A. Bitoni Fan
Years ago

NBA Draft - 2nd Round complete - Cats imports?

Heard Gleeson say that this year he will be looking out for the team's interests first and what the team needs, which is essentially code for saying they stuffed in up in trying to bring in a guy out of position and "develop" him into a position where he would be suited at NBA level.

So it shouldn't be too hard to narrow down who the potential candidates will be, basically start with natural swingmen type players and go from there? I noticed a couple of familiar names that may have been posted on this forum earlier in the week. Any further thoughts? Which teams may be more likely to not have roster space for a second rounder?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I reckon these guys will probably struggle to make the rosters of the teams they have been drafted to (all depending on trades and free agent signings). Also, I have left out the Euro's who will stay there rather than come to Aus.

Pick 37 - Richaun Holmes (PF) - Philadelphia
Pick 40 - Josh Richardson (SG) - Miami
Pick 45 - Marcus Thornton (SG) - Boston
Pick 55 - Cady Lalanne (PF) - San Antonio
Pick 58 - J.P. Tokoto (SG) - Philadelphia

I think Richardson would be best signing and given Miami rented out James Ennis they may be interested in doing the same with Richardson. J.P. Tokoto would be an ordinary NBA import as is a role playing 3-D player. Holmes, Richardson and Thornton would be good for most NBL clubs as well as a bunch of un-drafted players (i.e. same as Scottie Wilkebin last year)

Would be great is guys like Andrew Harrison, Darrun Hillard, Olivier Hanlan or Joeseph Young came out here, but I reckon they will make the 15 man rosters and probably play D-League.

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A. Bitoni Fan  
Years ago

Nice summary, anon.

The Miami connection would serve Perth well, you would think. The Heat also drafted a swingman in Winslow with their first rounder, so they might think they've got enough there for the time being (although D-Wade's future is still up in the air at this point).

Time to check out J-Rich YouTube footage...

Reply #534515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Miami didn't rent out Ennis. They could afford to sign him at the time. D League salary is 9k and he wanted to support his family so he came here. He wasn't actually a Heat player, it's not like they're sister clubs now because Miami were finally able to sign him

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It wasn't that they couldn't afford him, they already had 15 roster spots full and hence "Draft and Stash" is becoming more common with US players as much as it is with the Euro's.

For non-drafted players, the top guards that I think would do well in the NBL would be: Quinn Cook (Duke), Dez Wells (Maryland), Tyler Haws (BYU), Trevon Graham (VCU), Derrick Marks (Boise State), Terran Petteway (Nebraska), Andrew Hollins (Minnesota) and Ryan Boatwright (UConn).

I personally would like to see Derrick Marks out here as the reverse Boise State connection given John Rillie signing a heap of Aussie's at Boise.

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A. Bitoni Fan  
Years ago

http://www.hothothoops.com/2015/6/25/8849219/2015-nba-draft-miami-heat-selection-josh-richardson

Just read that article. Damn, this guy would be a near perfect fit!

Is 6'6 and a bit wiry but would cope fine at the SF position at NBL level. Seems a bit of a do-it-all player who has grown in his scoring/shooting ability more recently. The description in that article says his shooting ability was seen as a weakness although it improved more recently and in the interview video he talks about how he's still working on it, which is great to hear.

Seems well-grounded and a smart player too from the way he describes himself and what qualities he likes in a player from his interview. I'm even impressed with the way he doesn't overreact to the fact that he didn't get invited to the Draft combine.

I'm sold!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF_PRlNNgIc


Reply #534518 | Report this post


A. Bitoni Fan  
Years ago

@ #534516

Miami owned Ennis' NBA rights by acquiring him in a draft-day trade, so it's not like there wasn't any connection until he signed with them after his NBL stint. It's pretty well documented that the Wildcats and Heat organisations kept in touch during the course of the NBL season with progress updates/reports, so there is a relationship there. Ennis' "readiness" for NBA-play and his solid rookie campaign won't do any harm to the Wildcats' reputation in the eyes of the Heat.


Reply #534519 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wilbekin was an outstanding college guard without the size/athletic ability to translate to the NBA. Most guys like that don't get drafted, because they're 4-year players and NBA teams have already made up their minds, but I think they are better suited to the NBL than younger players who have been drafted for 'upside.' A lot of upside picks are more raw and less mature.

If you could get Pat Connaughton out here that would be awesome, but pretty sure he'll just play baseball if he can't make an NBA roster. But I would take players like TJ McConnell, Kevin Pangos, Wayne Blackshear, Dez Wells over most of the 2nd round draft picks.

