Years ago

War Cry Dance by AFL Star

Someone may be able to post the video, which I loved by the way, however there has been much media reaction over the War Cry Dance by Adam Goodes in the Sydney v Carlton AFL game during it's indigenous round so I though I would give this my humble opinion.

As I have stated, I loved the dance, it reminded me of the Hakka we see often in rugby and international basketball and I do recall some experiments in the past where Aussie teams have tried to replicate such a cultural dance in sport, with various success.

Since last night the media has gone nuts over this, some people love it, others see it insightful and in some media it has been perceived as dividing or even confronting.

I didn't find it that way, I do however see how in the moment the immediate crowd reaction at the stadium would have been 50/50 with security sent into the Carlton zone just to settle things down.

Does this suggest we as a nation still don't understand our country's heritage and does this show some of us as immature that our immediate reaction is one of suspicion or hatred towards something we may not quite understand or has Adam just done a spur of the moment dance that he may have quelled given the benefit of hindsight?

I don't think he would have changed his mind and his post game speech suggests one of his team mates also had a dance up his sleeve, but didn't get a goal so could celebrate it during the game, that is a shame as I would have loved to see what he came up with...

Racial or religious celebrations in soccer and perhaps other sports in some countries is taboo because it has caused crowd riots in the past, I get that and I know why it is this way in cultural melting pots like Europe for example.

I for one do not want to see us go this way however, I don't see this as anything more than a player expressing his passion for his culture and pride for his nation. Let's embrace it for what it is and applaud his action I say, just my opinion...

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Years ago

It was nothing more than an attempt by a player to stick it up opposition supporters who had been giving it to him all night. He kicked a goal, felt good and thought it would be ok to use the indigenous banner to give some back to the tools in the crowd perhaps overstepping the mark.

What I don't understand is that Goodes thinks people are booing him because he is a proud aboriginal...... THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Some people just don't like him and that has nothing to do with his background. Does this mean any player who is booed or given crap by the crowd should scream racial abuse whatever background they have? Or is this reserved for poor Adam?

Reply #530567 | Report this post

Years ago

His intention was to show pride in his heritage, but I think it was a poorly thought-out attempt to do so. Not the first time Goodes has shown a lack of understanding of others. This is very different to the Hakka because:
1) The Hakka is performed before the contest,
2) The Hakka is performed as a group, not as a solo dance
3) The Hakka is not a celebration
4) this doesn't have a long tradition as it was a newly-invented war cry, supposedly inspired by other war cries.

but most importantly,
5) The Hakka is directed at opponents, not fans

Directing this at opposition fans after a goal, in a manner that can be so easily interpreted as aggressive, at a time when the opposition is already being thrashed, is clearly going to be interpreted as a taunt and will result in inciting opposition fans. It is amazing that Goodes can't see that there would be a backlash to it.

If he wanted to represent his indigenous heritage while taunting opposition fans, then fair enough. Go for it, but expect some fiery responses. If he wanted to represent his indigenous heritage while not aggravating anyone, then it was a foolish move.

War cries are typically performed as a group to arouse aggression, strengthen bonds within the group, and to intimidate or taunt the opposition. The question he should be asking himself is, "is it appropriate to perform a solo war cry directed at fans mid-contest as a form of celebration?". Just because something has indigenous associations performed during Indigenous round doesn't automatically make it appropriate, as seems to be his fall-back excuse.

"It was a war cry so it would have been silly to do it to my own supporters." -- Goodes

Any less silly than directing a war cry at opposition fans who are not involved in the competition? Do the All Blacks direct the Hakka at opposition fans? War cries are directed at adversaries. I wonder what would have happened if he chose to direct it at his actual opponents. He could've otherwise chosen to direct it at nobody in particular, and it would more likely be viewed as a war cry-inspired celebration, rather than a taunt.

Reply #530577 | Report this post

Years ago

It was pathetic. This is a bloke who whinges about everything & now its ok for him to stir the pot?


Reply #530581 | Report this post

Years ago



Reply #530582 | Report this post

Years ago

with the hakka, would it be as accepted for a bunch of white guys to dress as British red coats with muskets. and set up a shootin line and fire off some blanks as ZN team does a hakka?

Reply #530588 | Report this post

Jack Toft  
Years ago

A bit blown out of proportion. He seems to be a guy who gets caught up in the moment.

Just let it slide..............

Reply #530590 | Report this post

Years ago

atleast he didnt ruin a 13yr old girls life in the process...

Reply #530593 | Report this post

Years ago

Opposition fans were booing him all night, who was taunting who?

Reply #530594 | Report this post

Years ago

Don't know why this is an issue, fans have been giving him shit so he just gave a little back. Who cares, people are talking like its an act of war. Move on.

