Wildcats views
Years ago

R6: Hawks vs Wildcats

The games only hours away and no post!

It should be another good one between these two teams. They're polar opposites - Hawks run and gun with poor defense, The Wildcats have a super defense but a spluttering offense - Styles make fights they say.


Here's my preview to the week ahead for the Wildcats
http://wildcatsviews.com/2015/11/10/perth-wildcats-face-tough-week/

Topic #38444 | Report this topic


Matthew  
Years ago

I miss Jack Toft.

when are they holding his Funeral?

Reply #563366 | Report this post


cats 4 life  
Years ago

Contain the perimeter and should be close enough to get the w.

Reply #563370 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Ogilvy v Jawai will be a mouth-watering matchup.

Reply #563400 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

As much as I like Jawai, everytime he has the ball I think he is gonna turn it over, but he suprises me more often than not.

A few more games of owning opposition front courts should get me used to it.

Reply #563401 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Hawks at home just...

Reply #563410 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth is short handed. I cant see them wining this one. Don't get me wrong, they are the better team, but the Hawks being fired up for pay back and Perth shorthanded is a bad combination for perth...

Reply #563456 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Contain the perimeter and should be close enough to get the w.
Luckily, we have the best perimeter defender in the league.

Oh, wait...

Reply #563457 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

On paper Illawarra at home vs Perth without Martin is an easy tip.

But- Perth were phenomenal last time they visited Wollongong, undermanned with 106 points and a strong win. And then they destroyed Illawarra in a dominant performance in the return bout.

So that all adds an element of intrigue here.

Hawks *must* rebound better than they did the last two matchups.

Reply #563460 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Pat - I think you can relax a bit. In turnovers per game Jawai ranks 20th in the league. Ogilvy - his opponent tonight - ranks 3rd in the league for that stat.

BTW, Jawai is the only non-guard in the top 10 for assists per game, other than Childress, who has only played 1 game. Jawai has 3 per game. Not bad for a centre spending half of every game on the bench!

Reply #563468 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

I must admit, I loved that Black Tornado spin move on the baseline to free himself for the slam on the Crocs at Perth.

Reply #563474 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

As much as I love my Cats ...I think Be o will be better prepared this time.

Reply #563479 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think the commentator is a little bit special...

Reply #563488 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

Did I just hear him say Jeremy Beal?

Reply #563489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How perth are not up by more is a mystery. They are tottaly dominating this game

Reply #563491 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jawai has the passing ability of LeBron

Reply #563492 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Penny is on. Bad signs for perth

Reply #563493 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Years ago

The fitter that Jawai gets the more influence he is having on the game! He could have be the difference for Perth's chances at the end of the season if he continues to get into shape.

Reply #563494 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A fit Damo and Jawai makes Perth faveriots but that is easier said then done

Reply #563495 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Fave riots?

Reply #563496 | Report this post


Blowout Troll  
Years ago

A full court press results in an open 3...

The most stupid strategy in basketball.

No wonder it is never used in the NBA

Reply #563497 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

flophage

Reply #563498 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jesse from way down town!!

Reply #563500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow the hawks are shooting lights outy

Reply #563501 | Report this post


Blowout Troll  
Years ago

I am telling you all now, i reckon the rims in the league are incredibly soft allowing for higher scores.

Reply #563502 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

Mmmmm, those A League crowds..

Reply #563503 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Years ago

^Except for the rims in Perth where if it is not all net it is not in.

Reply #563504 | Report this post


Indoorkite  
Years ago

Nbl Twitter account posts highlight of Jawais goaltending....."Jawai almost with the block" why not put up highlights of bricks "almost a three"

Reply #563505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't care what anyone says, I want Ellis at the Wildcats next year.

Reply #563506 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Can't stop Ellis? Really Perth??

Reply #563508 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anytime Penny misses it's a shock

Reply #563509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

soft league

Reply #563510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jawai really doesnt use his fouls well for someone so valuable to his teams success.

Reply #563511 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

Now he's Jerryd Beal

Reply #563512 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

Then Heal calls him Jeremy..

Reply #563513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Come to terms with it pat. The commentary teams are bound to make some errors... sadly.

Reply #563514 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Lisch... I liked these shenanigans a lot more when you were a Wildcat

Reply #563515 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Years ago

Looks and sounds like a good crowd. Worry of no one turning up mid week is slowly drifting away.

