Anonymous
Years ago

Ben Simmons article in USA Today

Found a nice write-up on Ben Simmons and his family:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2015/06/19/ben-simmons-lsu-basketball-nba-guard-forward-recruit/71257494/

It's fairly extensive, and included some interesting quotes about basketball development in Australia:

"In Australia, the youth basketball experience is quite different from the AAU culture here in the U.S.

"Over there, you're given roles — and it starts very young," Simmons' father says. "This is our 1, this is our 2. They want to develop them like adults. I'm like, why do we want to put them in a box? ... Put them in a box and say you do this, you do that, and this is all you're going to do. It really is the way they think. It's accepted."

and:

"More instruction, team-orientated systems; I think that's a blessing and a curse," says Liam Simmons, Ben Simmons' older brother and current assistant coach at Southwest Baptist University in Missouri. "From the standpoint that you grow up in structure and you learn to play as a teammate, but you don't always get to develop the individual skill set that's going to carry you beyond that particular team. I think that's where the balance is fine."

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Tornado  
Years ago

I don't believe either of that to be true. If you have the drive and the passion what is stopping you from developing skills yourself - It's up to the player?!

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Bear  
Years ago

Nice article anon^, a good read. He will be one of, if not the best we have sent over for sure.

Interestingly I agree with the comments regarding how differently we seem to develop our kids to how they see it over in the States.

I also see some effort here to change slightly and tend to move towards the US style in some elements of our elite pathway system, but we have a long way to go still in this regard IMHO...

Watching our junior Nationals it is easy to see that we are still stuck in a structure and system of position based play by and large.

While we do tend to produce skilled and educated basketball athletes with reputations for good work ethics and team play, we still don't quite appreciate the individual and how to get the best out of that individual for their future, whatever team they eventually play in!

Good luck to Ben and his family, look forward to watching the journey unfold.

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Clifford  
Years ago

Hopefully better than Delly but I see your point GWB

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting points about Australian coaching being obsessed with pigeon holing kids in positions.

We are poor at teaching skills and fundamentals.No doubt Delly is a talent to have gotten so far. Imagine if he had good fundamentals coaching through his juniors. His ceiling may have been a touch higher.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Delly and Simmons are obvioulsy different players.

Hopefully they both go as far as they can go based on their own unique skill set.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I would say Delly's biggest strength is his fundamentals. His heart and desire also. He is certainly not in the NBA because of his athleticism.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The article was previewed on the front page and the rest of the article was a fill page in the real paper. Great stuff.

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billy holye  
Years ago

Gives everyone a nice insight into perhaps why simmons plays the way he does...as his father and brother say bringing the best of Australian basket all and attitude of USA basketball and fusing them together...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think we do great at teaching fundamentals & team basketball. The majority of our guys are applauded for their great team play, work ethic etc. We make the best out of mediocre athletes, that's our MO. So I think we succeed with the Gaze, Heal, Delly types who found ways to be successful without having great physical attributes. However with the exceptional athlete I think we let ourselves down by being too restrictive. I'm thinking Sam McKinnon, Simon Dwight etc.

I think we, in general, produce good, smart basketballers. But I don't know that our system is perfect for the top 1%.

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Todd  
Years ago

Ben is totally right. So many coaches who think more about winning than developing. It's total amazing that kids are not taught updated fundamentals but rather set plays. And most of these set plays don't work in higher grades.

With all the talk about banning zones for under 14's, what about banning structures.

The thing about system offenses is that you hind your weakest and play to your strengths. The problem for juniors that the coaches keep them from making mistakes (learning).

The result we have players who can't create offensively but can role and play solid defense.

Also, the refereeing allows too much contact for junior and again results in players not take risks.

I have seen too many kids who develop early and made to play the 4/5 role and never handle the ball outside. The kid doesn't grow and can't play higher grades as their height makes them 1/2.

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Aint no time  
Years ago

@Todd

What is worse is time poor structure of training availablity, kids don't get taught how to play the 4/5 properly, any role for that matter. They run through the same drills at training covering average skill fundamentals passing, running, shooting, screens and scrimmage.

