Kason
Years ago

With his ring will Bogut be the GAOAT?

Tough competition with Patty and Gaze but with Boguts imminent ring will he be in talks for the Greatest Australian Of All Time?

I think Delly and Patty will bounce back next year and really go ape shit to work towards GAOAT.

Topic #37205 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

I assume you mean basketballer, and from the NBA. If so surely Longley is far ahead of Bogut

Reply #531514 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

It all depends how you define it. I don't believe Andrew Bogut is the greatest player we have ever produced - he does, however have among the very best NBA resumes for an Aussie.

Number 1 draft pick, a few All NBA defensive teams, Naismith Trophy winner etc. Add a ring to that, and it is a tidy resume on paper - Longley however has 3 of them.

Andrew Bogut has had the longest, and personal best NBA resume. Gaze has by far the best international Boomers resume. I dare say Patty Mills is a more exciting talent than both however is an NBA role player. Andrew Gaze was born 25 years too early, and I believe he would have had a solid career in the NBA if he were in his 20's right now.

If you are going on talent and impact - gaze. If you are going on skill - Gaze/Mills. If you are going on NBA resume Bogut by a hair over Longley. I believe our GAOAT remains Andrew Gaze.

Reply #531515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bogut has one 2nd defensive team, not several, and next year will equal longleys NBA career length. Not sure how that puts him over a 3peating champion for best NBA player.

Gaze comfortably best ever Aussie basketballer agree with

Reply #531516 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

LJ would have a pretty big case to be in consideration if your factored in the women.

Reply #531518 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

If you factored in women, Lauren Jackson beats out Gaze, Longley, Bogut and Mills on her own.

Reply #531519 | Report this post


Drewbie  
Years ago

Gaze currently but his spot is under threat. Patty wants the GAOAT and is gunning for it. Several more stellar seasons could get him there especially if he continues his beastly performances like the championship winning performance in the finals last year. Delly will bounce back that's for sure. But I think he just wants to be on the Mount Rushmore of GAOATs. He will get that podium spot though. Bogut is getting there, but his lack of boomer performances sets him back.

I think Gaze is most worried about Ben Simmons taking the GAOAT title. This kid can flat out ball and could be a future hall of famer and olympic medalist. But it's difficult to speculate on future. Let's be realistic and say Gaze followed closely by Patty Beast Mode Mills and Bogut.

Reply #531520 | Report this post


kason  
Years ago

I think you have to base it on the worth of the players to each team. Longley wasn't exactly the xfactor to that Bulls team but is Bogut either? Patty carried the Spurs in Game 6 finals 2014 but then Delly carried the Cavs through the East playoffs 2015. Gaze wasn't really a factor in the NBA but he was the man in NBL. I am going to have to say Patty because he has destroyed NBL, Olympics, College and NBA.

1. Patty
Gaze
Bogut
Delly

(Mt Rushmore of GAOAT)

LJ for GWAOAT

Reply #531521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Patty Mills' resume speaks for itself:

2014 - Won first NBA championship with the San Antonio Spurs
2012 – Made ESPN All-London Second Five
2012 – Mills has highest scoring average at 2012 London Olympics with an average of 21.2 points per game
2012 – On 26 April 2012, Mills scored a career high 34 points vs Golden State Warriors.
2012 – Has first game in the San Antonio Spurs starting five.
2012 – On 27 March 2012, Mills signed with the San Antonio Spurs.
2009 – Drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers in the second round of the 2009 NBA draft, the second Indigenous Australian to be drafted into the NBA
2008 – Australia Post Boomers squad member; Beijing Olympics
2008 – WCC Newcomer of the Year, All-WCC First Team
2007 – MVP Outrigger Hotels Rainbow Classic, Saint Mary's College Tournament champions
2007 – West Coast Conference Player of the Month: December 2007
2007 – West Coast Conference Player of the Week: 26 November 2007 and 26 December 2007
2007 – In just his fourth NCAA game for Saint Mary's, Mills dominated with 37 points against Oregon – the sixth-best return in the school's history, and best by a first-year player.
2007 – Australia Post Boomers squad member; Under-19 men squad member;
2006 – Boomers squad member (youngest at 17 years of age); AIS scholarship; Australian Junior Camp; U-20 World team at Nike Hoops Summit (USA); U-20 National Championships representing ACT and RE Staunton Medallist
2005 – AIS scholarship; Australian Junior Camp; Youth Olympic Festival Australian men's team (gold); U-18 National Championships representing ACT
2004 – U-18 National Championships representing ACT
2003 – Marist All Ages Basketball Tournament – MVP

Reply #531522 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Depends on what your personal criteria are, but there's no doubt in my mind that Bogut's best was a level about Longley's best, and only injuries have prevented him from making him the undisputed greatest.
He has surpassed Luc in terms of games played, games started, and career averages. It's really only the 3 rings that Luc is ahead on, and those are a far bigger reflection on their respective teammates than their own individual greatness.

