what happened
Years ago

has cotter been a success at the Kings??

kings will not play finals this season. Is the weakness Coach Cotter , the playing roster, or are both "not up to it??"

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Sammy  
Years ago

The playing roster isn't far from impressive

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Sammy  
Years ago

Is far from **

Reply #510333 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

They went with a very inexperienced team this year and spent their dollars on Childress, so playoffs were always an outside chance.

I think Cotter has done some things well and some other things not so well, as you'd expect from a rookie coach. He's worth persevering with unless someone incredible makes themselves available.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Childress elevates them, but their Australian talent is pretty poor

Reply #510336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wouldn't say Cotter has underperformed but don't think he has been great either. Think he's done alright for a rookie and is worth keeping on. Their roster isn't that great outside of Childress, Madgen and Garlepp - they need another top Australian or another top import and they lack depth and size. While Garlepp has got better and is a starting caliber player he shouldn't be your third best player and I think they need to turn White or Joyce into a Leon Henry/Everard Bartlett type player next season to contend.

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Arnold  
Years ago

They should stop blowing cash on expensive imports and sign a decent coach, not a rookie and not a former player who wants to have a crack at coaching.

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Happy Days  
Years ago

I think he has done an ok job.Get a decent 2nd import and clean out the likes of Kevin White, Daniel Joyce and they'll have a better 2nd season.

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Isaac  
Years ago

He's done well considering his roster.

Reply #510342 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I didn't think Sydney would have to pay too much for Childress. Either way, he is value for money. I think Cotter's been great for a rookie. I also like his attitude on and off the court and the image he projects. Something guys like Gleeson could learn from.

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Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Roster is very poor so he has done an okay job.

As mentioned above really only 3 quality players...others like Ellis/Joyce/White/Dunkier/Brandt shouldn't be playing the amount of time they are if at all on a roster.

Perry also isn't great which doesn't help.

Also Cadee hasn't really steped up his game this year so they really rely on Childress, Garlepp, Madgen to carry the team

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What if  
Years ago

He's done well considering his roster and has potential to deliver more if the club supports him with a better mix of players. Up and coming coach .

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't think Cotter's success should be measured by his win/loss record. I think he was tasked with developing his young Aussie talent. Aside from Garlepp, I don't think they have come along as well as hoped, and even guys who were expected to rise up to the next level (Madgen and Cadee) have taken a backwards step.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Compare the roster of United with the Kings.

Sydney, without Childress, get within 3 of United and take them to OT. Cotter coached his ass off.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Cotter did put in some of his best coaching performances without Childress.

Cairns in Cairns and United in Melbourne were games they eventually lost although on paper they shouldn't have been within 15 points.

Its a shame it some of the role players haven't been able to knock down open shots with Childress in the lineup, it would have made Cotter look like a better coach.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Arnold said 'not a rookie and not a former player who wants to have a crack at coaching.'
Amazingly stupid quote.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The Kings haven't spent the salary cap this season even WITH Childress. This current ownership group isn't interested in spending Perth/NZ type money. Hence the least talented roster in the league.

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D4444  
Years ago

"I don't think Cotter's success should be measured by his win/loss record. I think he was tasked with developing his young Aussie talent. Aside from Garlepp, I don't think they have come along as well as hoped, and even guys who were expected to rise up to the next level (Madgen and Cadee) have taken a backwards step."

I agree 100% with this & you could argue that much of Garlepp's improvement happened under Heal so he has simply followed the same progression this season. On that basis you'd have to judge Cotter as a poor coach which is surprising considering the one thing he did have on his resume was the development of younger players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Garlepp's development came from his own work in the off season. Heal had nothing to do with it.
With the talent at Cotter's disposal I think Cotter has overachieved. His work ethic is outstanding and knowledge of the game equally great. Let's hope he gets a chance to prove he is a good Head Coach.
He did it well in SEABL and can certainly do it at NBL level.

Reply #510406 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Pretty sure as an NBL coach his job isn't to develop players...esp guys on 1 year deals.

Cotter's job is to win as many games per season as possible.

development is always nice but lets be frank guys should be work on there own games and using SEABL (like Garlepp & others have) to add new skills and work on there games.

The NBL isn't there to develop guys its the premier league in the country it is all about the W's

Reply #510410 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

To say Garlepp's improvement had nothing to do with either Heal or Cotter is silly. The improvement of young players from this season won't really be shown until next season.

Reply #510411 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Pretty sure as an NBL coach his job isn't to develop players...esp guys on 1 year deals."

Oh dear.

Reply #510415 | Report this post


Annonymous  
Years ago

I agree, they have development players for development. The rest of the team and coaches are there to win or they shouldn't be there...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Not every team is built for a title run each season, meaning that there needs to be some level of improvement from the players they have in the hope that they ready themselves for a playoff spot in the coming years. If you aren't competing for a title, and lets be real, the Kings team is not good enough on paper, so the next best thing you want to see is player development. That has happened either.