Reply #530598 | Report this post

Years ago

Oh Dear....

Reply #530600 | Report this post

Years ago

It was awesome. So many people think others should make decisions in their life based on what 'the mob' will think of it. I'm glad Goodes doesn't, and I hope we see the war dance again after a goal some time.

Reply #530625 | Report this post

Years ago

So if somebody does a motion of throwing a spear to me would it be ok for me to do a slit the throat motion ?

Reply #530630 | Report this post

Years ago

Anon^ what tribe are you from, or should we ask what gang are you with?

Reply #530631 | Report this post

Years ago

So you are saying goodes is from a gang?

Reply #530634 | Report this post

cats 4 life  
Years ago

he is an about so its ok? he gives it but can't take a little girl giving him crap

Reply #530654 | Report this post

Years ago

For once Jack Toft makes sense well said JT.

Reply #530655 | Report this post

Years ago

By his own interview Goodes wants this topic spoken about and brought out in the open. He has succeeded in this outcome I guess. Anon#634 you are an imbecile!

Reply #530657 | Report this post

Years ago

Heritier Lumumba scored a goal today and ran at the crowd with a spear gesture.

Everyone should get in on the act and try to incite the crowd after a goal. The AFL should want to crowd to feel threatened or goaded into doing something that will leave them with a criminal record. Good times.

Reply #530661 | Report this post

Years ago

You feel threatened by a dance anon^ do you, then go and buy a gun for protection mate. And a banjo while you are at it!

Reply #530663 | Report this post

Years ago

I find the hip-thusting gestures more offensive.

Reply #530671 | Report this post

lots of petrol  
Years ago

what a load of PFFTTT . Crowd get emotional , players get emotional , good stuff across the fence
Anyway this is what we need

Reply #530680 | Report this post

Years ago

Mark 'Jacko' Jackson, now there was an Australian of the Year candidate if I ever witnessed one! :)

Reply #530688 | Report this post

Years ago

He isn't a 'sook' or a 'whinger'. He has said numerous times that the booing doesn't affect him when he is playing. He did say he was disappointed because the booing upset his mother and his partner, who couldn't understand exactly why it was happening.

And for those who think he was a 'sook' who 'ruined the life of a 13 year old girl' ... he was playing a high intensity game, he heard a word thrown at him that has many times in his life been used as a racial taunt against him, and he reacted. He didn't set out to deliberately victimise a little girl, nor could he make a perfect judgement straight away about her age. He was at pains to implore the following day at a press conference that the girl be left alone, that he didn't blame the girl or harbour any ill will towards her.

The fact some people are booing him for this reason, or that he wasn't sufficiently deferential or compliant when expressing his views on Australia and its history whilst he was AOTY is really unfortunate.

From a basketball perspective, I know that Patty Mills was very supportive of Goodes at the time of the racial taunt. He praised Goodes' handling of the event and the fallout. He may very well share many of his views about Australia and its history as well.

Is anyone going to start booing Mills also when he plays in Australia?

Reply #530769 | Report this post

Years ago

Lol ruining a 13 yo girls life. I recon the parent were doing more than a good job of that before Goods came along. Filling her head full of racist shit. Get real!

Reply #530872 | Report this post

Years ago

The comments on this forum about this issue are generally well considered and thoughtful. The same can't be said about 90% of other comments at the bottom of articles.

Reply #530922 | Report this post

Years ago

@rjd I have seen the Hakka directed at the crowd at the start of basketball tournaments. It was obviously well intended, kind of like a greeting or challenge, but not at players or opponents, definately at the crowd in these instnaces. Just to qualify this, it was at the start of tournaments and not during games!

Reply #531106 | Report this post

Years ago

WOW, what a fight. Listeners to The Run Home show on Melbourne Sports radio station SEN yesterday afternoon were treated to one of radio's great spats.
In the red corner, Rebecca Wilson, journalist from Sydney’s Daily Telegraph. In what you might call the "boo corner", former AFL player Dermott Brereton.

It was just Wilson at first, doing her regular Sydney sports rundown, which obviously included commentary on the Adam Goodes booing saga. And boy, did she tee off with admirable passion.

“I’m incredibly disappointed where this has got to the point now where this is out of control,” Wilson said.

“It’s 17 out of 18 clubs that are now booing, and not just one or two thousand but basically a majority of the crowd is booing one player.

“To me it’s absolutely disgraceful. I’m embarrassed to be Australian. It makes me want to cry to be honest.

“And the fact that Dermott Brereton can come out today and says 'I actively encourage it’ [the booing], have a look at what he’s done.”

By this time, somebody had no doubt texted Dermie to turn the radio on. Here’s what he would have heard if he did.

“We’ve got to look ourselves in the mirror here guys. We’ve got to face our demons as Australians. We are racist,” Wilson said.