Reply #531524 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

* that should have said a level "above", not a level "about"

Reply #531525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Gaze didn't have an NBA career, that rules him out.

Its like calling oscar schmidt the best Brazilian of all time ahead of Nene or Barbosa.

Gaze was a great shooter, although he didn't bring enough of anything else to the table to stay on the floor in the NBA. Think a taller Jimmer Fredette could be a good comparison.

Bogut and Patty have had long careers in the best league in the world and battled against the best in the world night after night and that puts them ahead of Gaze.

Gaze is like thinking back to how good a sega master system was back in the day, although if you turned it on today you'd turn it straight back off and reach for the PS4.

Reply #531526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bogut is easily the best Australian when you base it on their NBA career. The guy made an All-NBA Third team, All-Defensive Second team and led the whole league in blocks for a season.

Mills and Longley were never even close to accomplishing anything like this.

Reply #531527 | Report this post


Wondering  
Years ago

Lauren Jackson. By miles.

Reply #531528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I was pretty young when Gaze was playing, but my recollection was that he was a master of playing for the foul, and other slightly underhanded tricks. Nothing nasty, but he gamed the system, rather than played the game. That's not to say he wasn't the greatest nbl player we've ever seen, and I had very biased eyes back then, but I never enjoyed watching him play, like I do some of the other great players.

Reply #531529 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Gaze was a great player in his own right though. Let's not totally write him off based only on lack of NBA success. I will always believe that he could have been a valuable player in the right situation.
Exum has already done more in the NBA than Gaze ever did but I doubt many would call Exum better than Gaze if his career ended today. Ditto Heal or Anstey.

Reply #531530 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Anon #529, the tail end of Gaze's NBL career was definitely characterised as much by his gamesmanship and favourable ref treatment as by his ability, but in his prime he really was an awesome player. On the shitty Tigers teams of the late 80's opponents could focus on him without much risk of being burned by his mediocre teammates, but he still averaged phenomenal scoring numbers at a very respectable efficiency.

I'm not going in to bat for him as being greater than Bogut, Longley & Co, but the man could play.

Reply #531531 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I was anon #531526 with the anti Gaze post.

He was an amazing player and did more for the game by staying in Australia then any other player.

Although when trying to select the best, his lack of an nba career is a red mark that enables us to put Luc, Patty and Bogut ahead of him.

What I'm still confused about as I what quite young is that he played in the NCAA championship game for Seaton Hall and had a good season. I'm guessing he didn't get drafted because of athletic and age concerns, although was he not invited to summer league, or offered camp invites or signed as a free agent? Seems like that season should have led to an nba career.

Reply #531532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kason you can't be serious!

Delly carried cavs through 2015 playoffs??? What an absolute stupid comment

Delly 6.5pts @38% 1.7reb 2.7ass
Thompson [email protected] 57.6% 10.2reb 0.7ass
JR Smith 13.0 @39.6% 3.6reb 1.7ass
Mozgov 7.8 @47.8% 6.0reb 0.5ass
Shumpert 9.3 @39.7% 5.4reb 1.3ass
Irving 19.0 @43.8% 3.6reb 3.8ass
James 28.0 @47.7% 8.6reb 6.6ass

Laughable that you'd say he's carried the cavs this playoff

How can you consider gaze over others when he didn't even play in the best league in the world????


Reply #531537 | Report this post


Young Gun  
Years ago

I think Gaze would be more highly regarded in the NBA in this era. tbh... I think the standard just isn't the same as the 1990's & early 2000s.

Until this finals series, I would serious believe that Heal is a far superior player to Delly.

I think Bogut was right to make his assessment as being superior to Longley when he was drafted. But, sadly, Bogut has had some extremely rough breaks. I think he is amazing to still be walking, let alone playing ball. So, his championship is some good luck (being traded to a contender), and a whole heap of positive thinking, great medical staff and hard work. Bogut is great, and will be remembered as such.

But, I still think that to be considered the greatest Aussie ever, he needs to be compared to what other Aussies did at International Level & the current guys just haven't done that yet.

I remember having a lot of hope for the 2000 Olympic team achieving a medal. Maybe I'm jaded, but I just can't see them achieving a medal either, despite how many have NBA contracts are on the team.