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Annonymous  
Years ago

But that is not because they put together a team to develop at season start, just it hasn't panned out the way they expected. Same Same for other teams but the concept of wanting to win is there from the outset even if they don't expect to.

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Dazz  
Years ago

Every Championship-Winning coach started out as a Rookie. I think you have to give Cotter more than a season before you pass judgement.

As for developing players, "success" is more than just winning pennants. Engaging your fan base means keeping players. Guys spending 10 years with one club are probably a thing of the past, but keeping your good players for several years and retaining the majority of your roster from one season to the next, is what builds hardcore support.

Reply #510435 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Finally this is getting brought up properly instead of just me whinging about it...

I think only so much can be down to poor execution from the players... There never seems to be anything run, or anything decent run, to get shooters open... The plan in place should be from the coach and by now, fully drilled into his players... There's no-one crashing boards... This should also be instilled into the players... The general lack of direction and disorganisation on court, this far into the season, without any real changes or frustration shown from him, I think is a reflection on his coaching...

The general roster of the team is probably less than last season, although looking at it again, probably not by much...

2013/14
Sanders*^ / Carmouche*^ / Gleeson/Armor
Madgen / James Harvey
Young*^ / Brad Hill
Garlepp / Cody Ellis
Ogilvy / Ben Allen


2014/15
Cadee / Perry*
Madgen / Joyce
Childress* / White
Garlepp / Ellis
Brandt / Duinker

The way he's using the players at times is ridiculous... Pulling a player that is on a roll or is the only hustle player for either no good reason, or because they picked up a silly foul, to players being left out there for too long, either because they're not being effective, or they're our 9th/10th level players, when we've got three starters on the bench...

Cotter already had Madgen, Garlepp, White and Ellis signed for him when he took the job. THat still leaves a lot of wriggle room to sign new players. My point at the time of searching for a new coach, was that we needed a proper name coach, not just because of the experience needed with an inexperienced team, but also to be able to draw top level quality to the team. Of the new local additions, Cadee, Brandt, Duinker and Joyce, the first three are locals, and possibly only Cadee, maybe Brandt, would have been sought after by other teams and I don't think needed a lot of convincing to come here... Even getting Childress was the work of young master Hudson, if you believe the stories upon his arrival. So really what has he done? Selected an inexperienced import PG and stuck with him despite a poor season. If Perry has lived up to Cotter's expectations or his output has been acceptable, then that's enough to give him the sack. Such a young and inexperienced team needed a high quality starting PG at the start of the season, and needed more output from their starting PG during the rest of the season.

If Cotter had managed to use his relationship with AJ as his assistant coach to convince him to forgo his plan to only be here one season, I would have been more impressed.

Overall, thumbs down from me, despite the lack of top quality talent.

ps - does anyone know what that NBA scout dude is doing with the players? They made a big deal about signing him, but what's he supposed to be doing again?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So do you coach IRL Wookiee?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What shooters do they have? Only really Madgen and he is more known for mid range shots coming off curls. Ellis also has some value as a stretch 4 shooter.

A big part of their problem has been spacing as teams really crowd Childress on his drives and they don't have enough shooters to make teams pay.

Childress is also 2nd in the league in offensive rebounding.

Some teams do punt offensive rebounds to protect transition play

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/party-crashers-debunking-the-myths-of-offensive-rebounding-and-transition-defense/

Perhaps it is Cotters plan to only have one King crashing the O boards.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

2013/14
Sanders-Carmouche/Gleeson
Madgen/White
Young/Harvey
Garlepp/Hill
Ogilvy/Ellis/Allen

2014/15
Perry/Cadee
Madgen/Joyce
Childress/White
Garlepp/Ellis
Brandt/Duinker

In my opinion last years roster is far superior as I think Brandt/Childress is worst than Young and Ogilvy. Perry is also worst than Sanders and Carmouche. I think that last years team had way more depth at Wing and were stronger inside. They didn't make the four due to Heal and ownership clashing. Childress is carrying the team this year and they lack shooting outside of Madgen. I'm not too sure how much they spent this year compared to last year but would think less - I could be wrong though. So overall I would give Cotter a pass and think he deserves time. Rotation wise he probably plays Joyce and White too much and doesn't give Perry enough of a leash but other than that for what he's had to work with he's been fine. Next year I think Sydney need to get either a top Australian player or another top import next to Childress or another stud to compete as you won't win with Madgen as your best Australian player unless you have two top imports in my opinion.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Childress is in talks now and they certainly need another import that can play at this level.
The Aussie squad is questionable and the old guys as in joyce, white, and even Cadee need to be told to move on. Weeks is playing well in Europe FWIH. Dunno.
Ellis should be able to pay better and if he cant do it next season, Bye Bye.
Garlepp has improved with nothing to do with Heal and has taken his game from a great seabl player to a good NBL player.
Brandt not sure about, but in all honesty disappointing. Duinker needs to spend some time in the SEABL and dominate. That wont happen because of his dual passport where he will go O/S and play in a weak completion. Happy to be corrected on that.
Lots of potential with a dramatic improvement required next season. Cotter knows the game well and is a studious coach who needs to be able to have some time to get it right.

