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Blowout Troll
Two years ago

#38336

Slow motion replay on the last play

What I found on Yourtube

You decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQEjbiJw69I

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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:46 29 Oct 15

Reply #559634

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Massive foul. No question. I was at the game. Don't go for either team


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Sirjump
Two years ago
21:50 29 Oct 15

Reply #559637

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Beal releases it;
Majok gets a finger to it;
as Majok's arm comes down, his arm hits Beal's arm.
Correct no call.


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koberulz
Two years ago
21:52 29 Oct 15

Reply #559638

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

I'm with Sirjump. Minor contact on the follow through. Play on.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:53 29 Oct 15

Reply #559639

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

So it's not a foul if you hit a shooters arm after he has released the ball???


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Blowout Troll
Two years ago
21:54 29 Oct 15

Reply #559640

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

LOL, so after you release it and in the motion after you release it and get hacked on the arm its no foul?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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RMQ
Two years ago
22:02 29 Oct 15

Reply #559644

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Thanks for uploading!


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LV
Two years ago
22:03 29 Oct 15

Reply #559645

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Yeah Majok made contact with the arm.

Exactly how much contact on the arm is up for debate, but there's no doubt that by the standards of this season's NBL, it should've been called a foul.

But while we're on this topic, let's take a look at Majok's first 3 fouls, Goulding's first 2, Blanchfield's second, Holt's first.....

Or if you want to go on with the "Cheer leading refs" narrative then look at Redhage's first two fouls.


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RMQ
Two years ago
22:03 29 Oct 15

Reply #559646

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

No foul on follow through? tell that to Kobe.


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snooch
Two years ago
22:03 29 Oct 15

Reply #559647

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

It's not the worst no-call I've seen. Certainly not worthy of all the crying going on.
Bad calls happen all the time in every league in the world. The carry-on is over the top.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
22:08 29 Oct 15

Reply #559651

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

The issue I have is that if its Goulding doing it, he would get the call after he threw himself to the floor as if he got Ervined again.


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Touch the rim
Two years ago
22:13 29 Oct 15

Reply #559652

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

I don't think it was a foul. Yeah he got hand but he got ball first. Good block, play on. And with Holt putting both of his hands on Beal as he began the drive... I've seen plenty of those not called. Yeah call it a double hand check or whatever, but I'm okay with that not being called a foul either.

Re: Majok's block
1) It was crunch time and refs will only ever blow the whistle if it is blatant. It's just the nature of the sport

2) Let's not be hypocritical as fans. We've been campaigning for more excitement around the rim and a relaxing of calls like this. Lost count of the number of times a ref has killed an amazing defensive play by calling the shot blocker for a foul


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
22:15 29 Oct 15

Reply #559654

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

I can see why it wasn't a foul but since when has getting arm as well, or after, getting the ball been a no call?


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Sirjump
Two years ago
22:15 29 Oct 15

Reply #559655

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

I'm prepared to proven wrong regarding "foul on the follow through", but let's not forget that Majok blocked the shot and *then* hits Beal on the arm.

This isn't a case of Beal being denied the opportunity to hit the game winner because he was fouled in the act of shooting.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
22:17 29 Oct 15

Reply #559656

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Same thing happend to harden last season duncan blocked the shot hit him on the follow through. No call, there too.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:18 29 Oct 15

Reply #559658

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

If he has already blocked the shot and the contact occurs it's a correct no call as it's incidental contact in a loose ball situation.


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Blowout Troll
Two years ago
22:19 29 Oct 15

Reply #559659

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

LOL, FOUL EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK...


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Kobe24
Two years ago
22:19 29 Oct 15

Reply #559660

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

And the case of Goulding wouldve got the call... welcome to reality Redhage been getting those calls for too long. This is a bit much, not the worst no call.


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LV
Two years ago
22:19 29 Oct 15

Reply #559661

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

After watching a few times, I can understand why they didn't call the foul on Majok. Not as much contact on the arm as I first thought.

After watching the replay I actually think it could've been a foul on Knight defending Holt too. If you look at say, one of Charles Jacksons early fouls last night defending Burston it was almost the same.

The players are trying to learn the reffing so I hope that the refs keep it fairly consistent game to game, play to play. That's all we can really ask.


