Anonymous
Years ago
U17 Men playing now
http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/151/16/17/69/25dak04pkcey/
Anonymous
Years ago
http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/151/16/17/69/25dak04pkcey/
its a qualifying round game, so as long as we win the other two games its ok we will be in the final. The only game that matters is to win the final.
if we lose that then we are out and the guys at BA with there great planning should be out as well.
BA you need to lift your game, better & earlier talent identification more opportunity to develop via exposure to higher levels of competition.
well its official the australian u16 (for the U17 world cup) just copped a 19 smack down by NZ.
This Aussie team has only 1 guy at the CoE. They have had only 2,3 short training camps (one of which was funded by a community group?) with no games played competitively prior to the qualification tournament.
What has happen to our development process this is crazy and it truly lacks the planning & development that was once our strong point. The U17 world cup has been around long enough now for us to get it right?
Think back to how close it was for us with the last U19 qualification. Basketball Australia is asleep at the wheel.
Then there is the fact that NZ is actually closing the gap on us too!
Anon
Years ago
without seeing the game its difficult to analyse but frohling went on too late despite an early rebounding issue. free throws were low yet FG's were up at very low % vs NZ count so was there enough driving. assists were 0 7 minutes in then player went in and in just over a minute posted an assist, the first for the game and then taken off after 2 minutes. i can go on but stat line was difficult to analyse but showed some immediate concern and need to see footage to make any further comment but to me it looks like the game plan may have been an issue. if anyone knows of any footage posted by third party please post link.
MACDUB
Years ago
NZ is starting to see the benefits of the Breakers success in the early decade/more attention to Basketball.
Think this will be a sign of things to come.
A 19 point win is huge.
NZ teams in the past used to lose by 20 +.
A 40 pt turnaround isn't bad.
I was not there, so I can only look at the livestats also. It is obvious that NZ controlled the boards and probably this allowed them to control the game.
We seemed to have shot poorly, so maybe we took bad shots or maybe NZ just pressured us well and we couldn't get good open looks, or maybe we didn't pass it well and were too selfish?
I don't know as I said, I wasn't there, anyone there care to share their thoughts?
Hilarious people having opinions without seeing the game
Why can't someone wake an opinion based on livestats anon^? You have made an opinion that you feel people are hilarious because they have an opinion, yet you also have one, based on nothing!
Olgun Uluc is my go-to-guy for reporting on games based on box scores.
Fakira only played 4mins?
Starr hasn't performed aswell as expected?
Griffiths over dalton?
Some odd choices.
Currently the starting lineup is..
Dent
Elkaz
Fullarton
Johns
Colina
Definitely unexpected.
Yep Olgun will make something up based on the stats and a photo borrow from someone.
Then you guys can add your own interpretation of that. Won't have any connection to the actual event.
It's not easy to work out exactly what went wrong just looking at the stats were New Zealand bigger ? Or are there players chosen in the Australian team who have under performed ? Will they be able to come back in the GF
The girls look like they're on the right track and has less preparation time then the boys so what's going on
Watkins and Schueller, that's what's going on :(
BA have invested in coaches that no longer actually coach and are trying to implement a system that takes a long time to perfect.
Watkins..nsw
Dent
Zunic
Elkaz
Fakira
Schueller..vic
Bines
Johns
Griffiths
Colina(Coe)
Others
Mudronja-sa
Starr-usa
Fullarton-qld(Coe)
Froling-qld(future Coe?)
794, they just won a silver at their last campaign. They are missing Jamie from Country Victoria though and I'm not sure on the guy they replaced him with????
Interesting comment, about BA implementing a system that takes a lot of time to perfect, especially at this age group. They have been implementing a system for a while now, at NITP, NPP and CoE camps so one would hope these players have been paying attention.
There is of course a theory about system, does the system need to fit the playing group or have we scouted players that can adapt to the system.
Our system at junior level has got us some good results, or has it? I beg to differ and say it has been some incredible players and lucky shots that may have had as much to do with our junior international success as the system.
Another thing, who actually knows what this 'system' is? Is the system a phylisophy of play or is it some set plays and rotations, because the system seems to be short of the NZ system at the moment?
I tend to agree with the need to coach these kids on how to play basketball, before we turn them into system based robots, but then I guess the coaches know better at BA than I do.
