changed so that the best really can show what they have against the best. Have a look at the statistics of some of the players mentioned above when they play Vic Metro. You will see a noticeable drop in their outputs statistically. Of the 14 teams at the nationals you could seriously rate 6 teams to be of a national standard. Even NSW Metro this year is probably the weakest NSW Metro U18 group seen for a very long time. Yes the individual statistics are high for the tournament - but there was a great opportunity to "stack" them up by playing against very weak opposition.
Anon #677 I am not so sure about the competition being of a lower standard than 2 years ago. If we are talking the boys teams.
Yes QLD South was weaker, also maybe TAS was not quite the same, but NZ was much stronger and a number of teams had at least three or four changes to their teams, so very hard to make that call I would think.
Pool A may have been dominated by Vic and NSW and Vic were the stand out in Pool B, but Pool B in particular was quite even with 3 teams tied on two losses before finals.
Judging under 18's v under 16's from 2 years ago with a number of changes in most teams seems a bit unfair IMO. Vic M had a tough task against NZ, they only just got over the line in one game v NSW M and if they had the chance Vic C would have come close too.
I think the bigger sides with strong inside games and guards who could apply pressure were always going to give Vic M the most trouble, most teams in their pool didn't have that, unfortunately. Those types of teams were mostly in Pool B.
I'm impressed with the amount of Sudanese guys coming through the ranks just look at the following players
Mathiang Muo (will play for perth)
Wouldn't be surprised to see a few of these fellas play for boomers at some stage.
Think Anon 649 is on the money, according to a source close to the group. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 bottom age players in the final team. No way of assessing Cherry against the competition as he was unwell and didn't play at 18s.
Great to see players of African origin coming through junior programs, wonderful opportunity for them.
Yes, great to see some kids of African origin start to make it.
Just for a moment, let's not compare stats as someone else has suggested.
I have it on very good authority that this year's Vic Metro U18 team beat the Vic U20 team in a practice game just prior to the U20 team going to the nationals in Feb. Now consider this, that Vic U20 team contained three Aus U17 team members from 2 years ago - Purchase, Jackson & Luxford. In case you need it pointed out - these kids are two years younger. The U20's were bigger, stronger, but not better! Oh and by the way the Vic U20 team won the Nationals easily.
Now let's go back to the stats - the 3P% of this group of U18's in undeniably better, at least 10-20% better & there's more of them that can shoot well from 3 point land. So it might be fair enough to say this squad is every bit as good as the U17 team of two years ago. Maybe even better, dare I say it.
Size matter at international basketball tournaments and at u17 worlds we will be well served.
Players in contention over 200cm are probably going to come from' Humphries, Gak, Molloy-Leigh, Clarke, Pupavac, Noi, Perry, Froling and Maker if he is available.
We need size to compete against other countries. Yes we need 3 point shooters and guards who can score but if we want to win a medal we have to feed the monsters lots of leather.
IMO Perry will be given every opportunity to get right to go. 7+ footers don't grow on trees. That's another reason why this group maybe the equal of two years ago. They didn't have any 7 footers. This group have 2 & Gak is almost there as well.
Also, Froling, Jack White & Noi, as well as having good inside games, can all knock it down from outside.
Two years ago they did not have this versatility with the 3-4 men.
I think this U17 team will be competitive and one of the taller line ups has had since U19 championships with Bogut, Knight, Maric, etc.
But I don't think this team will be better than the team that won the U17 Silver 2 years ago mainly because of 2 players that team had: Dante Exum and Ben Simmons, who during the tournament were absolute match winners and dominated. This team may have deeper talent and taller but looking at starting 5's, I would say they are behind in 4 positions (if not all 5)
Mirko Djeric > Tom Wilson
Dante Exum > Jack White
Ben Simmons > Abi Akintola
Jack Purchase < Thon Maker/Harry Froling (assuming Maker doesn't play)
Nick Duncan > Issac Humpries (Humpries is taller, but Duncan was a banger who could shoot the 3 and much better skill set)
Only one spot would go to the younger team and Jack Purchase played the feeder role well setting up Exum, Simmons and Djeric while being a tall shooter on the floor. Also since Tom Wilson got 10 turnovers today in the SEABL game in 20 minutes I am not sure how the PG experiment will work at Worlds (also another indication why Matt Owies needs to be in the team as a back up PG as he is the best with the ball, although not a great shooter).
It's great to see a lot of tall talent in this team and I hope they medal, but if both squads were available I would take the team from 2012.
For what it is worth, if all players were available I would take this team
PG - Tom WIlson / DJ Vasiljvic / Matt Owies
SG - Jack White / Will McDowell-White
SF - Abi Akintola / Kuoat Noi / Kyle Clark
PF - Thon Maker / Harry Froling
C - Issac Humpries / Jock Perry
Deng Gak #13 and to replace Thon Maker in the actual team.
humphries at 212cms and his skill set in the centre position would be far more highly rated
also I would say currently
Mirko Djeric = Tom Wilson
a little to soon to pass judgement on that but wilson potential is there to be a better player..
It's all relative. Yes there are stats, but you can only play who's put in front of you at the time. Extremely difficult to compare generations.
The team of two year's ago achieved a fantastic result. Hopefully this team can perform & do themselves and Australia proud.
Agree it is pointless to compare from a stats point of view - one thing to note is that the team from 2 years ago has one player (Exum) tipped to be a top 5 NBA draft pick in 2014 and a top 5 ranked college entry player (Simmons) next year who they are also predicting to be a high NBA draftee when his time comes. This current U17 group lost the third game and very nearly lost the second game of the World Champs qualifying series to NZ. The NZ national team was then beaten by Vic Metro and Vic Country at the recently completed Nationals.
Agree, Humphries better, at the same age and long term. Also, in case this is lost on some he is a year younger (bottom age in this age group).
Agree with post above Wilson has more to his game than Mirko. I saw them play in an Aus Schools Champ Final two years ago. Mirko was with Lake G & at the AIS, also had Dante V Luxford match-up in the same match. Fantastic game. The year Mirko/Dante/Luxford went to the worlds.
From memory Wilson and Mirko both played nearly the whole game if not the whole game. Wilson shot about 15-20 points, Mirko was like 1 from 20 shots. Just kept shooting long bombs. Couldn't find any other way to score. Wilson was cool beyond his years, maybe that's why he's now at the AIS?