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LV
Two years ago
22:20 29 Oct 15

Reply #559662

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Yeah good pick up- that Duncan/Harden incident was quite similar to this actually.

While we're on the refs, I'd like to see them penalising players more *after the fact* for flopping.


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AngusH
Two years ago
22:22 29 Oct 15

Reply #559663

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

boo hoo.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
22:24 29 Oct 15

Reply #559664

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

The only similarity between this and Duncan and Harden is there were two black players involved. Duncan got his hand right on top of the ball, and as it moved down from the ball, he eventually made contact with hardens arm. Majok just takes a massive swipes and hits arm and ball at roughly the same time. It's not a clean block at all.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
22:26 29 Oct 15

Reply #559665

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

This reaction is kinda sad. We all want our teams to win and get a fair go, but c'mon guys... be more concerned about the lack of consistent shooters perth have to go to. Its stuff like this that makes people love to hate the Cats so much haha


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
22:27 29 Oct 15

Reply #559667

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Stop being a dickhead Kobe. We're discussing a call, that's what the thread is for.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
22:28 29 Oct 15

Reply #559668

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Now now no need to name call. Its just a bit much is all im saying.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:28 29 Oct 15

Reply #559669

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Nice defensive play by Majok in crunch time.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:30 29 Oct 15

Reply #559671

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

When the Cats lose you cry harder then even a six year old at his very first live game. Grow up.


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koberulz
Two years ago
22:33 29 Oct 15

Reply #559673

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Majok just takes a massive swipes and hits arm and ball at roughly the same time.
He pretty clearly gets the ball cleanly initially, slightly brushing Beal's arm well after the fact.

Good no-call.


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Dazz
Two years ago
22:37 29 Oct 15

Reply #559675

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Yes, its clearly a foul. People disputing are doing so purely because they either hate Perth and/or don't want the result called into dispute.

But here's the thing. Incorrect calls happen. They happen all game in every game.
People are all focussed on this because they think Beal could have shot 2 and tied up the game, but in reality its no more or less important than any other call during the game.

When games go down to the wire like that, anything can happen. In a sense its always going to seem a little unfair when you have two great teams each plays a great game, but only one will ever get the points. But that's basketball.
Simple fact is that the Cats should never have allowed Majok to get that rebound. Cats get that board, MU have to foul them, and they probably stay in front and win. Didn't happen, MU win, end of story.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:38 29 Oct 15

Reply #559676

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Agreed Koberulz.


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Blowout Troll
Two years ago
22:43 29 Oct 15

Reply #559679

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Imagine is that Goulding instead of Beal LOL..

World War 3 would be happening here


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:49 29 Oct 15

Reply #559681

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Best team won although the best team needs to figure out how to run some sets in the clutch other than iso'ing Goulding every play.


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Wwizard
Two years ago
22:54 29 Oct 15

Reply #559683

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Thats a foul. Dont like Perth but in fairness of a game, they should have called it.
If the difference was 11 points, they would have.
Shonky reffing


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:55 29 Oct 15

Reply #559685

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Problem is the refs don't see it in slow motion but in real time.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:57 29 Oct 15

Reply #559686

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

No foul, clean block ended the shot and then contact occurred afterwards. Good reffing.


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Blowout Troll
Two years ago
23:07 29 Oct 15

Reply #559691

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"Thats a foul. Dont like Perth but in fairness of a game, they should have called it.
If the difference was 11 points, they would have.
Shonky reffing"

Agreed 100%


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:11 29 Oct 15

Reply #559692

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"No foul, clean block ended the shot and then contact occurred afterwards. Good reffing."

Agreed 200%


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Matt
Two years ago
23:12 29 Oct 15

Reply #559693

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"No foul, clean block ended the shot and then contact occurred afterwards". its still a foul even if contact happens after the release of the shot eg 3 point shooters


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:20 29 Oct 15

Reply #559696

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

If the shot is blocked the shot is over. If the defender has jumped forward and takes shooter's position it would still be a foul, but that's not what happened here.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:34 29 Oct 15

Reply #559698

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Great no call, pulling at straws on this one. Just not obvious enough at full speed to argue it. Great block by a guy who was meant to make up the numbers. United are deeeeeep.