Well I am staying positive until tomorrow, lets hope the boys and the coaches learn from this. Although I would look at starting 5 as I learn towards Bines.
anonymous
Years ago
New Caledonia game on now with different 5. Frohling on, now thats a plan
http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/151/16/18/18/75jJsx5hqqpk/
Girls up by 3 points with 1 qtr left...
Hope we can hold on...
Girls are through to the big show!
Magbegor with 23 points, 16 rebounds and 5 blocks.
I reckon will see a few changes happening to the squad over the next 10 months.
Goodchild in for one.
Best 5 throughout tournament was imo:
Shelley
Simmons
McLean
Pizzey
Magbegor
with a grand total of 4 assists for the whole game, that would be a good area to start looking at for the changes needed.
The first thing to do is stop the brendan joyce plan of having mature age CoE members and get back to a full group of the best talented juniors getting the best development, its has been to the detriment of the development of future opals...
Completely agree...
More about talent.
Locks.. 2016?
Shelley, Simmons, simons, McLean, pizzey, magbegor
Fighting for positions:
Point guards
Cubillo, George, Abel, McDowell white, heal
Guards
Goodchild, lehmann, dangelo, Satie, Schweizer
Small forwards
Rowe, mole, c.bourne, McKay, fisher
Power forwards
Cochrane, mcspadden, batish, motuga, I.bourne
Center
Rees, Burke
Amongst others...
Should they look at taking some of the squad through to the AIS is it lack of time together or lack of talent
Coaches fell in love with small ball playing Tahiti, thought it may work in the final too - massive malfunction. Teams with strong guards will trouble this team as guards are vulnerable defensively.
here's a great photo of the boys team pre match
https://instagram.com/p/6ZeANjRylBmIAZxTuZ4FZcXyZgPcjuQrUuZPc0/
Its shows Bines and Elkaz have both grown taller guessing 196 & 197cms
still wondering why dalton wasn't picked (crazy)
If they manage to get through ?? Will there be changes made in the team for next year
Is there a big size difference between New Zealand and Australia
Dalton, runnalls, garang, ocarroll, Matthews-Hampton, lutula to get look ins for next year possibly..
Just a guess..
Dent/zunic
Fullarton/bines/Elkaz
Garang/johns
Froling/dalton/runnalls
Fakira/Colina
which would mean mudronja, Starr, Griffiths out of the current squad.
^"Should they look at taking some of the squad through to the AIS is it lack of time together or lack of talent"
Yes they should have a few more there now, its a matter of development. the talent continually comes through in Australia but it must be developed and the CoE has been the place (in this country, others are now going direct to the US).
The boys have a big opportunity with a good number of talls that need development
^"Is there a big size difference between New Zealand and Australia".
The rebounding wasn't in our favour but we are reasonably matched in the bigs it may have been more about physicality (hard to say without vision).
I would tell everyone to have a look at the following link to the just finished boys U16 European Championship and check out the rosters
http://u16men.fibaeurope.com/en/default.asp
Bosnia and Herzegovina beat Lithuania with a very big team
turkey beat Spain for bronze with a big team.
we need to get over playing small ball
The next year we will probably see..
Bines and Elkaz 6'5-6'6
Fullarton and garang 6'6-6'7
Johns and Griffiths 6'7-6'8
Froling, dalton, runnalls and fakira 6'9-6'10
Colina 6'10-6'11
So if Star is out why all the big write ups of how good he is
MACDUB
Years ago
With the rise in basketball in NZ dare I say it the sport is now attracting the best athletes (who would historically chose Rugby).
As a Kiwi I'm not reading too much into the result.
I think NZ U17 would develop athletically and physically a lot quicker than Aus.
The big one is u19. If and when NZers start winning those Oceania age group games it will be mammoth for us.
But the skill level between Aus and NZ at U19 level is still evident and its the skill development factor which NZ needs to keep developing from that 16+ age group.
Garang what's the go with his paper work will it be
Resolved
Starr an American comes to play for Australia? = different = storyline?
Watch his YouTube clips... His ok. Doesn't stand out amongst the crowd though..
Sorry, I started the small ball theme and that was about the coaching malfunction in the girls game tonight.
Nz junior programs are based on fundamental skills like dribbling the ball, defence and shooting.
Aus style is flooding young brains with strategy and plays drawn out on whiteboards.