As for Jack White V Dante in the 2 spot, I think you've got White in the wrong spot. White will be a 3 man in this team. Vasiljevic will be the 2 man.
They weren't exactly the same NZ teams. The recent team only had 6 from last November. But they were 6 of the better performers from last November, including Freeman.
So how do you explain the NZ team beating Aus U17 last year, nearly twice?
If Vic Country, NSW Metro & Vic Metro can all beat NZ, then what does that say about Aus losing to them?
For me it says the coaches got it wrong, big time.
Wrong game plan, poor rotations and having the players too scared to take the game on for fear of making a mistake or losing their spot in the Aus team.
For me this is the single biggest obstacle for this team going to the worlds. Having all 12 players being valuable contributors. Who are the best coaches - the ones that get every player playing a level above where they are.
Of course the coaches won't admit they get it wrong, they never are. It's always the players fault. They didn't execute, etc.
Well, for me it is the coaches that are the single biggest hurdle for the players with all the negative stuff.
Don't want to rain on anyone's parade but there are 7 potential Aus U17 players already at the AIS.
The AIS have two or three SEABL games scheduled for when they are meant to be in China?
So, unless the dates change I'd suggest a number, if not all, of the AIS kids won't be going to China.
If all go to China, the AIS will be down to 4 players with Perry out. Can't see that working.
Anon 804, well you explain why Aus lost to NZ last November? What, all the Aus team had shockers except for Vasiljevic.
NZ shouldn't have come anywhere near Aus.
What about David Moyes and Alex Ferguson. Did Alex Ferguson leave David Moyes a terrible squad? I don't think so.
It's called Man Management. Give the players a purpose, a vision, make them feel valued, give them a common cause, mould them into a team.
Something like "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".
I don't disagree it was a poor result.
But too completely put the blame on the coaching staff is wrong.
And you are certainly making coaching sound easier than it is... in my opinion. Not saying what you said is wrong, but somewhat oversimplified.
"As for Jack White V Dante in the 2 spot, I think you've got White in the wrong spot. White will be a 3 man in this team. Vasiljevic will be the 2 man."
maybe, but have a read of the follow article link
"the versatile guard plays virtually every day with any one of several squads to stay sharp." ...... "A different role in each team has seen Jack diversify his game. "It pretty much changes all the time; sometimes I'll be playing guard which is my preferred position but in other teams, especially Traralgon and local, I have to play big because I'm taller than everyone," he said."
Hopefully he plays the 2 spot in this team.
and for all the people saying (in other threads) "he's going to footy" well it says
he has aspirations to play college basketball in the United States after finishing school,
Observing the NZ team that played at Nationals recently and along with the others who made up their qualifying team late last year, I was impressed with them.
I wouldn't say we should have beaten them easily at all, they are a very talented group, they have size, height, great shooting and when they are on a roll they can rack up the score on anyone.
Things going against them we probably can't quite comprehend, it is different over there, the cost to compete and the support network may be undervalued, also they tend to drift off late in games, but they are no easy beats.
Tom Wilson maybe should go to footy after watching the BA CofE game yesterday against dandenong SEABL , wearne who didn't even get another invite back to an Aus camp took him to pieces along with all the other dande guards. Very disappointing seeing what is supposed to be the cream of Australian junior basketball, there are far better players not even getting a look in. I understand they are young guys playing more experienced and bigger bodied players in some cases, but even there game structure is crap. Who ever picked that bunch of boys needed to get out more and see what else is around. And just because a player is really tall it does not mean you can make them into a great player , you only have to look at steph Collins, that girl has had so much pumped into her and she still can't shoot , or run, or rebound or dribble.
Tom Wilson is a great bball player and don't be fooled with his performance yesterday. As the time goes by he will get stronger, which is at this moment his limitation - he recovers very slowly. He had a really good game on Saturday and underperformed on Sunday. Everyone could see that he struggled against a physically stronger side, which frustrated him a lot. Even the unsportsmanlike foul that he got was reflection of it. I guess stopping an open court fast break does qualify as such, but kicking intentionally a 15 year old kid in the back while hanging on the rim is not. Give the kids the credit for fighting it through. They will only get better and especially if all 6 get picked for the worlds, by that time they will play a number of games and get the flow offense going. There were glimpses of it in the past games, it was more inexperience that cost them both games.
Wearne? You must be joking #831, if you said Campbell, fine. There are reasons why Wearne was Tom's substitute for the state team last year, and these were obvious again yesterday to those who know both players and their potential.
Not much information available. Apparently was injured and could not join the NSW country team.
Some info here:
Anyone know why the boys c of e team has no senior players unlike the girls. Obviously placing these teams in the senior competition and also the strongest competition after NBL and wnbl gives them a challenge but surely the beatings these boys are getting can't be good for their own confidence
They have lost by an average losing margin of 13 points per game. This could hardly be described as a beating. They are not far off a win. IMO they are doing quite well - just remember there are many 15 and 16 yo's in this team. To only have an average losing margin of 13 points is not a disaster. It will toughen them up (15 and 16 yo's) ahead of the U17 world Champs. Just remember that they have just come off the week of Nationals in Canberra - they may well be a little flat first week back.
Any senior men who are potential Boomers can earn a living playing the game (so can do it full-time), and are generally well cared for in their professional environment. There are plenty of senior women who are potential Opals but can't play basketball full-time or receive minimal development opportunities within their professional environment. I would imagine that's a good part of the reason for the inclusion of senior women in the CofE program.
Check your facts - Gak is still 15, with Froling turning 16 a week ago. Tom Wilson BTW is still 16. Some Dandenong players yesterday were double their age, leave aside the size difference.
As for women - correct - limited options in Australia. Only those who decide to continue in the college system or play professionally continue their development.
Not sure whether they are still 15 but some were definitely 15 at the commencement of the calender year. I am unsure of their Birthdays, yet despite this hairs do not need to be split- the point is, they are very young and performing at an exception level to be losing by 13pts per game against grown men. Especially with many being paid to play.