Reply #531538 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Andrew Bogut All NBA third team 2010 that makes him the number one male in my opinion clearly Jackson the best Aussie ever

Reply #531539 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Young Gun the standard of the NBA is better now then in the 90s, and the standard of the NBA in the 90s was better then in the 70s. It's the way things work.

Reply #531544 | Report this post


Cherry Picker  
Years ago

If you're a GM of an Nba team would you trade Bogut for Mills? Or would the bulls have been better with Bogut or Longley? Before the bulls Longley was a bust and afterwards was an overpaid bust.
If Gaze played Nba in his prime I think best case a Kyle Korver.
So Imo Bogut the best nba but Gaze the best not to play Nba.

Reply #531549 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Yes, I think Gaze could have been a bit like Korver, but taller and probably a better overall scorer. I think if the NBA played internationals back then as they do now, Gaze would have the better resume than Bogut.

Bogut would be better than Longley on the Bulls. Longley often use to frustrate Jordan by dropping passes, and was often called a 'styrofoam' centre. I think Bogut is an upgrade in every way to Longley but plays a similar role.

Reply #531550 | Report this post


Leighton  
Years ago

Korver and Gaze are the same height...

If Longley was a 'styrofoam' centre they wouldn't have kept him for three straight Championships. Clearly he fitted into the chemistry and played his role or the Bulls would have just traded for any random 7 footer.

The NBA did take internationals in the 90s, guys like Divac, Kukoc and Petrovic were great. The Aussies at the time just weren't good enough to get a regular spot, aside from Longley.

If you're talking ranking according to individual NBA stats/recognition aside from Championships it's
Bogut
Mills
Longley
Dellavedova

Reply #531555 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Best case a Kyle korver isn't a bad thing. Dude almost shot 50/50/90 this year

Reply #531556 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anstey above Delly if you're going by stats

Reply #531557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Even ingles statistically better than Delly. Exum basically dead even

Going by potential Delly blows ingles and Anstey out the water but at this point of his career statistically which is what you're looking at he's basically equal with three other guys

Reply #531558 | Report this post


Leighton  
Years ago

Ingles and Exum have only played one season though. Delly has had two decent seasons including significant playoff games this season. Overtime others may overtake him, just calling it as it stands right now.

Fair call on Anstey, he did play three seasons and 155 games. Didn't have the starting roles other guys mentioned in this thread have had, but worth including in the discussion.

Reply #531560 | Report this post


sidney deane  
Years ago

Bogut defintely, but isnt as well liked as others at seems to cloud peoples judgement.

Reply #531565 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Years ago

I take the Olympics and World Champs as more important than the NBA, and Gaze wins there. Sure, playing NBA year after year against the world's best athletes rates, but so do the games against the best in the world.

Oscar Schmidt WAS the best in the world outside the NBA for many years, and he would have been huge in the NBA if he'd wanted to go there, but he chose not to (from memory).

Patty is an excitement machine but he would never have had 100 NBL games of 40+ points against some very strong imports and locals, Luc wasn't just a bit player on the Bulls, and Delly deserves kudos for working his butt off.

However, in terms of world basketball, my GAOAT is LJ, followed by Bogut, Gaze, Mills, Luc and then possibly Sandy Brondello.

Reply #531566 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Years ago

Whoops -got to put Penny Taylor ahead of Sandy!

Reply #531567 | Report this post


Let's be honest  
Years ago

Any discussion involving woman players has to involve Michelle Timms. While no LJ, at her time of playing for the Mercury she had the highest selling player Jersey in Pheonix, yes even above the Men in the NBA. That alone should include her as a possible GOAT discussion point.

Reply #531568 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I wrote about Anstey/ Delly/ ingles etc

"Statistically" to me means points/ assists/ rebounds if you're judging a career statistically. If you're talking about quality of those seasons then of course Delly is the best of those guys. I wouldn't call dellys seasons (ie 82 pre-playoff games) that fantastic, only 7 3 and 2 this year. His playoff play on the other hand has been excellent but at this point I don't really think you can put Delly in our best for a couple of decent playoff games. Will he be there eventually? Almost certainly if he can keep up his playoff play during the actual season

Reply #531569 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

My 2 cents worth LJ, Bogut and Longly. in that order

Reply #531571 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And it should be kept at a three person list until any of the other guys do something of note. Cavs win this year and dellevadovas play as starting point guard is a major part of that then yes he can be 4th

Reply #531577 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think Patty deserved to be up there strictly based on his boomer career. He has gone into bat at almost every WC and Olympics and has been a threat in every one. He was the highest scorer at the London Olympics and made the second all London 5 team. He was a Boomer at 18. Bogut (Noguts) would not appear if he stubbed his toe.

