Years ago

Should Big V Div 2 Allow Imports

Should we allow imports at D2 level or use it for developing home grown talent

Topic #36593 | Report this topic

Years ago

I don't think so. It should be a focus on local kids and building a solid base on which to move to Div 1. Then you add imports in Div 1 to take your players and team to the next level.

Reply #517958 | Report this post

Years ago

Agree, no imports for D2, make it about local content.

Reply #517966 | Report this post

Years ago

Since clubs/ associations make teams it's about developing teams as well as developing individuals. If you build a team (including imports or not) that can then can grow and move up divisions, more power to you. I have no problems with imports being a part of that

Reply #517967 | Report this post

Years ago

Great topic, I would go with develop home grown players at the D2 level.

Reply #517969 | Report this post

Years ago

Blurry line here. What about paid players dropping from higher levels. Could have an import on stuff all money or a player getting decent coin to drop from state champ or seabl. Do you clasify these players as imports as well?

Reply #517986 | Report this post

Years ago

There are many things the Big V could do if they wanted to limit or control the level of competition.

The big question is why?

Is there a problem with D2 BigV at the moment.......?

They could limit the number of imports, they could limit court time of an import, they could limit the amount of cash incentive an import is paid to reduce the standard of import...

What do you see as the main issue with D2 @Baller?

Reply #517991 | Report this post

Years ago

My view was for no import was to have a base level that Aussie kids could get a chance at. In terms of paid players, if you've got the money to throw away on players in D2, then feel free to spend it on your Aussie content.

Just an idea....

Reply #518005 | Report this post

Years ago

I seem to remember this being discussed here before. Good discussion about the impact on Country teams of not having imports.

Reply #518015 | Report this post

Billy Hoyle  
Years ago

Why should Clubs at a lower level of big v be restricted on bringing in an import ? As has been discussed on here before, Imports do more than just play for their club, but promote heavily within the region, growing the identity of not only the club but the game as a whole.
Why is the onus of 'developing players' only on the D2 clubs. Does this mean all clubs in Div 1 or higher are allowed to get imports and therefore not have as much emphasis on developing junior players in their respective areas.
Not to mention, isn't the development of players exactly what the Youth League system is there for ??

Reply #518048 | Report this post

Years ago

A good import can help build a developing association big time. Not all about on court.

Reply #518211 | Report this post

Years ago

I tend to agree, it shouldn't be about the competition itself, rather the teams in it. Whether it is D1, D2 or whatever level, some Associations are small and D2 is the top of their tree. Getting an import means so much more to them in so many ways on and off the court. They can still develop their young players and an import can also help them too.

Reply #518225 | Report this post

Years ago

I find this discussion really interesting. Give the young kids some where to play! What happens to so many kids who play VJBL Boys Under 18's, where do they go? If look at the results of past winners of the VJBL Boys Under 18's how many have made it to youth league and how many graduate to their clubs senior teams. I know many of the real quality (top 10% maybe more) 18's go to college. How many clubs really have a pathway for their juniors to stay at the club and feel like they will be the next generation of seniors. Are the senior club and junior club too separated. Many senior club really rely on the junior programs.

If you look at the junior VJBL teams of the D2 Mens, U18 VC Oakleigh first time, Mornington getting better with depth, Coburg made VC also. Are Oakleigh and Coburg going to embrace these young players to keep them there and not lose their more talented players to D1 or higher clubs or football. A few of the other D2 clubs the junior programs are really starting to improve. What is more important for D2 teams, junior development throughout the club or winning a D2 banner? Winning a banner does that equate to more juniors to the club?

The VJBL in coperation with the BigV especially and BasketballVic need to look at how they do things for there needs to be a change of focus and outcomes. The BigV needs to work with the VJBL on future outcomes for basketball in Victoria. There is a need for the VJBL to be divided into four conferences for top tier clubs. One conferance for second tier clubs. Every Club that meets the top tier criteria* will have two teams in each age group, one playing in Vic Champ and one in Champ Reserve. Vic Champ is the best team and generally Champ Reserve bottom age, maybe development but up to the club.
Then you would have what you do now Regional for all club teams 3 and up.

How many kids changed clubs looking to go and play championship. How much work does a smaller club have to go through to hold onto a talented, well coached kid who believes he/she should be playing VC. If you had 40 teams divided into four conferences and the kids knew that every year the Number One Team was to play in Vic Champ would less players move or just same movement but the talent more evenly spread. Have a look at the figures of where VJBL clubs lose players to? Who gains and who has to work hard on a new group of domestic.

Back to the original question, is there a need for imports, maybe or maybe not. Will a D2 team get great benefits from the import? Will the import work closely with the club to develop the juniors at the club? Will he work at the domestic level getting more kids to join the Rep club? Will the juniors come and support the D2 team? Bringing their parents and friends to watch, making a night out or afternoon of it?
I think the bigger question maybe can we keep our talented youngsters playing for one club and this great sport of basketball. No need for open try outs to fill youth league spots, the talent will already be there.

*I have my ideas for the criteria, but another day.....

Reply #518284 | Report this post

Years ago

So many questions there big Shrek. Now take a breather and give us all some learned answers.