To answer Anonymous's Question
The girls CoE team is trying to support the opals team development and management (Brendan Joyce, et al.) have reported/believe there is a gap in the development process where there is not enough opportunity for older teens and late (taller) developers. so they picked a mixture and went into the seabl to support this idea. I think it is a stop gap solution and is flawed as;
I really think they should focus (at least 75%) on the best talents at the right/best age to maximise development which is 14-17 for the girls. The girls CoE should be back in the WNBL. The high performance mgr/team should be tasked with getting the right opportunities for older teens and late (taller) developers in teams that currently exist within the seabl and WNBL.
The guys thankfully are doing the right thing by getting the right level of competition against men back in the seabl which is regular game time to test what they are learning in practice. I don't think they are getting beatings, they are adjusting and they are not far off a win.
also, Deng Gak is 15 for 2 more weeks...
Mrs Wearne we know you are one eyed about fuzzy. But you are making an idiot of yourself comparing him to Tom.
All the best bball scouts rate Tom highly. Fuzzy isn't quite up to the same standard. Take off the rose colored glasses and just let Michael find his own level.
He doesn't need the embarrassment you are creating.
Does anyone know anything about Miles Cherry from NSW? Position etc?
Cherry is bottom age, from Newcastle. Prob 3-4 in this group. Integral part of u/16 champs last year. Long, left handed, good outside touch. Missed this years champs due to illness. If you were there, you would have seen him supporting his team mates.
Dare say there probably aren't any players from ACT, SA or QLD South going. From memory, no names jump out as demanding selection from those states. Have heard there were 17 players supposed to be going to camp but I guess that could vary by 1 or 2.
Sounds fair. Perry may have ruled himself out/been ruled out of contention for Dubai. If that's proven true, you'd expect the squad to be:
NSW Country: Noi, Cranney, Cherry, Glover, Hodgson
VIC Metro: Owies, Akintola, Vasiljevic, Wilson
VIC Country: White, Pupavac, McMullen, Molloy-Leigh
NSW Metro: Humphries, Gak
QLD North: Froling
Official Squad now available at http://www.basketball.net.au/squad-named-first-u17-mens-camp/
Well done to all boys, all players are most deserving!
Abiola Akintola - VICM
Miles Cherry - NSWC
Kyle Clark - TAS
Sean Cranney - NSWC
Harrison Froling - QLDN
Deng Gak - NSWM
Angus Glover - NSWC
Jayden Hodgson - NSWC
Isaac Humphries - NSWM
Trent McMullan - VICC
Timothy Molloy-Leigh - VICC
Kouat Noi - NSWC
Matthew Owies - VICM
Jacob Pupavac - VICM
Dejan Vasiljevic - VICM
Jackson White - VICC
Thomas Wilson - VICM
Prediction: just my thoughts on who may be a lock for the tour to China.
Abiola Akintola - VICM (AIS) - lock for China
Miles Cherry - NSWC
Kyle Clark - TAS (Versatile) - lock for China
Sean Cranney - NSWC
Harrison Froling - QLDN (AIS) - lock for China
Deng Gak - NSWM - (AIS) lock for China
Angus Glover - NSWC
Jayden Hodgson - NSWC - (Proven preformer) - Lock for China
Isaac Humphries - NSWM - (AIS offer) - Lock for China
Trent McMullan - VICC
Timothy Molloy-Leigh - VICC - (Size) - Lock for China
Kouat Noi - NSWC
Matthew Owies - VICM
Jacob Pupavac - VICM
Dejan Vasiljevic - VICM - (AIS) - Lock for China
Jackson White - VICC - (AIS offer) - Lock for China
Thomas Wilson - VICM - (AIS) - Lock for China
Maybe you should blame his coach for a poor tournament in Canberra...
Come watch him play SEABL, a different story - has a great potential, but needs to improve his shooting. I also think he will go to China since the team needs talls and this will be basically one of the last opportunities to create a core of the team for the world's.
Agree about Kuoat being versatile, however against bigger opponents he did get into foul trouble defending in the key.
Maybe says more about the lack of support and him having to carry the load for NSW C at Nationals with such a small team, but he is talented regardless.
Similar to Akintola, so depends where he fits into the team and if another similar type is what is needed or another genuine big I guess?
Anon 246 quite a good list. I think the 10 you've picked will be quite accurate.
IMHO and apart from any injuries or illness Kuoat will definitely go along with either Owies or Cranney.
Given NSW head coach, I would lean towards Cranney instead of Owies.
All these kids can play. Again, it will be personal opinions of the coach/s as to who they think will get the job done and what is the best team mix.
All are deserving. Good luck to all of them.
Kuoat may have got in foul trouble but he won't have to play a 5 in this team.
He'll be a 3-4 depending on the oppostion. How big/small and athletic they are. He's very versatile.
The team may also play two 4's together with no 5 or vice versa. Or a 5 and two 4's, again depending on who they play and what the match-ups are like and how the games play out.
The coach/s will be looking for any advantage they can exploit.
You are missing the point - the coach is NSW.
Why are there only 4 VIC Metro players in the squad when the depth of Vic Metro is so strong.
Vic Metro played Vic Country at the State Basketball Centre in the last week before nationals - get this - Vic Metro won easily without Owies, Akintola, Wilson, Perry and Vasiljevic. Vic Country had their full team and went on to win the bronze at the Nationals just missing the grand final by 1 point.
Vic Metro had some fill in players. The depth in Vic Metro in this U18 group is very strong. If some of the Vic Metro players were in other teams at the Nationals - IMP they would too be in the national U17 squad. Vic Metro non invited players (and a wealth of talent in the VJBL who didn't make the State team) suffer the disadavantage of living in Victoria where the competition is vastly stronger than the rest of the Country in this age group. This is supported by the ECC results, where for this age group - in u16 2012 and U18 2014 - the two Vic Metro teams have not lost a game other than when they played each other.
The selection process is flawed because there are many players in Victoria who don't get the exposure and are not noticed.
Obviously a Victorian parent jealous that their son missed out. Have you not realised that:
(a) If your son was so good, they would have been picked in the State team by a Victorian coach
(b) If your son was so good, they would have made the U17 Australian Squad because it is in the interest of Mark Watkins, whose job is on the line, that he picks the best players available.
(c) Both Assistant Coaches of the U17 team are Victorian
So to claim the existence of some NSW conspiracy working against your child, or any other Victorian, is just plain dumb.
I'd challenge you to name who you think doesn't deserve a spot in the squad and which overlooked Victorian child should take their place.