The true art of big men is dying and yet the game still demands big players stay close to the rim for valid reason but I agree with the views shared.

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Todd  
Years ago

"When Ben was eight and playing up with 12-year-olds, the coach assigned him to be a post player — even though he'd be squaring off against a kid much larger than himself. The coach saw Dave Simmons' size, knew his background and figured his kid would be big someday, too. That's just how things were; that's part of what encouraged the father to take more ownership of coaching his son."

The coach isn't alone in doing this. Also. parents are pretty stupid as well as the coaches. They are impressive with set plays and winning than the kids developing their minds and skills.

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Todd  
Years ago

@Aint no time

Post play is important, I believe that all juniors should taught how to post up and how to defend it.

A lot of coaches, get the big boys/girls to post but the team never passes into the post and so the big just stands there and set screens and rebound. Very boring and doesn't develop nothing.

The stupid coaches don't teach how to pass into the post or basic post moves. Even if the big kids gets the ball in the post which is rare, they throw up a bad shot as the kid knows that he/she won't get a lot of looks.

For me, juniors should be taught all the skills and later on get define roles.

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A. Bitoni Fan  
Years ago

Simmons seems a know-it-all, a bit in the Nick Kyrgios mold. I guess this is the young superstar mould these days.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Smarter and more confident = Every new generation

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Anonymous  
Years ago

He is nothing like Kyrgios, stupid thing to say. He is just being well guided by smart parents.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Seems like a know it all? Guys going top 3. His opinion about his journey to get there is worth a little bit. What's the highest draft position you've seen one of your kids get picked at Botoni Fan?

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GWB  
Years ago


And yes, Australia seems to make Basketball robots. Even the complimentary US article "every team needs an Aussie" had our style earmarked as team oriented hustle guys and role players.

Out of all of our professional basketball players, I can count on my hand how many have the killer instinct it takes to take a game over. Patty Mills and Chris Goulding come to mind, and the latter probably couldn't do it in the NBA or at Olympic level.

We need to find a happy medium, between making smart and savy players - as we have done - and making guys who can take us to the next level - the Ben Simmons of the world.

Even just in high school basketball I noticed the things Ben describes. I was the teams best shooter/scorer, yet there was never a real effort to get me touches. Coaches were happy for some dud to miss a bunch of shots if it came from good offence, rather than me take it upon myself and likely score. Australia would be a powerhouse if we refined both sides.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"Team oriented hustle guys and role players." Pretty much sums up how the average (white) Australian is built. Anatomically, the typical Australian is a great swimmer but is never gonna have the elite athleticism or attributes that even below average African Americans will have. I will eat an entire teams worth of jerseys if Australia ever produces a star NBA basketballer with white parents. Absolutely should be focusing on teaching young kids grit and hustle, that's literally the only reason delly made it to the NBA when his offensive repertoire makes him a d league bench warmer at best

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billy holye  
Years ago

Settle down there mate...flirting with crossing the line and making it racial...Luc Longley Andrew Bogut Matt Delly Arron Baynes Joe Ingles are all guys who impacted their NBA teams.

3 out of 5 have rings.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

In this country we have local associations U12 & U14 worrying about results and running sets etc that confine kids to the 1 spot or 5 spot without truely developing all rounds skills.

It's insane that people care more bout how the u14's are doing than how many they develop out of U18's to SEABL/College/Nbl and the like. When results of juniors matters more then each club developing the individual it makes the article pretty logical.

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Todd  
Years ago

I think that rep for under 12 and under 14 is a useless exercise. Running elite squad working on skills and fundamentals would work a lot better.

Running sets at a younger age is just plan stupid, when kids don't have the fundamentals.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

We have an u14 nationals but the u20 australian shootout is dead. Says it all about clubs mentality.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The line that we don't have players with the elite athleticism or physical profile to ever be dominant in the NBA is such a cop out. Lacking elite physical attributes doesn't stop you from developing elite fundamental skills. Players like Steve Nash and Ricky Rubio have done ok without being physically dominant. Even Stephen Curry and James Harden, while both very quick, aren't physically dominant in the mould of a Lebron James, but became MVP or MVP candidates by being highly skilled offensive players.

