Poachers or not?
Years ago

Club Clearance numbers

Have heard a lot here about Forestville and Sturt poaching players from other clubs.

Went looking on the BSA website and saw some interesting info.

Looks like it is in fact South and West who get the most players from other clubs.

This season since September we see.

South +21 clearances accepted over given
West +18
Norwood +8
North +7
Sturt +1
Forestville -11
Woodville -40
Southern - no info posted
Centrals - no info posted
Eastern - no info posted
( these three sound account for a combined -4)

Is this normal?

What is the best explanation for it?

Does this mean that Forestville and Sturt aren't poaching like everyone says? Or that West and South are doing a better job of poaching now? And why the exodus from Woodville? They make up a large number of kids moving to West and North!

Topic #35869 | Report this topic

Years ago

Clearly west and south are struggling. West in particular seems to be good at finding new ways to fail and as their younger groups move through they will get worse. West are out there seeking anyone they can get to bolster there extremely weak younger sides.

The flow of these kids into these programs are kids from the low end, or fringe, of the strong programs that want the chance to play div 1 or 2 on a friday night rather than concerned about the quality of coaching or program quality they play in. As the strong clubs mentioned continue to be burgeoning with talented kids there will be those kids that are talented enough as they get into u16/u18 to make div 1 at a new club other than their current one.

It's a free world and hopefully as these clubs pick up the fringe kids they will use this to help get more resources to become more competitive. The kids get an opportunty to play at a higher level and assuming they get better coaching at div 1 of these other clubs than they get in div 3 or lower in the stronger clubs it will be good for their development. It's all healthy movement to help even things out hopefully.

Reply #502206 | Report this post

Poachers or not?  
Years ago

But most of these kids are coming from Woodville, not from the fringe of stronger clubs.

Reply #502207 | Report this post

Hanging Round  
Years ago

Anon can't seem to support their own comments.
Perhaps South & West have improved their structures which is attracting players across.
I doubt Anon is from either of those clubs, but from of the clubs with the 'elite' teams and will wait until summer is over, then look at poaching the cream.

Reply #502217 | Report this post

Years ago

Woodville parents voted with their feet over the way the Al Green sacking was handled. Not the leaving of Al it was never about Al but about the way it was handled and more will follow at the end of the summer leaving a sinking ship.

Reply #502219 | Report this post

Years ago

The way I read that was west have gained 18 players in total (the actual numbers may have been +23 and -5 players)
Which means South and West are doing a better job at keeping kids and attracting them to the program
Would be interested in knowing which people "are out there seeking anyone they can get to bolster their extremely weaker younger sides"

im surprised with sturt and forestville numbers I wouldve thought they wouldve gained more kids then they lost
woodville are obviously in the worse position losing so many players (remembering these are only the players cleared to another club not all the players have quit) also only having div 1 sides in u12 boys, u14 boys and girls and u16 boys

I also think South are very much on the rise they have a lot of numbers they have recruited some good coaches and starting to develop some kids with skill
can see them becoming part of the new big 3

Reply #502221 | Report this post

Years ago

Having been involved with South Last season (now moved back to Melbourne)I can defintly see South starting to push towards being a strong club in Div 1 and 2. 14 boys a very strong year and the girls program in general I think you will see a massive improvement over the next 12 - 18 months.

Terry does a awesome effort in the U10 boys, not enough credit goes his was I think!!

Reply #502232 | Report this post

Years ago

Poaching refers to when a club is taking a top level talent from a lower club, so what people perceive that clubs like Sturt & Forestville do.

What clubs like West & South can do is offer those players in Divisions 2 & 3 at other clubs the opportunity to player in a higher grade & therefore creating a more even competition for all.

What's the point in all the best kids playing at only a couple of clubs & dominating every week???

Reply #502239 | Report this post

Hanging Round  
Years ago

Summed it up well "Wiz"
Gives more players opportunity to play Div 1 and "perhaps" prove that they have been overlooked
For years I have read on Hoops that the blocking of Pro/Rel will lead to players looking elsewhere and hence improving the competition, so let's hope (but not get too excited ) that this may happen
I tend to think that many of these players are simply going to a club where they may have a pathway to better coasching and opportunities

Reply #502264 | Report this post

Billie Buckets  
Years ago

The original numbers aren't exactly accurate as it doesn't take into account the +/- transfers of some district Clubs such as United, SA Church and the University-based district basketball teams.

For those +/- transfer numbers to have any real insight into movement and poaching we need a breakdown of Senior/Youth League transfers and Junior transfers.

They'd be many Senior and YL people moving clubs but few 20+ year olds would be moving due to 'poaching'. Reasons these players move would be due to freewill, cheaper fees, possibility to play with friends, moving to a new area of Adelaide.

The Junior transfers need to be broken down into at least 4 categories:
1. Players 'jumping ship'.
2. Players 'looking' for opportunity.
3. Players 'approached' with the incentive of opportunity.
4. Other (eg moving to new area of Adelaide)

I don't think even BSA could give us this complete breakdown but until then aren't we all really just spruiking our own Clubs and grinding gears with rival Clubs?

