Anonymous
Years ago
Does anyone have an opinion on the Cavs and their junior program? They seem to be a club on the rise, new stadium coming and there teams seems to be grading higher every year. Any help would be appreciated, thinking of bringing my kid over.
Anonz
Years ago
There are other questions that need to be asked first, ie; where do his/her mates play, what age group are we talking, what level etc.
Can't speak for the Girls program, but the boys don't have any VC presence until you get down to 14s, and that's the only one. A quick check shows only one Girls team in VC (U20).
Unless you are in the area, there may be better options.
So Age / level / Geography details needed before we can provide any sort of feedback
First season of Rep for her, U12, Cranbourne South we live, she probably won't play for Australia but I am cool with that just want her to enjoy a more competitive game and if she enjoys it go from there. Have no expectations, playing in a VJL 1 or 2 in U12's would be great but again no expectations. Me coaching, doesn't have to be my daughter, would be happy in U14G as I have coached boys and girl rep before up to VJL1. Very quick to say don't bother, I have seen there are massive issues at Frankston, wouldn't touch Steelers or Gulls and we wouldn't be allowed at Breakers with their new policy of having to have played 12mths of domestic before you can play Rep for them (crazy rule).
Anonz
Years ago
Then Casey, given your Crannie location, would be a perfect fit, as they appear to be working hard to grow something.
I'm not involved with that particular program. Given your proximity to other clubs which seem to be in upheaval, I think Casey are the better option.
Casey has a monopoly on their region, a decent stadium setup and plenty of kids in their competitions yet have no boys VC teams and I don't think they ever have had one (stand to be corrected).
As a great comparison, a club like Oakliegh who are so much smaller than Casey and fight for their lives for kids against the likes of Waverley, McKinnon & Sandringham and have only been in existence for a short time.
Yet have had 5 VC teams in five years and their U16's and U18's both in VC this year. What's the difference?
Seems to me like Casey invest way too much in their BIG V men. Maybe they should invest a little more in their juniors and build from the ground up. They should be a power club with their assets.
Anonz
Years ago
Re : #542498
There's a difference.
A large number of the older kids at Oakleigh, have been at other programs. I know because I've coached and cut some of them in previous years, and know other names from prior seasons.
Casey appear to be building things from the ground up. Yes they spent a bit of money on BigV, but that's what you need to do when your program hasn't yet generated the players needed to fill roster spots at that level. The BigV (or SEABL) team needs to be relatively strong as an aspirational target for younger athletes.
And BTW Oakleigh has one boys team in VC (18s) as does Casey (14s).
Want a comparison ? (Boys teams used) :
Oakleigh 20.1 - Met5
Casey 20.1 - Met1
Oakleigh 18.1 - VC
Casey 18.1 - Met1
Oakleigh 16.1 - VC Res
Casey 16.1 - Met3
Oakleigh 14.1 - Met4
Casey 14.1 - VC
Oakleigh 12.1 - Met2
Casey 12.1 - VC Res
So at the grassroots, Casey actually have a stronger platform, which should translate into 16s and 18s whereas Oakleigh may struggle in 2 years time, although not a big difference, each has one team in VC and one team in VC Reserve (Boys).
The reason I suggested Casey is that it's the least broken large program in the area, and the likelihood is that daughter will establish new friendships with kids also in the area, and training attendance won't be a chore or an onerous expense for the parents by having to travel further to say, Waverley or Sandringham or Dandenong on a Mon/Tues evening and/or Sunday morning.
I'm also going to repeat that I am not in any way affiliated with the Casey Cavaliers in any way etc etc.
Appreciate your comments and honesty, agree it does seem the least broken program on the Peninsula, if you include it in that. I wanted Frankston but they seem to be in termoil for the past 3-4yrs and if the rumours are correct coaches are applying elsewhere due to how people are being treated, that's why I was interested in Casey. I believe they have finances for their new courts and are on the rise in the VJBL.
Interesting you mention that you wouldn`t touch some of the other clubs, recent history shows they are far more successful then where Casey is. A shinny new statdium has nothing to do withthe quality or strength of there program. Casey by default should grow and grow over the next 10 years - They are in one of the largest growth corridors in Australia if they don`t capitalise on that its a farce.
Certainly seem to be moving in the right direction though but your comments about other associations do make me laugh.
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
The comment RE: New courts show that they have the finances to do so; which shows financial stability which is important for an association to keep the doors open.....this is important to me; perhaps not you? I can go into all the issues regarding Steelers, Breakers, Blues and Gulls, could also add Sth Pen if you like? I understand all associations will have issues; if you peel away the layers of any association you will always find skeletons. In my opinion Steelers has a lack of coaching depth and rankings, Mornington won't take new players unless they have played 12mths domestically there and rankings have declined majorly in the past 24-36mths, Chelsea really are struggling in a lot of fascists, Sth Pen seem to be torn between elite Rep and giving players a chance (not to mention too far for me to travel) and Frankston are trying to find themselves after 4-8yrs of, in their opinion 'below par performances'......these are obviously my opinions from many I have spoken, past and present people at each association. They just don't seem to fit what I am looking for, Casey will also have their issues but they tick a lot of boxes for ME and my daughter.
