A more useful discussion would be a general thread about how people think a game should be called at the end of a game, whether deliberate fouling should be stamped out thru rule changes (for example, last 3 minutes, if in the bonus fouls result in a free throw and possesion).

Issac

After reading all these pathetic posts from 'asiseeit', could you delete his threads and/or posts about reffing. If refs read this crap it will only worsen the situation with reffing here in SA as has already been stated.

People like this shouldn't have a voice on a respectable forum like this - it just brings everyone else down. I don't mind controversial posts, but when there is no substance to ludicrous claims, then please just hit the 'delete' button!

Thanks

People on this forum need to understand that just sitting behind a computer bagging some ref and calling them biased and what have you is not doing anything for the game. As Isaac stated above "Yet, if the information from referees who have given it up because of incessant and petty criticism is true (and I honestly believe that it is)" why would we want to continue to rip into these refs?

All of this petty bagging is going to mean we lose more refs, then people will bitch that there aren't any refs for the games. Here's a thought: Stop bitching about the refs, there out there doing us all a favour. If you want to bitch about the refs - do something about it and YOU go and become a ref.

I to have spoken to a lot of referrees about why they have quit. Its seems to me that we have brought in zero tolerance to stop this abuse. I have seen some refferres miss use this. Not many but some. My thoughts are theres not enough education going into junior referrees and this needs to be address quickly. I dont mean level 0 or 1 course I mean pay the UIC on a friday night and Saturday morning more money to evaluate games and give dirrection to the young referrees coming up. I beleive that most of the evaluating is done at ABL level thats good for the top referres to be coached but what about the kids I think they should have it more. So they grow nowing that what they are doing is right. I've heard people say well my partner helps when I've ref but thats good that some has taken an interst but thats the same as a captain talking to the other players. They can only see bits and pieces and if 1 ref is watching another while refing this will be missed. Thats why I think Education is what is needed badly for our great game to grow.

Nice call Isaac.

Never ever ever have I seen a referee change his call because some whiney player, coach or parent has bitched.

As I see it, if you play good solid defense, play with the right attitude, don't take yourself too seriously, it all seems to work out fine.
If you(the player) are continually complaining about poor umpiring it usually means 9/10 that your an average player that has never been 1. taught the correct defensive techniques
2. too lazy a player to work hard to improve your ineffiencies
or 3. not smart enough to change your game to fit the way the game is being called.

Why don't players bitch about teammates who don't play team defense or throw shite passes?

Can you imagine Paul Bell screaming at a teammate "You stooopid Muth*Fa***er why don't you learn to pass the F***king ball, You couldn't play social ball , you C**t!"

Why don't players bitch at coaches when they run the wrong defense or sub inappropriately?

Work on your game, not the referee's.

I left the "Sturt mayhem" topic up despite serious lack of evidence from Panther and anyone else, mainly to humour his little anti-Sturt fetish, but also because selective deletion gives way to "bias" calls against me which are really boring.

I will leave the Sailors topic up and hopefully people will see the yawning otter and let it go.

It's been a nasty couple of weeks for forum-reading refs unfortunately. Hopefully we'll be back on track and a grand final isn't decided by one could-go-either way call from a ref and start it all up again!

I must say I am surprised at the contraversy my Thread started. I will say again I by no way meant to denegrate a ref. I appreciate what they do and have never sworn at a ref or shouted abuse in anyway shape or form I have never told my child that the game was lost by an unfair call. I am just a father who noticed a very rough game that should have been more fouls or at least the coaches spoken to about the hardness of the game. To people saying god it is only under 10's they are right and I personally dont expect a child to have to see a dentist after a under 10's game. If there was "Bias" or bad reffing my comments were only to try and find a way on a public forum of my peers to maybe sort it so there can be no question of Bias. My first option was to have ref's go to ref another ground. Ok maybe not possible. But how about the clubs play at an away ground I would personally like to drive to marion to face the bear cats and so on and so on. I will say now I appologise in whole to any Ref I have offended or any player. I am new to the sport and even though my Son loves the sport I am still as a concerned parent worried about his safety and will voice my concerns. I know now that this is the incorrect forum to do so and thank the coach of the Sturt under tens for pointing it out.

good call isaac, i put my hand up as getting a touch carried away with referees at times, and i certainly realise the need for the all umpires to remain in the game.
keep up the good work zebras!!

