Anonymous
Years ago

Watching Zone Defense

Saw the Geelong Supercats beat Mildura on Sat night with a 2-3 zone. Turned out to be pretty boring as the play became one dimensional.

I know that it was poor zone offence by mildura but...

Are people happy to watch zone D??

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what the  
Years ago

nothing really to do with your above comment - but good under this title.
With junior finals just around teh corner , remember - the "no zone" rule can only be properly enforced by a junior committee member, who introduces themselves to the head ref before the game.

coaches can grizzle to refs / head refs - and the refs can ask - but the bottom line is the above.

Reply #44553 | Report this post


junior  
Years ago

To the u/14 div 3 sturt coach who's team ran a 2-3 zone last saturday , tell ur boys that when the opposition coach calls his team behind the red line and your team stays planted in the key with the zone set up , it kind of looks obvious doesnt it ?

When it comes to finals and you have to play away from pasedena, other UIC's won't let it happen like the UIC at pasedena did.

Thanks for the heads up 'what the'
i was unaware that that was the rule. From now on we're going to have atleast 1 committee member at every venue across adelaide for all junior games .....dont think so

Reply #44570 | Report this post


RJ  
Years ago

What the you're actually wrong there. That is just one option.

If as a coach you believe the opposition team is playing a zone then it is your duty (as a coach) to bring it to the attention of the referees on the game. They should then speak to the offending coach asking them to stop playing a zone (if in fact they are). The referees/coach should also make the UIC aware that a zone query has been brought up and then the UIC will observe and decide if a zone is in fact bveing played. If the UIC deems a zone is being played and the offending coach has had an opportunity to change it since being spoken to by the referee then the UIC will instruct the referee to Tech Foul the offending coach. If the team continues to play a zone the UIC can instruct the referee to call the game a forfeit by the offending team.

Once again a Junior Committee rep is ONE way not the ONLY way an illegal zone defence can be picked up and penalised.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I would expect there to be some zone played this saturday night in the Woodville v Sturt preliminary final.

Woodville have played a lot of zone all year. Sometimes showing zone and then matching up after one pass.

Also, after tuesday nights reserve elimination final between these two teams, i would expect Sturt to play some zone too...a 1-3-1 perhaps?

I think zone, when used in games for different spurts is fine to watch, but it is when it is played all game that it can certainly get a bit boring to watch. But there arn't too many teams you can do that to at ABL level cos there are too many good shooters in the league and sooner or later they will start hitting. A team that plays zone all game will in most cases lose the game, that is if the opposition are smart and patient enough.

Reply #44594 | Report this post


40th Street Black  
Years ago

North Melbourne Giants beat the Sixers in a GF playing a 2-3 zone.

Tonya Harding had some thugs crack Nancy Kerrigan knees with a baseball bat to win.

Maybe that was a bit too far but hey, whatever it takes.

Go get em' son.

Reply #44599 | Report this post


Scott Butler  
Years ago

junior,

Having "zone busted" at a few Under 14 State and Nationals over the year, I can say that it is not as simple as you make out. Just cos one or more players are in the key doesn't mean a team is zoning. The best way of testing this out (as detailed in the Basketball Australia guidelines) is to run a cutter and see how the defense reacts. If the cutter is not followed, bumped, switched etc as normal man-to-man defensive rules dictate then the defensive team is zoning.

I saw all 3 Sturt Div 3 teams on Saturday and they all looked like they were in man-to-man to me. Considering they haven't got any zone in their practice plans, I find it hard to believe that they actually were in zone. Kids may have been "lost" on defense but it is Div 3, this happens even in higher Divs.

Keep in mind that when your player is on the help side (the other side of the court to the ball), normal man to man defensive principles are that you should be in the keyway on the backboard line or split line.

I myself had an UIC tell me we were zoning the other week. Obviously we weren't. I took it as a compliment as it showed that the players were in fact getting to the backboard line and split line when their player was on the help side.

