jjforthewin
Years ago

Sydney Kings 2015/16 Discussion

Players Contracted:
Cadee (1yr left)
Madgen (1yr player option)
Garlepp (1yr left)
Brandt (2yrs left)
Duinker (1yr left - PLEASE be a team option!)

Players unsigned:
Childress*
Perry
Ellis^
White^
Joyce

*I think Cadee should start and instead we get an import centre

Topic #36640 | Report this topic


Benno  
Years ago

Ellis looked good near the end of the season. If you don't resign him id happily welcome him down south.

Reply #519417 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

No point getting an import centre if you have three bigs already signed, and Ellis. Garlepp seems serviceable enough with good options alongside him.

Import/Cadee
Madgen/White
Childress/minimum salary guy
Brandt/Ellis
Garlep/Duinker

Didn't see many Kings games, but White is a coach's type of player and seems decent as a budget inclusion to me.

I'd be looking for a good scoring point guard and then get a project as the other signing.

Had Perry been a better player and Childress played the full season, Sydney's roster this year just been would've challenged for fourth spot. From here on, the younger players will have more experience.

Reply #519420 | Report this post


jjforthewin  
Years ago

agreed isaac my only problem is White and Duinker I don't think they should be resigned because they where terrible for most of the season, trust me we need a proper big man to play in front of Brandt. As for white, we need some one who knows how to play basketball with out being scared.

Reply #519422 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

A lot of their issues came down to:

1. The lack of rebounding and rim protection (outside Childress) - Brandt and Duinker's inexperience showed this season, but they'll improve.

2. Excessive turnovers and lack of composure - it comes down to inconsistent production from their PGs. Cadee's a keeper, but he needs to be backing up a better import guard than Perry.

Import / Cadee
Madgen / Joyce*
Childress / White**
Garlepp / Ellis
Brandt / Duinker

*Politics.

**White finally showed towards the end of the season that he's more than a defender and glue guy. He's not a bad shooter, and hasn't been for a number of years. I don't know why he had been so afraid to shoot up until Madgen's injury.

Keep the same team, sans Perry, and with continuity you have a playoff contender, IMO.

Reply #519425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

White is a career 33.3% shooter from the field and 24.2% from 3.

Teams simply didn't guard him all year and he eventually hit some of those wide open shots.

I'll give credit to Joyce and White for their play towards the end of the season once the playoff race was over, although if either are signed again and have to play meaningful minutes in meaningful games the Kings won't be a playoff team.

Reply #519427 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

A big part of shooting is confidence. Nobody hits 6/8 threes in a professional game without ability and confidence.

Just ask Scott Christopherson... (.456 3P% in his senior year of college)

Reply #519429 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

14/15 Kevin White Stats:

11 Oct - 26 Dec: 0/12 from three

31 Dec - 15 Feb: 14/28 from three

...just sayin'.

Reply #519430 | Report this post


Luke  
Years ago

I would pick up more of a scoring and more composed import PG over perry, keep white, 50/50 with Joyce, then keep the rest of the team and I can see us competing for 4th spot next season if Josh can stay healthy over 90% of the season

Reply #519434 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think if they can re-sign Childress then they just need a quality, experienced PG and a good back-up 2-3 who can shoot. Guys like Brandt, Ellis and Cadee are only going to get better, and I think Garlepp will improve his rebounding, so stick with the same core but improve at PG most importantly.

Reply #519438 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It was a weird season as it seemed that when Childress played the rest of the team didn't shoot well from 3.

In quite a few games when Childress didn't play the Sydney role players like Cadee, White, etc shot really well from 3.

In isolation I'd say if Childress is signed that they need to put better 3pt shooting around him.

If Garlepp adds a knock down 3pt shot to his game he becomes a pretty special NBL player.

If White shoots like he did the second half of the season he is a pretty handy player. If he shoots like the first half of the season he is a huge negative. The coaching staff that see him everyday in practice probably have a better idea of what type of shooter he is.