Reply #534520 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I think people are overvaluing the so-called relationship between Miami and Perth.
Without overstating my understanding of the NBA draft, the scenario is straightforward.
Player is drafted (or traded) so that team has the right to sign him, when and if he's good enough to play NBA. I believe the term used is "stashing."
The guy could play in the NBA "D" League, but apparently the money is piss-poor, or they can spend a year elsewhere (eg the NBL) to earn some coin.
I imagine the NBA team can exert some influence over where the player goes, obviously if you're hoping for an NBA contract you're going to pay attention to what they say, and it would seem that the Heat and the Raptors were ok with "their" players spending a season in Perth.
I hardly think that means Perth and Miami are joined at the hip!

Personally, I don't like the idea of short-term imports, I prefer the guys who stay and become part of the franchise, BUT if it yields results, then ok.
Clearly it worked with Ennis. It didn't work with Daniels. Good player (by NBL standards) but not what the Cats needed, took too long to find his role, and wasn't even close to being one of the best imports. IN short, if they can find another Ennis, great, but if its only going to yield another Daniels, then they may as well go back to the conventional methodology of chasing imports.

Apart from the obsession with Miami, why do people think Richardson would be suitable for the Wildcats???
We need another import SG like we need a third tit. So we'd need to know that he can play as a genuine SF, at a minimum. I don't know him from jack, but WHERE is the evidence he can do this.
Kids out of college struggle with the physicality of a pro league. Daniels was a decent height (he's got 3 inches on Richardson) and even he struggled with his inside game in the NBL.
Besides, generally players move outwards as they progress up the leagues. I doubt that Miami are hoping to turn him into a forward.

Furthermore, as was shown with Daniels, trying to substantially retrain a player on a one-year deal, or change your gameplan around him, doesn't deliver enough early on. It's fine if you're hoping to keep him for a few years, but not when you know he's heading home at the end of the season.

Reply #534523 | Report this post


Todd  
Years ago

For me, The NBL should develop stronger links with the NBA. It's better for a NBA club to have a player playing in Australia than Europe, as they can have an out clause, similar culture, and we can develop their skills eg Ennis.

Wildcats should look at 6'5 to 6'7 2/3, who can shoot the three and play above the rim.

Reply #534525 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Apart from the obsession with Miami, why do people think Richardson would be suitable for the Wildcats???
We need another import SG like we need a third tit."

He would play SF in the NBL, which is more similar to SG in the NBA anyway.

Reply #534530 | Report this post


proud  
Years ago

This may sound a bit much but we need someone that doesn't get monstered by Childress, even though most will and find someone that will draw fans not just for his above the rim ability but for match ups with other high flyers in the league.

Perth are doing the right thing with the one and done imports/NBA association AS LONG as the second import is stable and can help acclimatize and with U'U and Ross not here next season then more will be relied upon Dolla to do.

I just hope that we can have the same fun that zen is brought

Reply #534532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Todd, do you have any suggestions? Most guys fitting that description who also genuinely have the skill level to be NBL All-Stars would have been drafted. A number of the names given above would be far from guaranteed to have a significant impact in the NBL. Treveon Graham might give you the size and athleticism you want, but he shot 43% from the field as a senior. Dez Wells shot 50% from beyond the arc but has been under 35% for his career and has character questions.

Could someone persuade Briante Weber to come out here when he's done with rehab? He would go close to being the best perimeter defender in the NBL as a rookie if he recovers ok.

Reply #534533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

When Delly gets waived because the Cavs second round picks are all better than him and no one else in the league wants someone who shot 20% on 2 pointers I'm sure an NBL club would snap him up. Would probably be a top 3 player straight away as long as his new club doesn't let him shoot or throw alleys

Reply #534534 | Report this post


Todd  
Years ago

Ennis was excellent for the Wildcats but the Daniels did not work out.

So you need to do your homework and select a player that suits the team.

For me, go to training camp and approach NBA clubs about suitable players. Their is about 5 or 6 players who could suit the Cats from the recent Draft.

Also, I would like to see the NBA use the NBL as development league and help each other. Win Win situation like the Ennis situation.

Change to NBA rules would be good as well.

Reply #534537 | Report this post


Anonz  
Years ago

Ryan Boatright in the NBL would be a brilliant fit. Saw run Point for Uconn, and he just flat out took to all of the Duke guards when they played (Feb?), unguardable when they went forced transition.