People have mentioned Delly and how great his hustle, grit and team-first attitude were in the NBA finals, but what impact could he have made if he had a better handle and shooting technique?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Exactly U14's is more important to clubs and once kids finished 18's the clubs don't care. If anything it's what's wrong with bball in Aust!! Really key development at 16-19 isn't happening as the sport has already pidgen holed kids to certain roles from age 10

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I wrote that. How is it racist if I as a white person say African American/ "black" players are better than white people at a sport? It's just a fact. When you use Ricky Rubio as an example of a good player I instantly disregard you as a fool. As impossible as I thought it was, Rubio is a worse shooter than delly is, and is a decent passer but that's about it. Delly ingles and baynes sit on the bench for a vast majority of the games they play in and average 5 points a game. The biggest impact baynes has had is almost getting in blakes way on those dunks in round 1. Delly is talented enough to play 10 minutes when Irving is healthy. None are stars. They fill roles. Simmons will be a star. His dad is who/ has what skin colour? Patty mills is from the Torres Strait and is exciting. Harden and Steph can get to the lane and finish in traffic. Delly just chucks up the worst looking floater ever and is lucky to hit the ring most times.

Why do you think fans went crazy when Childress or ennis came to Aus? Because we finally had some exciting players who can dunk and had elite skills. I tried watching the NBL this season. It was painful. No wonder the NBL is failing when you are lucky to have 1 player on the team with those attributes when the NBA would have 10 of the 12 who can.

Again, 12 jerseys if we ever produce a star. Bogut is the closest averaging a rebound off a double double for his career. And if you dare say Delly is good please remember you cannot be a star if you shoot 25% during a playoffs run and the only reason you're in the league is because you're willing to dive on loose balls.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Before you think rings = a good player, andrew gaze scored 43 points in his 26 game NBA career and wasn't even on the playoff roster yet has a ring.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Reading the above posts about the athleticism that some Australian kids don't have ?, I think you only have to look at where they are AFL. There are plenty of athletic kids out there who make the move to Footy because they may not be 6.6 some of these kids have started out playing Basketball and because of height restrictions perhaps don't have that option. Plenty have succeeded in other sports.
Coaches put more effaces on height over athletic ability

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Anonymous  
Years ago

919, it's not a fact, it's plain racist. Unbelievable.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So it's racist saying Africans are better long distance runners than Australians? You're an idiot.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You're right, it was because of racism Delly didn't get drafted, not that there were 55 better African Americans and a couple of europeans

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GWB  
Years ago

Aussie Rules football puts paid to the notion that Aussies aren't athletic. If you gave some of those boys the Basketball fundamentals, they would have NBA level athleticism for it. There seems to be a problem specifically with Australian Basketball athletes, not necessarily Australian athletes. I would put the AFL guys on athleticism among any professional sports league on the planet, and I dont even like the sport.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Someone's using GWBs username again because the real GWB isn't that stupid.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

932, you are unbelievable. I'd rather be an idiot than an ignorant racist. You are not real bright, are you?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty good article.

"As I've argued before, the only thing truly elite about AFL players is their freakish endurance. Midfielders in particular have world-leading stamina. But in terms of strength, speed and other aspects of athleticism? Again... meh."

http://mikeorthedon.com/2012/04/08/afl-players-are-not-impressive-athletes/

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It's not racism if you use fact to show that a race is superior at a skill. Australian/ Europeans are better swimmers. Africans are better long distance runners. Look at the Olympics. Australians/ Europeans/ white Americans dominate swimming. Kenyans dominate marathons. Sorry you don't understand facts. Some races are better at other things. FACT.

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Bear  
Years ago

Athleticism is one thing we all love to see in a basketball player, it is only one thing however and there are plenty of other skills and abilities needed to become NBA standard.

Vision
Decision Making
Accuracy
Ball Handling
Reading Play
Team Work
Strengh
Coordination
Dexterity
so on and so on...