Reply #519441 | Report this post


jjforthewin  
Years ago

did any one else hear the rumours about some thing good happening with the sydney kings?

Reply #519443 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If they get Childress back they need a genuine back-up SF so Childress isn't so over-burdened on offence. I daresay it would need to be an upgrade on Joyce.

Reply #519447 | Report this post


Lolzguyz  
Years ago

Joyce isn't the back up for Childress white Is

Reply #519448 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

White & Joyce? Are people seriously suggesting they deserve to be playing in the NBL. If so then the league is becoming more of a joke than I'd thought possible.

Duinker was rubbish and it's a shame that he's been signed for 2 years. I hope the Kings have an out clause since if they go around another season with a scrawny kid like Brandt and Duinker the dud as their centre combination then they will be looking at being contenders for the spoon yet again & this time they possibly won't have the Hawks to share the fight for last place.

Reply #519449 | Report this post


master chief  
Years ago

I think cadee eventually needs to be given a chance to start.

Reply #519450 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Brandt & Duinker weren't exactly rebounding and rim protecting monsters.

I would have preferred to see more of this lineup.

Perry 1/2(replaced next season by a Roteni Clarke clone)
Cadee 1/2
Madgen 2/3
Childress 4
Garlepp 5

A little undersized although Childress was at his best driving past bigger/slower players and same for Garlepp.


Reply #519453 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

I think it's asking too much of Garlepp to play heavy minutes at the 5.
I'd be looking for a solid 5 guy who can be part of a 3 man rotation through the 4 & 5 spots with Tom & Josh.
Yes having a quick front line gives you some mismatches but I think the negatives outweigh the positives, based on what I saw of the Kings this season.

Reply #519463 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Other than Childress, the rest were fairly weak rebounders. Garlepp ranked second for the Kings with 4.1 RPG in 28 MPG.

For total blocks in the NBL, Childress was 3rd (in two-thirds of a season) and Garlepp was 7th, Ellis 11th.

But if they've locked in with Garlepp, Brandt and Duinker, there's less room to move unless they are loose with budgeting.

Reply #519474 | Report this post


JMc  
Years ago

That set of bigs from this season have shown they just arent good enough rebounders and rim protectors.
I'd sign an import 5 (Ibekwe has been fantastic this season). Duinker was a serviceable big and should get picked up by someone else but just doesn't fit here with my vision.
Give Cadee another chance as a starting PG and get rid of Joyce and White who have been tried before but produced little. Getting a young aussie guard from college would be nice as would the return of Childress.

Reply #519475 | Report this post


gumboot slinger  
Years ago

Kevin Braswell ?

Veteran PG . ANBL experience

Cadee & Garlepps game will grow after a season of NZBL hoops

Reply #519482 | Report this post


swish  
Years ago

Kings have a quality young Aussie point guard (Cadee) who has had a go at being the starter in Adelaide but now might be ready for that job, and they have a quality Aussie shooting guard in Madgen. Problem might be they lack to "I'm THE man" swagger of an Ervin.
Garlep is a solid back up center or power forward.
They need a BIG presence. A Centre who is a scorer and a defencive force.
I don't see what Ellis adds at all. Never seen such a soft big guy.
Brandt is a solid back up big, Duniker looks out of his dept - might as well play Ben Allen.
Joyce and White are good end of the bench guys.
The need Childress, plus a import center and marquee combo guard.

Reply #519500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Duinker won't be back. Team option on his contract and they aren't interested in picking it up.

They want an experienced import PG to run the show and are in the market for an Aussie big - maybe one currently playing overseas.

White won't be back - far too limited at this level. Joyce did enough in the final few games to suggest he might be worth a flyer as the 10th man/energy guy.

As suggested above, a backup 2/3 with range is a high priority.

The issue is Childress. Not a done deal by any means and there are no guarantees that this ownership would be willing to pay the kind of money that it might take.

