SF6
Years ago

VC Clubs

Now that the VC competition has been split, here is the breakdown of the number of teams each association has in VC.

Melbourne 8
Bulleen 7
Dandenong 7
Knox 7
Eltham 5
Nunawading 5
Sandringham 5
Diamond Valley 4
Hawthorn 4
Werribee 4
Altona 3
Keilor 3
Waverley 3
Bendigo 2
McKinnon 2
Geelong 2
Ballarat 1
Blackburn 1
Broadmeadows 1
Frankston 1
Kilsyth 1
Latrobe 1
South Pen 1
Warragul 1
Warrandyte 1

Topic #34640 | Report this topic


Happy Days  
Years ago

Well done to Warragul as it doesnt even have a Big V team.

Reply #478268 | Report this post


SF6  
Years ago

There will be a few disappointed clubs down the bottom of the list.

Reply #478270 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Kilsyth and Frankston stand out here as underperforming. Melbourne at top doesn't surprise - this is basically their reason for being.

Reply #478275 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not having a crack at them , but Diamond Valley would also be disappointed as even though some decent results in the classic, all teams except 14 & 16 boys were expected to make it.

Hopefully good results will follow any development that is going on there.

Reply #478290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What is the breakdown for VC Reserve? Yes there are some considered to be underperforming but there could be reasons for this. Bottom age kids in talented teams sometimes end up in VC reserve to be developed for the next season for example.

Reply #478303 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

Demonstrates the depth of basketball talent across Melbourne & Regional Victoria

Reply #478327 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

VP,

How do you figure? There was always going to be that many teams.

Reply #478332 | Report this post


tippa  
Years ago

Warragul should have a Big V program. Some good stuff happening there.

Reply #478333 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

It demonstrates the depth of junior talent and capacity to recruit as much as the overall size and level of coaching structure within an Association.

Reply #478339 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

When you consider there are only 10 places available in each VC Division x 8 groups for which there are 52 Associations entered into the VJBL competition we have ended up with 25 Clubs represented which is almost 50%.

There are really only 4 Clubs dominating the mix while the spread across all the other associations represented is relatively evenly balanced.

Similarly it was the case with 2013 VC Grand Finals representation

http://www.hoops.com.au/forum/32634-vjbl-vc-grand-finals/#p437209

Reply #478372 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

VP,

I think differently, I think it shows the concentration of talent in Eastern and North Eastern Melbourne. Something like 41 teams come from that subset, and if two of the bigs had performed to their size, it would be even more dominant.

Of course, some of that talent might be kids from other associations playing at Melbourne East associations. Dandenong has in the past had a sprinkling of girls in their teams from the Gippsland area.

The West of Melbourne does really poorly by comparison to the East.

And it looks like a bit of the talent is not playing VJBL - Warrnambool for example did well at Classic.

Reply #478384 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

HO,

The Eastern & North Eastern Melbourne region is represented by 38 teams from 10 Clubs in VC - Bulleen, Knox, Eltham, Nunawading, Diamond Valley, Hawthorn, Waverley, Blackburn, Kilsyth, Warrandyte.

The South Eastern Melbourne region is represented by 15 teams in VC from 4 Clubs - Dandenong, Sandringham, McKinnon, Frankston.

The North & Western Melbourne region are represented by 11 teams in VC from just 4 Clubs - Werribee, Altona, Keilor, Broadmeadows.

Melbourne which I would classify as Central Region being based at MSAC has the 8 teams in VC.

While the Vic Country Regional Clubs are represented by 8 teams in VC from 6 Clubs - Bendigo, Geelong, Ballarat, Latrobe, South Pen, Warragul.

Yes you are correct the North Eastern & Eastern region does provide the majority of teams therefore the depth is the greatest but it does have the greatest concentration of Clubs for the region however the North West region doesn't do as bad as you make out for the number of Clubs in the region.

You will probably also find the Melbourne Club has a significant number of players from the North West region.

Just glad we don't have to travel to Warrnambool on a Friday night.

Reply #478425 | Report this post


Ashke  
Years ago

Dont be so sure about the Warrnambool trip VP.......

Reply #478428 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Surprised not to see Sunbury in VC, they have put a lot of $$$ into their venue and have a quality stadium with plenty of courts now. Perhaps it will take time to develop their program again?

Kilsyth and Broadmeadows I would consider may feel like they should have at least 2-4 teams in VC, probably would be considered underachieving this year.