Ben Simmons will take the throne though.



Reply #531580 | Report this post


Sammy  
Years ago

Amazing how there are so many Australians that underrate bogut

Reply #531583 | Report this post


A. Bitoni Fan  
Years ago

You can't compare men and women together when debating like this.

Everyone knows men's teams would demolish women's teams if they played each other. So the argument then is on the basis of how well Jackson has done relative to her competition. But isn't women's basketball for the most part "semi-professional"?

Reply #531586 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lauren Jackson

Reply #531589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Greatest ever: LJ
Greatest guy: Gaze
Greatest NBA: Bogut, Mills, Longley

Reply #531590 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

If you're including females then LJ wins and Penny Taylor is a clear second. 3 WNBA rings in which she played crucial roles, multiple All Star, World Championship winner with the Opals in which she was MVP of the tournament. A criminally underrated player, and achievements all over the globe far exceeding any of our men.

Reply #531594 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Is Kyrie Irving in the discussion?

Reply #531596 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Dunkin, can you give us a list of the people who underrate Penny? It will be pretty short.

Reply #531598 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If you consider Nicole Kidman an American seeing as she was born there then yes you can count Kyrie. If you're not an idiot then no, he's American despite being born here

Reply #531602 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#531602

No need to get all touchy. It was just a question.

Reply #531605 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

HO, just in this thread alone, which is full of hoops fans, plenty of people mentioned LJ and only one mentioned Penny. That's a common theme. Lauren is very well known and rightly so for her achievements. Penny, not so much.

Reply #531608 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Fair enough Dan. I know no one in the game who underrates or dismisses Penny. But its easy not to mention her against LJ in this discussion. They are contemporaries and LJ stands above her. Timms is mentioned as a great player but her best was when she was not a contemporary of either of those.

Reply #531617 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Hard to fully gauge Timms because she was on the back end of her career when the WNBA started and much of her prime years were in Europe, but personally I'd have her somewhere close to Penny.
Being an All Star starter alongside Cooper, Swoopes, Thompson & Leslie - all of whom are hall of fame level - tells you what kind of esteem she was held in.

Reply #531623 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

... and of course her Opals achievement are pretty legendary. The Opals rise to regular medals level began before LJ. It began when Timmsy was leading the way.

Reply #531624 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Dunkin.

The Opals first international medal was 1996, a bronze.

The next was 1998, also bronze - the first time Jackson played in a championship event with the team. Their regular medal appearances have coincided with the Jackson era.

Reply #531626 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

That was my point. That our rise started pre-LJ. Its first big leap was at Atlanta 1996 when we were pretty competitive with the USA, and Timms was our leader and best player at that time.

Reply #531628 | Report this post


Baller6  
Years ago

Was that Steve Kerr talking about luc during a press conference just now on sports center saying he was one of his alltime favorite team mates....but it is early for a public holiday so I may have heard wrong ;)

Reply #531658 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I missed that but it's entirely possible. They're good friends.

Reply #531665 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Delly just said hi

Reply #531725 | Report this post


Ranger Nation  
Years ago

top 5
1. Lauren Jackson
2. Penny Taylor
3. Andrew Gaze
4. Michelle Timms
5. Luc Longley

Reply #531752 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maybe we should wait until Bogut actually has his "imminent ring" before getting too carried away here ;)

Reply #531757 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Its like calling oscar schmidt the best Brazilian of all time ahead of Nene or Barbosa."

Oscar Schmidt is by far the greatest Brazilian player of all time. The others don't even come close.

As for Aussies, assuming we are talking the best player in open competitions, not restricted ones, then it has to be Gaze because Longley and Bogut haven't produced anything close to what he did at the game's pinnacle, the Olympics.

If we're talking about the greatest NBA Aussie it's Longley with three rings, clearly, because we haven't had a standout individual performer (hopefully that will change soon though).

If we're including restricted competitions, then Lauren Jackson would be able to challenge Gaze for first spot.

Reply #531761 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Luc was actually a very good passing centre and that is why he was a good fit in Chicago's triangle offence and why they obtained him from the Timberwolves. The big body, smarts and passing he offered complimented Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Harper, Kerr etc.

Reply #531856 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

http://www.mcall.com/sports/basketball/sixers/mc-nba-20150603-story.html

Not very interesting exept for the Kyrie reference. If Brown had his way then this thread would be redundant..

Reply #531868 | Report this post




 

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