Reply #519504 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

OP - if you're going to copy other posters posts word for word from other forums, you might want to explain what all the ^ mean...

did any one else hear the rumours about some thing good happening with the sydney kings?

This seemed to have gone through to the keeper with no replies, I haven't heard anything, what were the rumours?

@Isaac et al who think it's ok to persist with Duinker and White... Nope... White actually made some shots at the end of the season, but ask anyone who has seen the majority of Kings games the last season or two, and they will say that he is a liability. Left WIDE open and consistently missed makeable shots on a regular basis, his defence dropped off most of the season and was getting more bench time with Joyce the preferred player, and in all honesty, who probably did a better job...

Duinker, I don't care what the +/- says, is a dud and needs to be cut for someone who knows what they're doing. Having both he and Brandt, undersized against the competition for their position, as I stated at the start of the season, was a huge mistake. Brandt took time to find his feet, which is understandable and when he came back from injury, had like 10rebounds in 8 minutes and then followed up with some other solid efforts on the boards. Brandt is worth sticking with, but Duinker needs to be cut (or have an option not picked up).

@swish - I can see how Ellis might have flown under most peoples radar, but the kid is all hustle and has really stepped it up in his limited minutes (a sign that maybe Cotter isn't a fan?) but the amount of times he's pulled down the big rebound or gotten a key block or steal this season, for those paying attention, has been a great value... If he can keep working on his fitness and his outside shot to be a real threat, then I think he's a key player for the core group moving forward...

Need an experienced veteran PG (I'm already on the record with being happy if Markovic returns) and a quality 5-man, which one an import is I have no clue, it all depends on availability, but not many legit Aussie bigs floating around, there might be one with a current black eye that could maybe be tempted back? heh... If Chill can be tempted back (I'm not counting my chickens, obviously) would love someone like either Coenraad or Steindl for the 3...

Marko/Import PG / Cadee
Madgen / Joyce? (I think he proved himself as a 10th man)
J-Chill / Coenraad/Steindl
Garlepp / Ellis
Import/Jules/AJ / Brandt

looks pretty nice to me...

Reply #519508 | Report this post


SO  
Years ago

Hi. My two cents are:
- Definitely no Duinker or White.
- Get back AJ Ogilivy & have Brandt back him up
- Gun US PG needed
- Need Aussie good power fwd backup for Childress (assuming he resigns).

Also players aside, the Kings biggest issue should be working with NSW Govt to find somewhere decent to play in the future. If they are forced to stay at the SSC for long then Kings future would be in serious doubt.

Reply #519524 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

I think you will struggle if you see Cadee as a formidable cog in your progression. He'll only ever be a serviceable back up pg in the NBL.

Reply #519525 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Wookiee, I was assuming they'd be reluctant to pay out Duinker.

Coenraad has waited years to get his starting spot after Saville's retirement and I reckon he'd very begrudgingly come off the bench now. Good rebounding support though.

Reply #519526 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

Isaac: some people (including Reply #519504 a few posts up) suggest that there was a team option for the 2nd year of Duinker's contract. That might just be wishful thinking though given his performance.

Reply #519527 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think given the coach's relationship with NSW juniors I could see him adding Daniel Trist (College Senior) and trying to get Djeric from Townsville.

If AJ returns, then that would be a huge bonus, but if not then Duinker isn't the worst back up big in the league.

I also think a combo guard for the PG spot, similar to Jermaine Beal, would be better than a full time PG as I think Caddee is on the rise, while Madgen is getting old.

PG - Cadee / Djeric
SG - Import / Madgen
SF - Childress / Ellis
PF - Garlepp / Trist
C - Ogilvy / Brandt / Duinker (if not Ogilvy)

Reply #519531 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

I'd keep Brandt as a starter, unless you can get a Ogilvy type, i didnt see him play heaps but i liked what i saw, he seemed to be a tough player who worked hard inside, which is what you need from a C, a bit of a Reesy mould.