You are way too emotional - I will not say (and did not say - it was your conclusion) that any of those invited to the u17 National Camp do not deserve it. They are all quality. My point is that there is some serious talent in Victoria that is unexposed purely because of numbers. I won't name players but if you want to find out for youself just get on the Big V website and look through the stats for Youth League and Big V senior Men. If you know what you are looking for - you will easily find answers to you questions.
So typical - I make what IMO is a valid observation and straight away the old "jealous parent" chestnut gets rolled out. Open your mind - Victoria is very strong in this age group. It's only logical that there is other serious talent in Vic that doesn't get exposed. The system needs to change - Why not send 2 teams to the Nationals from the stronger states? Why not have two divisions?
Let's be honest - most games at the Nationals - from a competitive nature - are a waste of time. The nationals (as I keep hearing) are supposed to be a showcase for the best young talent in AUSTRALIA. This is clearly not the case. How can it be when a team like Vic Metro can win all their games - and by an average winning margin of more than 40 points.
This year it was Vic Metro - next year it will be NSW Country or maybe NSW Metro - all I am getting at is that real talent is not being exposed - and after all - isn't that the objective - even above winning?
Ahhh, the old typical Victoria chest-beating. I would say that this was the SHALLOWEST Vic Met team in a long time. Players 8-10 were very ordinary by the usual Vic Met standards - as evidenced by the fact that they hardly played in the final. The starters (plus one of the bench) did all of the heavy lifting. I'd say NSW Country had (marginally) better depth - just not better top end (or a PG not getting the ball to their best guys at least).
If there is such depth - why weren't they selected for Vic Metro in front of these players?
This Vic Met depth - did they even win 14 Clubs in this age group?
521 I assume the players you refer to (8, 9 & 10)for Vic Metro are the players who played the least minutes in the Nationals. Are you aware that they are the only non Melbourne Tigers in a Vic Metro team where the coach is Director of Coaching at Melbourne Tigers and the assistant is the coach of the Melbourne Tigers U18's this year.
They did win 14 clubs and fairly convincingly (Melbourne over Hills). But the top 4 were Vic Met, NSW Met, Vic Ctry and SA Met, which is unusual. Vic Metro did have 6 teams finish in the top 14, and that was the year in which Melbourne 2 took silver at Classic.
It's a silly argument, though. Yes, there are probably 50 more kids in VJBL who would be amongst those selected if you were just picking the 130 best Aussie kids to play a tournament with. But the only Vic kids who might be capable of cracking a junior National team but weren't at Nationals to earn an invite are bottom-age (Panayiotou jumps out), and they'll get their shot come 19 Worlds.
What seems to be getting overlooked here is spot availability, a coach cannot choose every single good pg or big or forward a team needs a combination of positions and ones that work well together, plus offensive and defensive strength. So whilst yes there may be very good players left behind and it sucks if your one of the 5 best pg or bigs in the country in your age group but they only choose 3 , then end choice comes down to the coaches personal preference as to how they see the players fitting into the overall team. Some players who stand out at nationals because the rest of the team is so mediocre may fall against better opposition, but could also rise even further with a more supportive team.
You know what we all have opinions, none of us are right or wrong. You can't pick individual games to evaluate players. This is done over some time. These kids have been watched and evaluated for several years now over several tournamanents, not just National Champs. Nationally it starts at the U14 Club Championships. That was 3 & 4 years ago for this group. I think everyone in the know knows these kids and their game.
No doubt Victoria has a lot of depth compared to other states (NSW would as well) and they could probably put two Vic Metro and two Vic Country teams in the Nationals and do better than most other teams. This is to be expected given the greater populations in those states.
However, to say there are other Vic Metro players capable of making the Australian U17 squad team is fanciful. Other Vic kids could make other State teams, but not the Aus U17 squad.
I will preface the above with - depth is dependent upon the individual age groups. For 3 years NSW Metro were the Champions of the U18's before losing to Vic Metro in a close final in Brisbane (2013). All 4 of these finals were close affairs that could have gone either way. Also, I remember Vic Metro were lucky to win against NSWC & Tas in 2013! For these 4 years NSW Metro & Vic Metro have been the dominant states, but not by that much. Now, I think think this (2014) Vic Metro group is the dominant group. They won easliy two years ago and were not really threatened in Canberra. Last year in the U16 Final it was an all NSW affair, so, fair to say in the age group belwo NSW is the dominant state.
But that is not to say that the other states don't have some quality kids, they do. Unfortunatley for the other states they don't have the population of NSW & Vic and by extension don't have the week in week out quality of competition. That makes it hard for them. So it is a super effort by any of them who make it to Aus camps.
Congratulations to the Vics for having promoted the game and getting a lot of kids playing it.
If you were at the Nationals, watched the games, looked at the stats, then I think there would be very few (MAYBE ONE or two) kids that could be genuinely disappointed they weren't picked in the squad above.
But remember, if they weren't picked who would they dislodge to get in?
IMO the rest are just not in this class, or at least their performances haven't indicated they are. Generally, for their positions most of the kids that got selected were the most dominant performers for their position.
IMO I think coaches have selected a very well balanced squad from the kids that were available.
Also, you know what, despite what we think here it won't change anything. The squad's been picked, the rest is conjecture.
Good luck to the kids in the squad. For whoever finally makes the team for the worlds, fantastic opportunity, you deserve it and do us proud.
Some facts to consider are these.
Vic met did play Vic C in two practice games before Nationals, one win each and both games were close, yes top four for met were missing as they were at AIS.
Vic C were not at their best in game two, but they were practice games after all, so the win was not crucial. Silly to read too much into practice games after all.
Vic met rely a lot on players knowing the shuffle, not so important to be the best player in the state, more important to be able to fit the offence and execute.
A shame we couldn't see both teams play each other for real at Nationals. Vic met's biggest strength is in its continuity and familiarity of its players and their system.
Vic C had strengths in key areas that can hurt a team like their cousins from the city, like how NZ got close in the semi final game, but Vic met and Vic C were very strong finishing teams in that tournament, NZ not so.
The players selected for this camp are the best Vic as a state has to offer, they all deserve their selection. If they could select 20, well then a couple of more from Vic could have made it, but the 17 are among our best no issue there if we are objective and fair considering the process is never going to be perfect.