We only win because we have a larger talent pool and usually it's only two or three players that get us over the line.
I was surprised when our u17 girls got their medals.
It looked like mcpadden and cochrane were the same size or even taller than magbegor.. Am I wrong?
And Shelley was almost as tall as McLean which would make her 5'10-5'11?
A lot of girls where bigger than I expected.
Both Samuel and fotu are far more physical than our bigs.
Colina and froling may be taller but they are sticks in comparison.
Fakira looks to be the better rebounder atm.
We could be in trouble because there starting 5 is better than ours for sure.
MACDUB
Years ago
I disagree.
Having played/developed my game in both countries (Aus 6-11 years of age and NZ 11+) i can safely say the fundamental coaching in Aus is superior.
NZ don't develop those skills from fundamental training - they probably get a lot of that from playing on the local street court.
I live in a reasonably sized town/city and its impossible to get a court to a gym (local pro team had to train at a gym 30mins away), there's no formal coaching and no coaches coming through. When we do play we just have high intensity scrimmages.
MACDUB
Years ago
Converesly when i was playing in the VJBL Under 11 Championship in Vic we had three coaches, trained numerous times a week, had formal instructiom and were disciplined if we didn't do the basics right. And we were 10!
Macdub... That's not the case anymore.
They have changed a whole bunch in the last 2 years.
Cochrane easily the tallest, followed by McSpadden. Cochrane must be 6'5" if you accept Magbegor is 6'3".
One tall 14yo.
Few changes I would make to u17 girls.. But hey just an opinion...
Quite a few from 2000 born I know...
Pg/sg Shelley 2000
Pg white 2000
Pg/sg 1 of Abel(99), heal(01), Cubillo(99), lehmann(99), George(99)
Sg/pg Goodchild 2000
Sg/sf Simmons 1999
Sg/sf simons 2000
Sf/sg McLean 1999
Sf/sg 1 of Rowe(99), bourne(99), mole(99), dangelo(00), Schweizer(00)
Pf/c pizzey 1999
Pf/c cochrane 2000
C/pf mcspadden 1999
C/pf Magbegor 1999
Magbegor has been measured.
She is 6'4 193cm.
4 players 6'5 by mid next year?
Strength is the problem though.. Not length...
I guess that's why Seebohm wanted batish even though she's only 6'2.
A few players from the u16 vic teams were touted as ones to watch..
Gould, Leydin, Frawley if memory serves...
Couple of sa girls and qld girls from the final also.
I watched krisome for qld...
Thought she was underrated because of the other talent they had in that squad.
White, heal, Goodchild, motuga etc
It looks like all the teams from Europe are of similar size to us except Greece has a 7fter.
Nah in the boys u16 euro champs.
The tallest guy is 213cm from Greece...
Most euro teams seem to have bigger guards but I think we have slightly bigger bigs.
The average euro big is 204cm or 6'8.5
Average guard seems to be 197cm 6'5'5
Its a new age...
The u16 girls euro champs is about to start.
I looked at the rosters. Most teams front courts consist of players between 6'0-6'4.
Similar to ours...
But 2 of the teams...
Turkey
6'9 (2001) inci Guclu and 3 other players around 6'3-6'4
Serbia
6'9 (2001) Helena mitrovic and 3 other players 6'4-6'6
These 6'9 players are also very large (talking 220lbs plus easily)
Brittany griner size with another 30-40lbs at age 14... Crazy!
Doubt their very mobile but huge presence down low for sure.
Russia and Germany are also very big. Multiple 6'4 players.
Guclu is 99 born. Not that it makes a difference...
Serbia is out and Turkey are on their way out...
Doesn't look like they will make the world's.
Russia on the women's side are looking very strong much like the u19 side.
Good program working over there in Moscow.
fstos
Years ago
Is this game steamed on the fiba youtube channel?
I cant find it anywhere.
fstos
Years ago
Are you watching this or just checking live stats?
Links?
anonymous
Years ago
17 boys playing now but can't find any streaming. Anyone help ???
we seem to be playing better,starting 5 no problem, coaches have done their homework, give them credit!!
I love knockers when we go down, just make sure you are about when we WIN.
anonymous
Years ago
My only concern is the 4/16 points in the paint. Is that because of height or unable to penetrate but they are so worried about our defence. Might be nothing without seeing the game.
anonymous
Years ago
My only concern is the 4/16 points in the paint. Is that because of height or unable to penetrate but they are so worried about our defence. Might be nothing without seeing the game.