Reply #563516 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

What kind of call was that on Knight

Reply #563518 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Dafuq was that call against Knight about?

Reply #563519 | Report this post


Me  
Years ago

What did jawai do to get a unsportsmanlike?

Reply #563520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Come back Lisch

Reply #563521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hey Pat, hopefully you can deal with this without doing anything rash.

Reply #563522 | Report this post


TBag  
Years ago

Apparently pulling a shirt is an automatic unsportsmanlike

Reply #563523 | Report this post


Pat  
Years ago

I'm was about to find out where Heal lives, then you guys saved him.

Reply #563524 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Fair enough too. Soft in a way because there wasn't much in it, but it was not remotely a play at the ball, so I like that as an unsportsmanlike.

Reply #563525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Another home town reffing garbage

Reply #563526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cats dont have the scoring power to go with Hawks when they play like this.

Reply #563527 | Report this post


TBag  
Years ago

The lack of reaction from Jawai suggests he was aware of the rule too.

Reply #563528 | Report this post


Indoorkite  
Years ago

Wildcats are good at defending that baseline cut

Reply #563529 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

It's as much the d as the lack of scoring power. We're giving up a lot of easy ones.
Hawks looking great tonight.

Reply #563530 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Considering Hawks have dominated the half, 6 points is pretty good effort by the Cats

Reply #563531 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Make that 8

Reply #563532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hawks only dominated the second quarter and 8 point buffer is pretty handy in a potentially tight contest. Hawks fans would be happy with this.

Reply #563534 | Report this post


Blowout Troll  
Years ago

The defenses in this league is overall very very poor...alot has to do with the officiating...

Reply #563535 | Report this post


Indoorkite  
Years ago

How much better are games without the pointless crosses to Dan Ewing and "his boi" or "main man"

Reply #563536 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed indoor

Reply #563537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Melbourne is starting to get like Sydney with the C grade celebrities going to be scene and I don't like it.

Reply #563538 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its all part of hyping the league. Comes across corny but league has to try these things. Dan Ewing isnt the hardest face to look at and it all about trying to appear in the times etc

Reply #563540 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Prather is so average

Reply #563543 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ogilvy instigated that contact

Bloody hell

Reply #563544 | Report this post


TBag  
Years ago

Massive flop

Reply #563545 | Report this post


Blowout Troll  
Years ago

LOL, how was that and 1 for Lisch? LOLOL

FUCK THIS LEAGUE IS FUCKING JOKE

Reply #563546 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Great to see Pert potentially lose again. The League is so much better for it.

Reply #563547 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Did I just hear what I thought I heard?

"It's a flop free league in the NBL."

Reply #563548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Annnnd here come the cats forum warriors complaining on every call and 'lol-ing' in how bad the league is. Hawks look great tonight they were ready the Cats.

Reply #563549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I'd argue that Kenny is more of a shooting guard than a point guard

Reply #563550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hire loves that spot in Illawara

Reply #563551 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Definitely a PG with a pass-first mentality

Reply #563552 | Report this post


Wildcats80  
Years ago

Well done an on, if you take pleasure seeing wildcats lose then I'm sure you haven't had much pleasure over the years

Reply #563553 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah but Luuc he can't really drive and make a pass yet he's probably the Cats best shooter from three funnily enough

Reply #563554 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Time to move jawai on. Not fit, can't play defence and unless he is dunking the ball he simply can not finish around the basket. Clubs are putting him in pick and roll action and blowing straight past him or pulling up for an uncontested jump shot.

I feel for the other 4 players on the court scrambling on defence trying to cover for him.

Reply #563555 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Gaze: "Hire was tagged-team from behind"

Reply #563556 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

He's a solid shooter but the Hawks have been leaving him wide open. As Bevo said in the timeout, disrespecting him. Prather is the player they should be daring to shoot, not Kenny.
You're right that he's not really a drive and dish type, but not all PGs are.

Reply #563557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I actually find there are more fans that dislike the cats fans more than the team. Its a bit of an odd one but they really are the collingwood of the NBL.

Reply #563559 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cats are gonna get smashed by NZ

Reply #563560 | Report this post


Blowout Troll  
Years ago

I have no doubt in my mind that players bet on the games they play in...no doubt in my mind

Reply #563562 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No you dont move on from Jawai you learn how to change your style of play to accomodate his strengths and cover his weaknesses.