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XY
Two years ago
23:43 29 Oct 15

Reply #559701

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Watched the game on tv, saw the full speed replay at the time, thought nothing of it until seeing this thread just now.

Maybe it's a foul, maybe it's not. But I wouldn't be taking the refs to task over that one ever. Maybe you get that call 1/4 times.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
00:47 30 Oct 15

Reply #559720

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Watching the game I actually assumed they had called it a foul until I saw everyone's reaction.

Usually that's a foul, although I wish it wasn't. If they consistently leave that as a no-call for the rest of the season it would be better for the game IMO.


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paul
Two years ago
01:04 30 Oct 15

Reply #559724

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Watch the game around the world, that's a no call pretty much everywhere. Really happy the refs didn't give a bail out against someone playing good D, same with Knight's D on Holt.

Frustration for players, coaches and fans is inconsistency. Knight was whistled for a foul on a very very similar play earlier in the game. The refs need to be on the same page because once the calls become consistent players will adapt.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
01:11 30 Oct 15

Reply #559725

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Actually, watching that in slo-mo, that's a lot of body contact for a guy with zero defensive position. Should have been a foul. Unlucky.
Them's the breaks.
Was a hell of a game.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
01:16 30 Oct 15

Reply #559727

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Elevated straight up.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
01:20 30 Oct 15

Reply #559729

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Haha, no, clearly moving laterally and quite a lot


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Anonymous
Two years ago
01:25 30 Oct 15

Reply #559731

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Haha, no, elevated straight up, took contact from Beal who closed the gap and blocked the shot. Call that a foul in Euroleague or the NBA and get laughed out of town!


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Luuuc
Two years ago
01:29 30 Oct 15

Reply #559732

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Foul or not, minor or obvious, the first 1 second of the video linked at the top of this thread makes it plain as day that he was anything but "straight up"


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Anonymous
Two years ago
01:30 30 Oct 15

Reply #559733

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

No, it shows he clearly didn't elevate towards Beal, which would constitute a foul.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
02:01 30 Oct 15

Reply #559739

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

So exactly what I said then. Moving laterally and quite a lot.


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Isaac
Two years ago
06:56 30 Oct 15

Reply #559747

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Looked like a no-call to me. Doesn't look like he hits Beal much on the follow through, or at all. Certainly didn't seem hacked.

OP also started the other thread complaining about this call, and the "blow-out" thread. Doubt that will surprise anyone. Apparently complains if the games aren't close or if they are close. And starts a lot of posts with "LOL" - always so cheerful! Home life must be great, anon.


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Wwizard
Two years ago
07:14 30 Oct 15

Reply #559749

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Watched the play via normal play mode.
Question is, if you were a fan of one or the other, what would have been your verdict.
Easy saying good no call etc, but if that was ur team, would u have felt cheated walking out the carpark.


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Bear
Two years ago
07:29 30 Oct 15

Reply #559751

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

I was watching it live too, with my son and we both thought it was a foul immediately, but so many fouls, no calls and flops in the game, so where do you draw that line?

Looks like a foul, feels like a foul, smells like a foul, probably is a foul!

#UNLESSITISAFLOP


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Wilson Sting
Two years ago
08:18 30 Oct 15

Reply #559757

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

If they were being consistent they would have called the foul on the body contact alone. Ok, they missed that. Then if they were being consistent they would have called the foul on the follow through arm contact. Ok, they missed that too.

I've no problem with the no call (or call if it were) but again it's the lack of consistency within games and across the season that is still the biggest concern with the reffing.


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Vic Wildcat
Two years ago
08:26 30 Oct 15

Reply #559762

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Don't care about the last call, Beal shouldn't have gone there, poor decision.

Get tired of people blaming refs for losses, players and coaches make just as many mistakes during a game, but all the fans want to do is focus on the refs. It's a cop out to deflect from your team.

3 offences in a row we chucked up under pressure 3 pointers in the last rather than getting to Knight or Jawai , who were killing it on the inside. And Beals D on Holt in the last play was ordinary, why was Martin not subbed in specifically for that play is beyond me


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Bear
Two years ago
08:28 30 Oct 15

Reply #559763

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

^Very true that, did you see how upset Jawai was at not getting the pill in the dying minutes, he was livid and understandably so...