Let's also not forget that these kids are picked for worlds in a few months, they are the most ready and best prepared kids we have. Yes, in a couple of years another group will emerge, they may be in that younger or less mature body wise right now.
16 - 17 year olds, we can't take the ones that are still growing and changing too much, we need to take the athletes who are physically prepared, wait a few years and others will always come through, but right now we have a great mix of mature bodies and great talent!
They have potential too, but we want to medal in Dubai, not treat it as a development camp.
Ahh nothing like know-it-all parents on here who actually know nothing at all.
Young Myles couldn't play Nationals because he was recovering from the back end of a bout of Glandular Fever and couldn't get medical clearance in time because of an enlarged spleen (a common side effect). I believe he would have been fine to play but the team/family decided not to risk it.
I believe he has trained the last 2 weeks with no concerns and, I think rightfully, has taken his spot at the camp.
Again, if parents on here want to question whether a child should be at the camp or not:
(1) Ascertain all the facts first
(2) Have the balls to say who you think has done a better job and deserves to take the player in question's spot.
I think some on here are missing the point. Posters above rightly think he is good enogh to be at the camp. That's OK. I really don't know as I haven't seen him play.
But he wasn't injured, he was ill. That's the issue. So his supporters above have been deceitful in implying/stating he was injured.
Ok, some of you sound like you're close to the action. Can you tell me if he is actually participating like every other kid at the camp, or is he there but just watching?
If he's not participating, then perhaps he shouldn't have gone? Injuries & illness happen. Players miss out because of it. That's the way it is. Unfortunate, but true.
Obviously people at BA rate him and that is OK. But I don't think as a bottom age he is a Bogut, Mills, Anderson, Dante or a Ben Simmons that would warrant such special treatment. He may end up being a boomer, but right here and now this is not cotia.
All I'm saying is it would appear he is one extremely lucky kid to be there, given the above is true.
Also, I think this speaks volumes for all the other players at Nationals. They weren't in the mix. Tell that to Colton or Stafford or even Lamonato.
He is at the camp training, participating and doing every activity that the other 16 kids are doing. No 'special treatment', no favours.
If, as you admit, you haven't seen him play then how can you possibly make the statement that "he doesn't warrant such special treatment" (even though there is none being given).
I have seen him play a couple of time and I think he and the other 16 all deserve their spot at the camp.
Just checked some Aus & State health websites. GF is contagious and can be for months.
Please tell me the above is not true?
Please tell me BA haven't potentially compromised the preparation of these kids, and more importantly the team by taking ANY sick kids to this camp?
Oh, I forgot jealous, anonymous parents on Hoops.com know more about the health of a 16 year old boy they've never met than the kids Doctor. If he got medical clearance for the camp then he obviously isn't contagious. Why don't we all mind our own business and be happy that the kid has recovered in time. I'm sure he would have been devastated to miss Nationals.
I agree, he's received special consideration. Clearly the information above indicates that. Agree at this point he's not a star, like someone else said so why the special treatment?
Sounds like some of these posters are at the camp as they are sure he's fully participating.
Let's wait and see what the feedback is like from the kids at the camp when they re-join their families, schools, basketball teams, etc.
Anon 715 - Given that I have coached the kid and know the family I can confirm that he is at the camp fully participating. I don't need to be there to know that.
I'd be very interested to know exactly what "special treatment" it is that you allege he has received. Mark Watkins made it quite clear that anyone unable to participate at Nationals (who was in his original 23 man squad) would be judged on past performances, ECC, Country Cup and previous nationals.
So, here's your chance again, what special treatment has the kid received?
The fact that he's even at the camp is the special treatment.
Of course if you're his coach you'd support him. I'd expect nothing less. As I said he may be a future boomer.
However, it's not like he's racked up stats like Kyle Clarke or Harry Froling has at bottom & top age 16, bottom & top age 18.
If this treatment was afforded Clarke, Vasiljevic, Humphries, Wilson, Froling, Akintola then I think this treatment would be tolerated and accepted. They've all proven themselves over several Champs, some even U14 Club.
He doesn't have the same runs on the board as the above players. Not to say he won't in time. But right here and now he doesn't.
All I'm saying is this doesn't look good. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be there. All I'm saying is this doesn't look good & I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On what grounds are you saying that attendance at a camp is special treatment? He was selected fair and square under the rules set out by Watkins for those unable to attend Nationals. If 'Clarke, Vasiljevic, Humphries' etc had been il or injured, they too would have been covered by these rules.
Again, if you think you know better than Mark Watkins you should call him up, make the allegation of favouratism to him and I'm sure he'll be happy to talk it over with you.
But perhaps what is most wrong about your (quite disgusting and unnecessary) commentary is the fact that you are saying that some players are worthy of special treatment whereas others aren't. That is hypocrisy in it's most basic form.
All you've sought to do is tarnish the reputation of a promising young player who deserves a shot after a period of illness (and who is 16 years old for Gods sake), and a few coaches that know a lot more about the game than you probably ever will.
So if you had Cherry in the Champs NSWC would've won is your opinion?
That is a big call. NSWC lost by 15, so he would've been the difference? Where you're going with this sounds like he's far better than Kuoat Noi, who's already represented AU's U17 and who IMO had a fantastic U18 Champs. He really showed he can play at this Champs.
Well it certainly sounds like Cherry should not only be at the camp but he should start for AUS U17's.
I'm sorry, you may be right, but his history so far would not seem to indicate the sort of results to support your supportive attitude to him.
Having been through the Glandular Fever process with my own boys a couple of years ago I feel for any athlete who is affected.
It is something that you must be vigilant about for pretty much the rest of your sporting life, however unless the boys share saliva they are not at risk of contracting it.
I know they are close and a great bunch of kids who get along well, but I would not be worried about others in the team contracting GD at the AIS.
Agree cheap shot re Clarke and Froling.
I admire your support of Cherry, but was Cherry the sole reason NSWC won the U16's last year?
I think the other NSWC parents might beg to differ.
One player doesn't win the Championship. One player has never won any Championship.
It's not Froling or Clarke's fault they live in small populations, so the chances of playing on decent teams is difficult.
Qld Nth improved immensely in these Champs, Tas were great 2 years ago in the U16's and last year in the 18's.
So that is a really cheap shot and we now know who made it, the NSWC coach.