Reply #563563 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jervis has improved out of sight

Reply #563564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is that anon implying the cats are throwing the game? Because they are betting against themselves? In a 1.91 a peice bettng ratio. Such silly humans have access to the Internet.

Reply #563566 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

Jawai's weaknesses seem to far outweigh his strengths

Reply #563567 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Prather puts up the weakest shots

Reply #563568 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Someone tell this guy that not every hesitation move is a "Euro step"

Reply #563569 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In this game on this night perhaps but people just make the silliest most dramatic statements possible.

Reply #563570 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dem ankles

Reply #563571 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Broken ankles
WOW

Reply #563572 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Change your style to accomodate his strengths?? Which are what exactly? Dunking and ..........

It's no secret you put in the hard work and the results will take care of them selves, look what matt knight has done to his career by getting his body right and being fit.
I've never heard someone request a team change their style of play to suit 1 out of shape unfit player.. I'm a wildcats fan but With comments like that I think I'm starting to see why every other teams fans can't stand us.

Reply #563574 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jervis >>>> Jawai

Reply #563575 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Reffing is atrocious.

Reply #563576 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lisch awoke alpha dog Beal

Reply #563577 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

I have no doubt in my mind that players bet on the games they play in...no doubt in my mind


Referees too...

Reply #563578 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Beal plays better with broken ankles

Reply #563579 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

MOst 145+Kg players are better than Jawai in the NBL. @$250K plus he should be charged with fraud.

Reply #563580 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

here comes the wildcats

Reply #563581 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Fantastic call on the flop. Credit where credit is due.

Reply #563582 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jervis has a high centre of gravity

That was not a flop!

Reply #563583 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Kudos to the refs for that flop call

Reply #563584 | Report this post


Indoorkite  
Years ago

YES! Precedent set, now let's see if they keep calling them.

Reply #563585 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ahh relax about the reffing you guys will be sming if you win.

Reply #563586 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Love the Perth pholinators. Finely there is a DOG and she's great.

Reply #563587 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Beal is unleashing his final form!

Reply #563588 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HOw did Beal make that shot with brokn ankles. Amazing. Go the phlopinators I say.

Reply #563589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Prather taking 3's should be a no, no!

Reply #563590 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Years ago

Beal completely unconscious out there!

Reply #563591 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Beal man on a mission

Reply #563592 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Hire all over the back and no call. Coenraad is a solid man too..was a solid hit.

Reply #563593 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

MACDUB all you do is whinge about perth. put a sock in it

Reply #563594 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No don't take Jervis out!

Reply #563595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Another very close game this season

#ExcitingNBL

Reply #563596 | Report this post


Touch the rim  
Years ago

Yeah... if refs could just err on the side of 'block' over 'charge' that would be great. I mean, it's an ugly play to watch and if refs call more blocks than charges it sets a tone and players will stop putting their bodies on the line

Reply #563597 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

For this perth to be doing this without Martin is amazing

Reply #563598 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jawai was always going to be a problem. Perth were foolish enough to fall for it. Smarter people would have known

Reply #563599 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

DO you know how to pass Prather???

Reply #563600 | Report this post


snooch  
Years ago

LOL Jawai...

Reply #563601 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Prather camping on the three point line is the funniest joke I've heard all week

Reply #563602 | Report this post


Indoorkite  
Years ago

Lisch doing his best Goulding impression

Reply #563603 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow I saw that charge and I knew where Lish learnt it. Redfloppage. Refs got that one right.

Reply #563604 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Anon, how so? I said reffing was atrocious..never referred to a specific team. Its bad on both ends

Regardless of what team you follow its hard not to like the calling of that flop tech. I don't mind Perth. If Webster flopped like that i'd say it was a great call too.

Reply #563606 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A week ago cats fans were all over his nuts. Just dumb dribble

Reply #563607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

beal is not human

Reply #563608 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Looking forward to fstos telling us again what a shit import Beal is

Reply #563609 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

MVBEAL

Reply #563610 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know Luuc I stained him in Ozhoops for that!

Reply #563611 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth went beast mode in the 4th.

Reply #563612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jawai give all your salary to Jermain

Reply #563613 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#WildcatHeart

Reply #563614 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Good W to the Cats. Well deserved. Beal best import I have seen play with 2 broken ankles. Can't wait for the cutting up of that tape on a loop.

