Yeah i mean Sydney have only won the last 3 championships in a row, oh lets not forget he's one of their best players, yeah he can't be that good

Jason Smith shouldn't even be in the same fantasy league as Andrew Gaze.

I know this isn't always accurate, but Jason Smith has more championships than Andrew Gaze... and you can't say Gaze didn't have a good team, with Bradtke and Copeland, Gaze might be a better individual player, but Smith is arguably a better team player?

ELG, did you read the article? It says he is the "best player in the league" and that he is on par with Heal and Gaze.

Even a Sydney supporter would scoff at that.

i dont have a problem with that statement....jason smith has lead the kings to 3 titles in a row which has never been achieved in the NBL....and his season last year was outstanding....would you have a problem if someone made that statement about brett maher??

No. Gaze has daylight between he and ANY other Aussie player IMO.

Longley had succes at NBA level as a significant contributor, but at Olympic, International and NBL level Gaze is simply a freak. His NBL stats will probably never be replicated

There is daylight between Gaze and Heal, and more daylight between Heal and many other Aussies, including guys like Maher and Vlahov.

Smith comes in somewhere behind them

sorry. My last post was in answer to ELG's post#43611

I would not agree if someone put Maher in the same league as Gaze.

Well, gong on that statement alone and by that criteria then Paul Rees is the greatest ever to grace the pine.

Individually, yes. But he has never got the results of say, Jordan, who is regarded as the NBA's best.

^^ That one was aimed at thedoctor. This is getting confusing!

i think he would be close to the best player in the league....would not be far off at all....but i also dont think he is in the same league as heal and gaze....
if you were talking about the top 10 or 15 australian players of all time though....he would have to be somewhere around the mark.

The first Kings championship was lead by Shane Heal and Chris Williams (a gun import)
The second Kings Championship was lead mainly by Neilson in what was his best year in the NBL.
The third Kings Championship was a mixture of Smith-Roberts-Bruton.

He has had Gun players take the lead in 2 of the 3 titles.

Issac can you find out in the first 2 titles what smiths stats were?

He is a Very good player but I wouldn't take him in my top 5 fantasy pick

Correct me if I am wrong but Jason Smith has only led the Kings to one championship, not three.

He wasn't a member of their first championship team.

He was out for almost the entire season during the Kings second championship after doing his knee and was replaced by import Chris Carrawell from Duke.

When healthy Smith is a great player but it is an insult to mention him as one of the greatest of all time.

"in the ilk of some of the greatest to ever play NBL.."

'Pull the other one', says Smith to Heal.

Love to see Smith go against any great in their prime - Leroy vs Smith... know who'd my money would be on.

Last 2 games at the dome Smith had 3 fouls before he had scored and was schooled by Brett on defense.

Smith is a handy player but certainly no where near greatest in the NBL, does he even have an MVP finals or other wise?

on paper at least, i think smith has done about as much as maher...so if you would include maher in the greats of australian basketball then smith is going to have to be there......maybe even more so, as smith has done more at olympic level than maher.

checked my self after writing above he was 2005 finals mvp

he had better offensive stats in 2000 than in 2005 and averages career less than 13 points per game!!

Yoy Yo Yo this is Trippin zzz
That boy 'Smith' aint got no skilllz like my main man Lebron James and Stephon Marbury. Yo Id tear up dat fool on da weekends in Frankston at da court near Safeway Shops if he were to step to my front. Aight. Peace to my boooy Kent Brockman...you can shoot da trey but yo dont got game
SHOUT OUT TO THE FLY BITCHES IN DA FOODCOURT AT FRANKSTON SHOPS

Gertrude,

On an international level Maher isn't given the same sort of minutes that Smith is, so of course more minutes means more production so I think that is an unfair comparison.

IMO Maher is a hell of a lot more humble than Smith and I would take Maher in my team to be a leader before Smith. Maher shows all of the leadership qualities and is team orientated whereas I think Smith is not.