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Kobe24
Two years ago
08:32 30 Oct 15

Reply #559765

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Isaac the Lol gives it away. So much sadness comes out in those Lol ironically. I think its a good no call too. Hell of a block by Majok.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
08:48 30 Oct 15

Reply #559771

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

If you compare it to Gasols game winning block against Lebron then it's a foul.

I guess you have to ask, if that was during normal play and not in the dying seconds and for the win would it have been called a foul? I think it would have been.

Having said that, I like that it was a no call as it gives defenders confidence to go for game winning saves like this in the future - making it a better spectacle.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:49 30 Oct 15

Reply #559792

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Quote: If he has already blocked the shot and the contact occurs it's a correct no call as it's incidental contact in a loose ball situation.

Quote: No foul, clean block ended the shot and then contact occurred afterwards. Good reffing.

Quote: If the shot is blocked the shot is over. If the defender has jumped forward and takes shooter's position it would still be a foul, but that's not what happened here.


yes, yes amd yes:

Almost the only three correct posts in the thread


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Kobe24
Two years ago
10:00 30 Oct 15

Reply #559797

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Again just like the explantation the NBA gave over Duncan's block on Harden.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:23 30 Oct 15

Reply #559803

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Anon^^ the incidental contact would be just that, incidental, but a swinging arm that chops the guy and makes contact even after the shot is a foul no matter where it is on the court or what time during the game.

Nothing incidental about it!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:24 30 Oct 15

Reply #559804

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Hands straight up by the defender, blocks the shot and makes incidental contact I can live with, but a swinging arm downwards chopping the shooter, well that's a foul.

Oh, and that is the only correct statement on this thread!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:49 30 Oct 15

Reply #559813

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Irrelevant of the arm hack after the block, the body contact alone should have been a foul. Majok came over from the weakside and hit him mid air, should have been a foul.


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paul
Two years ago
11:15 30 Oct 15

Reply #559821

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

It's a clear no call.

Majok plants his feet between Beal and the basket, elevates to maintain that defensive position between Beal and the basket, takes contact to the chest, gets ball on his blocked shot attempt. The minor contact on the arm has no bearing on the shot attempt.

What this thread does highlight though, is the tradition in Australian basketball of this sort of contact being whistled, in stark contrast with hoops around the world. People are used to this being called. Hopefully this will change.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
11:25 30 Oct 15

Reply #559826

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

There is nothing "clear" about the call at all, paul. Given that both players are moving and there is body and arm contact on the shooter, there are quite obviously aspects that will be up for debate.


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LV
Two years ago
11:28 30 Oct 15

Reply #559828

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Interesting comments paul.

What I said originally last night- above- is that it was a foul by the standards of this season's NBL (which I've been watching a lot of).

But whether or not this season's NBL standards indicate *the best way to ref professional basketball*, and *how this compares internationally* are two different discussions- and obviously far more enlightening and important ones!


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hikikomori
Two years ago
11:41 30 Oct 15

Reply #559833

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

also, the nbl needs to stop calling soft fouls

It goes against the tagline of the season saying "Hard ball' as its marketing catchcry


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:46 30 Oct 15

Reply #559836

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Since when is Australia known for giving scorers the Lebron treatment? If anything we are known for the opposite. For defenders getting too much advantage causing the game to bog down. I was stoked that it was a no call and we got the win because we didn't get many calls our way throughout most of the game but that is a bizarre interpretation of the NBL. Teams like NZ & Perth have spent years getting away with too much physicality on D and the spectacle of the game has suffered as a result because scorers are entertaining and need to be allowed to do their thing, not get bumped and hacked and held so much.
I think overall the league has been officiated pretty well this season but there is still quite a bit of inconsistency within games.


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paul
Two years ago
11:46 30 Oct 15

Reply #559837

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Luuuc, players are allowed to move, it's part of playing offence and defence. So long as the defence has position between his opponent and the rim he has the right to take contact.

I don't have any problem with you disagreeing, this place is all about discussion and different opinions, but to me there isn't any question of a foul on that play.