Reply #563615 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It is mind boggoling how this team lost to the Crocs twice

Reply #563616 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Jervis was instrumental in that win. Great stuff off the bench

Reply #563617 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

In hindsight Lischs' crossover was very bad news for the Hawks. It sure woke Beal up.

If Beal was that aggressive every game, he'd be MVP of this league IMO.

Hawks' bench is a major problem. Perths' better depth showed through.

Reply #563618 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah i hate perh with a passion but where is fstos at with that shit that was being said last week. Beal is there best player and its not even close. Is the league still a fucking joke btw anon or you all ok now??

Reply #563619 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yet another blow out game ;)

Reply #563620 | Report this post


Touch the rim  
Years ago

Warren. Warren... stop Warren. The game is not over m888

Reply #563621 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth gets Damo right this team ill be frightning

Reply #563622 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Oh no, Heal please don't bring that "score the ball" crap to NBL commentary.
Pet peeve

Reply #563624 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I dont think its that crazy the crocs beat them twice. And i dont think its that crazy they have doninated the Hawks, who should be ashamed of themselves... teams always match up differently. What keeps the league interesting.

Reply #563625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jervis deserves to start over Jawai who is getting minutes on reputation only at the moment.

Reply #563626 | Report this post


Touch the rim  
Years ago

Lisch lost his mind there with that final three-point shot. Get it through hands! Maybe the moment got to him.

I'd probably say NZ and Perth are (again) championship favourites

Reply #563627 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Such a luxury that Perth can have a C rotation of Jawai and Jervis.

Reply #563629 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lisch got his ass handed to him by Beal after showboating.

Reply #563630 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Lisch was awesome and I fully expected that last 3 to go down. With certain players I don't think that's a bad shot.

Reply #563631 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Beal just emphatically answered the Beal or Lisch question.

Dollar Dollar Beal y'all!!

Reply #563632 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It was never a question to begin with!

Reply #563633 | Report this post


Wildcat  
Years ago

Well coached Gleeson, great team play the wildcats.

Reply #563634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sack Gleeson?

Reply #563635 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

'It was never a question to begin with!'

It has been with Cats fans.

Reply #563636 | Report this post


Callisto 75  
Years ago

Jervis deserves an opportunity to start. Wouldn't mind him as starting Centre next to Knight next season. Great shotblocker

Reply #563638 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I wonder what Bevo will write on Facebook tonight??

Reply #563639 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed Callisto, he is starter quality now.

Reply #563640 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hawks need Martin back and a second import 4/5 asap

Reply #563641 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Prather has nothing but tunnel vision when he drives.

A few times it was a 2 on 1 and threw up a contested shot at the rim.

Reply #563642 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Can't believe Cats shot 50% from three and hit 12 of them

Reply #563643 | Report this post


Callisto 75  
Years ago

Said from the start Illawarra should've gone for a second import instead of Ellis. Even if a budget import like Montreal or just a rebounder would help.

Think Bevo needs to try Davidson next to Ogilvy at times, Davidson can shoot - Davidson has been rubbish this year though.

Reply #563645 | Report this post


Demos showed his zero point value by taking out Beals legs when he had no chance at getting the ball.

Reply #563646 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Far more positive comments to be aid than gutter mongering as usual.

Reply #563647 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Could see Hawks getting garret Jackson when hakim warrick comes back

Reply #563648 | Report this post


Marcus Camby  
Years ago

Good win by the Cats.

Why can't they do that against the Crocs?

Reply #563650 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Cats best & worst is poles apart. It's no surprise to me that Bad Cats lost to the Crocs. Too many minutes of Bad Cats probably should have cost us the game tonight but we were bailed out by a pretty special 4th quarter.

We're still not using Jawai & Knight well enough.

Reply #563651 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Just way to much depth even without a guy lke Damo. However if the play like what they did in the second and 3rd I NZ there wont be any comebacks. If they play like they did in the 4th, they will make it a even money game

Reply #563652 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Corbin Wroe's three was the difference in the end.

Reply #563653 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Missed the game, but by reading through this the Cats were awesome then they were crap and then the refs were horrible and the league was an embarrassment then Jawai should be but then the cats were awesome and everything was ok with the universe!

Reply #563656 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

I actually thought the refs were as good that game as they've been all season. Certainly some excellent tweaks compared to the last round.