If your daughter is any good I would send her to Frankston, u/12 girls looking good, don't believe everything you hear, or everything you read on this forum, lots of people with axes to grind
TP
Years ago
You get what you put into any program.
If you get caught up with the crap of Politics within any basketball club there is going to be problems. At the end of the day you're there because you son/daughter loves basketball and if there happy so should you.
I am Involved at the cavs program. The Girls program have some quality coaches involved and Michael Davies as the Head of the girls program is doing a great job in streamlining the program and create a structure for all coaches and players to go with.
Balance is your key here. You have already admitted two things OP, you can coach and would be prepared to, plus your kid is a good player but probably not elite.
So, as with any choice you have to do some due diligence and when it comes to choosing the right basketball program the balance comes in the following:
Distance - choose wisely so you travel time isn't a burden.
Director of coaching - Speak to people and find out who this person is and what they have done, what is their intentions and are they going to stay, are they new etc...
CEO - Find out if the Association is stable and if the head of the organisation is a good leader, are they financially in a good place for you to be happy in years to come, is there direction and good pathways.
Cover these acts and then get a feel for the place, you can at least say you have done your homework, even if it ends up no good for you. Do these things in addition to all the other checks you will be doing of course, to get a feel for the place!
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
Wise words #533, leaves 2 clubs who I am about the same travel distance from, Frankston and Casey. I know of Steve at Frankston, he is very good and knows his stuff but tries to do too much and this makes him seem very unorganised. Have been told they will have a DOC for the girls and one for the boys; sounds great but who are they? I suggest this won't be known till after tryouts. Tryouts at Frankston seem late? Is this a reflection of being unorganised? Apparently some tournament over Cup weekend is planned, again I have not seen this advertised yet? Positives: SEABL, junior rankings high, quality players, knowledgeable coaches etc.
Casey: No idea who the DOC is? Rankings not great but on the improve for the past 4 years, lack of quality coaches but again improving. Seem to be on the rise and financially stable.
I think they are both good clubs, obviously the both have flaws and strengths....doesn't make it any easier. I may not get a coaching gig so that may factor also lol
Don`t kid yourself into thinking that it is Casey money going into the stadium that is council.You want elite go Frankston they have the VYCW and they have the SEABL to aspire to. 5 years away for yor daughter youd assume things that are planned will be underway by then. Casey will keep growing that is a sure thing. Quantity over quality right now though.
What you have said about the other two in WP and Chelsea might be correct but they are still ranking higher then Casey and with much less resources, so who is really doing it well then?
Fact is places like Casey, Pakenham in these huge growth corridors should be doing very well. Sure they will always lose there cream to Dandenong etc as the kids want that elite pathway.
$$ Will get Casey make program into state champ, but this year and past years shows that the womens side of things is an after thought and if you think anything they have there right now is lifting that standard with in three years you are dreaming.
Huge fish in a small pond right now. Underperforming given the domestic pool they have to pull from.
Mornington Pen, interested if you can provide some more depth to your comments as I myself am looking around. What lack of depth does WP have and what issues do Chelsea have. Seems like both of there junior programs are moving up the ranks and increasing. Chelsea had all four senior teams in finals with one playing off for a grand final for promotion via winning not buying. Wp all three team made finals, one winning it last year and another about to play off for promotion VIA WINNING NOT BUYING.
#542500
Your post simply demonstrates on what I am saying about Casey underachieving.
If all you can claim about Casey is that it is about the same level as Oakleigh then that's a pretty poor achievement for a club with Casey's size, resources and monopoly of it's region.
Also would be interested in which boys you say are from other programs at Oakleigh, most of them have been at the club from the start. They do take in players that have been cut and develop them as they don't have the same depth as clubs nearby. But that is a plus for their program not a negative. Imagine what they could do with Casey's resources
Hope one of the boys you cut isn't the one who is now blossoming playing in their U18 VC team and BIG V squad,after being cut entirely from his previous program. Apparenlty a bottom age kid who wasn't good enough for a fifth team at his previous club.
An example of what Casey should be striving for is Hawthorns program. A few years ago it wasn't achieving much they used their $$$ to get some decent coaching and now they have all their boys teams in VC champ division from u12's through to U18's. In the girls all but their U16 girls teams are in VC.
That should be Caey's goal, but i don't think they will ever realize it unless they do what Hawthorn have done and get the right people in place.
Look slike Lester is doing some good things and putting back into Casey which is good. not sure what the others that are being paid are doing. hopefully the same. they brought in some good quality players this season for the mens side. you would hope that they are giving back and developing the club and it is not being left to the existing players who were cast aside for them.
Casey ex Dandenong people running the ship and in leading positions. Successful backgrounds then you would assume, only question why are they not at Dandy anymore?