I've said maybe he should be at the camp. All I'll say is his results so far don't support your arguments for his inclusion.
Bear, very well said. Nice to see some common sense on here.
To all the obviously jealous parents that feel the need to waste their time sullying the reputation of a 16 YEAR OLD BOY who has done nothing to deserve the kind of criticism he has ben given on here, i'll draw your attention to the 'Guidelines' section of this website which states (in bold type) 'avoid naming players who are under the age of 18'.
So, not only is this conversation a striking example of just how pathetic some people are, in that they have to anonymously slur minors for some perverse sense of satisfaction and to satiate themselves and their children omitted from squads, it also contravenes the most basic of courtesies that should be afforded to 16 year old boys who are unable to defend themselves on here, who work hard and who have done nothing to warrant this type of criticism.
So true! remember while you type your next post that these boys are working their guts out under the guise of our best national coaches.
Also remember these boys can read, although I would encourage them not to take most things written here very seriously.
I for one can't wait to hear how the team goes in Dubai, no matter who is selected as they are all obviously good enough for consideration.
Unlike some, I'm not a jealous parent. Just an interested observer.
I think the boy's supporters are way too defensive and emotional here.
Some are saying he just doesn't have the results to warrant the special consideration. That's their opinion, that's all. They're not saying that he doesn't deserve to be there. Just under the circumstances, it would appear he's received special consideration and on the arguments/opinions presented here and the Champs Stats that would seem to hold up.
Like all the other kids his results are out there for everyone to see. There's nothing to indicate the special consideration was warranted.
All I take from this is he is seriously being considered to go to the worlds, otherwise he wouldn't be there.
It's not special consideration because the consideration applies to anyone who was injured or ill at Nationals. What part of that can you not understand.
No wonder kids quit the sport, what child should have to put up with this garbage being said about him.
Anon#729 you have a point about kids from small populations also talented kids in less talented teams. Your example suggests an automatic medal to a very talented kid from a smaller team if he fits into a NSW or Vic team at tournaments like nationals.
While this would most likely happen, it is also likely that the kid who dominates court time and possession in his less talented team would have to share the time and points (stats) with his more talented team mates in NSW or Vic.
Not saying for one moment they wouldn't stand out, talent is talent, but the stats they rack up from 38 mins on court and almost every play seeing the all in their hands would be something they would have to adjust to.
Maybe they like it just the way it is?
What 'Champs Stats' are you basing this off?
Cherry didn't play at Nationals this year so the most recent stats you could've used were 2013 U16 Nationals.
7 Rebounds per game
1.3 Assists per game
At what point do someone's stats become good enough to warrant 'special consideration'? They look pretty good to me.
Kids quit the sport because they get little or no court time. They want to play - period, not sit on the bench.
Because Rep, State coaches and more importantly State Associations are all about the win and their own egos.
They should be looking at identifying talent and providing opportunities for all.
Pretty hard to do that when you don't get on the court or only get a few minutes. What does that do for any kid's confidence or self esteem????????
There's your reason why kids give the sport up.
Cherry not in the same class as Clarke and Froling.
The same person has been going on about NSW country since Under 16s and how great they are and if it is the coach of that side get off here and let the boys prove their worth with out your banging on!!!
Wasn't he the captain of the NSW Country u16 side that won Gold last year? And what does it matter if he's at the camp or not? Based on past performances, Mark Watkins says he should be there. If he's not up to the standard of the other 16 players, I'm sure that will be quickly identified and he won't have further opportunities with this group until and unless he demonstrates that they are merited.
And making the case that some who played well at Nationals but were not selected for the camp have been unduly penalised by Cherry's inclusion is absurd. They had their opportunity to demonstrate what they were capable of, and in the evaluation of the coaching staff, those players did not offer something they needed. If Cherry weren't at the camp, it would be a 16-man squad not a 17-man squad. Just as if they felt there were someone else who could compete for a spot in the final team for Worlds, it would be an 18-man squad.
I don't know the kid, I'm not a NSW Country person. But all the jumping up and down screaming about special treatment really comes across as someone with a bone to pick, not an impartial observer by any measure.
Ever stop to think that perhaps those who couldn't attend nationals due to illness or injury , then the head coach may want to have a look at them against those that did. And give the un17 girls a thought, that team was chosen 'before' nationals, there were some standout players from the girls at nationals who won't get the chance. Stop carrying on about a team none of you have any involvement in, coaches choose who they want and no amount of bitching and backstabbing is going to change that.
The comment about "NSW Country with Cherry - wins U18 Nationals" is really delusional. Then they prove even further how little they know about this age group and basketball be asking "have Froling and Clarke won Gold Medals?" Come on you can't be expected to be taken seriously by anybody.
There seems to be all this hype about Country NSW - to the point where you would think that they had won. They lost and never threatened Vic. Metro.
Vic. Metro is clearly the best team in this age group and they won easily, even though they ran the restrictive and suffocating shuffle. If they had picked the best players available - rather than those who were most familiar with the shuffle - and let the players play - they would have won by 30 or more.
5 players from NSW Country - one didn't even play - no logic.
Cherry was fantastic at last years 16s. Lead a very even NSWC attack to a gold medal. To suggest he hasn't earned his spot or performed at he highest level is crazy. My he timing of his illness was unfortunate & he would have made a difference to the NSWC team at this champs (maybe enough to snag good, maybe not, who knows) but I truly believe, based on what I've seen of him at u14 & more recently u16 nationals he's more than worthy of his place.
Well done Mr Cherry, I hope you have a good camp. All the haters can sit here & hate but you're in an Australian squad & rightly so. All the best.
The fighting and accusations on here are pathetic. The bitter parents who are unable to move on from their child's non-selection in teams and express their happiness at other kids' misfortune, celebrating their pain when they are injured/sick to feel vindicated in some sick, petty, and nonsensical way is shameful.
Unless you have been at the camp yourself, you don't know the full story.
If this is the squad then, do we know who was injured and who was sick? This may have had an impact and change before WC.
There is two from NSW country which is a good result (i.e really nothing to complain about)
looking at it, only McMullen wasn't in line for the team in early parts of this thread.
+ Owies & McMullen
I am/would be disappointed there are not 4 real bigs in the team, hopefully perry will be fit for the WC
I was checking the SEABL results for the mens CoE team and found this really interesting result.