Reply #502265 | Report this post

Years ago

Hanging Around, check your clubs results in U10-U16. This may explain why "the cream" as you put it might not be happy. Maybe when considering this, consider your "better coaching" theory. Your club has been a powerhouse. Now it is abysmal, most people are amazed with how quickly things have gone bad.

Reply #502267 | Report this post

Years ago

I have found these records on sporting pulse not always 100% the odd one gets missed.

Also you can work out transfers to / from the clubs that don't list by seeing the other end of the transfer. Unless it is between 2 of the non recording clubs.

I would rather see one page with all transactions like the VJBL page.

Reply #502272 | Report this post

Years ago

IMO clearances are up a small % - but there are more kids playing

Reply #502273 | Report this post

Years ago

would like to know % of juniors out of the game 12 months after a clearance

Reply #502276 | Report this post

Years ago

Another one being players that move clubs, the same problems follow them, then return to their old club and the same problems follow them. Very unlucky, these players.

Reply #502282 | Report this post

Same Ol Same Ol  
Years ago

^ I'd say if it keeps following them they aren't unlucky like they have a poltegeist following them it's more than likely they a) expect more than they deliver eg not the standard the parent thinks they are b) had a shit experience with a coach so decided it was the clubs fault and then at the new club had the same issue c) possible a little from a and b

Reply #502295 | Report this post

Years ago

Billie Buckets, it is a choice that players and families have a right to chose so no explanation needed. The clubs as individuals should do exit and entry interviews by an independent and find out what the issues are and if there is a pattern then they need to address it as a club. Not really anyone else's business. Some clubs are changing direction. Some are expanding by harassing school basketballers as they come in the door and now have enormous numbers from different regions of Adelaide, that should as an entry point by BSA be given information about all clubs programs and be encouraged to go to their local club. BSA needs to sort that issue out immediately. I know some of the kids that have taken up positions at a club that has Mini Ball live closer to Woodville so lets hope that at some point when they see they are the bottom of the pack and it is about numbers and not quality and limited room for progression and competing against your own club, that they decided to go back to their local club. There is always more to it than meets the eye.

Reply #502309 | Report this post

Years ago

You might be annoyed if your club is drawing so many players as that may actually destabilise a clubs loyalty base if players are moved to accommodate transfers so a club can achieve more. Then if you are dropped to a lower division with masses of school basketballers coming in that adds to your frustrations. Will be interesting to watch the next few seasons to see if there is a clear out of existing players as a result. Maybe not as wonderful as first thought to have such high numbers coming in.

Reply #502311 | Report this post

Jack Toft  
Years ago

Looking at some of the names on those clearances, some of those players are at their 3rd or 4th club. I see one player is returning to their old club after a number of clubs. Someone has mentioned above about problems following those players, I know in that player's case there was a good reason why they left their original club in the first place.

Some players are the children of coaches who have moved clubs and that is understandable and I suspect some players have moved for opportunities that their old club couldn't offer.

As a % of the total number of players, I suspect it's not too high. The number of players leaving the sport through dis-illusionment would be a lot higher.

Reply #502315 | Report this post

Years ago

So Hanging Round, anytime someone moves TO West it's because of "improved structures and better coaching attracting talent", but anytime someone moves FROM West, it's "poaching"?!
A laughable explanation, but nice hypocrisy especially coming from your involvement with one of if not the worst club for actively courting players from other clubs.

Reply #502324 | Report this post

Years ago

Good reason to leave first club Jack? What about 2nd, 3rd, 4th clubs? Did the player also seek out 5th and 6th clubs at different times and was rejected by said clubs?

Don't answer that, just think about it. No need to have a discussion here with you.

Reply #502327 | Report this post

Years ago

Where can you find this information on the BSA website?

Reply #502331 | Report this post

Years ago

With the recent change of Div 2 comps in u16 and u18 boys from 12 teams (often 2 from both Sturt and Forestville) to 10 teams it means that the 'surplus' boys are looking for a new home in div 2 team at a second tier club with the possibility of cracking into Div 1

Best bet would be for a team of 6-8 kids going straight to woodville and asking for the currently vacant 18 Div 1 team! That would be a cracker in time for Junior State Champs.

Reply #502333 | Report this post

Years ago

Players moving just for a div 1 spot is a rarity as shows by the small volumes of players moving.

Most parents of juniors want good coaching, good culture and good life experience for their kids rather than chasing a div 1 spot in an environment that gives them less of the above. It does happen but most want quality and development rather than a div 1 spot at the expense of these.

Reply #502336 | Report this post

Years ago

Can anyone provide a link to the numbers/players please?

Reply #502378 | Report this post

Years ago

"one of if not the worst club for actively courting players from other clubs"

gee I hope it's true about West...

Sturt and Eagles been doing it for years...about time we got into the action

Reply #502398 | Report this post

Hanging Round  
Years ago

So proud that we now have program to offer these 'poached' players. LOL
Free choice is great

Reply #502438 | Report this post


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