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
#561 you are kidding yourself, very few juniors in the senior team (men and women) from WP and this is reflected in the fact that I am hearing grumblings from committee members it will change as are not happy with this. YL men dropped a division from last year and the woman's team only won last year with 2-3 players who were juniors who were not playing big minutes if any then bring in a Div 1 player from the states who averages 28ppg for them.....how do you figure that as a success? Men's team this year are paying more than $40000+ for a coach (who isn't running their junior program and should be) and player; hmmm would of thought money better spent elsewhere or they may just end up like Sherbrook with Championship senior teams and your juniors all playing regional. Chelsea's junior program has never recovered from the Frankston/Chelsea split many years ago and coaching depth is poor.
Mornington Pen, Pretty much the same accusations you are leveling at other clubs are mirrored at your beloved Casey Cavaliers and that is my point. You are saying one club is poor in an area and praising another club that is poor in the same area.
And I think you will find there is even more outside players on the wy to top up your Casey Team.
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
Firstly it's not my beloved Casey, I was merely weighing up options which were short listed to Casey and Frankston. Secondly my opinion can't be wrong cause it's 'MY OPINION', you can't just tell someone to change their opinion unless they are asking for your opinion and that was at the start of this thread. I think I have clearly formed a view based on others offering opinions and my own views; this has been relayed in the comments I have made. I am fully aware of my comments and views and that may sound similar to you but it's not how it sounds to you that counts is it? I do appreciate your input though it's now irrelevant as I know where I will take my daughter.
Mornington Peninsula.
What Age group you looking at?
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
If I coach my daughter U12's or U14-16 Girls, would be too tempting to interfere if I was in her age group so best to remove me from temptation HAHAHA
Casey riddled with bastketball tragics and rejects moved on from Rangers.
If you can get a game or coaching gig at Rangers make your way to Cavs.
Anonymous
Years ago
Frankston only concentrate on the "elite", and there aren't many of them. Casey seem to be growing and would be the best choice in the area.
A SEABL club should concentrate on being Elite, in fact all rep clubs should. It is representative basketball, in the early 2000`s when Basketball went from quality to quantity was the start of everything we have now.
the plus side is more people playing that game. But the talent strecthed so far that we have 25% at least of the BIG V and VJBL team out there being of a level that should not be playing.
Anonz
Years ago
Re #542734
"Casey riddled with bastketball tragics and rejects moved on from Rangers.
If you can get a game or coaching gig at Rangers make your way to Cavs"
Lovely sentiment, thanks for that. I imagine you meant to say "if you can't get a game etc etc". At the very least, if you're going to post rubbish like this, then spell-check it for grammar and typos.
And we'll then very conveniently gloss over the damage DG is doing to that program and the subsequent loss of player and Coaching talent.
Damage being done to what progrma? Casey or Dandy?
Anonz
Years ago
Sorry, damage being done to Dandenong.
And DG being the CEO.
MRT
Years ago
Would like to know how many domestic teams Hawthorn, Dandenong and other associations have.
It's all in the 2014 BV annual report, the main ones are (incl both senior and junior);
Broadmeadows 262
Bulleen 312
Casey 491
Dandenong 834
Diamond Valley 611
Eltham 193 (doesn't show any junior numbers)
Frankston 693
Hawthorn 727 (incl 246 mini teams)
Kilsyth 1158
Knox 1110
Ringwood 304
Sandringham 654
All onthat list are in State Champ or SEABL and have VYC teams. So going by the size of Casey as people have suggested before they bat well below there average. Rather then using some of the numbers they have they imported nearly a whole team for the mens side and it still didn`t work out for them.
League will no doubt let them go up to state champ but there is now way they should.
Happy to be proven wrong aren't most of those clubd stepped in history? Hawthorn and Casey are about the newest club on the block that I can see. Casey changed a lot of things in the past 3-4yrs and you can see it's on the up not spiraling down. Better to build gradually than with a boom so any speed humps can be fixed along the way; perhaps that's just my business and long term visions see and it may be irrelevant to basketball.
Again I stipulate 25+ years ago there was no Casey or Hawthorn, I'm pretty sure the others existed. Let us judge Casey in 2-3yrs time, let them get settled into their change of direction before we try and throw them to the wolves like judgmental people we are
25 years ago the growth corridor wasn`t down that way. Casey will rise in numbers as the area around it does. It is now up to them to make sure that the quality rise with the numbers. Weight of numbers sure helps but it doesn`t gauretee sucess, if it did they would have had to go out and buy a D1 preliminary finals exit.
Gte coaches in who have a long term vision and build from the large pool of players they have, if you really commit to it you will see good things.
Mornington Peninsula
Years ago
#3053 Well said, have a vision and follow it. 100% correct that quantity doesn't equal success but it can help you move in the right direction. Getting senior teams right and playing high does help attract better juniors; if your building and hope that your juniors will help the seniors your kidding yourself as they will look towards the Frankstons and Dandys as their seniors play higher, that is the better players who obviously will do this. So your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, give the kids something to aim for, get the seniors playing Champ and it is a calculated risk that quality juniors will want to come and play there for this reason. Everything you do is a risk, you will never appease everyone but so long as you have a vision to take everyone along for the ride and not take them for a ride people will want to be apart of it.
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