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paul
Two years ago
11:47 30 Oct 15

Reply #559839

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

LV, I think you summed it up perfectly. Why is the NBL seen as tough on big men? One of the reasons is we have traditionally made it much harder for them to defend the basket legally than many other competitions do.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:02 30 Oct 15

Reply #559846

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

One of the reasons it is hard on big men is because this league rewards the hell out of flopping


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Luuuc
Two years ago
13:33 30 Oct 15

Reply #559875

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"Luuuc, players are allowed to move, it's part of playing offence and defence"

Yeah, thanks for that ;)

I never said they weren't. I was just (a) rebutting the claim made earlier that Majok was "straight up", which the video clearly disproves, and (b) objecting to your dismissing of the whole conversation with "It's a clear no call.". That's pretty flippant IMO considering there were several big conversations about the call with decent points being made on both sides.
IMO the fact that Majok was moving laterally at the time of the contact adds another layer of ref interpretation to a decision that already had other elements to consider as well, and any additional interpretation required --> increased amount of doubt --> tougher call to make.

If there is not even "any question of a foul" to you on that play then IMO you're not looking very carefully.


Like I said in my first post on the subject, if that was consistently left as a no call in this league then I'd be just fine with that. But based on the way the sport is being officiated atm, it was far from an obvious clean block.


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Dazz
Two years ago
14:12 30 Oct 15

Reply #559894

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Majok plants his feet between Beal and the basket
No he doesn't. Go back right to the start of the video. At no point is he "planted" nor in a legal defensive position.

players are allowed to move, it's part of playing offence and defence
No, players are allowed to move backwards or sideways only after establishing position and only to maintain that position. Majok never has position, he is initially moving towards the baseline and turns out to make his move.
He makes contact with his left arm (foul) then with his chest (foul) then with his right arm whilst Beal is shooting (foul).

And here's the thing:
If what you claim is true, then it's a charging foul on Beal (as Majok was outside the circle.) So why wasn't the charge called???
The minor contact on the arm has no bearing on the shot attempt.

That's your interpretation only.
And this is the problem I have. A few games back, Beal put up a brick from outside, but the defending player made "incidental" contact on his arm. It really had no bearing, yet the foul was called and Beal got to shoot 3. I'm aware of what the rules say about contact actually effecting the shot, but the problem is that the refs are wildly inconsistent in calling it.
Had Majok done the same thing in the first half, he would have been pinged.

Part of the issue, is that refs don't like questionable calls in the dying the seconds to have an impact, so stuff they have called all night long, they suddenly let go. That's what gets people peeved.

As I said before, bad calls happen, it wasn't one call that decided the game, and people should get over it.


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koberulz
Two years ago
15:17 30 Oct 15

Reply #559923

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

If what you claim is true, then it's a charging foul on Beal (as Majok was outside the circle.) So why wasn't the charge called???
Majok wasn't displaced.


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paul
Two years ago
15:20 30 Oct 15

Reply #559925

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"No he doesn't. Go back right to the start of the video. At no point is he "planted" nor in a legal defensive position."

Yes he does. At the point he elevates he is between Beal and the basket and Beal hasn't left the ground.

"That's your interpretation only."

No, it's the interpretation employed widely around the world. The block is what I would call an NBL foul, something that has been called in our country from a long way back, but you won't find it replicated that often in other quality leagues.


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paul
Two years ago
15:24 30 Oct 15

Reply #559926

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

"If there is not even "any question of a foul" to you on that play then IMO you're not looking very carefully."

No Luuuc, it's just that I'm looking at it from a different perspective to you.

To me, and many around the world, if a big fella (or even little fella but they usually defend it differently) is between the offensive player and the basket and they take contact to the torso then it's good defence. That's what I saw.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:28 30 Oct 15

Reply #559927

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

GWB has spoken


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
15:51 30 Oct 15

Reply #559929

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Can the GWB Whisperer cut it out? Apart from being wrong, its adding no value.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
16:55 30 Oct 15

Reply #559948

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

Correct call. You will find NBL has beenn notorious on calling blocks fouls so that's why man aren't used to it being a no call. They are now getting it right.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
16:57 30 Oct 15

Reply #559949

re: Slow motion replay on the last play

many of you*


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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 4:37 pm, Thu 27 Apr 2017 | Posts: 655,271 | Last 7 days: 693