Happy Days
Years ago

Hawks-11 straight losses what next?

Time to make a change after 11 straight losses. Your choices are either:

a) Sack the coach
b) Sack both imports
c) Sack one import
d) Make no change

Topic #35967 | Report this topic


Jack Toft  
Years ago

e) something else

Reply #503934 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

It's to the point now where why would you sake either import, pay out their contract and sign another import and still not make the playoffs? Yes you're playing for pride etc, I say it's beyond the point of repair now so do you waste money on a lost season to MAYBE get another 1 or 2 wins or do you just try to develop some of the younger players/newer players?

Reply #503937 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Agree with what your saying Nat but crowds are dropping resulting in lost revenue and you have to be seen to be doing something.Needs to be some light at the end of the tunnel.You would have to think there will be some guys leaving at the end of the season.

Reply #503939 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

Did I say SAKE?! SACK!****

True, Wollongong crowds do come and go depending on not just the record but more so the effort the team gives and this team is really lacking effort and heart at the moment.

Both imports will be gone come season's end. So will Nevill and very likely another Aussie will be released/not re-signed.

Reply #503940 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Why sack probably the best coach in the league over the last 10 years.

It appears the chemistry hasn't been right this year....Neville isn't fitting, imports haven't really worked as a combination either.

Try and play out the year see what you get from a couple of the bench Aussies with an eye to the future/nest year.

Gordie hasn't got it wrong with his limited budget often so you have to respect him and think he'll get them back on track next year.


Reply #503942 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Agree, why throw the baby out with the bath water, let's go with option (e) something else...

Reply #503944 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

Would they really need to pay out the import? Has the deadline gone for not having to pay out an import?

If they can cut an import without paying them and want to go cheap then cut either import and bring in Montreal. Also release Hill and get in Richie Edwards who I imagine would play for minimum. That would be a more balanced line up.

Reply #503945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

interesting to hear who picked the team - was it Gordie or was it the new owner? Hearing some of the comments that were in the paper before the first game from the owner, it wouldn't surprise me if it was him.

it was something along the lines of - if we had this team last year we would have won the comp...

Reply #503947 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

If your the owner you let the coach coach and you pay the bills.Difficult situation for Gordie as the owner won't be liking this one bit.

Reply #503949 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

You can stick a fork in Ballinger too.

Reply #503950 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Years ago

Is it time to ask whether or not Gordie is actually that good of a coach?

I know he has done good things with average rosters in the past but that doesn't explain why he is sitting on an 11 game losing streak with the best talent he has ever had at his disposal.

Does the new owner have his finger too far into the pie? If so, why doesn't Gordie throw in the towel to save face and pop up in one of the new teams next year, given the chance to build a fresh team to his liking without an owner poking in.

2 Undersized PG and a lumbering slow ball big man aren't good for a team balance, I'll give him that. Whoever made that call should also be sacked.

Also Nevill was way over rated when he came into the team, yes you can't teach height but apparently in Nevill's case you can't teach effort either.

Reply #503953 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

You have to do something or you risk losing the fanbase.

Reply #503963 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Think people are getting caught up in the talent factor a bit. This team is good on paper but def not the best talent Gordie has had to work with. Bunch of NBL rejects and some undersized imports. Hill, Ballinger are done, Demos is nothing special and Martin hasn't even been there from the get go.... As for Neville he is just big and ugly, hasn't accomplished a thing at NBL level.

Reply #503964 | Report this post


Wonders  
Years ago

That Gruber sacking makes even less sense now doesn't it. Interesting turn of events for that guy -- comes in as an import, then gets fired as an Aussie a few years later. Really feel sorry for him

Reply #503967 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

Agree with the comment that this team is good in paper. Paper does not always translate to on court success as seems to be the case with the Hawks.

I can't remember a Hawks team ever being this bad...

Reply #503969 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

I have not watched them play that much, but I have to say the times I have seen the Crocs, they don't really play Neville into their offence that much...