Be a good fit for a run and gun team.

Reply #534540 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

He would play SF in the NBL, which is more similar to SG in the NBA anyway.

I disagree,
besides which, its circular logic.
That's your opinion of what YOU call a SF in the NBL, and that's fine, You can call him a lollypop for all I care, but either way its the last thing the Cats need.
Daniels was too small and too weak inside. Last thing we need is somebody smaller and weaker.

Furthermore, and as per Daniel's example, we don't need another one-season player who takes the first half of the season to find his role.

Not every import we get is going to be the calibre of Ennis, but at least start by aiming for the right type of player.

Reply #534551 | Report this post


a new order  
Years ago

Boatright would be an ideal import for nbl for sure . definite leader and delivers.

Reply #534553 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Christian wood might be a player to look at, undrafted

Reply #534557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing that third tit!

Reply #534558 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Daniels was too small and too weak inside. Last thing we need is somebody smaller and weaker."

The problem was Daniels was a PF. He was at his best inside but didn't have the stroke, handles or shotmaking ability needed to be a consistent perimeter threat.

Reply #534562 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

Bleacher report did a nice article on the grades of all teams draft picks. Here are some highlights of players that could be the cats next import.



No. 58 Overall: J.P. Tokoto, North Carolina, 6'6", SG, Junior

If Tokoto can improve as a shooter, he'll have the chance to become one of the bigger-value picks in the draft.

He's an elite athlete, an above-average passer and a strong wing defender.

Unfortunately, Tokoto's jumper and mechanics are poor. As a 2-guard, he'll need to at least prove he can threaten the defense from behind the arc.

Still, at No. 58, it's certainly worth seeing if he can develop some touch in the D-League



No. 46 Overall (Via Trade): Norman Powell, UCLA, 6'4", SG, Senior

Powell, whom the Raptors landed through a trade, is one of the top athletes in the draft with defensive specialist potential.

He's undersized as a scoring 2-guard, but he's electric in the open floor and a blanket on the wing.

The only thing stopping Powell is his jump shot. If it improves, he'll find a way into Toronto's rotation.





No. 54 Overall (Via Trade): Daniel Diez, Spain, 6'8", SF, 1993

The Blazers traded for Diez, a shooter with excellent size for a wing. He had a breakout year in the Spanish ACB, where he played big minutes at 22 years old.

He'll be a draft-and-stash for Portland with role-player potential.



No. 31 Overall (Via Trade): Cedi Osman, Macedonia, 6'8", SG/SF, 1995

The Cavaliers landed Osman through a trade with the Wolves. He's one of the most productive young players abroad with the versatility that should light up NBA eyes.

He'll spend the next few years overseas, but long term, this could be a sensational investment.



No. 39 overall: Juan Vaulet, Argentina, 6'6", SF, 1996 (trade)

The Nets landed Vaulet after trading Mason Plumee. Vaulet is a textbook draft-and-stash option whose athleticism and motor do his talking.

Don't expect to see Vaulet in the NBA in 2015-16.



No. 51 Overall: Tyler Harvey, Eastern Washington, 6'4", Junior, Sophomore

Harvey led the country in scoring and three-pointers made. He's an incredible shot-maker, but at 6'4" with limited athleticism, he could have a tough time separating in the NBA.

Still, at No. 51, Harvey was worth drafting, though he'll likely end up in the D-League or overseas in 2015-16.

No. 40 Overall: Josh Richardson, Tennessee, 6'6", SG, Junior

Richardson wasn't invited to the combine, but his stock jumped during workouts. He has prototypical 2-guard size, as well as smooth athleticism and the ability to score from all three levels.

He even handled the ball for Tennessee, where he racked up his fair share of assists.

Richardson will need a year in the D-League or overseas, but he'll have a shot to win a bench role due to his offensive versatility.



No. 45 Overall: Marcus Thornton, William & Mary, 6'4", SG, Senior

Thornton is an undersized scorer, though he can light it up from three and separate into jumpers from all over.

But he lacks the size of a shooting guard and passing instincts of a point. Odds are Thornton winds up in Europe or the D-League.





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Anonymous  
Years ago

Tokoto's a ridiculous athlete, but his shooting isn't the only reason he fell to 58. He was a turnover machine at UNC. I'm not sure the pace of the NBL would do him any favours, because right now he's not much more than a decent defender and spectacular transition threat.

None of the guys currently in Europe are coming to the NBL, how would that make any sense?