Id use my import spot on a combo guard, id try and find someone 6'5 plus if possible, who plays de, moves the ball, and a decent shooter, at worse Stephen Dennis or Josh Pace is somewhat of that mould and did ok, and may be able to get him at a decent price, which may be important if your spending big on a Childress level import.

It gives you flexibility to play both Cadee, Madgen 25-30 mins with the import often sharing the back court with them, also allows the import to back up Childress (or import SF) at the sf spot, which was a bit of a weakness of them, as the 3 guards could all play together.

Reply #519536 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

Brandt/???Gruber
Garlepp/Ellis
Childress/??Henry
Madgen/??Djeric
Dennis/Cadee

Is something like id be aiming for.

The ?? guys are the mould/price of player id be aiming for as id say Childress/import sf will take around 1/3rd of the cap so will need to have some good value for money guys off the bench, but not overly fussed who fills the spot as my main 7 would play the bulk of the minutes.

Reply #519540 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

The Kings have used the Team Option path when signing new players recently, sure, it's wishful thinking, but not to the point of being irrational...

We saw last season what happened when we didn't have any proper on court leadership... They were a complete shambles a lot of the time and really only got their leads through some tough D, Childress amazement and some uncharacteristic solid outside shooting...

We NEED veteran leadership on court... a PROPER point guard... a 6'5 combo who can shoot would be nice, but last time I checked, they're still one of the more rare import finds...

We NEED a legit 5 man... If we go with Brandt as a starter, we're putting ourselves back 1-2 seasons in challenging for playoff/finals chances... He got pushed around and bullied a lot during most of the last season, if we run that risk again with him as a starter, we'll be in the same spot this time next season... I'm not saying that he can't/won't develop, I'm saying that it's too soon to rely on him to be a starter on a team that will make a challenge in the playoffs...

One of the biggest criticisms last season was the bench depth... You're not going to improve that with Cadee and Brandt starting...

will need to have some good value for money guys off the bench, but not overly fussed who fills the spot as my main 7 would play the bulk of the minutes.

Did you not pay attention to the season just gone? That doesn't sound familiar at all? How does that compare with playoff teams that are nearly 10 players deep who are contributing solid minutes to rest their starters to allow them to play harder, not longer?

I've never minded Leon Henry, he's always been that hard worker type that can penetrate and also hit the outside shot when open... Would just need to keep him away from the Sydney nightlife, perhaps... Djeric on the other hand, quite apart from his comments about his hatred of the Kings and that he wold never play for them, when he signed with the Hawks, he's a bit of a douche and I think it would be good to aim higher...

Would love to be able to sign Trist, but I think it would really be between him and Ellis, I don't think both would be able to be fit in...

Isaac, I get your point about Coenraad deserving his starting spot, I guess I was thinking that to actually get a team that IS deep enough, you're going to need guys that could possibly start on other teams, but for one reason or another, would be willing to discard the desire of a label as starter, for quality minutes and still an important role on a team that could work towards a championship...

Reply #519559 | Report this post


Green 76  
Years ago

I think one of White or Joyce has to go for a decent back up 2/3. I don't mind keeping one as 10th man but they both shouldn't be starting games. Possibly Leon Henry or Everard Bartlett? I feel more comfortable about Cadee starting instead of Brandt so would get a good Import Centre and get rid of Duinker but Cadee needs a decent back up Point Guard behind him. Possibly Rhys Carter or Daniel Dillon so would go for something like this. Ellis is worth keeping at the right price but would go him or Trist

Cadee/Dillon
Madgen/White
Childress/Henry
Garlepp/Trist or Ellis
Import/Brandt

Reply #519560 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How good is Madgen?

He appears to be an extremely hard worker that maximises every once of ability that he has.

Is he a 2nd option on a championship calibre team or a high impact 6th man type that scores in bunches?


Reply #519571 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

Before suggesting all these upgrades to the team, everyone should keep on kind there's a little restriction called the 'salary cap'.

Serious question: was Duinker really that bad? I'm not suggesting he was a standout or showed massive potential, but my observations clearly don't match the general sentiments of this thread. What were his shortcomings?