Reply #518297 | Report this post

Years ago

Did you know that up till the middle of February that 829 kids changed VJBL Clubs for the 2014/15 season? What is the cost of a clearance?

Huge movement down on the Peninsula. Clubs on the fringes of the VJBL metro area lose a lot of players but do not do well picking up players.

Dandenong had 64 apply to go there, while losing 34. Melbourne broke even 52 in and 52 out.

What has this to do with D2 imports, or clubs in general. You want real pathways for young players wanting to play for their senior teams and youth league teams. Imports can generate terrific community within clubs, but somebody needs to see the big picture. An import around local talent excellent idea.

Reply #518343 | Report this post

Years ago

VJBL clearance $25

$20,725 into the coffers if your numbers are correct.

Reply #518466 | Report this post

Years ago

Imports at that level are usually one of the biggest things to happen to the club!
If you went to one of these div 2 games and asked all the juniors that are there who they came down to watch, they'll reply 95% of the time with the imports name. Prime example would be Manny Hendrix at Western Port.

Also what about teams that are trying to move up a division in the coming years? E.g Casey & Shep last season.
They don't necessarily have the junior talent at this current time to play D1, without their imports they wouldn't have got a look, now they're in D1M they get a better range of players that will want to play and the team only gets better from there etc.

I'd agree with one of the points above and if anything I think Big V should limit it to 1 import per team or have a cash limit, but banning D2 clubs from imports wouldn't benefit anyone.

Reply #518869 | Report this post

Years ago

There is a limit of one import per team for D1 and D2. Only state champ can you have two.

Reply #518879 | Report this post

Years ago

1 per team for D1?
Didnt Mildura D1M have 2 either last season or season before?
Or do they have an exemption being country?

Reply #519044 | Report this post

Years ago

Anon, find the rule and paste it, don't make it up bruz!

Reply #519049 | Report this post

Years ago

Country teams could apply for an exemption. This has now been changed and thru don't be able to do it going forward. It's one of the reasons you won't see Gainey playing for Warnambool till he gets citizenship.

Reply #519469 | Report this post

gumboot slinger  
Years ago

Are Kiwis counted as imports or locals ?

Asking for a mate

Reply #519484 | Report this post

Years ago

Gainey is playing for Warrnambool... what are you on about.

Reply #519499 | Report this post

Years ago

Warnambool and Mildura have to apply for the second import.

As seen below at the 2015 BIG V AGM where Warnambool applied for this.

But hey keep slinging shit and assume you know everything!!

The current by laws allow for a second player who is not Australian to play in leagues lower then the ABA/Premier comp. However they must not have come to Australia with the sole purpose of playing basketball. Given a player like Gainey is already living here I would think he could apply for this exemption.

Motion for special business item:
- Import situation for lower leagues in rural country towns.
In the by-laws add a clause The player is registering as an additional import for a regional association where approval has been given
by the Big V CEO, upon annual application

- Country clubs can at times have difficulty attracting sufficient players to be competitive at a senior level, with the
addition of a second import with league approval to help competitiveness if needed.

Expected Outcome:
- The addition of to the by-laws which would allow a second import for regional associations if approved by
the Big V CEO.

Here is also a request from Mildura for 2015

Motion or Special Business Item:
That the clause 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 of the Big V By-laws be amended to read:
3.3.1 Each Premier Division team/club may register to play only two players who are not Australian
Citizens. Divisions below Premier Division may register only one player who is not
an Australian Citizen unless approved by the General Manager. For the Purposes of these by-laws
these players shall be considered restricted players. Any foreign (import) player
must have appropriate approvals from Basketball Australia.
3.3.2 At levels below ABA competition, and at the discretion of the General Manager, a player who is
not an Australian Citizen may be approved to be registered as a non-restricted player
or a second restricted player may be approved. In exercising the discretion the manager shall have
regard to all matters the General Manager thinks relevant, including but not limited to whether; The Player has not come to Australia for the express purposes of playing basketball and is
indeed here for other reasons (study, work, family or leisure) The recruitment of the player by the club will not unduly affect the balance of the competition. The club can field a competitive team.

The current by-law does not provide for discretion to allow a second import. It only allows for a second nonresident
if they are here for another reason.
This has recently been brought to the attention of the Mildura Basketball Association (MBA) by the Big V CEO and it
is clear that permission granted to the MBA to have a second import over the last few years has not been in
accordance with the by-law.
The MBA aspires to have a Div 1 team with only one import. However, Mildura does not have a readily available
talent pool to draw upon if more local players are needed. Whilst our junior program is strong we face a number of
hurdles in transitioning juniors to seniors. The greatest problem is the lack of tertiary education options in Mildura.
This results in many 18 year olds leaving the district to pursue education in Adelaide, Melbourne and other places.
The second problem is AFL. Lots of talented basketballers choose to play football over winter. The third problem is
that it is a large jump from u/18's to Div 1.
In relation to the last problem, we have this year entered a Youth League team to provide a pathway from juniors
to Div 1. Hopefully, we will see the benefits of that program over the next few years.
We require a second import for the 2015 season because of the lack of available talent.
The proposed change in the by law will still require Big V’s permission to have a second import but will allow Big V
to consider circumstances such as those currently faced by the MBA in deciding whether to give that permission.

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