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40th Street Black  
Years ago

come on Scott live dangerously, send some of those split-liners over to double team the ball and make the little fella's rotate.

Reply #44606 | Report this post


Scott Butler  
Years ago

They do if the on-ball defender gets beaten! I don't think that's what you meant though!

Reply #44610 | Report this post


40th Street Black  
Years ago

Darn tootin', kid playing super D on the 45, offensive player is struggling, Split-liner is four quick steps away

BAM Double team

rotate

turnover

Sixers win the title

Iverson says "couldn't do it with out Scotty Butlers agressive defense"

Scott to Stern "have to thank 40th Street Black for showing me the light" then raises NBA trophy

Reply #44620 | Report this post


chicken schnitzel  
Years ago

several head refs for juniors Dome way - neil bridgeman, colin riddle have always told me that any enforcement (ie disqualification after 2 warnings and a bench tech) must come from a junior committee member present at the stadium and introduced to the head ref.

As head refs they will listen and ask - but they can not enforce to the above.

Rod ridley also told me that as a far as he was concerned - zone defence was a static zoned defence around the key way - but inside the arc as well. With no effort to cover the cutters.

court traps etc were ok

I feel junior committe memebers should have polo shirts or windcheaters - like a head ref

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Anonymous  
Years ago

zone defence is so boring 2 watch!

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Coach5  
Years ago

Zone defence can be boring to watch, depends how the offence try to play against it. Man can be boring, depending how the offence attack it. Sounds repititious??? If teams knew how to work against a zone then very few teams would play zones now would they.
My fav is the 3-2 Zone when you got a couple of useless bigs and lots of guards who love to cover the floor, gives you great opportunities to run the floor with steals. Gotta be careful on the helpline sometimes though.

Reply #44765 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If you want clarification of the no-zone rule it is in the by-laws on the BASA website. Referee's are just no enforcing them because they are lazy.

Reply #44798 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Referee's on the game can't be expected to watch for zones as well as everything else.

Referee's in juniors aren't always going to be able to determine if a team is playing zone d.

Don't just say that they're lazy.

Reply #44803 | Report this post


RJ  
Years ago

Anonymous post (#44798)
Read it again. And as a UIC I can tell you we've been instructed in the past that it is ONLY us or a Junior Committee rep who can make the final call on if a team is playing a zone or not. If you wanna ref bash at least try and find some facts to back it up with.


A4

Zone Defence

"Zone defence" is not permitted in Under 10, 12 and 14 Age Grades. The following sequence of events will occur where "zone defence" is detected:

" the coach who believes that their opponents are playing "zone defence" may draw this to the attention of the referee at an appropriate break in play
" the referee will indicate to the "offending" team's coach that "zone defence" is not permitted
" the referee should ask the UIC or any Junior Committee Official who may be present to observe the game
" if it is confirmed that "zone defence" continues to be played, the referee will call a Technical Foul on the bench of the offending team
" if the offending team continues to play "zone defence", the referee shall call a halt to the game and declare a forfeit.

For the purposes of simple identification of a "zone defence", once the defence has moved into position in the opposition's front court, it must be obvious that each player is defending an opponent, e.g., if a cutter moves through the keyway in offence, a defensive player must move with that player

Reply #44812 | Report this post


Misty  
Years ago

Junior, you might want to be more specific as there are three sturt div 3 teams and two of them were playing at pasadena last saturday. Either way i'm sure the UIC didn't just allow it to pass, i'm sure he had a look and probably decided that it wasn't a zone. Maybe you should look more into the rule before you start to ref bash... or maybe you're just another ignorant parent...
To the clubs, if you decide to send a committee member out to a game, please make sure that they are well educated in the rule. You could even print out RJ's version if your club does not have access to the current by-laws.
The way I understand it, a zone is when all defenders are in the key and an offensive player cuts and is not followed or bumped. Zones are only in the front half of the court, mainly in the key area. Does this mean that in under 10's, 12's and 14's if your kids are smart enough, you can teach them a full court press? Is this a loop hole or is it for real?
Even by the explanation of RJ there is nothing about running a full court press. I would be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this.

