Pacers over Bronco's big win, wouldn't surprise me if the Bronco's hadn't touched a ball since before Easter either, they looked rusty as hell.

This is boring, if the stingrays are wining this it is so below everything else

^Anon if basketball bores you why don't you go and support netball? Come back when you grow a pair!

I have come back now I have grown a pair, and I see that it has bored everyone.

My question is how can a small association like Corio Bay be dominating these especially large ones. The competition must be soft.

Weren't Corio Bay meant to be cellar dwellers and out of the league in a year or so?

Corio Bay is a satellite association in the back blocks, not the largest or most wealthiest. There two imports have never played anything except Div 2 College.

^Above comments are quite comical and uneducated to say the least. No one would be talking about CB if they entered Big V Champs and didn't make finals, let alone the fact that they are leading the competition.

Facts differ somewhat from the posts above and although I stand corrected, I believe these need to be considered.

1. CB is a growing Association in the second largest city in the State of Victoria, not quite the back blocks.

2. They have secured competent and well qualified head coaches to support the already high level coaching which is slowly building their junior and senior representative capacity.

3. They are a very young Association, they have over the years had to restructure and rebuild their system and whole basketball program on and off the court, they are starting to reap the rewards of this financially as well as through on court success.

4. They have been smart in their choices and directed what funds they have into very good imports that they have successfully complimented with their own players and those who have come over from next door (Geelong's program).

There is more to their story, however I will not go into it, just wanted to present some facts to the argument so those reading don't think trolls and inappropriate posters should be believed.

As I said, this is a BigV thread not just a CB thread, however they are now a big part of the BigV, through success and rightly so will be spoken about.

Some of the big Melbourne Based Associations could take a leaf out of the books of the up and commers perhaps?

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE 'COME OVER' FROM THE GEELONG CAMP SIMPLY RETURNED TO THE PLACE THEY STARTED THEIR BASKETBALL AND AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NOT THE LEVEL OF STATE LEAGUE OPPORTUNITIES.

^Anon#614 why you shouting man?

Hutchison started playing basketball at LBII. As with most talented players they left to play a higher grade at GABA at the time. Reardon has always played at both, and worked for sometime at LBII during his SEABL days.

I think he is 38 or 39 when working and at home. Bit younger on the court and much younger out.

Hutch was a late started to senior rep basketball. A great local player that sat behind some talent (some not as talented) in his first years in CVIBL/VBL. Found his role increased when he was around 24/25.

Not a rep junior, taught himself how to play mostly and is a true self made player. Played in every comp he could get a game in around Geelong in his 20's. Hungry guy, tough guy who did his apprenticeship a bit too long than he should have had to but stuck fat with the Geelong region. Will be an excellent head coach down the track also - great communicator, charismatic and smart hoops IQ.

Stingrays are building basketball in Geelong. They run the 'Stingrays Schools & Community Program' and have visited 40 schools already this season. Imports are praised for their on court but they are amazing off the court in the geelong region. Basketball is the winner.

For the "woofing without doing anything - size" ratios tough Corio Bay is leading the country!

A new stadium is not needed, additional courts on existing sites is all that is needed. Too many people come back from Bendigo and drool over their stadium that is never full during the week and looks great at tournaments. Better use of existing courts is all that is needed (fixture better) and a few additional courts on the existing stadiums.
Netball will get a bright shinny new stadium before basketball in the geelong region and they deserve it too.

Yup, so basketball and netball deserve a new stadium, what is wrong with building one that caters for both?

The speed the Stingrays are growing, they might have to start playing games at the Arena in the not to distant future.

Basketball Geelong would never allow it

The arena is a city facility, its got nothing to do with 'Basketball North Geelong' ...they are simply another tenant.

Basketball Victoria are the kings of 'recommendations' but champions of nothing. They have a long history of failing to assist the growth of basketball in geelong region. The 3 associations have grown the game without BV involvement or assistance.