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Todd  
Years ago

People forgot that you need to make wing span to height to get a true idea how big somebody is.

6'4 shooting guard with a long wing span play the 3 spot in the NBL, especially is they have the hops.

For me the Wildcats need to a wing player who play the 2/3 who can shoot the three and take it to the hole.

Here is a possible list from the late first round to the end of the second round.

RJ Hunter pick 28 Celtics - 6'6 wing span 6'11 and hops 2'9. Seems like an average shooter, but good high IQ, rebounds and defends well.

Kevon Looney pick 30 Warriors - 6'9 wing span 7'1 can make threes, rebounds well, good passer. Needs to develop handles to play the 3 spot in the NBA and needs to get more strength. (This should be the Cats prime target as the Warriors are a very deep team and this kid may not make the team, and an one or two years in the NBL might work well for the Cats and Warriors)

Anthony Brown pick 34 Lakers - 6'7 wing span 6'11 hops 2'10. Great 3pt shooter, can get to rim, good rebounder and good passer. Needs more stength.

Darrun Hilliard pick 38 Pistons - 6'6 shooter (not alot of information on the NBA website about him)

More later




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Baller#3  
Years ago

What about someone like cliff alexander? 6"7' PF. Was supposed to be a machine but struggled due to a number of reasons.

Sign him for a couple years, throw in the NBA out clauses and give him a chance to prove him self. If he can come over and get 20 and 10 then they will surely give him a shot in the NBA.

Reply #534592 | Report this post


Tom  
Years ago

Cliff Alexander is interesting. But Montrezl Harrell would be a great addition to the Sixers

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Guys like cliff Alexander and Christian wood would struggle in the NBL. The reason NBA clubs are looking at them is because they are prospects (not ready yet, but one day may be great). It's similar to why Ater Majok gets drafted by the Lakers and can't score 4 points in the NBL.

Look for players who had 3-4year college careers and those who did well at big schools/conferences. Scottie Wilkebin (Florida) and Roteni Clarke (Butler) are 2 good examples.

I think Quinn Cook or Ryan Boatwright would be good additions to any NBL club looking for PG who can play in pressure situations

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Dazz  
Years ago

The problem was Daniels was a PF. He was at his best inside but didn't have the stroke, handles or shotmaking ability needed to be a consistent perimeter threat.

You couldn't be more WRONG.

Daniels MAY have played PF at COLLEGE, where his height and athleticism gave him the edge over a bunch of skinny kids who didn't like playing D.

The Wildcats NEEDED a PF type, but Daniels got monstered everytime he went near the bucket. He was great when he had space, a good leap and easy dunk, but he couldn't post to save himself.
His pull-up jumper was ok too, again provided nobody got in his way.

As I've said, the Cats adapted to his abilities (and shortcomings) and allowed him to play more of his natural game as the season went on, but he was never quite what they needed.

With Redage nearing retirement, (and Wagstaff plateauing) they desperately need more inside scoring power.
Yes, they want somebody that can hit 3's (doesn't everyone?) but they NEED somebody who can post.
I realise that may not fit with everyone's definition of a SF, and may even be seen as old-fashioned, but that's the way the Cats play, and its not going to change with the current line-up.

Yes sure, their 3-point shooting was woeful last season and needs to improve, but they don't need all of that to come from their 3 spot.
Martin had lost his scoring mojo, U'U (after some early form) couldn't hit the side of a barn, and Ross blew his achilles.
They've added Greenwood (whom I understand can play 1 or 2) and they'll be looking for another quality bench guard (hopefully somebody who can nail the 3.)
Either Martin gets his Mojo back, or we'll see Hugh running the point for extended minutes. Either way, they'll be looking to their guards to fill most of the gap, with contributions from their forwards.

Reply #534612 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

People forgot that you need to make wing span to height to get a true idea how big somebody is.

6'4 shooting guard with a long wing span play the 3 spot in the NBL, especially is they have the hops.

You also need to take BIG consideration of how STRONG the player is. Daniels, had Height, Wingpsan, and an impressive jump, but was as skinny as a weed. I've seen bigger legs on a Flamingo.
When he found an opening, he was quick, and could make great dunks, but he wasn't strong enough to take it to the bucket against physical opposition.
At the other end, he pulled off some fantastic blocks, again where he got a clear run & jump, but he couldn't hold out somebody posting him up.
Ennis was actually shorter, but much stronger.

Plus, lets not forget the SKILL factor.

For me the Wildcats need to a wing player who play the 2/3 who can shoot the three and take it to the hole.