If Jason Smith was the best player in the league, wouldn't he have won, or at least contested, the MVP race last year?

Quality player, but not the best in the league.

His woofing has virtually guaranteed that the Kings won't make it four in a row!

Bizzy, Smith is humble in my opinion, I have never heard him sprout off his mouth.

Not in the top 50 alltime NBL players if you count imports

Not in the top 25 alltime NBL players if you count Ozzys only

Good player, good athlete, can stroke the 3.

Brad Newley has been in the League 1 season and will go past Smith soon.

Isaac, I was going to mention that thing called MVP, but obviously the Kings people don't think it means anything.

Last year Adelaide had 3 guys I'd take over Smith.

Just did a little comparison of smith vs maher.

Career stats
ppg rbpg apg
Brett 16.8 4.3 4.1
Smith 12.3 4.2 1.6

who would you rather take??

2005 saw Brett and Smith numbers almost the same both had 19ppg smith had 7 boards per game against Bretts 4 while assists saw brett have 7 against smiths 4

I love how everyone bags Jason Smith even though NBA scouts labelled him as the only player with the body structure to compete in the NBA (two years ago). I think thats a fair call to make. I realise he is yet to play the NBA and probably never will but if they thought he could play then I would think he is a decent player

I think that Jason smith is one of the best players in the league right now. At this point in time I wouldn't say he is in the greatest couple of players of all time but who knows in a couple of years he may have proven him self just that good. I don't think that you can say that he isn't the best player in the league just because he didn't get MVP of the season, because in my eyes the MVP trophy should go to the best player on the best team in the league and last year he was that leading them all the way to the championship.

C'mon people, how did this get to be Smith vs Maher? This was about how ludicrous the statements made in the article were.

Who in their right mind would say Jason Smith is one of the NBL greats - what a load. No way would I hold him up their with Loggins, Gaze, Grace, Borner, Smyth and their esteemed company. Not even in the same paragraph! I'm just flabergasted how someone could make such a ridiculous statement - obviously know alot about the NBL don't they Gertrude and Gorilla? Pffffff!

And who in their right mind would put Smith over Maher anyway - more load.

For the record:
Maher -
Reg season 16.8ppg, 4.1 ass, 4.3 reb
Playoffs - 16.3ppg, 4.6 ass, 4.6 reb
* 4 more seasons than Smith - 3000 more career points!
* Playoff MVP and money man.

Smith -
Reg season 12.3ppg, 1.6 ass, 4.2 reb
Playoffs 9.2ppg, 1.2 ass, 4.1 reb
* taller and heavier than Maher.
* Playoff choker!

Some interesting facts -
Career stats show Maher has played 4 more seasons...
Steals 602, to Smith 249 - so Maher has averaged 42 a season to Smith 24.
Fouls 674, to Smith 543 - Maher ave 48 a season to Smith 54
Assists 1722, to Smith 477 - Maher ave 123 a season to Smith 47.
Points 7255, to Smith 3504 - averages as above but note that Maher has scored 3751 more points in 4 more seasons than Smith, which is more than Smith has tallied in his CAREER of 10 SEASONS!

Yeah, JS is an NBL great my ar*e!

Plus Maher is a point guard and only a point guard and smith is a 2/3 player. I'm still looking for the rebounding stats from wak. Notice you left them out. It is impossible to compare these two players. I will say that I do however agree with wak in that he is not one of the NBL greats

Jason Smith wasn't on that Oz97 team.

I believe Saville was on that team, not Smith.

From the BA Website for OZ 97

Team: Frank Drmic, Simon Dwight, Scott McGregor, Brendan Mann, Ben Melmeth, Matthew Nielsen, Aaron Trahair, Sam Mackinnon, Phil Doherty, Ben Pepper, Brad McKinnon, Chris Anstey

Anyone with the nickname "Twin Air" deserves to be bagged.

Moscow, reread the thread, rebound stats have been posted earlier.