Even more importantly combining these abilities and skills at the highest level will produce a potential franchise player or star player in the NBA.

The gene pool will decide many things, however if I put forward some names, like for instance Larry Bird, Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Love, I don't think it is their supreme athleticism that stands them out from the crowd.

Yet these and many more NBA stars are right up their with the best athletes one cares to nominate and I would have them in my team any day, beacuse they are highly skilled and valuable players in the sport of basketball.

Better to talk about their skills and abilities rather than focus on where a player may be from or irrelevant facts such as what colour their skin happens to be...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Lucas Walker is capable of anything as athletic as you'd see in the NBA.

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billy holye  
Years ago

It's more about mentality than it is about athleticism...Simmons is not nearly as athletic more specifically explosive as other guys he goes against but his advantage is his mentality and skill set at 6-10.
He has an America approach to the game and attacks everyone he plays, he doesn't back off. He tries to make plays kids in australia would never make because they know they would be put on the bench. I can't count how many times I have heard kids say "my coach doesn't want me dunking the ball" that was probably bc the kid missed 1 dunk and the coach spat the dummy and said "just use the backboard lay it in".
That is the main thing here not athleticism it is freedom of expression and being encouraged to experiment and play freely without position and without being told you are a specific position at age 10.
America encourages aggressive attacking fast paced basketball and australia does not. Funny thing is australia has a shorter shot clock less time in the back court and still play slower than USA....just shows what coaches are instilling in kids.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree with the fact that we see kids being pigeon holed at an early age. How can we change this

Reply #533957 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

At what what level do you think Australians play slower than the US? Certainly a lot of college basketball is played at a relatively slow pace.

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billy holye  
Years ago

Every level college entertains multiple styles of play but the speed at which players play is much faster...

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Bear  
Years ago

Comparing US college to our juniors isn't even close to fair, maybe US High School level, but not college I would have thought.

Also agree with what billy hoyle says in that comment about being able or at least being allowed to play with freedom of expression and being encouraged to experiment, to a point at least.

I have been guilty of it myself, however over time and with experience and self confidence as a coach one can do it better and it will eventually help our kids improve their style of play.

More importantly it has potential to keep them playing and enjoying the game for longer.

Coaching juniors here, it is not so easy to employ such experimental or free flowing play ideas, because every other coach and some parents always think they can do it better.

Worse still, someone is always there to judge you as a coach, perhaps unfairly because of a win/loss record, then try to replace you because some player or his/her parents don't see it the same way.

To coach our juniors better, we need better equipped, more competent and confident teachers, not just X & O coaches that buy into a system which produces robots, but develops humans that are not affraid to make a mistake to ultimately improve and continue enjoying a wonderful game.

To compliment this we need strong leaders and well credentialled people at the top, involved in our Associations at committee level who are not agenda driven but there for the right reasons and make the right decisions based on what is best for the kids and the future of the game.

We need to take notice of world trends and adopt best practise with the guidance of BA and our best coaches, not be too concerned with win/loss at under 10's...

IMHO of course!

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Todd  
Years ago

What can be done?

1. Ban offensive sets for under 14's
2. Change the Nationals 14's to 15's and make it at the term 3/4 break and change 16's to 17's and 18's to 19's. Not under 20's as its a waste of time.
3. Get rid of Under 12 rep ball.
4. BA and state associations advertise, so your kid's wins but can your kid shoot, pass or dribble?
5. Don't give state appointments to coaches who play restrictive offensive sets.
6. Get experience coaches eg NBL coaches to speak boards about the need to teach all the fundamentals and skills to all junior players.
7. State associations to give awards to coaches and associations that teach skills and fundamentals.
8. Extend state junior programmes to a larger squads.
9. Ban full court defenses in under 14's on made basketballs or out of boards.
10. Umpires instructed to make more calls in juniors and no disadvantage/advantage calls. Contact it is a foul. If a player reaches in, the referee must see it as all ball but if they can't tell, then it's a foul.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Todd you make some good points and some not.