At the end of the day, they can make use of any GUN (by NBL standards) Player in the range of 2/3 right through to another PF.
Their "Perfect" player would be one with the size and strength to play (and defend) inside, who can also hit 3's and defend the wing.
He doesn't have to be the biggest guy out there, they have Knight, Jervis, Redhage, and Wagstaff, but must have the skills, athleticism, and be big ENOUGH. Somebody around the Childress size would be ideal.

Obviously no player is "perfect" and I know they ARE looking for a 3, so I just hope they find somebody with enough inside game.

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Dazz  
Years ago

Christian wood might be a player to look at, undrafted

It's a weird process. Undrafted, but already picked up by the Rockets as a Free Agent...
Otherwise, yeah,a 6'11" PF would have been awesome in the NBL. He could have doubled as a centre for most NBL teams.

Reply #534619 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Kevon Looney pick 30 Warriors - 6'9 wing span 7'1 can make threes, rebounds well, good passer. Needs to develop handles to play the 3 spot in the NBA and needs to get more strength. (This should be the Cats prime target as the Warriors are a very deep team and this kid may not make the team, and an one or two years in the NBL might work well for the Cats and Warriors)

Wow, if they can't fit him under their salary cap, he should do very well in the NBL

Anthony Brown pick 34 Lakers - 6'7 wing span 6'11 hops 2'10. Great 3pt shooter, can get to rim, good rebounder and good passer. Needs more stength.

Could be interesting as his was their 3rd pick in the draft, and they are supposedly unlikely to take 3 rookies into next season.

But where to most such players end up? The D-League? Minor League teams? Europe?

Reply #534621 | Report this post


Juno 73  
Years ago

Dazz - NFI

Reply #534632 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

What about Paul Pierce

Reply #534668 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"You couldn't be more WRONG... The Wildcats NEEDED a PF type."

Perhaps the best way to explain this is by looking at last year's Perth roster and their positional skillsets without that second import spot.

Jervis 5
Knight 4/5
Redhage 3/4
Wagstaff 3/4
Hire 3/4
Ross 2/3
Beal 1/2
U'u 1/2
Martin 1

Had the Wildcats signed a 2/3 ala Ennis they would have put together a balanced line-up. However, by signing their fourth 3/4 they left themselves unbalanced and short of creators.

I'm pretty sure they won't make the same mistake this year.

Reply #535170 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Not sure what's got you so confused?

The issue between Ennis and Daniels, is that Ennis was a MUCH better player. Ennis went on to play NBA, not sure where Daniels will finish up...

Saying "oh, they won't make that mistake again" is really rather ridiculous.
I hardly think the Cats deliberately targeted a worse player!?!

The Wildcats ARE looking for a "3". Period. Within that, they will look for the most promising player they can find. Naturally we all hope for somebody better than Ennis, but if luck doesn't hold we could end up with somebody worse than Daniels.

As for WHY Ennis was better, well we could debate that all night.
In a nutshell:
BOTH are notionally "Small Forwards" who of course played "bigger" at College, and whom you'd expect similar at NBL.
Daniels is taller with a better leap, Ennis is much stronger and more physical.
Ennis is a SF because he's only 6'7", but he was still a good size for NBL, which is what the Cats needed.
Daniels is 6'9" but skinny as a rake. In college he played inside, because his height & leap allowed him to best skinny college kids with no D.
In the NBL he wasn't strong enough to play inside, and his outside game just wasn't that good.

As I said. The Wildcats are looking for a(nother) "3". Put simply they want a Forward who can also shoot 3's and defend the perimeter on D.
Personally, with Redhage getting older, I would prefer they get somebody with a stronger inside game, but if they get another weed then he needs to be able to light it up from outside (which Daniels couldn't.)

Reply #535186 | Report this post


proud  
Years ago

I agree with you Dazz but I don't think that Daniels was as big a bust as you suggest.

There was a period there where Daniels kept us in games where Beal did absolutely nothing for about 4 games and I mean he failed to attack the rim... Thinking of away game vs NZ where he scored like 3 points off a long jumper and could barely get to the line and Daniels was a beast on the boards...

Daniels would have been better in a different team but I still hope that the Wildcats get more of an Ennis type than a DD type.

If Wagstaff leaves then I'd like to get Cost Ellis and I'd love a knock down shooter like James Harvey or Peter Crawford to return and offer something we haven't had off the bench in a while

Reply #535206 | Report this post




 

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