Reply #563657 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Gleeson needs to tell Beal go out there and just be free. When he gets going he might be the best scorer in the league .

Reply #563658 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bloody hell some of you cats fans get carried away over a quarter or two. Beal for MVP! Jervis for All Star 5! Fire Jawai! Secure Gleeson until 2023!

Reply #563659 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

He's a burst scorer, and an awesome one at that, but not a guy who can produce that in spurts. It's almost like he has an epiphany that lasts for a few minutes and he nails a few daggers in that space.

Both he and Lisch were awesome tonight, I think the answer to that question is neither, they are both super players in their own way.

Reply #563660 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I think Bevo too often runs a second unit with little firepower - there were patches tonight of moving the ball around but without seeming to have a goal. Why would you have Penney or Lisch both sitting at the same time when they can make things happen? Demos and White is certainly looking like doubling up with Rhys out - why have them on together, and add Davidson who no longer looks for a shot?

Reply #563661 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Gee whiz beal was special in that final term and so was Jervis. Prather is very good at playing the passing lanes pity we haven't seen him and marto share the court together much yet but if they do watch out!

Reply #563663 | Report this post


Wildcats views  
Years ago

Here's my recap http://wildcatsviews.com/2015/11/11/perth-wildcats-stun-the-hawks-again/

Reply #563668 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

Dunno what was sweeter, the win or the egg on the face for all the haters talking smack ;)

Also I applaude the refs for calling the flop on Jervis, not calling the charges when players flopped and for tagging Jawai for the USM for pulling at jerseys. First steps to cleaning up the NBL. Hope it continues.

Reply #563671 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

I didn't think the Jervis flop call was a particularly good one, TBH. I thought he got hit in exactly the right spot to knock him off balance. If he'd taken the same hit to the chest, sure.

Reply #563672 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

For me, I think without that injection of intensity and scoring off the bench that Jarrad Weeks provided for the Hawks they just couldn't seem to cover his loss...

How quickly we forget!

Reply #563675 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

I'm also not confident that the Hawks unit are that fit.

They give a lot of their main players extended breaks, but they still find a way to run out of puff in the last few minutes. Not really just physical fatigue but also mental

9 games played - they've been outscored in the 4th in 7 of those games and have tied one game in 4th quarter scoring.

Reply #563676 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Also, I have mentioned Davidson before, he has been a veteran and obviously done lots in his career, but he is passed it and it is time for a younger player to back up Ogilvy on that roster IMHO...

Reply #563678 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

koberulz, certainly a flop IMO.

You could tell he wanted to take a charge and he was hoping Penney would try take him on the sideline. He had in his mind 'i'm going to hit the deck here because i reckon he"ll come straight at me' - when he didn't it was an obvious flop/falling to the ground.

Jervis knew it was a flop as well. Got straight back up and huddled with the Perth players.

Reply #563681 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It's an interesting one, because there was contact and that level of contact is regularly called a charge in the NBL.

I'd have no problem with that tech if the charge/block was called properly in the NBL and 'plankers' who anchor their feet and let the contact take them backwards weren't regularly rewarded. But they are, so I think Jervis was harshly done by.

Reply #563682 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hawks just need to pull the trigger and bring in a decent import for extra scoring power down low. They are to predictable in their approach at moment and come fourth your tired and your shots dont fall. Hence they are struggling in the fourth. This team wont win fonals games as is. Martin is not the answer.

Reply #563687 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

paul, couldn't disagree more. That level of contact is not generally a charge.

Again, you are looking at the result. Seeing a big man go down and presuming that the contact is the same as contact which is regularly called a charge.

It's not the contact which is the same, it's the result.

And the fact that the result is the same as other charges means absolutely nothing.

Reply #563690 | Report this post


I've got no problems with the Jervis flop call. I have a problem with no warning being given to Lisch a few minutes later.

Reply #563691 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pulling a shirt is unsportsman like. Apperent blocking calls get flop calls but a statue of liberty fall from lish is ok.

NBL REFS keep raising the bar

Reply #563693 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If the referee calls a foul he cant call a flop warning. That is the interpretation.

Reply #563694 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jervis got a hand in the chest. I don't think he flopped so badly to deserve a tech. Should've just been play on

Reply #563696 | Report this post


#694 is that true? That doesn't make sense. You can be guilty of committing a foul AND flopping in the same play. The refs can also be guilty of getting both wrong on the same play which is the exact reason why players continue to flop.