Firstly, the team won their first game 92-80 over Brisbane (led by Krebs, cooks & mcviegh, all the older guys).
But that not the really interesting thing in relation to this thread, it was that Brisbane had both Mcdowell-white boys playing in the team at the AIS on saturday night (Will for 9mins and Darryl for 11mins)
What is going on Basketball Australia????
Jayden Hodgson and Tim Molloy-Leigh both ill/injured for duration of the camp so they were apparently ruled ineligible to be selected.
All the more reason it isn't a bad result for NSW Country.
2 bottom aged kids that realistically were probably there for exposure to National Team training etc as big prospects for U19 World Champs in a few years (Glover and Cherry)
1 ruled out with illness who I probably would have picked to go. Unsure whether Watkins would have picked him if he was fit (Hodgson)
and 2 who were selected (Cranney and Noi)
wilson is not a 3 (he is playing 1 & 2 at CoE) and Akintola (in transition to 3) is to short for the 4 internationally.
when it comes to international games (particularly against quality euro teams) we will have to play taller in each position than at the nationals just remember what guy molloy learnt at the first U17 WC in 2010. go with talented size and use it...
Re the White Boys , remember they opted out of the QLD NPP , which is run alongside the BA Program and walked out on the QLD State team.
Think that their hopes for national selection would have finished right there. I think that Daryl would have struggled to get into the last squad anyways.
From what I have heard they are both looking at going to College in 2015 and 2016.
I'm a parent, but not a jealous one. I wish the team the best, and we went there knowing our team wouldn't do too well. I watched a lot through the comp and tho I'm not an expert, agree with those saying the coaching was too restrictive in some teams and could have cost some players a serious look at selection. Do these coaches know their players?
Agree with the NZ team, although I didn't see them vs Aus, and saw a huge difference with teams who just played, and weren't to bogged down with offense.NZ and NSWM come to mind. Didn't see enough of Gak to see how good he apparently is. Why is he coming off the bench and a guard (who killed us in a tournament last year as a guard) playing inside? Not knocking the kid he still played great, but know your players and play them where they are best! If Gak is Oz standard, can they just let him sit on the bench?
Haven't see a lot of the NSWC players, but I was a bit surprised to see 5 players there. I think that is because they were all allowed to just play- a coach who understands to let his players play. Then players look a lot better on a better team.
Thought there were lots of good players there, and you could easily have picked about 30 players who all deserved a look. Some with a lot of skill, some with a bit more hype.
Hope the team does well
Agree with above in that Gak's talent is undeniable - a genuine big man with a big future no doubt. Still can't see how he warrants selection at this level though, he is yet to prove himself against good opposition. This year was his first nationals I believe and I don't think he did anything spectacular, mind you with some poor service from the guards on the team.
Haven't seen him play in SEABL. His stats suggest he is doing ok, but aside from his blocking ability, I kinda expected more from such a kid with his height.
In saying that, he it's not his fault he is selected and i'm sure Watkins et al see more in him than I do. All the best to the lad and all the boys.
Gak's a project player. He has a big big future.
That's why he's been talent identified and is at BA's COE. They're hopefully going to fast track his development.
Aside from that who else do you pick for a centre?
Perry's out injured and Molloy-Leigh was injured just prior to going to the camp. I'd suggest if either was available, Gak would still go and one of the guards would drop out. There's no-one else that is 6'-10"/6'-11" plus to pick. It's the old story, you can't teach height!
This will be the tallest Australian team to go to the U17 worlds. Previous Australian teams only had centres/forwards that were 6-7" to 6-9", maybe.
the last team (21012) had Darcy Malone 213cm, as well as good versatile talented height in each position. 7 guys over 6'8
4 Nicholas DUNCAN SF 203cm 6'8" 13/03/1995
5 Mirko DJERIC PG 188cm 6'2" 17/04/1995
6 Fabijan KRSLOVIC C 204cm 6'8" 23/06/1995
7 Darcy MALONE C 213cm 7'0" 02/01/1995
8 Gerard MARTIN SG 190cm 6'3" 18/09/1995
9 Benjamin SIMMONS PF 203cm 6'8" 20/07/1996
10 Joshua DERKSEN SF 202cm 6'8" 15/02/1995
11 Dante EXUM SG 193cm 6'4" 13/07/1995
12 Matt JACKSON PF 203cm 6'8" 17/05/1995
13 Michael LUXFORD PG 177cm 5'10" 23/02/1995
14 Jack PURCHASE PF 203cm 6'8" 26/06/1995
15 Felix KALAU VON HOFE SF 195cm 6'5"
I was trying to point out there is some serious height in this group.
202cm is closer to 6'7-1/2". 6'8" is a little over 203cm.
Let's hope Jock Perry recovers in time and is able to be selected. I hear Tim Molloy-Leigh may have been picked to go to China had he not been injured.
So both are, in theory, still legitimate chances to go to the worlds.
From the U18 Nationals program:
Molloy Leigh 211cm
If this line up goes to the worlds. I think my statement above will prove to be correct.
Team for China as per BA website. On the whole, mostly good selections but some of the players IMO can count themselves really lucky.
Abiola Akintola VICM/CoE
Kyle Clark TAS
Sean Cranney NSWC
Harrison Froling QLDN/CoE
Deng Gak NSWM/CoE
Isaac Humphries NSWM/CoE
Trent McMullan VICC
Kouat Noi NSWC
Matthew Owies VICM
Dejan Vasiljevic VICM/CoE
Jackson White VICC
Thomas Wilson VICM/CoE
They're all lucky to be going.
However, all the kids that went to the recent camp (bar one for obvious reasons) all had solid tournaments for their position, so all were deserving of a spot in the team of 12 to China.
Again, it gets back to team balance & the choice of the coaches.
Doesn't mean the coaches are right & your wrong. It's just the way it is.
Good luck to all who got picked.
Unfair to name specific kids who I consider lucky but I think the 5 boys that missed the final 12 can all count themselves unlucky (some more than others of course).
Some boys in the 12 have serious skill deficiencies that will be more than exposed at international levels because they aren't picked on their record. In saying that, I wish them all the best in representing our country. Let's hope they can bring home a medal.
I think your assertions are quite unfair.