Corio Bay achilles heel is their bench. I went and watched them play Whittlesea. Corio got up by 20, put their bench on and crumbled. Whittlesea were unlucky their last 3 by Petridis did not drop as it rimmed out. They have no depth. If they get injuries or players in foul trouble again in a playoff series they will not defend their title.

Happy Days, at the risk of getting all the officiating people off side, there is as much defense as the refereeing will allow.

The teams are restricted by the poor standard of calls. It seems the refs choose the easy call by calling blocks and suspect pics as opposed to rewarding good D.

I think all teams are frustrated by the soft calls in D.

#473016

Well having watched a lot of SEABL and BigV in the past god know how long and this season in particular given the combined league directives let me share a few of my observations of the difference between how your statement sits with both leagues.

1) The Same official officiate both leagues.

2) For some reason BigV Champ teams have struggled to adjust far more than the SEABL Teams have.

3) The BigV teams seem far more interested in complaining and misbehaving than their SEABL counterparts.

So my assessment is you can argue and complain but the more professional better drilled teams just adjust and seem to get on with it.

Dumb teams fight it and end up with issues.

In general from many years of watching the BigV teams seem more undisciplined in most areas.

That's my take.

Firstly, that sounds like an opinion rather than a well observed study. Just another detractor from BigV to SEABL.
Secondly some of these referees have never called games at this level before, nor can they keep up with the game. Not knew but very common, and that is why some of the best credentialed players are fouling out regularly. And that is why it is all offence!

Yet SEABL seems to be different?

Same Refs ref both leagues except there are 3 of them on SEABL and only 2 on BigV so if anything SEABL is called tighter.
You can't blame the refs for the issues in BigV though, they are the same ones doing SEABL.
The defence is more clean at SEABL level, it's a skill thing, this is why the BigV teams are struggling, it's simply a difference in skill between the different leagues.

Having said that you have to adjust or risk fouling out.

Anonymous X 2 you are absolutely spot on.

I see this time and time and time again.

The SEABL teams seem to be able to accept things better and move on, build rapport and act more professionally.
I hear all the time about multiple Techs in BigV games but they are rare at SEABL level. Same Refs, so what's the difference?

The Coaches ans Players and their behavior...

If you want a first hand explanation of the difference between officiating a SEABL Game and BigV game from purely a game management perspective, (not standard of competition) just go ask a panel 1 or 2 ref for their thoughts.

There will be zero doubt about their feelings on the massive difference and contrasting levels of respect and behavior.

You guys are taking this off track. The point Happy Days raised was the amount of Offense as opposed to Defense. The rebuttal was that the referees are not letting them play. Don't take this as a lack of standard. There are plenty of players good enough to play SEABL if they elected too. For example look at Bulleen. They have a large number of players good enough in their own right to play SEABL. Here is a recent stat from their game against Waverley.
BULLEEN
PLAYER PFS
S. Pomasan 5
T. Varmall 4
M. Whitehead 2
S. Cuffe 4
N. Masunda 0
K. Beston 4
J. Todd 4
L. Norton 5

After speaking with some of the players they said they were not allowed to play. They called everything as if it was VJBL and not a senior men’s game.

@ #473097

But it is about the skill level and behavior, the rebuttal is flawed because the same officials ref both leagues yet SEABL has a different outcome.

The inference was it's a shootout because players find it too hard to play defense without fouling, my observation is players play crappy defense, either don't learn from it or aren't taught correctly and keep fouling.

So the high scores come from either 1) excessive free throws or 2) lame defense to avoid fouling.

Looking at you Bulleen to SEABL example:

S. Pomasan - NOPE
T. Varmall - NOPE
M. Whitehead - Did but NOW PAST IT.
S. Cuffe - NOPE Too small/old.
N. Masunda - NOPE
K. Beston - ZERO impact when he had his chance.
J. Todd - FAILED at Brisbane and Knox.
L. Norton - Possible.

Happy Days i agree.

The BigV Champ team that can adjust the best, drill CORRECT defensive actions relentlessly, and not accept poor execution and effort, build rapport with the officials AND be the best conditioned team will win it.