Be interesting discussion but prob is many associations hang there hat in junior team results rather than actual individual progression of players to the next level/levels as senior some smaller associations even call it poaching! To much self interest of clubs/parents & coaches

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Solution. Encourage other leagues to exist. Instead of everything being run by the State Associations, give kids who don't play reps the same chance to make the state team. In NSW, the GPS and CAS schools are headed that way. Select your coaches from a wider pool. Don't keep recycling the same old stuff over and over again.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting direction this thread is heading in.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Problem is there are only a handful of coaches in the country with the knowledge and ability to teach fundamentals. There needs to be a whole curriculum developed to educate and qualify coaches. More like Euro model.

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Bear  
Years ago

Anon^ can you elaborate on what you perceive to be the Euro' model?

I am aware that in Europe there are many countries within close proximity, possibly this makes it easier to share knowledge and techniques, however I am not aware of a collaborative model where all countries buy into the same ideals...

From my limited knowledge of Euro' junior development, each nation does things their way to a point, perhaps you know of something more, can you share this model?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

A number of euro countries have 16year olds and up traiibg and playing against men and the better ones getting paid good money to do so.

It's more based on the soccer system over in Europe with fulltime training/playing with education fitting around it not the other way round.

Parents is Aust couldn't handle little johnny training two/three times a day and being openly judged/critics giving positive and negative feedback.

Reply #534088 | Report this post


Todd  
Years ago

Players need to train play less. In Victoria, most teams train twice a week and in WA only once. No time to develop skills and fundamentals.

I don't coach due to time commitments (infant daughter) but can't handle the stupid parents and associations who don't keep up to date with new ways of doing things.



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Anonymous  
Years ago

@Todd, are you one of those stupid parents now that you are a parent?

That's a poorly thought out comment bud. You have just contradicted yourself in saying how busy you are, so you can't commit time to coaching. Yet you call parents who are probably just as busy 'stupid' because they can't keep up with your ideal expectations!

Think, man, just think.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Im glad Todd doesnt have any time to volunteer. I don't need him mucking around my association with his broscience.

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Todd  
Years ago

You don't know me or my situation. I'm telling you that I don't have the time.

As for associations being stupid, please listen to Ben and Dave Simmons.

Saying that parents are stupid was over the top, but do think that coaching is getting harder because of parents and social media.

Many parents are impressive with structures as it is easy to understand than offenses based on principles such as Motion, Prineton offense, read and react, the passing game and dribble drive motion.

As for coaches and associations in Australia not keeping up with the developments of the game that's more common than not.

Not sure why the personal attack?

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Bill Maher  
Years ago

New rule: Todd can attack people but no one else is allowed to attack him back.

Reply #534141 | Report this post


I am a long standing junior rep coach. One year recently I coached an under 12 VC team. The fundamentals of the players were mediocre, and for 7 of the players definitely below the standard required to play at VC level, including the team's alleged superstar, who had great dribbling and vision but poor defence and shooting, and didn't move much. My programs are very well planned and I mapped out a program that sought to focus on fundamentals. I laid this out for the club management and the parents at the start of the campaign, and all agreed. We actually just scraped into VC, due to the turnovers and poor shooting % and easy layups given away = because of low fundamentals at both ends. A few weeks into the season (1 win and 2 losses) the club told me that I must introduce set plays even though I thought the focus on fundamentals was making a big difference. I discovered some of the parents had been in their ears expressing concern that we are not running sets. Alarm bells started to ring. But I did what was asked, and 3 months later with a fair chunk of each training spent on sets, we kept turning the ball over and defending poorly because fundamentals again started to fall behind. And not getting any baskets off the sets because the players didn't have the ball control and movement fundamentals to execute. What a pity, because these players are now going to be behind their peers perhaps for many seasons. The coach is usually the fall guy when a team doesn't win a lot of games, and this case was no exception. But I know in my heart the focus on fundamentals was right, and would have set the players up for the seasons ahead, and yet the "wisdom" from many at the club specially the parents forced the team into this crazy idea of sets at under 12s just in the hope of getting a few more wins in the short term. I think in general the game's leaders and many parents are too focused on wins at under 12s and forego the opportunity for their kids to learn to love the game, be confident in their skills, and maintain their desire to play right through to adulthood. So many kids give up at under 16 because they are sick of the pressure and that everyone (especially their parents) is an expert critic.