Jason Smith one of the best last year, agreed.

Jason Smith of the greatest NBL player of all time. Not by a long shot.....

Did not want to make this a Smith v Maher convo just threw in the stats comparison to demonstrate that the stats will do the talking in the end.

In time people will look at the career stats of players just as we do know with early NBL and NBA.

Oscar Robertson once average a trible double for the entire season but this one season does not make him the greatest in the NBA history.

I'm a one eyed, die hard Kings fan and I certainly wouldn't consider Smith one of the 'greatest of all time'. I wouldn't even put him in the 'All Time Great' Kings starting 5. Having said that, the guy is a massive asset to his team. Awesome defender. Athletic as all hell. Brilliant leader - particularly last season where so often he was obviously the guy completely in control of the Kings. Grabs a game by the nuts in the clutch. I think if all the Australian players in the NBL today were taken away from their teams and lumped into a draft, Smith would be easily, easily picked top 5.

Another thing to remember is that he may not be that 'great' in an all time or even current sense, but the NBL seem to have tagged him as the public face of the League. In that sense I think he's a good choice. He's a nice guy who's not going to screw up. He's a winner. He's great with the media. He's a stand out on court. He's a lock in Boomer. The NBL post-Gaze & Heal desperately needs a couple of stars. DESPERATELY. Like him or loathe him in a Kings uniform - he's a good public representative for the NBL.

ok well i think the maher vc smith debate is almost at its end.
i will certainly concede that maher has had a much better NBL career than smith, however if you take note of smith contribution at international level, he would have to win back a few pegs of maher.....maher has not been given the opportunity...i agree, but so what.....
if you were to decide who to take in this years fantasy, it would be close.

Frank (#43747), totally agree with you in all aspects. Good to see that a Kings supporter writes with common sense.

Gertrude, this was not to be a debate about why Maher is better than Smith, this was to point out how ludicrous the statements were in the article on Smith's signing.
Scroll up and see who started this 'debate' about Maher and Smith - (#43613).
If I were you I'd be pulling out about now too (probably three posts too late).

And just for you Moscow since you say I convienently left them out (i didn't think they were relevant for a G/SG) -
Career rebs:
Maher off 621 def 1260 total 1881
Smith off 379 def 793 total 1172

So, Maher has played 4 more seasons:
Maher ave 134, Smith ave 117.

You say Smith is a 2/3 player... so Maher being a 1/2 beats him again in a stat that Maher shouldn't.
Anything else to say?

* all stats from NBL site

alright wak, you made your point....just adding a few points for some healthy debate is all i was doing....i think the article is a bit over the top...but no more so than your original statement "biggest load of crap i have read in a long time"....it is not as far off the point as you would like to believe....you may just be a little one eyed....let me guess you think heal played too much at the last olympics??

Damn Gertrude you really want and argument, there are a lot of strong feelings on here about how the Boomers were coached at the Olympics.

Heal did play too much. Watch the last 10 mins of every Boomers match when guys like Heal and Bogut were stuffed. We were in every game until fitness took over.

Not saying Maher should have played ahead of Heal, but he was more than solid when he was on and should have been used more in his intended role. That is to give the starters a decent break allowing them to perform in the clutch.

That's not written as a Sixers fan, but an Aussie who wants to see the Boomers win, and I have much respect for Heal's game.

Well said Kent, I'd think you'd want to leave that one right alone gertrude.

We all know Maher should have gotten more minutes but we won't discuss that.

i was not referring to maher not playing enough...i agree with all you people on that one, but i was just trying to make a point that maybe wak is a little one eyed....and i knew that he would be one of the heal haters that cant recognise the mans talent....he would be in our top 3 basketballing olympians ever in my opinion...yet all these anti-healers shout out just cos we came 9th, that he was played too much...rubbish. yes maher should have played more, but some of brutons minutes IMO.
geez, you guys jumped all over my heal comment.....settle, healthy discussion.