Reply #519579 | Report this post


buckets  
Years ago

Just get Childress to bring some of his NBA buddies over here and we will be all set. Heck, he was drafted in the same year as Dwight Howard.... Im sure they are good mates…… Howard would make a good starting C for the Kings.

Shawn Livingston at PG would be nice too. Im sure Childress can pull some strings ;)

Reply #519581 | Report this post


buckets  
Years ago

That would make the team:
Livingston (35) / Cadee (5)
Madgen (30)/ Perry (5) / Cadee (5)
Childress (35) / White (5)
Garlepp (25) / Ellis (10) / Trist (5)
Howard (40) / Brandt (only needed if DH fouls off)

Reply #519582 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Before suggesting all these upgrades to the team, everyone should keep on kind there's a little restriction called the 'salary cap'.

I don't think that anything suggested (at least before your post, not what buckets has just posted :) ) has been anything unrealistic... Outside of Childress, Madgen would be the highest paid player I would imagine, and no-one suggest coming in would compete with that...

Say we could hold onto Chill for another season and we managed to get AJ or Jules back... We could go a cheaper PG option, Markovic, even Sanders if we wanted to go import path... If you're after a pass first floor leader that can defend the crap out of the opposition, you could do a lot worse... then you've got Madgen on possibly $100K+ (he cashed in at the height of his skill/popularity, for sure), Cadee, Garlepp, Brandt wouldn't be on that much... You could get Ellis at a decent price, Perth seem full up at his position and I think that would be the only other significant option for him, otherwise Trist on a rookie deal... You'd want a bit left over for a decent SF back up, but Joyce would no doubt pay for dorrito chips or something as a 10th man...

Chill or OS Aussie big would be included with marque'ish deal, so it would fit, it's just whether the owners are willing to put the cash in, which has been a sticking point in the past...

It's all certainly more reasonable than some of the suggestions that posters have been making for the 36ers...

Serious question: was Duinker really that bad? I'm not suggesting he was a standout or showed massive potential, but my observations clearly don't match the general sentiments of this thread. What were his shortcomings?

Yes. Yes he was. Got lost on D, regularly fumbled the ball around the basket, sometimes couldn't even make a simple layup... Should have been at least smashing the boards ala Gruber used to do, but couldn't even do that...

Reply #519584 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

buckets, three imports probably the least of your worries there!

Reply #519600 | Report this post


Harry Hackrein  
Years ago

Kings awards night tonight.

Reply #519615 | Report this post


captain obvious  
Years ago

what about

Livingston / Cadee
Madgen / Perry
Childress / White
Ogilvy / Ellis / Garlepp
Howard / Harrington

Reply #519617 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

"I don't think that anything suggested (at least before your post, not what buckets has just posted :) ) has been anything unrealistic... Outside of Childress, Madgen would be the highest paid player I would imagine, and no-one suggest coming in would compete with that... "

Wookie, any team that has Childress, Ogilvy, Madgen, Garlepp, Cadee (he's fairly well paid) and another import (unless it's budget) is pushing the limit. To add Coenraad or Steindl - as others have posted - is getting farfetched, IMO.

"It's all certainly more reasonable than some of the suggestions that posters have been making for the 36ers..."

Picking up Motum and Johnson is about as lucrative as the 36ers will ever recruit for the foreseeable future. I don't endorse fanatical suggestions that the 36ers need further upgrades.

Reply #519623 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

Shawn Livingston? You mean the guy that's about to win a championship with the Warriors? Yeah, good luck with that.

Reply #519625 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

Haha... I didn't even see you had Dwight Howard on there :P

Reply #519626 | Report this post


jumpshot  
Years ago

Import SG/Cadee
Madge/Corletto
Garlepp/Foreman
Childress/Ellis
Ogilvy/Brandt

I follow the Kings closely and Perry, White and Joyce are rubbish. They only score during the preseason and when the game is a dead rubber, against the bottom teams.