The Teams that are in denial and indignant of the way the game is officiated will continue to find themselves in constant conflict with the officials.
The SEABL Teams are better conditioned due to their extra workload both at training and constant double header weekends.

You are generalising and not seeing enough of these games.
Where the players are too old, this does not mean they are not smart and crafty.
The facts are that good D should be rewarded, and refs are in many cases taking the easy way out by calling blocks and illegal picks.

#473102

"The facts are that good D should be rewarded, and refs are in many cases taking the easy way out by calling blocks and illegal picks."

Agree, good D should and in most cases is rewarded.
The fact you're focusing on it as a complaint and thinking about it in a negative way means you're already distracted from the game plan..

THIS is exactly what i'm talking about!!!!
You can accept it and move on and altering how you screen to leave no doubt..

OR.. allowing it to simmer in the back of your mind and distract how you play.

Nobody said the Refs are perfect or right all the time, that will never be the case, the difference is how you react to it.

I have watched many BigV games this season and flopping is rampart. The refs and rewarding flopping more so than last year.

TW, good points too.

I also think the tighter calling of the game has done a number of things.

1) Its made it harder for slower less athletic guards to defend quicker more athletic players because they can no longer scrap, hold, block or physically steer them, this has opened up the game some what.

2) Its made it harder for under sized, slower or less skilled big's to bump cutters, set illegal defensive blocks or scrag in the post, again, allowing the bigger more athletic skillful players to use their ability more freely.

It's forced the better coaches to rethink their defensive strategy's and change training drills and patterns, it may also at the higher levels made some players look out of their depth.

All in all i think it's been a good thing for the game but the by product is the negativity from players and teams no longer able to play in the gray area (or outside) of the rules and get away with it.

Yep, Norton could play as a decent bench player at SEABL level.

On the differences anyone remember Alex Bogart King? The dominant 4 man at BigV level? He's a bench player and putting up modest numbers in the weakest SEABL team this year, that shows the difference.

HD, yes far too many Officials are doing double header games on the same night, something like 25 did it last weekend, there is a massive issue attracting and keeping officials in the game.

While officials doing too many games is something that should be addressed, there are those who are happy to double up and get the extra cash too.

It's always the misguided that speak the most.

In regards to the level, don't let the SEABL past convince you it is that level now - it's not and hasn't been for years.

Many Many players & coaches choose to play SC because:

a) Money is as good if not more at SC level than SEABL

b) They (like many seable guys) don't want to burn their entire weekends with travel all over the state for the same level of basketball

c) More family friendly environments at SC.

Don't kid yourselves guys.

And on the refs,
whenever there is a Top 4 vs Top 4 SC game, the same refs who ref SEABL officiate those games. This is accurate and they are well officiated.

When it is not a key match up game, the refs are inexperienced, unknown, have limited game awareness and have developing communication skills. They look to be nervous and untrained to the level by the ref boss'. They should be better supported because the result poor. Compare all you like, but if SEABL teams received the Big V D1/D2 level refs you would quickly find their conduct, behavior and attitudes to be a point of discussion also.

The top panel refs: (WNBL/NBL) get paid more to ref BigV than SEABL

#473125
Bwahahaha! you're kidding yourself mate, no chance in hell SCM/W is the same Std as SEABL, to even suggest it destroys your credibility.

Annonymous X 2 "Cuffe is a strong player but has found his level. Similar to a Petridis at Whittlesea. These players go no further for a variety of reasons (but generally it's between the ears). Egan from Ringwood is another in that basket."

I'm pretty sure Cuffe is a Physiotherapist or something along those lines, so when you question someone's ability "between the ears", you really ought to be sure about it.

"Generally" you shouldn't generalise buddy. It makes you look like you have issues "between the ears"

And how the F did this thread turn into a debate about referees? There is one poster who is obviously a referee trying to defend referees in general.
Suggestions that BigV players are stupid and SEABL players are not is a fundamentally flawed statement.
Since when is it a referee's job to decide who plays better defence??? A referee should not have an opinion on a team's skill level. They should CALL THE GAME AS THEY SEE IT!!! How freakin difficult is that?
Basketball at all levels in this country has been broken by poor refereeing and imho we are witnessing its death.