Why is it people can only see a cheap negative. if sturt and South were to face they could play at wayville if south and tigers at pasadena. west and mavericks at hillcrest.

Its pretty bloody simple. you dont have to go to the extreme it just makes you look stupid. And your right I dont know enough about the rules. Hence I will ask a ref or a coach at the right time what was that call for what did it mean. Its how you learn. I never said it would work I gave it as an option. And I will say I have been a Soccer ref and you do cop abuse but if you love the game you let it roll and the easiest way to stop it is call everything. the last thing a parent or supporter wants be is ejected from the ground or have a Tech. There was a very good ref at Port Adelaide. we were facing another team not Bearcats and when the opposition bench were swearing and telling the kids to Foul he stepped in told them to be quiet or leave he then told the coach to get them to be quiet The coach then told his players to calm down and his bench to keep it shut. So its not like it cant happen.

Win or Lose,

I have a better idea. How about you find out about the rules before you have a go at 8 year old kids or come up with idea's that are logistical nightmares. Yeah it might work for 1 week. But over a 22 game season the logistic's are rediculous. And if you hadn't noticed we struggle to have programming done now.

The quicker that you work out the you are the problem and not anything ao anyone else you will continue to prove that you are the kind of parent that

1/ Should never bew allowed on a committee.

2/ Who's kid should never be in State, ITC or div 1 teams.

3/ Should be made to sit in the car park while your kid players.

Crows vs Port at Telstra Dome...?

Why on earth should clubs have to play away from the stadium they call home, whether they can draw profits from canteens and bars and so on? Seriously, I think you're a bit offtrack with that thinking!

That's definitely not the key to your perceived problem.

different anonymous. I can only say that attacking someone personally only shows a very shallow person. I am sure If you had children or grand children and they were hurt you would react. You seem to call someone who looks after their child a bad parent. It amazes me that in world were children are put in cardboard boxes and have lit cigerettes extingushed on their back that you would see a parent looking after their child as a bad thing grow up think before you speak all of you and get a life Win or lose just like your name says its not if you win or lose the game but how you play it.

i havnt played ball for a few years, and played only about 10 games over here in 18 div 1 & 2. but before i moved here, i was reported in my local comp for abusing an umpire.but instead of suspending me, which would have made me ineligable for my rep team, they sentenced me to ref for a whole season, 3 nights a week. lets just say i did get a new found respect for refs. i cant say i never abused any refs ever again, but there was no swearing, and only a small percentage of the dummy spits as there was before my "punishment". maybe the league over here should look into doing something like that. Coz i hated it, and it worked.

So mothers voice,

Do you think that having a kid accidentally run into a kid is anything like having a kid burnt by cigarette's or sleeping in a card board box. What the...???

And Win or Lose was the one harrassing a young referee on a public forum, not me! In fact I was defending the said child. As well as the 8 year olds Win or Lose was having a go at as deliberatly attacking another player.

Get you facts straight!

My comment was that Win or Lose was coming up with idea's that are rediculous to fix a problem that they have with a referee from their own club being biased against their own club.

Oh my God different anonymous the ref was in his forties he was not a southern player I never said one bad word towards the junior coach so um i think it is you who should get their facts straight and only not to single out the Sturt player who elbowed my sun I would post the child picture in which you can clearly see the boy off the ball behind the play elbow my sun so in the words of many others get stuffed