Reply #510478 | Report this post


JWC  
Years ago

Not overly impressed with Cotter.

Childress's output has fallen off as other teams have scouted him of late. Cotter should be changing up the pattern every week to overcome the scouting.
Think KW time should be largly given to Ellis as he is showing signs of late as being a productive player. See no sigh that plays are run for players
in spots where they seem more comfortable. To Cotters credit, we have lost a lot of close gamesbut need a better strategy to finish off games, not just keep doing the samr e thing and find we're a few points away at the end. With Chills ability or even Perrys,with the ball and to get assists, why not spread the floor anf let them work 1 on 1..If the defence collapses the kick it out to a shooter. Etc.

For next year, lets hope that Childress and Madgen and Garlepp stay in Sydney

Then we have already signed;

Cadee
Madgen
Childress
Garlepp
Brant
duinker
Ellis

We need a V Good Import PG in place of Perry
A better quality Big instead of Joyce
A better 3 pt shooter.instead of White.
Perhaps a more experienced coach.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Is Ellis signed for next season though? I thought only his option was taken up this season...

If we can get a starting quality BIG big, and an experienced PG that will go a long way... Getting a spot up shooter that can nail it, would be an extra bonus... I reckon we could pull those all out from the Crocs, personally... Markovic, Steindl and Gladness :)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

He signed Daniel Joyce. Nuff said.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Wookie

The NBA dude is here claiming to be the technical coach but from what I have heard doing very little other than eating Krispy Kreme and hanging out with tim hudson who
created the position.

Reply #510625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Oh you mean Tim Hudson whos idea it was to get Childress here?
Same one?

Reply #510627 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Cotter has done a good job. If Childress didn"t get injured they would have probably made finals. He is as good as any coach going around - he just has not got the financial might and quality of player that a few other teams have.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Right now all the knockers got it wrong.

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Uwe Blab  
Years ago

No, winning one game doesn't sum up his entire season, no matter how big of a win it was.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Never said that. He needs time to develop the side that he wants. Most here will agree he has limited talent and tonights win shows the potential the Kings can achieve with that talent. That comes from good coaching.

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JWC  
Years ago

a good off season with as many of; Brant,Duinker, Cadee, Ellis, and perhaps even Garlepp and Madgen playing for regional teams and trying to develop their games, and learning ways to dominate at that level,might make a big difference next year.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

I'm just starting to watch the NZ game now, so I'll reserve my judgement on that until after, but I sort of have to agree with both sides... He's got the coaching skills, certainly more than Moose and Hammer, and given the time and experience, I think he'll be very good...

That doesn't mean that what he's done wrong this season can be completely discounted, but games look a LOT better when the team is putting in the hard work and hustle on plays and the shots are dropping... During the Breakers game, at least what I've seen so far, the players haven't done a lot wrong, he hasn't had to find a group that's working well together, because no matter who's out there, they're working well as a team...

When it boils down to it, he's probably the best coach we've had since coming back, and given the tools and time he could make something good of it (IF he can manage to draw some great Aussie talent to the team) I guess I'm just disappointed more with the team they put together from the coach (when they COULD have been targeting someone like Bevo) but failing signing an experienced coach, they went and signed inexperienced and undersized players in crucial roles.

All in all, Cotter probably gets more of a pass mark than the ownership/management group does... The best thing they did was approve the payment to Childress...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You can't respect someone who is supposed to be a head coach/leader of a professional sports team who then get bullied to let Daniel Joyce into your squad. I still can't believe daddy j0yce has managed to get his son into the league again and it's 2015. NBL - nuthin' better

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Duinker has a eu passport. He's already been scouted for a seabl gig that was declined.

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paul  
Years ago

Wookiee, what makes you think they didnt target Bevo?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Duinker playing nznbl this season for Nelson

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bowtie  
Years ago

Pretty sure they didn't target Bevo because of the expenses Bevo needed covered, besides his coaching salary. He never made any secret of the fact he wouldnot take any steps backwards, financially, for his family. Nothing wrong with that.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So what is Bevo doing now? He can holdout all he wants but while holding out his income would be less and at the same time isn't developing his head coaching career.

Re: Cotter - all you need to do is make top 4 out of 8 teams, so in no way is he a success

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Was Bevo really the head coach of Shanghai Sharks last season?

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paul  
Years ago

"So what is Bevo doing now? He can holdout all he wants but while holding out his income would be less"

I doubt his income would be less, he has various jobs throughout Asia. Yes anon, he came in as a replacement coach at Shanghai last season when the coach (or a family member) got ill?

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