I think a guy like Luke needs to gain confidence from his team mates in recognising his presence in the middle and using it more as the base for their offence, not as an exception after everything else fails to work! (MHO only)

Reply #503970 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

too many additions to the team who lack court smarts. then owner meddling which wrecked confidence of the rest.

Reply #503975 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Nevill can be a first or second option on offense if used correctly. He needs the ball though. Once that happens it frees up the other guys as defences collapse. Perhaps Gordie isn't comfortable with basing an offense with such an inside presence?

Reply #503979 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

That's what I've been thinking he's not used to having centres with offensive games i.e. Davidson & Gruber.

Reply #503983 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

In the past, the balance of their roster and how they compliment each other has been a big driving force in their success.

They had players who played well to the team systems and structures.

That is gone.

And without that, they're relying on sheer talent, which they don't have.

Reply #503989 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

I think Nevill showed with his stint in Townsville that he can be a prominent guy on a winning team.

After he arrived midway through 2012/14 season they largely based their offense around him and Gary Ervin and had a winning record (10-9) after that shocker start (started 0-9 from memory), despite a very poor supporting cast.

Moreover, the eye test (would like to go into more detail with data but the NBL doesn't keep any) said that the Crocs were much better on both ends that year with him on the floor. For whatever reason, he fell in and out of favour with Woolpert at times and the Crocs played terribly whenever he sat. Woolpert cited an inability to guard the pick and roll but I thought he did a great job containing P&Rs, which led me to believe there was something else involved.

This guy has fallen out of favour with nearly every coach he's played under, but on the court he plays the right way and seems like a decent teammate with a good bball IQ, so I'm not sure what it is.

Reply #503993 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Some coaches just don't know how to coach (bigs)!

Reply #503994 | Report this post


pwned  
Years ago

"It's to the point now where why would you sake either import, pay out their contract and sign another import and still not make the playoffs? Yes you're playing for pride etc, I say it's beyond the point of repair now so do you waste money on a lost season to MAYBE get another 1 or 2 wins or do you just try to develop some of the younger players/newer players?"

As a paying season ticket holder I think SOMETHING needs to be done. No one should be happy with mediocrity and a defeatist "oh well, we tried" attitude just doesn't cut it for a professional team/business. They owe it to their fans to make adjustments and at least attempt to improve. It's the worst basketball I can ever remember watching. And I coached under 14 division 2.

Reply #503998 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

Won't happen but I'd gladly have Ervin back with the 36ers if it meant getting rid of Wilson.

Reply #504020 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

And I agree that they aren't using Neville to their best advantage. The guy is the tallest in the league at 7'2" (only just beating our Luke) and he does have a good offensive game when he's allowed to show it. Bit slow sometimes on defence but at his height and weight he's never going to be as light on his feet as Gary Ervin.

He didn't become a Boomer because he's a mug, he can play a bit.

That Townsville team mentioned about had an 0-10 record to start the 2012-13 season. Neville's first game for them came in their first win for the year.....against Adelaide. It sent us on a club record equalling 8 game losing streak...Marty Clarke's second such losing streak with us in 2 years.

Reply #504022 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It sent us on a club record equalling 8 game losing streak...Marty Clarke's second such losing streak with us in 2 years.


2 wooden spoons in his 3 years in the job too.

Requesting Marcus Camby to thread!

Reply #504024 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mick. He falls out of favour because he can't remember an offense.

Reply #504046 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

"2 wooden spoons in his 3 years in the job too."

You're forgetting that in the other year we finished.....second last.

Wonderful coach, best we've ever had. Move over King Cole, you're relieved of duty General Smyth, Marty was in the building.

Reply #504070 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Anon#046, maybe the offense you are referring to is too complex and could be simplified?

We see players running around like chooks in a pen all the time, trying to run an offense.