Still here.
You don't think froling should start?
Instead of going big with froling at pf they use johns who is a tweener 3/4.
looks like they switch johns for Griffiths and Colina for froling.
Basically the whole team is straight swaps...?
anonymous
Years ago
I would have started frohling. need to win by 20 so have to go hard and penetrate, get our second chance and stop 2nd chance for nz to make those points. Need to see the game but surprised they went with same lineup as the 19 point loss. We'll see won't we.
anonymous
Years ago
play by play available today so better to see who is assisting who and active at least to fill in some gaps from the stats.
Clearly Watkins doesn't think much of starr or mudronja. Unless their injured?
Dalton, garang and another guard to come in potentially next year?
anonymous
Years ago
1/6 3's for NZ vs 5/12 for Aus is the difference. Hope they can keep popping them and find a way in to the paint to put some foul pressure on them. Neds that 20point buffer
Bear
Years ago
A 10 point lead going into the second half is nice, we seem to be doing a good job on the rebounds matching them, but our 3 pointers are what is keeping our noses in front by the look of the stats, they can't buy one and seem to be relying on free throws and hard work in the paint. Maybe?
What has is this 20 point buffer.
I thought this is a gold medal game
It is. Someone thinks it's best of 2? It's not...
Hat other pg's do we have beside dent and zunic?
Could potentially slide bines over to pg and have
Bines
Elkaz
Fullarton
Froling or dalton
Colina or fakira
Cheers. If we can hold Fotu & Samuel this half we should win.
I think NZ coach has rolled the dice by sitting them with 2 fouls each. We will see!!!
Can any one put up the score & let us know who's playing well ?
How does the team compare to last year?
2014 u17 boys team vs 2015 u17 boys team.
6'0 Owies vs 6'1 dent
6'2 Hodgson vs 6'2 zunic
6'2 vasljevic vs 6'5 bines
6'2 Mcmullan vs 6'5 elkaz
6'3 Wilson vs 6'5 Mudronja
6'4 White vs 6'5 Starr
6'6 Clark vs 6'6 Fullarton
6'6 Noi vs 6'7 johns
6'7 Akintola vs 6'7 Griffiths
6'9 froling vs 6'8 fakira
6'9 Gak vs 6'9 froling
6'11 Humphries vs 6'10 Colina
anonymous
Years ago
20 to save face !!! always win by more than you lose
anonymous
Years ago
http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/151/16/18/83/60Mo4JEn256I/
Wouldn't count out benches. Mudronja put up 11 attempts with low result but penetrated to put it up and posted steals and assists and Starr had some good stuff going on in some games. THey have not had much court time to settle in and without seeing the games we can't see their contribution or if they mirror other players so used lightly. Leave it to go back and work on it and see what happens. Even some of the starters have had some poor stats even in the weaker games. Glad they are sticking with a core group and obviously the best for this game looking at the numbers.
anonymous
Years ago
Free throws are double for NZ and attempts down for Aussies as well. Why no penetration..
Elkaz, Johns and Dent for Aussie are doing well, for Kiwi Clinton, McDonald and McRae leading the way.
Kiwi made up 2 points, so Aussie go into last quarter with an 8 point lead. Goannas!
Less than 3 minutes to go and a 5 point game. Goannas missing some 3 pointers!
Pressure................... 1.30 minutes to go and a 3 point game!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the best rebounder at u16 state champs was who?
High scoring game 80+ points per team going to the wire!
Patty Bines hits a 3 pointer, nice assist Fullarton!
anonymous
Years ago
2nd chance, no of 3's, points in the paint and 3 throws point to relying on the outside shots and thats a risky plan if they don't fall. Small ball can sometimes fix that in intermittent bursts and 2 dribble drivers are on the bench. Having said that the win is a win and they can go back and work on the rest
Sam Froling clutch with two free throws to give Aussie an eight point lead with 24 seconds to go, a win is a win, is a win!
Starting 5 all played well, other than Colina who has struggled, for Aus that is. Bines and Froling off the bench have done well, also Dent, Fullarton, Johns and Elkaz were solid.
Will there be changes made in the squad for next year
Wait............ NZ hit a 3 and it's a 4 point game with 13 seconds to go, oh my goodness!