Top 4 SCM vs Top 4 SEABL (at season end)= no difference.

Bottom 4 SCM vs Bottom 4 SEABL = HUGE difference.

The cream is the same, the bottom lacks depth.

^^^ Absolute Rubbish.

Explain how the hell any Big V team would cope with say Nunawading or MtGambier???????

Go check their rosters, both have NBL std starting 5's.

Both would sweep Corio or Ringwood by 30+

Agree HO, id back Albury or Canberra against either Corio or Ringwood.

But we're getting off the track, anyone knows the standards are very different, that's not the topic.

AX2, I think you'll find the ABK reference was a paraphrase of those who talked his stocks up, certainly didn't read like anons opinion.

BigV ABK: 16 and 6
SEABL ABK: 9 and 6

Almost a 50% reduction in points production going up to SEABL.

Big V v SEABL?

Former SEABL import, Jamal Brown had 42points 14 rebounds against the 2nd best team in the league. Enough said.

Dominant or dormant?

No ones bagging ABK, his situation was simply used to illustrate the difference in standards.

People talked him up last year, that's where the reference to superlatives came from.

If he gets back to putting up his BigV numbers he will have had to work hard to develop and improve his game, which i'm sure he will.

Saying SEABL is better than the other state leagues is ridiculous. It's like saying the VFL is better than the SANFL just because it was at one stage.

Too many blind-pride SEABL backers on here that miss the real standards.

^^ Weed smoker.

Fine.

Let's look at it like this. You pick any current Big V team to coach against Nunawading or Mt Gambier in a 7 games series. Good luck with that.

Nunawadings Bench would win BigV, and i'm being serious, go look at their list.

If SEABL is so good, why won't the Geelong pussycats play Stingrays in a practice match?

The fear of losing and showing that the top 4 teams in Big V are on par with SEABL.

They are not on par lets not get silly but if you put seabl imports with those top four teams not far off and corio would beat canberra jackson and joyce please

Last season stingrays played ballarat in a practice match and were by 20+ at half time. Used the bench the rest of the game and won comfortably.

Wow, practice matches?? Really??

How about we objectively look at the rosters.
BigV teams are too small to compete with the plethora of 6'9" to 7' tall 4's and 5's in SEABL.

Objectively, well I prefer to consider facts and there is no way that SEABL Ballarat side would beat the Stingrays side with one import.
This is not say the Stingrays would win against the better sides, however they would be competitive.

That ballarat side was also missing shaun Bruce and Lucas walker from the side.. So u can keep the thrashing of ballarat in a practice game as a memory because that's all it is.. Doesn't mean anything.. ballarat seabl would thrash corio.. Last years team or this years.. Big v champ is the most overrated competition shows when div 1 sides are coming in and being competitive

Ok, so Corio Bay is your team of choice v Nunawading?

scooter v McDonald
Rebula v O'Hea
Reardon v creek
Johnson v Greer
Hicks v conn

Osborne (L) v Shepard
Hutchison v Steel
Headlam v Cameron

Mercy rule will be used by half Time...

Dear god that would be a massacre, Hicks would have struggled to get mins if he stayed in that team 3rd in line behind Conn/Cameron, and now Steel.

SEABL is such a strong competition that a bunch of 18 yr old kids beat teams.

That means the 18 yr olds would go undefeated in Big V.

The Suns gave it a shake today, got off to a great start against the Stingrays, but after that their shooting dropped off and the Rays held a solid lead to stamp their authority coming into the final.

There was a very decent size crowd in Geelong to watch the Rays and Suns game, many highlights on offer too, great spectacle well done to both teams.

Wasn't there, but from the box score it appears the Falcons also got off to a flyer until the Hawks settled down and started to drive home their advantage. The final series should be another cracker between the Stingers and the Hawks, may go down to the wire.