Yet most scoring comes from simple sets and plays or from broken play, not some fancy long winded dance that is supposed to make a coach look good when it comes off once a quarter...

Reply #504076 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hawks offence runs on the perimeter and 3 ball - that's the reason the have been the worst rebounding team in recent years - they were also bailed out by Clarke and foreman when they knocked down shots it all worked - now no one can hit the side of a barn let alone score more than 15 points in anything other than junk time
Drop Carson and grab a decent sg who can hit the 3

Reply #504077 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

It doesn't get much simpler than that, does it?

Reply #504078 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Hawks are going to curtain off part of the stadium so it doesnt look so empty.Its what you have to do when your not winning games:
http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2717549/hawks-to-close-off-section-of-wec/?cs=302

Reply #504079 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seem's that "NBA Bound" Jahii Carson is putting the blame on others.

From Today's Illawarra Mercury
http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2717508/will-the-hawks-ever-stop-slide/?cs=302

Guard Jahii Carson's frustration spilled over after the game when he tweeted 'you can’t be consistent with people are simply disinterested’.

Captain Oscar Forman urged his teammates to remain supportive of each other.

‘‘Worry about what you can do for the team,’’ Forman said.

‘‘It’s not a time to go try and get yours. It’s time to be accountable for yourself, making sure your house is in order and then help others. That’s the way it has to be. Without that it just turns too individual.

‘‘You look at teams that are stacked, when they try and play individual they just get beaten by a team that plays together. That’s something we just don’t have right now.’’

Reply #504080 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"I think Nevill showed with his stint in Townsville that he can be a prominent guy on a winning team."

If you look at his minutes Nevill appears to have fallen out of favour towards the end of that year too. I think Gordie is still learning to use him right, but Luke isn't always his own best friend.

He hasn't come into the group in great shape, his core and leg strength isn't where it needs to be and his touch is the worst I've seen it. His interior defence and rebounding has been very good at times, in fairness, and the Hawks need to try and use his midrange game.

Reply #504081 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Its also between the ears with Luke.

Reply #504086 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

Like the dinosaurs, it's a long way from the brain to the feet ;-)

Reply #504087 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Carson needs to go, right now. He's proven to be a cancer on a team that is so far removed from the all for one, one for all mentality that has been what this franchise is all about. Those tweets of his are a glaring example of what is an attitude that this club needs to get rid of ASAP.

Reply #504092 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a 20 year member, my sentiments exactly match #504092

Put him on a plane.

Reply #504110 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yep - well said Anon 4092 and Anon 4110.

Reply #504111 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

I'd put on the plane to. Bring back last years import.At least he played with some passion and energy.(not Clarkeas hes in Belguim)

Reply #504112 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sometimes its better to go for the known quantity than always try to hit the home run off a limited budget.

They had Ervin, a known qunatity MVP level guy, probably cheaper than he would have been a few years a go too, so maybe that was the home run and they should have bought back Hurdle or Tiggs to play the sg/sf. Both are known quantitys to Geordie, the hawks and most of the team and both were known as great guys if i remember correctly.

Neville, can see why the bought him in from the start with Davidson being out, maybe should have just bought him in for the few weeks Davidson was missing and then re-evaluate after that, they could look better with Gruber for Neville right now.

Im pretty sure a line up of this would be cheaper and better than the current line up

Davidson/Gruber
Forman/Ballinger
Coenraad/Hill
Hurdle/Demos
Ervin/Martin

Not too many differences really, but shows that going for the home run isnt always the answer. Why people always try drastic changes to a playoff team, especially when on a tight budget. The kings last season were another example of this, had a good run then bought in Young and forgot how to use Ogilvy, would have been better off leaving it as is.

Reply #504116 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I cant believe people in Wollongong were hyping up Carson before the season started just from dunks he was doing at practice! 0 dunks in a game so far and not much else he can contribute. Ervin is not much better

Reply #504122 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think Ervin would be doing better along side a Lance Hurdle type import fwiw, its hard to have 2 guys with a very similar game excel on the same team, Ervin has atleast shown a better jump shot and generally pretty good team work over his NBL career.