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Todd  
Years ago

HumbleHardworking coach,

Your experience is the norm not the exception.

It amazes me that the limited time you have is spend on structures.

You are totally right in focusing on skills and fundamentals.

If I was you I go to club that holds to view that young kids should be learning the fundamentals instead of x's and o's.

Reply #534167 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Coaches should coach the fundamentals IMO.
Kids learn their own personal style and flair on the playground courts regardless. Having the fundamentals is essential though if they're talented and want to get anywhere.

As for Xs & Os, I would much rather that kids learned the basics behind these plays rather than memorising the plays themselves. That stuff should wait until they're playing at a high level.

Reply #534170 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed that x & o really shouldnt have a day in coaching before under 18's cause some kids are robots and get exposed when going from juniors to seniors or to other programs. Melb Tigers in Vic are an example that springs to mind as they all run the shuffle.

Fundamentals, basic spacing, defence and team defrnse, correct shooting technic (major issue) should be the focus and let them express themselves and try flashy passes, drives etc it's what we love bout the game

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I find it amusing that for all the Simmons "input" and great ideas they have done absolutely nothing for Australian basketball other than take advantage of our programs.

California has about 15 million more people than the entire population of Australia! Programs in the USA are massively resourced. Fulltime coaches are the norm, NOT the case here. At the risk of sounding racist (I AM NOT) we don't have the population base of amazing athletes Americans produce which could partly be from their vile practices in the 1800s.

Why is it St Marys needs to recruit so many Aussies? Why is it NBA finals feature Aussies so heavily? Ben Simmons comes through our countries' program and is now one of the best pospects in his age group in America. What about the 1000s of other 6'10'' athletic kids in America nowhere near as good as Ben that didn't get to come through the Australian System?

Why is it our junior U17 team almost knocked of the USA at the World Championships last year?

Actual coaches (not the Simmons) of top US programs love Aussie kids. This is growing rapidly by the week.

The Simmons do have some good points worthy of discussion. There are also some good points above. However, I think it is a bit rich for the Simmons and other Americans to be raising them publicly. Fix your own house!

My final question to them would be why is the American system doing such a poor job?



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Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting comments in the above post well said

Reply #534178 | Report this post


Shayok  
Years ago

I think Simmons has done a lot for Australian basketball. People are recognizing the talent pool in Australia because of the success of Australian players, including Ben. There has not been a previous Australian to receive such lofty status at the high school level such as Ben.
The question is why are kids like Ben, Humphries, Adel, Maker, Bolden and others not staying through high school in Australia like Exum, Delly, Mills, and others.
Imo Ben would not have the ability to separate himself and go make an individual play for himself if he stayed in Australia. Both Delly and Exum struggle with this. Mills is in the best system in the world. In the same breath I don't believe that Ben would be able to go make as many plays for others if he grew up in the U.S. system (9 assist in the Hoop Summit). He has had the best of both worlds.
I think the true complaint is why can't Ben have the best of both worlds and stay in Australia.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I find the comments in the anon^^ post interesting also, however poorly narrated and without substance. What are you saying anon #177, that the yanks have all the coaching, all the money and all the athletes, yet we are almost as good as them?

Seriously!??

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon#177, just one thing you should know, the USA u17 team we almost got close to at worlds was a great team, and they left about four more great teams behind.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I thought this was a discussion primarily about fundamental skills. But a few people keep raising the "Americans are more athletic" argument. When has a lack of athleticism precluded someone from developing strong ball handling and shooting skills?

Without elite athleticism you may struggle to reach the very pinnacle of your sport, but developing ball handling skills that allow you to keep your dribble alive in tight areas or against tough defence certainly can't hurt your prospects. Likewise developing a shooting technique that allows you to take contested shots and off the dribble shots rather than only uncontested, feet-set shots (like Delly) can't hurt.