I like Heal ever since the day he dropped 6 threes on the Dream Team and chested up Barkley. That was gold.

He is an arrogant f*ck, but I like his game. Agreed he is top 3 international Aussies of all time.

thankyou doctor....i am not trying to be an annoying guy. good to see someone agree with something i say.
good discussion though people.

I don't know if he is as arrogant as he is confident?

He had the same confidence and swagger of a Michael Jordan* sometimes out there on the court

* NOTE NOT COMPARING PLAYING ABILITIES!!

I was never a huge fan of heal but i can't call him some of the names people call him in these posts

Nope Heal is a tool, his game was way too inconsistant.

He had one good game against the Dream Team and built a career on that. Good on him but he is way to over rated for mine.

The only title he won was due to the talent of the imports and not much due to him.

He is way to quick to shoot his mouth off and has little to back it up with, no class and no style.

Yes he played in the NBA but it was as a bench player for a team that struggled to win any games. He was a passenger on a very bad team.
I quote Ricky Simpson " if your not getting minutes in that squad you know you aint got game"

Brett out played Heal in almost every contest they had.

Carfino has even rated Brett as better than Heal.

Could it be that Goorjian doesn't rate Maher as a defender? Goorjian makes no secret that he picks his teams on defensive ability first, which is why he covets the likes of Jason Smith so much.

I think Maher is a solid defender at NBL level but he struggles to contain his guy at an international level. Or maybe that's just me?

Kent, listening to everything Carfino says about ball is like taking financial advice from Steve Vizard.

The year Kings won their first 'ship I believe Heal lead the league in points AND assists. I'd say he contributed a fair bit.

Am I defending Shane Heal?? This is twighlight zone material...

LOL at #43852.

Yes, Brett struggles to contain me at international level - if I'm one of those 6-4 Eastern European guards who are lightning quick but also shoot the lights out anywhere from the halfway line in.

I don't think Heal does a much better job at this than Maher, but it was better enough (in Goorjian's mind) to give him 30+ minutes a game at Athens.

oh god....30 plus minutes a game....that is the most ridiculous thing i have heard this week....the game is only 40 minutes long....maher was never going to play more than 20.
and kent, pretty much your whole last post was just laughable....but heal making a career on one good game.....that is a shocking statement, and so far off the mark that i decline to comment on it further. heal was a damn good player, end of discussion.

Doc i think you will find that Chris Williams led the league in scoring that year.

As far as Carfino goes he is a former King ( excuse me while i slip into John Cassey mode) former league MVP runner up and 2 time NBL All Star who rates Maher better than Heal.

Gertrude lets say Heal had a dud game against the Dream Team, do you still think he would have been asked to summer camp?

Also for the record Heal lead the league in assists the year before (01/02) when he was busy leading his team out of the playoffs.

So i stand by my original comment that it was the imports who one the championship rather than the excellent play of Heal.

Gertrude, yes I am a one-eyed supporter ... of fact over fiction!

Yes, I would be one of those 'Heal-haters' as you so eloquently put it. Why would I admire an egotistical, selfish player who is not team orientated. Heal is great for the Boomers but played the wrong role last Olympics - tried to be a star when the team needed a leader.

You stated "let me guess you think heal played too much at the last olympics??" ... well, duh! You didn't think that? You thought Heal should have been on court jacking up long bombs from nowhere while fatigued, blindly 'leading' a team by taking everything into his own hands?

As for your statement that Heal is in top 3 of all time Olympians... give me a break!.
Some names to think about - Werner Linde, Eddie Palubinskas, Andris Blicavs, Phil Smyth, Andrew Gaze, Ray Borner, Larry Sengstock, Andrew Vlahov, Mark Bradtke ... to name but a few.
You'd seriously put Heal ahead of this group?
Farcical.

As for my "biggest load of crap i have read in a long time" statement that you questioned... I now stand corrected, as your posts now take that title.

Healthy discussion.