Not as easy for the country based Associations, lower numbers and distance from Melbourne always a factor.

Maffra not there this year, they struggle for numbers in the region at times, however have been there in the past.

Ballarat would normally have more than 1, Geelong certainly more than 2 and Bendigo is about par, but Warrnambool has a good program so distance is obviously holding them back again I would think.

When you look at some of the development, size of the Association, potential for growth and infrastructure recently put in place or about to be constructed: Werribee, Altona and Knox should be standouts in coming years...

If the migration of Sudanese continues to be fostered in areas like Melton, they could be a smokey Association in VC too!

Reply #478446 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

The spread for the VC Reserve Clubs is even greater with 31 represented - you can do the breakdown by region yourself but it still demonstrates the depth of basketball talent right across Melbourne.

Kilsyth 7
Frankston 6
Eltham 5
Hawthorn 5
Dandenong 4
Diamond Valley 4
Geelong 4
Keilor 4
Nunawading 4
Werribee 4
Camberwell 3
Whittlesea 3
Altona 2
Bellarine 2
Blackburn 2
Knox 2
McKinnon 2
Sandringham 2
Sunbury 2
Warrandyte 2
Bendigo
Ballarat
Broadmeadows
Bulleen
Casey
Coburg
Latrobe
Maffra
Melbourne
Mornington
Waverley

You can see that all the Frankston & Kilsyth teams have ended up in VC Reserve.

I also note Melbourne are down on having second teams playing in VC or VC Reserve.

Reply #478560 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Sorry VP, all this demonstrates is that the VJBL have too many teams in their top divisions (VC and reserves).

If you want to show us talent, you probably need to analyse which clubs fill the top eight positions in champ only.

Reply #478573 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Talent or talented teams HO?

Reply #478597 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

If we regard the best 10 teams who make VC as talented and if you only had 12-14 Clubs making up the numbers in VC across all age groups then you could argue the pool of talent is narrow.

But by the fact you have 25 Clubs making up the numbers in VC which is limited to just 10 teams then you would have to argue the talent is widespread.

It was also interesting to note that there was only 2 Clubs who had second teams in VC - if there had of been a larger number of Clubs second teams making VC then I would agree the talent pool across clubs is narrow.

Its regardless of the number of teams or clubs entered in VJBL, the two grading phases followed by the first 9 rounds of VC ensure we get the best 10 teams playing for the Championship.

Reply #478601 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Good question Bear, its VP's theory, not mine.

But 31 clubs in VC Reserve does not demonstrate depth of talent. It demonstrates the comp is too big to start with, because if you are 19th, you are verging on average, particularly in the older age groups.

I would be interested at end of season to see where the dominant clubs (numbers) are in terms of ladder position in champ. If Dandenong end up with 5 teams out of seven in top four, and Knox and Melbourne similar, it says a great deal about where talent isn't.

And within each comp, you need to analyse results to work out how much depth in talent there is. If 9th and 10th in VC are going for/against at say 80%, then they are pretty average.

You know me well enough Bear to know I just don't like soap box statements like this saying 25 clubs cross VC demonstrates depth of talent statewide. It doesn't.

It might be good for the competition to have this representation - very good in fact, but the simple numbers don't say much about talent at all. It might say more about crap or good coaching, and good structured programs, particularly in 12's and 14's.

Reply #478604 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Yes I agree that the coaching, club culture and longevity in its structure are crucial to creating teams that make VC consistently. Notwithstanding those that have this and still recruit to gain the prestige of being in VC year in and year out.

Call it Div1, not reserve and it gives you another perspective, perhaps not such a perception that too many teams are called VC or referred to as Championship quality!

My point here agrees with what you say HO, in the reference to it being good for the competition, but I look at it being goog for the kids that play, good that we have those teams at the top end. The concept of VC is good!

The regional and lower end of VJBL is of course important and has its own place, but really is there to develop bottom agers with plenty more to learn IMO than to provide Associations with the glory of VC representation, where of course most of their Big V and perhaps SEABL players will come from.

In the end, the top of the pyramid is always very narrow, but I don't see any problem with the amount of teams my self. Team 11 will win VC reserve and may have just had a tough run, missing out after 9 rounds in making VC. Maybe team 20 is out of its league one year, but next year the whole comp could be closer, changes every season as the overall depth across the state ebbs and flows...

Reply #478613 | Report this post




 

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