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Hoopie  
Years ago

Agree with HardworkingCoach. Too much poor coaching at junior rep level where it's easier to coach X's and O's than to fix a poor shot.

I'm not trying to put down all the volunteers who do their best - if they're not taught the fundamentals then it's very hard to coach them in turn.

This probably cos of too much competition for bragging rights between clubs at the expense of the kids. Or maybe cos it's too hard to keep your job as club execs if you aren't getting immediate results.

Are there any clubs where fundamentals come highest in their priorities?

Reply #534226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well the coach is there to prepare a team to perform well in actual games. Given the amount of time these coaches have with players possibly 3-4 hours a week there isn't really ample time to work on individual fundamentals. From experience (late 90's early 00's) coaches would guide players through basic fundamentals and the onus was on the individual to practice these fundamentals in their own time which is fair enough in my opinion. We would practice them in domestic games/pick up games and what not. Some wouldn't practice at all and never improved, others would improve dramatically. If you're not working on your game outside of training then you're probably not that invested in getting better anyway.

Point is.. of course a coach can try to make players fundamentally sound by being a great motivator or teaching elite techical skills, but with only minimal hours of contact per week it's essentially out of their hands on whether players want to improve or not through their own self motivation and self management.

Reply #534236 | Report this post


billy hoyle  
Years ago

Shayok.....Amen.....Nailed it "I think the true complaint is why can't Ben have the best of both worlds and stay in Australia." That is pretty much what his brother said in the article that Ben has had the best of both worlds, complementing the coaching here at home but in the same breath cautioning that there is a fine line between structure and freedom to play.

Reply #534245 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not really. I'm sure a lot of that is platitudes, trying not to offend.

Reply #534253 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

I am sure kids go to US High Schools for various reasons, those with basketball in mind also go there to establish a US Ranking.

College coaches can watch them play live and it makes it easier for kids to be noticed by the highest D1 coaches and that ranking is listed on US web sites, used to determine who is next best for their class.

It is very much about getting into the US system, kids here get a nominal ranking, same as Euro' or any kids outside the US, but if you play in High School in the US it gives you an opportunity for a higher ranking coming into your college class year.

Example:

Ben Simmons stays in Australia and develops in the AIS his US Ranking is a 2, he goes to a US High School and it becomes a 5 (The top ranking possible). He then goes to the top of the ranking list and they all talk about him, if he stays here they still know about him, but it is not recognised as it would be otherwise.

Reply #534254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Thank you #236 for putting it out there that it's up to the players to work on their fundamentals in their own time. As a coach, it's so frustrating when you teach fundamentals for half of every session and it's clear that only half of the group actually work on those new skills in between sessions. As #236 said though, they are the kids that improve, the ones that don't do the work on their own, in their backyard won't, no matter what their coach does.

My 2nd comment is that I don't understand why there is the thought that it's fundamentals V sets? We run a very basic motion that sees every player play in every position (thereby not pigeon holing anyone), and the kids learn how to cut, screen, move without the ball, etc as well as how to attack the defence. These are also fundamental skills that players need to learn, alongside shooting, dribbling, passing and defence.

Reply #534255 | Report this post


Anon #534255

"Fundamentals" includes individual offense fundamentals such as movement, spacing, feeding a post, getting open int he post, reacting as a post to dribble penetration, back cutting when overplayed, the proper way to use a screen, etc - all of these individual rules of thumb.

To add to what I have said earlier, I am certain that part of the reason that coaches teach sets not fundamentals like the above, is that single choreographed set plays are easier to teach than having to watch what numerous players are/are not creating at any point in time and reminding them of missed opportunities to use a rule of thumb.

How hard is it to teach the creating of offensive opportunities through away-screens !!! but when the away-screen is step 5 of a set play it gets done and the coach looks good.



Reply #534257 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#256, #255 here, agree 100%, I don't like specific plays in juniors either, I was referring to continuous 'sets'.

Reply #534259 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Whats the difference?

Reply #534260 | Report this post




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