!
Years ago

rule clarification req

if a player picks their dribble up for a lay up, starts their steps and fouled and then shoots - 2pts count - as they had picked their dribble up.

what happens if they pick their dribble up, start their steps, fouled - but the foul causes a stumble and they travel then chuck a shot up and it goes in - does that count - or is basket waved away ?

Topic #36013 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Waved away.

Reply #504908 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

No basket, but free throws should be awarded.

Reply #504909 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

And1, don't give the defence that much advantage, it's not in the spirit of the game I say... Player with the ball is still trying to score, so nothing changes IMO.

Reply #504912 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Geez, I hope Bear is not a referee in ANY capacity!

Reply #504917 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

It depends how blatant the travel is.

If it's just an extended gather step with another two steps, you will generally get an And 1, which to me is in the spirit of the game.

Reply #504921 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ask a rule question get 5 different answers from fans. What hope have referees got when every fan expects a different call on the one play.

Reply #504928 | Report this post


!  
Years ago

i reckon waved away is correct. can't allow a violation to be used as an advantage.

Reply #504943 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

So, anon #917, you don't like my opinion on the issue, that's fine as I am not saying that it the correct call.

Nor is it what would normally be called, perhaps, as it depends on so many factors.

I am expressing what I believe to be in the spirit of the game and taking away the blatant foul by rewarding the player who is playing the ball is one way of doing this.

But what is you opinion on fouling somone trying to do a lay-up, is it okay to do so...? If so, then at what point do you stop a game because it is getting out of hand, some official you would make, eh??

Reply #504949 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

#912, not 917..

Reply #504954 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear no one said it is a blatant foul and the game is out of control...it appears to be just a normal garden variety foul

Reply #504962 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure what the 'discussion' is about. If its anything other than a 'garden variety foul' (of which the defender has five goes at it a game) there are options for the referee there. Perhaps a referees willingness to take those options is where the grey starts.

Otherwise its the defenders 'option' to use his 5 before it gets unsportman-like, flagrant or down right unsafe to do so however he sees fit and its the offensive players 'option' to draw those fouls out of that defender any which way he can.

Reply #504964 | Report this post


!  
Years ago

there is a valid point to reward the spirit of the game and award the duece if the travel is subtle

Reply #504967 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Correct, if the foul is there, why not call it, my point is that if the ball player is trying to score and the defender is just fouling why give that player incentive to do so without consequence of no additional score?

It is a scoring game, not a tackling game. Doesn't matter if the foul is soft or hard, as long as it isn't flagrantly excessive or dangerous, just my opinion anyways...

Reply #504970 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/Rules/2014/FIBAOfficialInterpretations2014_yellow.pdf

25-5 covers the exact situation discussed. No basket, two free-throws.

Reply #504978 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear just making up the rules as you go....

I would make a better ref as I would apply the rules, not only the bits I like as you appear to!!

Reply #504982 | Report this post


shayno  
Years ago

I believe that once the travel occurs the play would be dead. therefore the basket wouldn't count but as they were in the motion of shooting then the free throws would be awarded, also I don't think there is an "Advantage rule" in basketball?

Reply #504988 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear is applying the 'common sense rule', something most referees don't use. I don't think he is saying he is right just an opinion.

Reply #504990 | Report this post


Percy  
Years ago

Referees must seek to enforce the rules that apply in any given situation, whether or not this conforms to everyone's personal idea of 'common sense'.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeay for Percy the referee. No common sense required, right?

Reply #505080 | Report this post


johnestuff  
Years ago

A foul cannot cause a travel. If a player is fouled in the act of shooting, then the inadvertent extra step has no bearing on the play - and 1 on a made basket, or two shots on a miss.

Reply #505089 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Johnestuff

You might want to read what was posted earlier by kobe

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/Rules/2014/FIBAOfficialInterpretations2014_yellow.pdf

25-5 covers the exact situation discussed. No basket, two free-throws.

Reply #505093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Rule should be changed then!

Reply #505096 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

LOL johnestuff looks like you couldn't have been more wrong if you tried!

Reply #505105 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would think 'common sense' would lead to the referee applying the actual rule not some variation of it.

Reply #505119 | Report this post


Dane Suttle  
Years ago

Shayno, pretty sure there is an advantage rule in basketball. This comes in if a player deliberately fouls to stop a score. An umpire can call an unsportsman foul or let play continue if a score is imminent.

Reply #505120 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Rule clarification is one thing. I think the OP has an answer to that. The rest is a bit of opinion and expression, not to get too hung up about rules, but they have been known to be interpreted in various ways by officials, coaches and players alike...

Reply #505124 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

"Rule should be changed then!"
Why? Can a player get fouled at one end of the court, then run all the way to the other end and score, and have the basket count? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. So where do you draw the line? The rule makes perfect sense.

Reply #505147 | Report this post


Dave  
Years ago

Yeah the rule makes sense. While you want to see the game free flowing both teams are playing by and making decisions based on the rules. It is good strategy to foul a player going to the basket and stop a layup. If they can take an extra step to square up and get an and 1 all this would do is encourage hard fouls to make sure there's no way they are getting a shot up...

Reply #505155 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes there is an advantage rule in basketball. Rule 47.3 requires each official to apply


* Consistency in application of the concept of 'advantage/disadvantage'. The officials should not seek to interrupt the flow of the game unnecessarily in order to penalise incidental personal contact which does not give the player responsible an advantage nor place his opponent at a disadvantage.



That sure sounds like an advantage rule to me.

Reply #505158 | Report this post


shayno  
Years ago

"the official shall not seek to interrupt"

man thats complex wording but I stand by my interpretation of the rules that there is no advantage rule as such.


The rule interprets it as "incidental personal contact" therefore no foul would of been called unlike in AFL, if the advantage rule was in effect then it could be called back but in bball u can't call the play back.

My opinion only though but damn its getting more complex to just "put the ball in the damn basket" these days

Reply #505174 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So, it just depends?

Reply #505189 | Report this post




 

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