Reply #519629 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

WookieE, any team that has Childress, Ogilvy, Madgen, Garlepp, Cadee (he's fairly well paid) and another import (unless it's budget) is pushing the limit. To add Coenraad or Steindl - as others have posted - is getting farfetched, IMO.

If you re-read, I DID say a cheaper PG option if we could get one of our OS local bigs... Tail end of his career, coming back home, possibly no re-signing up north if the team makes it through to the next season, Markovic I think is still a good option, but failing that, I still think Sanders would be a good option too... Familiar with most of the team, a known commodity, great D, pass first option but improved his options when the opposition left him wide open to shoot from the outside...

I didn't expect Cadee to be overly well paid enough to negate bringing in another quality back up, but I still think if it's possible to free up some salary cap by having AJ/Jules or Childress as a marque option, they would be able to get that extra strength backup player...

AJ or Jules: $220,000
Childress: $150,000 (base within cap)
Madgen/Garlepp/Cadee: $350,000 together
Brandt: $60K?
Ellis: $60K?
Sanders: $60K?

That's $100K left for the last two players, split that 70/30 between a decent SF back up and Joyce Jnr, and that's even without wriggle room...

If local big options are any more than that, it's not worth it, just throw more money at a local PG and get an import 5 for good money... That being said, there's another Sydney born big OS that has been struggling lately (not that AJ is really lighting it up) who might be looking to redeem himself a bit, maybe build his profile for one last chance at some decent euro dollars? He's what, 30 now and just signed to an Iranian Super League team, but you never know...

Hell, if we can't get a legit 5, we COULD run smaller... Peach and Gibbo are out of contract, I'm sure they could split $300K between them nicely enough to reunite with Cadee... Peach could get back to Sydney, technically closer to family, Gibbo always seems to have quite a few friends here after the games as well...

Gibbo[10] / Cadee[5]
Madgen[10] / Joyce[3?]
Chill[10] / Coenraad[6]/Steindl[6]
Peach[9] / Ellis[5]
Garlepp[7] / Brandt[3]

Looks pretty workable to me :)


Picking up Motum and Johnson is about as lucrative as the 36ers will ever recruit for the foreseeable future. I don't endorse fanatical suggestions that the 36ers need further upgrades.

They're out there though, plus adding DJ full time on TOP of Motum, as well as the Boomers, they're retained...

Reply #519644 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

ok, so I thought when I found out Madge had an option for next season, that heading off to Europe might be on the cards, but reading his get well messages from his shoulder recon surgery, there was this from Mr Dunn in relation to Madge missing the Kings Awards dinner

Next year MVP big fella foget about Europe it is overrated

Hopefully reading too much into it, and was wondering if he's recovering and rehabbing for the next few months, whether he would still pursue that path or maybe try and get another stand out season to maximise his chances...

Reply #519676 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mark my words, next season the Kings may or may not be a playoff team.

Reply #521748 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Garlep and Ellis seriously need to get fit if they are to be part of a contending team.

Reply #521751 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lose Duinker and keep White, he led the team and worked his but off in those lasf few games and had heart.

Reply #521752 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Mark my words, next season the Kings may or may not be a playoff team.

truer words have never been spoken... More decisive ones have, but still... way to keep it vague this early in the off season :)

Garlep and Ellis seriously need to get fit if they are to be part of a contending team.

Garlepp was one of the few players who worked all last off season on his game, and I was pleased to see that Cody came into this last season in a bit more game shape too... They weren't always the ones first up the floor, but they improved, hopefully more steps are taken this off season...

Lose Duinker and keep White, he led the team and worked his but off in those lasf few games and had heart.

Thanks Mr/Mrs White, but no, he didn't... Unless you're counting missed wide open 3pt shots? I've been a fan of giving Kev a chance the last couple of seasons, his D was stepping up, wanted to give him a chance to get his shooting confidence, but he went missing for a large portion of most of the season just gone, and I think enough is enough...

Reply #521788 | Report this post




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