Reply #44814 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

On a full court press, players still have to move to the ball and get into split line or some sort of denial help, so I personally wouldnt class it as a zone. It still teaches kids to move in appropriate spots in order to rotate and help out.

Reply #44817 | Report this post


just a question  
Years ago

RJ,

Those rules state "if it is confirmed...." - it doesn't say who has to confirm it does it? Or have you edited these rules to fit into a post? If not, can the referee's confirm it?

And based upon info further up the page (whether it's true or rubbish I don't know) would you say that the head refs at the Dome don't know the rule, or just won't enforce it?

Reply #44819 | Report this post


Scott Butler  
Years ago

You can do anything you like in the full court. It's what each of the players do in the quarter court that counts.

Examples

A full or 3/4 court press back to man to man in the quarter court is allowed.

A 1-2-2 half court press is allowed provided that when the offense beats the trap and gets into the quarter court that everybody matches up.

Trapping in quarter court is allowed provided its out of man to man not zone (eg a 1-3-1 trapping zone is not allowed).

At Nationals there are rostered zone busters.

Reply #44821 | Report this post


RJ  
Years ago

Without speaking to either UIC I don't think its fair of me to say what they think or know. I will say that they wouldn't be alone in thinking only a Junior Committee rep can enforce the rule. Whether it be lack of information or them not wanting to take responsibility I know UIC's have been unwilling to enforce the zone rule in the past.

What I posted is directly out of the by-laws on the BASA website. As I said as UIC I was given further information regarding the zone rule by the then Director of Referees. As with all by-laws and rules they are unfortunately always up for differing interpretations. I'll try and get some more info so as to pass it on to you all.

Also it only covers the stand still or 1/4 court zones not half or full court traps. Again thats in the spirit of the rule even if not actually worded as such.

Reply #44831 | Report this post


junior  
Years ago

Misty

the term ref bashing gets quite a hammering on this site and i never have or never will single out a ref for ' bashing' as u put it.

what i stated was that the team i saw play on saturday morning played, in my opinion , a 3-2 zonal defence, not once but 4 or 5 times and on each occasion the defence stayed planted in the key when we pulled the offence out behind the red line

the umpire in charge may have spoken to the umpires, but it continued on.please show me where in my post i had a go at either the UIC or the two umpires concerned.

perhaps you should read a little closer or not take slight critisms too personally.

as for being an ignorant parent dont degrade yourself by slanging me on a personal level.....i'm hurt and my lawyers will be in touch with yours.

Reply #44832 | Report this post


Misty  
Years ago

It wasn't personal junior, maybe you should try umpiring, it'll apparently give you a thicker skin.

Your comment was:
"When it comes to finals and you have to play away from pasedena, other UIC's won't let it happen like the UIC at pasedena did."
That last little comment is what I call ref bashing and you did name someone, the UIC from Pasadena.

"To the u/14 div 3 sturt coach who's team ran a 2-3 zone last saturday , tell ur boys that when the opposition coach calls his team behind the red line and your team stays planted in the key with the zone set up , it kind of looks obvious doesnt it ?"
Usually when an offensive team is behind the red line, the defending team is in the key, funnily enough, defending the basket. It is only when your team entered into the key could the UIC decide whether a zone was being played, he can't tell anything if your kids weren't attacking the basket.

However do tell your lawyers that it's Misty with Y and no surname, like Cher and Madonna.
You still haven't stated which team you were either.

Reply #45752 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

2-3 be a tree

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shane  
Years ago

how do u beat a zone defence.?
what r the options of getting close
or getting a a possible gap?

Reply #53303 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

odd guard front, high low post.

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