Reply #563698 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 694, if a flop is deemed a technical, then cant it be called any time during a game?

Reply #563700 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The FIBA directive is if you call a foul you cannot call a flop. I dont make the rules just telling you what the directive and interpretation is.

Reply #563702 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"paul, couldn't disagree more."

Right back at you. Look at Wagstaff defending Conklin in the post the previous week, or Goulding defending Webster. Similar contact from Ogilvy on Knight sent Matty flying earlier in last night's game but he wasn't warned for a flop.

I could find hundreds of examples in the NBL where players get contact, plank and fall backwards and get a call, or at the least aren't warned.

Until they fix how they call the charge/block I think only Patty Mills/Mick Penisi level flops should be getting techs, otherwise you're adding another level of impact from the refs' inconsistency.

Reply #563707 | Report this post


FYI  
Years ago

^ +1

Reply #563712 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

It was a flop.
Whether you want to call it a flopping tech or just leave it unwhistled is debatable. Ultimately in the long term, just calling nothing is probably fine, but in this current climate of trying to improve the game, I like that being called a flop. There's no way that contact should have forced Jervis to the floor.
Good call, refs.

Reply #563713 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

... and as far as precedent goes, in terms of what has been called in the past - who cares. That's missing the point, which is that we are trying to make the game the ideal standard, not trying to replicate the problems of the past.

Reply #563714 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It's not about that past, it's about what's happening now. Similar contact in the same game/round is being called a charge, block and flop. It's ridiculous and needs to be fixed.

If the refs can't get the charge/block right, which as a whole they're a mile off at the moment, they shouldn't have the added responsibility of governing flops.

I'm all for getting rid of what Jervis did last night, but you won't achieve that with flopping techs while you're still rewarding it with charges.

Reply #563720 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

Right, so stop rewarding charges then.

Reply #563721 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

* rewarding WITH charges

Reply #563722 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I'm with you 100% on that one! For mine, you only call certain charges, and then review flops by video during the week.

Public naming and shaming will deal with this a lot quicker than the occasional tech, and so will players being left on their backsides with their team a defender short. You don't see many guys planking in Europe because they don't get the call.

Reply #563725 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

OK look, I agree that policing flops should not be the sole responsibility of the refs. It's a big ask for them to judge that in the heat of the moment, and a post-game review system is going to be more reliable.

But that said, if a ref sees one that they are sure of, and they call it, then I applaud that too. Because penalties during a game are more meaningful than a fine during the week, and are more likely to result in a change of behaviour IMO. A fine 2 days later doesn't stop the Wildcats flopping their way through the 4th quarter trying to get calls, but that tech did.

So I'm just saying credit where it's due to that ref. I'm not suggesting that's the only way it can/should be dealt with though.

Reply #563726 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It was a correct call, no doubt, but like I said it's pointless while similar acts get a charge, the reward is there to still do it.

As you said, stop calling soft charges and the problem largely goes away as there is no incentive.

I also reckon with NBL social media as strong as it is, players being called out midweek for their charges would be quite a disincentive.

Reply #563727 | Report this post


Rag  
Years ago

Paul your quite public that the Nbl refs don't call charges correctly
What happens in the Nbl lots is offensive players drive at the Defense & lean in causing contact
They start to dislodge the defender & then the defenders are not so strong so they fall back, giving the contact plenty of "sauce"

If the ball handler CAUSES the contact down the middle & dislodges the defender shouldn't this still be called a charge even though the defender protects themselves by falling?

I agree that situations like Goulding defending Webster last week is a flop because he went backwards by about six steps for slight contact but it seems like you want no charge fouls in the game

I think the good Refs can call them when deserved

Reply #563728 | Report this post


Sorry anon with the FIBA rules, wasn't saying you were incorrect. Just saying that the interpretation doesn't do much to solve the problem. I actually think it adds to it.

Reply #563729 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I disagree Rag, I think charges are called too often in Australia (not just the NBL) when the defender isn't displaced, rather they take contact at the spot and let it take them to ground,and also when the defender has established legal guarding position.

If you watch the NBA or European basketball, once the defender is beaten they tend to open their stance and defend alongside the ball-handler, relying on help defence behind them.