Reply #504124 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I remember a couple of seasons ago the Hawks started playing better the instant they put Showron Glover on the plane, even though he had hardly been playing, because the team apparently couldn't stand him. I wonder if it could be the same case here.

Reply #504133 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Exactly #116, at this level the slightest adjustment could make all the difference.

Reply #504135 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

How are people rating Ervin above Carson?! Ervin's a nutcase and has underperformed relative to 5-point local role players, let alone the standard expected from former-MVPs.

Carson is a better teammate than Ervin, has been producing more offensively and has actually made it onto the court more (due to Ervin's lingering injuries). The only genuine knocks on Carson are his below-average defense (which Geordie is renowned for circumventing) and outside shooting. If you look at in-detail statistics from his college career: Carson can hit open catch-and-shoot threes at a reasonable clip, just not off the dribble.

Reply #504148 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

wow long thread with 0 insider knowledge just speculation... yawn

anyone know what is really happening?

Reply #504166 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

What insider knowledge are you looking for? Nothing's happened!

Reply #504183 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Playmaker, you ignoring the comments explaining why Carson is bad for the team?

Reply #504190 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

190, I've only just read the article linked above with Carson's tweet. As much as it was definitively inappropriate, it's also appears to be an accurate characterization. Otherwise I'm not reading many explanations that provide more insight than 'Carson is shit.'

I'm basing my comments on Ervin from what (credible) people inside the 36ers organisation have told me, and basing my comments on Carson from what I've seen of him on the court: I don't believe Carson's on-court play is detrimental to the team, and I don't believe Ervin is providing the Hawks with value equivalent to his pay and status within the league based on his injuries, on court performances and antics last season.

Not ignoring anything, JMO.

Reply #504197 | Report this post


Harry Hackrein  
Years ago

Close to folding or relocation?

Reply #504198 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No one is arguing that Carson has talent and at this stage is a better player than Ervin. The issue isn't talent, the issue is that he appears to have a bad attitude and his teammates don't seem to like him very much.

Case in point - he went down hard in one play against the Kings at the Sandpit. Not one of his teammates went to help him up, or even bother to check on his condition. That's one instance and there have been others. He's inordinately selfish on a team that's prided itself for years on their ball movement and finding the open man, he looks like he's just trying to get stats rather than run the offence and when he doesn't have the ball he's basically useless - not to mention he couldn't guard a chair.

This is about what's really wrong with Wollongong - their atrocious chemistry. Great chemistry is something this team could always hang its hat on, but this season even a blind man can see how bad things are within that group.

Carson certainly isn't the only problem in that team, no question. But as an import, he's a problem that can go away very quickly if they make the right call. Most Hawks fans are amazed that call hasn't been made yet.

Reply #504213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#504213 is right, the players reaction to that Carson injury against the Kings was pretty damning. The only person who showed even a little bit of concern was the Kings doc.

Just this arvo on the Mercury they are reporting Carson and Ervin missed training today due to back spasms and flu. Hopefully the club is looking at possible replacements. Bring Back the Rot!!!

Reply #504253 | Report this post


david  
Years ago

just watch, in a few weeks time, hawks will play 36ers in the gong. and somehow, the stars will align and 36ers will lose. its how we roll

Reply #504269 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

I'd suggest they wouldn't need to align to much for us to lose to Wollongong at the moment.

Reply #504280 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

We don't play them until January 18 though. So you'd imagine they would have won a couple before then. Well, you'd hope so anyway.
You'd hope we would have sorted out our recent slump too.

Reply #504282 | Report this post


Harry Hackrein  
Years ago

Sheesh. An 0-11 game streak is a SLuMP.

Reply #504283 | Report this post




 

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