sorry should be junior ref and Son not Sun

Farnsworth made an excellent point and my comments expressed herein are about junior basketball only. Players should learn to adapt to what the officials are calling and concentrate on their own game for once.
Too many times I have seen some arrogant little upstart yell at a ref due to his own ignorance of the rule and the fact that he thinks he is the greatest player to grace the courts.
To all those division 1 and sometimes 2 players, GET OVER YOURSELVES. Unless you are a highly qualified referee you do not know what you are talking about and therefore you should keep your mouth shut about decisions made in the game by these people. You certainly wouldn't like it if the umpire started abusing you for every shot or pass you missed in the game. Just like you, officials are still learning the rules and can sometimes get things wrong. Funnily enough they're human too. They just have a thicker skin and don't go having a bitch or a hissy fit if things don't go their way. They're not out to get you, the majority don't even know you so lay off them for once in your sorry lives.
As for the parents... I can understand that you think your child is the best player in the world and that's great because you don't yell at them for doing wrong but umpires have parents too and if that was your child out on the court being verbally abused by another adult, how would you feel? It's wrong and if the only way to stop that is to throw the abuser out of the game I wholeheartedly agree with it. This isn't football and the umpires out at junior basketball aren't adults, they're teenagers and kids, just like your own. So please think before you speak as you so like to tell your own children, if you haven't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
To the coaches, same goes, if you don't like the umpiring, let it go. If you have a real issue, for example you actually know a rule that has in your eyes been wrongly interpreted by the junior officials in your game, call a timeout and speak to them in a courteous and calm manner and ask them to PLEASE look at it. Don't get angry or demand that they change everything for you as it probably won't get you anywhere you want to be. Officials have been taught at a very early stage in their training that if a coach does not approach them in the right way they should ignore said coach, tell the UIC or simply give out a technical. This also applies when a coach is constantly badgering them from the sidelines. It is probably hard to give up old habits but considering the alternatives it is worth the try.
Just remember that it is winter and very cold outside. Except for Hillcrest however, then it's cold inside as well.
I write this as a former player, a coach, an umpire and a spectator.

I coached tonight and questioned a ref about a call - he admitted to me after the game when i brought it up during my pat on the back to him and teh other ref, and he admitted it was a "soft call". He has done himself a huge favor in my eyes cos he had the decency to admit that he screwed up.

At the time i let it go, rather than stress out about it, and life went on.

I have two points to make about this thread:
1 - NEVER underestimate a parents love for their child. Love is blind!

2 - Accept that there are children out there who MAY deliberately set out to injury other players, and on the other hand, there are kids who don't understand the rules and get so caught up in chasing the basketball, they forget how to play nicely.

I remember playing my 1st school game (U8's???) and getting a foul for shepherding the opposition off the ball. I always thought you should run in numbers and back up your team mates...

Psychology can explain a lot of the comments in this post, including mine :P

Ever seen an umpire change his or her call after the decision has been made ? no, neither have i, not even in soccer.



I am relatively new to basketball myself and admitt that even after 2 years of my boy playing i still get calls wrong....i'm learning all the time and am enjoying the experience. However i do come across the occasional umpire who makes a mistake or a child from an opposing team who plays the game a little ' rougher ' than everyone else. In one occasion while my son was shooting from a foul call a player suggested to my boy that he might be his father ( think about that )I was obviously outraged at this particular tactic and voiced my objections to the umpire only to be told that he hadnt heard the comment and that he wouldnt allow it from an adult let alone a child of 12....what can you do, but sit back down and get over it.

Win or loose i understand where your coming from and to an extent sympathise, however mate your fighting a loosing battle. My suggestion to you is to enjoy the fact that your boy is doing something that he obviously loves and when he comes home and says he doesn't want to play anymore because i get hurt, be supportive of his decision. I'll say now he never will, because he enjoys it. I know the southern coach concerned and my boy was even coached by him, and he'll get so much out of being coached by him , that he'll be playing long after his next heart attack

If you want a way to vent your frustration at a ref buy an exercise book and write it down in there, not on the internet. Posting up ignorant opinions only serves to undermine the person you are writing it about. That's childish and not what this website is about. It seems that all i've done since I started posting on this site is defend referees, I haven't really had a chance to look at anything else.
If your going to post something put a name up with it. It doesn't have to be a real name, jst a nic like every one else. Being anonymous is cowardly if you ask me.
When I got frustrated at referees (and I used to) my mum said try it. So I did and it is a hard and thankless job.
So I issue out a challenge to all ref bashers : If you think you can do a better job, TRY IT.
It would improve our numbers and stop the abuse at the same time.

Misty that is true what you have said. And venting your frustration on the internet is not the most mature thing to do. But saying that it is a "thankless job" is wrong. After the game every player on the court walks up to the referee and says thank you for your work (or at least i do). They are paid to do this job and it is as much fun for them as it is for the players. Saying that a referees job is hard and thankless is a big deterant for all the young players who would like to be referees.

refs do not deserve half the treatment they get from players coaches and spectators but they should go bak to training in the off season to touch up on their skills so they dont make those "mistakes"