Of the 5 who missed I can only think of one who missed the 12 for China that had superior stats to any similar player/s. However, he was apparently sick and couldn't participate in the camp. Also, would it be wise to take him, given he's sick a week before they go?
Also Big Tim will be missed as I think they need another big. But he was injured and couldn't participate.
Remember, this is not the Worlds team. I'm sure Injuries and Illness will come to play again.
WOW! Half the kids? Not sure what Stats you've been looking at? What other genuine 5 man, by world standards, did better than Gak? There's only one you could pick Molloy-Leigh, he's injured, so that's why he's not in the team. Perry, he's out injured. so there are no other genuine 5 men to pick.
Who replaces Gak? Given the position he plays and his height 6'11" only Perry and Molloy-Leigh are direct replacements. Both are out injured. We need Gak's height on this team. That is not negotiable. As far as size is concerned, any other big's are only 4 men at best.
Most of these kids have been watched for several years now including any who have played in U14 Aus Club Champs, previous U16 Champs, ECC, Country Cup, Aus Schools Champs, etc. The recent U18 Nationals are just another tournament where these kids are observed again. QLD, WA & NT are the only states disadvantaged here as they don't attend either ECC or Country Cup.
My observation would have 10 of those picked for China in the top 15 point scorers for the tournament.
Therefore there's only 4 kids that may be disappopinted they didn't go to the camp, as the 5th is from NZ. Now which one of those should be in the team & who do you remove for them? Gak is outside the top 15 point scorers, but we need his height.
Quite obviously you can't pick a team of bigs, or a team of guards or a a team of point guards. They have to pick a balanced team filling all positions.
Someone else said above that you might be in the best 5 players for your position, but there's probably only 2 or 3 spots for your position in the team, that's the unfortunate part.
I said that re positions available. The other thing that so many overlook is whilst scoring is important in the game of basketball, you still need defenders, ball carriers and your play makers, these are often not the big scorers, stats don't show these, you could have a player that has the ability to take another top scorer out of the game simply by playing great d, these players are just as valuable as the ones who shoot the buckets. Every team needs a balance.
Being able to play good D, again for each position, is the first step. Quite hard for a pg to defend a 5 on the low block. So you're suggesting 6 of the 12 can't play good D? Are you serious?
Agree you need to stop teams scoring, but at the end of the day it's about out scoring the opposition. No good having 1 or 2 on the floor who can't score. They're a burden to the team. If that is the case it makes it easier for the opposition coach who only has to shut down 2 or 3 players.
I don't think defensive skills is overlooked by Watkins and his co-coaches. Do you really think they would?
There's ball carriers in the team, there's play makers as well and all but maybe one scored heavily in the U18's Champs. However he is a super defender (ask anyone who has played against him) and great at getting the ball up the court. He also was the 2nd highest for ave assists in the U18 Nationals (a play maker).
Two others in the team of 12 for China are the 9th & 13th highest scorers for Australian players whilst also being the 6th & 4th for Ave Assists. No-one who scored more heavily has more assists than either of them or vice versa.
Unfortunately I don't agree with your post and the Stats don't support your opinion unless IMO opinion you are talking about Hodgson. But he was sick at the camp. So couldn't be picked. For me it was line ball between him and Owies. That stats would indicate that Hodgson scores more, but Owies is better at distributing the ball (assists).
If you look at the combination of scoring and assists for the guards, there is no-one that is better than those guards in the team.
The bigs are a different proposition. But the team needs height. They score, block, get boards.
But to suggest half the team shouldn't be there, I just don't agree. Sorry.
the kid from the ACT is an example of not being able to play D - stats heavy and not even considered in the squad because he could not guard anything...and did not want to...
I think the coaches know what they are doing choosing this squad...good luck to them
Well done boys
There wasn't a lot of good D being played at the U18 Champs because of the way the Ref's were Reffing the games. If you played good D then you got called for fouling. Many players were in foul trouble early.
Most teams played a lot of Zone D because of this.
NSWC deserved their win against VICC in the SF, but VICC struggled early as both White & McMullan got in Foul trouble before 1/2 time.
Noi got in Foul trouble against VICM in the prelim rounds.
Were any of these bad D or just not adjusting to how the games were being Ref'd. If someone beat you, then better to let them go by than draw the foul I would've thought. Easy to say in hindsight, I guess.
I look forward to seeing the final team being picked and to watching them play in Dubai, just as we were able to watch the Girls in Czech this past week, however there won't be more than maybe one change from the China team I wouldn't think.
I hope the boys can get over their early games without a loss and fin a first up final though, that was what hurt the girls.
I agree that the team really does need to have size and if they do then that might be a winning factor in a particualr game. So will shooting percentages, turnovers and defence at certain stages!
Winning games will come down to many things at this international level, every aspect of basketball will come into play but if we are going to medal we need that special thing to get us over the line in crucial games.
I think the team, potentially, will have all they need to provide the spark or special moments they need to do well, it will come down to how quickly they can settle into the groove and if they can be as confident in themselves and one another earlier and for longer periods than their opposition IMHO...
Go Aussies, good luck to them!
The kid from ACT played D but was not supported by a very weak ACT team of mostly bottom agers and a poor coach. He averaged half a game and still got more 3s than anyone for years in U/18 comps at 41%. 2nd highest scorer in the comp too. Should have been at camp
^ Gak is an AIS athlete.. I'm sure Hunter wouldn't have made the team over him. Lulka made the squad over him too so it wasn't luck - he just wasn't good enough.
Hunter was never in contention for a spot on the AUS team. Was never even in contention for the NSW team.
I've seen both play for a few years now. I wouldn't call Hunter 'unguardable', and I don't want it to seem like I'm hating - because that's not my intention - but he definitely shouldn't have been named Finals MVP. Kieran Hayward was a lot more consistent throughout the season and had a better finals against Hills.
In regards to Gak and Hunter, both are similar players - both big, long, athletic. I guess the AIS, and the state coaches, saw more potential in Gak, which is reasonable.
They do not have tryouts, never have, what they have is a list of players they are watching all the time, and by the time they hit un19s most are well locked in to that list then the coach picks from that. So those in the NITP program, anyone who has been at nationals and performed well, anyone who's already made an Aus camp previously and anyone who's made an un17 worlds team has a chance of selection.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:51 pm, Wed 8 Apr 2020 | Posts: 830,169 | Last 7 days: 511