In the NBL defenders are far more happy to create contact in that situation knowing there is a good chance they'll get a charge call.

The same goes for elevating players. In the NBL a defender who steps in after the offensive player has elevated will rarely be called for a block, they'll usually get a charge or no call. In the NBA and Europe the elevating player is better protected.

The two factors mentioned above - along with how blocked shots are whistled - encourages a more athletic game in Europe and the USA, whereas in Australia the safest defensive play is to get contact on the ground, and the smart offensive play is not to elevate at the basket.

Reply #563737 | Report this post


Vic Wildcat  
Years ago

Just my thoughts on the chargeflop. It's either a charge or nothing. If the players flopsdives leave him sprawled on the court. It leaves the defense one man down whilst he's laying there, pretty sure coach will get up him if an easy basket results from him laying on the floor for no good reason.

Reply #563743 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I look at it this way:

If the ball handler is out of control and initiates contact and the defender is set with hands out then it is a no call or a charge.

If the ball handler is in control and the contact is minimal but the defender falls, it is a flop, otherwise it will be a no call.

A foul by the defender reaching in or out of position is just a foul.

Easy!

Reply #563744 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Oh, I am not a ref, just a junior coach^

Reply #563745 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It's important to remember it's a very hard call for the refs, one of the toughest in any sport, but that's why leadership is needed from above.

At the moment Alby Joseph is saying he just wants each charge/block/flop called on its merits, but without full-time refs and with a real variance in skill level amongst the panel that is just delivering inconsistency.

Apart from the charge/block/flop I think the reffing's been ok this season, but the charge/block/flop is an absolute mess. I thought they called it pretty well last night, particularly Brad Giersch, but there needs to be more consistency across the panel.

Reply #563747 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

It looks to me like Lisch pushes off Jervis, first from Jervis's hip and then down onto his thigh. Not hard, but with the location and direction of the pressure I can see Jervis's leg legitimately giving out there.

Reply #563763 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its taken you guys 20 hours and a million posts plus replay after replay. The ref has 0.3 of a sec to make a call on the spot. Maybe you give him the benefit of the doubt hey.

Reply #563768 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon^, they have proven that with three of them and the benefit of replays they can't get it right either!

Reply #563782 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is the result shoving a tall man on the move with a high centre of gravity in the chest with enough force to push him over a flop?

I'm a Perth, fan but I thought Redhages fall tuo the floor while he was defending a drive to the basket with no contact as blatant a flop as I've ever seen, but no one here even commented on it?

Reply #563795 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

paul, i think the high charge rate also comes from the way guys attack the rim in the NBL..overseas they will sidestep contact, move in the air, go around or through

What I have noticed in the NBL is that some players are so one-dimensional in the way they attack the rim that theyl just bowl people over. They only have a north south flow.

I do agree that refs need to stop calling charges when players are going north east/north west and the guy taking the charge is not square. You do see some bad ones in the NBL. A few east/west calls too!!

Reply #563798 | Report this post


*Drops 26 dolla beals..*

"You break my ankles, I'll break your heart".

Reply #563805 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#782 2 things. .. one) you do know all 3 are not looking at the ball at the same time? Two) you cant review a judgement call!

You guys are and you cant agree.... probably not a stretch that in an instant its a hard call

Reply #563806 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The NBL players I see in international competitions and overseas leagues don't commit more charges than others. I certainly wouldn't call too many guys one dimensional in the NBL, it's a very multi-skilled league.

Reply #563807 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the amount of charges in the NBL compared to some other leagues, but the what constitutes a charge and the affect that has on how players defend.

The NBL is a high-penetration league, and more players are encouraged to penetrate than in some league, so there will be probably be more charges.

But in Australia, not just the NBL, we seem to call the charge/block in the defence's favour. When you watch a lot of overseas ball you see if there is doubt it usually goes in favour of the offence.

Reply #563814 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Back when Peter Carey couldn't figure out how to make the ref review videos on YouTube private, I watched through them and at one point it specifically said block/charge was to be called in favour of the defence. So unless that's changed, it's not just a matter of 'seem to'.

Reply #563817 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The amount of off the ball fouls missed makes me think ref's don't look at anything!

Reply #563818 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Mal Cooper told refs to call it in favour of the offence, this year my understanding is Alby Joseph isn't giving them a particular way to call it when they are in doubt.

Reply #563819 | Report this post




 

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