“And this is not about a niggle. It’s not about a player who dived. This is about a man who put his Aboriginality before anything else. Now, it’s all fine and dandy when an Aboriginal player scores goals and he’s terrific and he’s a great athlete. But the moment that he makes a statement on behalf of his race, the entire country starts to boo.

“And these people that you watch booing are middle class Australians, and they think they are better than black people and there’s no way of getting around it, and [AFL CEO] Gillon McLachlan’s fallen short of saying it’s racist, but I’ve never been involved in anything as racist as this in sport in Australia in the time I’ve been reporting it.”

This was strong stuff. This was as strong as anything said in defence of Adam Goodes all week — or perhaps ever. But Wilson wasn’t finished.

Rebecca Wilson and Dermott Brereton debate the Adam Goodes situation @TheRunHome @SENfooty

— SEN 1116 (@SENNews) July 28, 2015

“Forget that Adam Goodes is a niggly player. Does anyone boo [Geelong player] Stevie J [Johnson] every time he runs onto the field cos he’s a niggle? No, absolutely not.

“I’m sorry to be on my horse but it absolutely devastates me ... and here’s a guy who basically is one of the nicest people you will ever meet, a true gentleman, a person who spends more time with kids in AFL and has done more for the development of the sport in Sydney — the country’s biggest city — than any single player.

“And this is how we treat him and how we vilify him. This is why I can’t come to grips with it.”

Dermie must have been good and flustered by this stage. At 11 minutes and 45 seconds into the 15 minute and 27 second segment, he was on air having his say. The hosts said he’d called in to “defend himself”.

Well you know what they say. Attack is the best method of defence.

“Hey Rebecca, that is the most moronic statement to paraphrase me and say that I have actively encouraged people to act in this behaviour,” Brereton thundered.

“That is doing your job without reading any research whatsoever. I am livid, livid, livid that you would say that and go ahead with that and just shoot from the hip. For a journalist that is complete and utter stupidity.”

Wilson said at this point that she’d look the story up again to check it.

“Please do,” Brereton blustered. “And find the place where I say I actively encourage it. That is moronic. And to tip me in Rebecca is the poorest piece of journalism I have ever heard you commit to.”

“Dermott,” Wilson countered. “Before you say that, you have said quite clearly in that piece this morning that you think Adam Goodes brought in upon himself.”

“Wrong and wrong! If you read the article Rebecca, I said maybe Adam Goodes should have a look within at some of the actions he has done that has incited this type of reaction.

“If you have tried to tip me in the deep end and made me out to be racist, I tell you what, you will have legal papers on your desk by midday tomorrow.”

Last night Brereton confirmed to the Herald Sun’s Rita Panahi that he was handing a transcript of the interview to his legal representatives and was considering his options.

The fight continued to escalate, with more yelling and insults galore. You can listen to it through the link below. It’s as entertaining as it is disturbing.

LISTEN | If you missed it, things got fiery between Rebecca Wilson and Dermott Brereton on the Goodes issue

— The Run Home (@TheRunHome) July 28, 2015

Oh, and for the record, here’s what Brereton actually said:

“People will boo, they will cheer, they will hiss, sometimes they will swear — it’s the behaviour of the player that can stimulate those responses.

“Adam Goodes would do well to look at what he’s done bad or good or indifferent and work out what he can do to change that.’’

Reply #539981 | Report this post

Years ago

I actually agree with Dermott on this one. Politics and sport shouldn't mix, just like religion and sport. If you put yourself out there in the political landscape you have to expect some people will not agree with you. If you then react a certain way, considering football crowds are not the sharpest tools in the shed, you may have to cop some booing as a reaction. If you then have a whinge about it, you will not always find sympathy. He isn't being bood because of his skin colour, he is just feeling that way it appears. Maybe it is time he took a good look at everything in perspective?

Still big news this!

Reply #539982 | Report this post

""Dermott," Wilson countered. “Before you say that, you have said quite clearly in that piece this morning that you think Adam Goodes brought in upon himself.”

“Wrong and wrong! If you read the article Rebecca, I said maybe Adam Goodes should have a look within at some of the actions he has done that has incited this type of reaction."

Thanks for clearing that up, Derm...

Reply #539985 | Report this post

Years ago

racism no matter who its directed at ,has no place in this world, but especially in sports were everyone should be on an equal footing, two wrongs do not make a right, he should be chastised just as those who have taunted him have been, it is not one rule for some and another for him.
The haka is a cultural thing that tourist like to see and NZ is famous for, THIS little display was nothing of the sort, if he had been doing this since he started playing and all indigenous players had too in all sports that then would make it a cultural tradition, unfortunately it was a poor attempt to get even and its backfired .

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