Now we play, foul the ball, Froling one out of two, only 6 seconds to go Aussie 89 - 86 Kiwi.
Great win, 91-86, well done to the Aussie boys and a great effort by NZ too, bad luck again to the Kiwis.
If nzs starting 5 shot better we would have lost by 20.
We were out rebounded by a much smaller team.
Clearly we have to solve that problem!
dent/zunic
Elkaz/bines
Fullarton/garang/johns
Froling/dalton/runnalls
Fakira/Colina
Mudronja, Starr and Griffiths out?
Maybe Colina out, runnalls to centre and add another guard.
Well done the young Aussie men you've done your Country proud and it sounds like a lot of work to build up to the Worlds next year
It was live on Sky in NZ why no TV in AUS basketball TV coverage is such a fail in AU haha
anonymous
Years ago
don't knock the players yet, there still may be a coaching issue !!! need to see if someone posts the game later before making comments on players. Now for the boomers.
LC
Years ago
Wow - big win by the Aussies over NZ!
Australian U17 Men's squad defeat New Zealand to qualify for 2016 FIBA U17 World Championship
Reversed the result from their earlier encounter. Tough to beat NZ on their home soil.
What does the CoE have to do with being able to cope with the standard of playing at worlds? Blow all the wind you want about the CoE, he has just arrived and obviously had trouble in this game, so unless they change him completely in a short time they will look elsewhere. BA cuts them like crazy as soon as they see any small weakness is exposed and bring in the next big thing. Hope he can come good with lots of hard work, but don't rely on CoE alone, that's just nuts. He apparently loves his footy anyway!
Olgun Uluc obviously has never watched Johns play if he thinks hitting a 3 pointer is uncharacteristic for him. Another uneducated guess in his game report unfortunately.
The good thing about Fullarton and garang is that they can both play the guard and forward position. Johns is better suited to sf but can play pf small ball which leaves some room for a couple of bigger guys in the post. Dalton and froling should be locks and The others (Colina, fakira, runnalls, Griffiths) will continue to practice their skills and fight it out for a couple/few spots.
Who will stay in for the Worlds and who will likely miss out based on this weeks performance seems like a lot of talk up about Star who didn't even look like he got on at all in the last game how can an Australian team be chosen and players aren't good enough to even get in the court ? What does that say about the selection process
HO
Years ago
"Tough to beat NZ on their home soil."
Really LC? When is the last time (other than this week) that we didn't beat NZ on their turf?
Doesn't Garang have to prove his identity and age before he gets his paper work in order is this correct and not the only one in the squad with the same issue
fstos
Years ago
"Who will stay in for the Worlds and who will likely miss out based on this weeks performance seems like a lot of talk up about Star who didn't even look like he got on at all in the last game how can an Australian team be chosen and players aren't good enough to even get in the court ? What does that say about the selection process"
Hopefully it says that they learn from their mistakes. The reversal of the earlier result also lend one to think that they are willing to adjust their thinking/stategy.
anonymous
Years ago
Every team including the boomers will have players on the bench so should they be cut. move on . thats basketball. different players for different games and injuries. will not mean automatic cut. so much more to the game and training time than 1 game where every team would have sat 1 -4 people out. Look at the NBA. And who's to say they would not have performed if given the opportunity anyway.
Would starr even be there if garang was available?
The biggest wtf was dalton not making the team.
A 6'9 pf/c That averaged 20 points, 12 rebounds and 4.5 blocks at u16 and was beat out by Griffiths, Colina and fakira? 2 of which didn't even play at nationals.
Surely he was injured or something?
Anyone know anything about that 15 yo 6'10 kid Nic Tata from channel 10s 'the project'...
What's the story with that guy?
I think it's perfectly fine to think there will be changes made it's not a given for these players to make a team that could change in ten months time. Wasn't there five players from the last men's team who played qualifying round but didn't play worlds. Like any team it's finding the right combination. I would be interested if any of these kids will be offered a spot at the AIS
I haven't seen Dolton play but it does seem like a lot of question to why he missed out ??
Great work Aussie boys and coaches! You have done Australia proud!
Bear
Years ago
Congratulations to the team and everyone helping along the way, great result. I have not seen the game, not sure if it is online yet, looking forward to though...
Best of luck to the team in the future, go Aus.
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