NZ aren't over the cap, if they were they would have kept Rhys Carter and Ibekwe.

The article is now behind a paywall so if anyone can access it please feel free to post the important points

Suggests that Jawai is getting $250k or more. Rest is about what you'd expect in terms of some teams likely being over, others surely under, etc.

Notes that the NBL/clubs won't reveal marquee player names this season where they did previously.

Concludes that realistically overspending brings more talent to the league so there's that.

I would like the see the cap raised anyway. Let the big markets get legitimate stars in, it will help the regional teams anyway. They can continue to spend under the cap and people will still turn out to see the big names from the big markets.

Of course they are. Guys like Goulding, Blanchfield, Kickert, Aylen, Kirsten and Warrick don't come cheap.

Just have a luxury tax scheme that gives back to the poorer teams.

#problemsolvered

I never really get into the whole salary cap debacle and who's cheating it - generally you can always point out reasons why the guys who people think are being paid mega bucks aren't (wants to win, back-end of career so market worth is low, wants more playing time).

Melbourne is a peculiar one for mind though.

Goulding, Warrick, Blanchfield, Holt, Kickert, Barlow would have asked for big coin.

Only explanation is that the bench guys like Iggy, Tomlinson, Hill, Patton are getting paid absolutely peanuts and for all but one of those guys it probably sounds about right.

Won't see the positive effects of that kind of scheme until a couple of years.

A lot of things the league can do to help parity and smaller teams.

Just need proper auditing and more transparency. Lift cap to 1.25 mil including marquee, then charge luxury tax if anyone goes over, which then goes to the less profitable teams somehow.

Was there not a proposition where players with Asian passports are outside of salary cap also, would that then mean both Warwick AND Holt are being paid outside of the cap?

The guy who owns the league isn't interested in a salary cap audit. The richer clubs realise this and have spent accordingly. The poorer clubs can't, so hopefully crowds don't dwindle again for them, or they don't bankrupt themselves trying to compete with the big boys.

Amazing how short people's memories are.

I would go 1 million luxury threshold with no hard cap, then anything over is 50 cents on the dollar back to the smaller clubs.

For example.

Perth and melbourne pay 1.5 million each for there roster.
Both have to pay $250,000 in tax each which gets delivered evenly to any team under the threshold.

So in this model, all 6 other teams would get $83k each to help cover costs.

Thats a large chunk of money, and would help the likes of Townsville for sure, I don't see why it wouldn't be implemented. Also scrap the points system.

Reckon Melbourne definitely are. Blanchfield wouldn't have left Townsville for cheap and Goulding and Barlow would be expensive coming back from Europe and the imports would be higher priced imports you'd imagine.

Perth possibly could be but if they were you'd expect someone better than Prather. Plus the core group would've taken less to stay in Perth imo. All dependent on how much Jawai and Prather are getting I think.

Townsville, Cairns and Adelaide certainly aren't over.

Would probably say the Breakers are under the cap as otherwise they would've re signed Ibekwe and Carter.

Illawarra just came out of voluntary administration and reckon Ogilvy and Lisch took less to play for Bevo. So would lean towards under.

Who knows with Sydney!?

From what I remember it's $850k plus marquee player or $1 million

I like the tax idea, and it would help out teams like Townsville (and any new franchises) a great deal, too. Not sure how the tax paying teams would feel about it, though. Would probably make the non-tax paying teams care a great deal more about salary cap audits too.

I talked to someone from one of the poorer clubs recently and he said that he doesn't care that there's an uneven playing field (neither he nor I are saying clubs are over the cap), because so long as the NBL is getting such quality players over here then it's a positive for the league. He's cool with it now but let's look at the situation again in another couple years when the league is flourishing... then it's time to even things out. I reckon that'd be the general train of thought throughout the league

Blanchfield wouldn't have left Townsville for cheap and Goulding and Barlow would be expensive coming back from Europe

Should definitely be looked at in some way.

It helps the league obtain / distribute funds and parity better, NBA has the luxury tax system and while I'm not saying that's why they're the best, most profitable, it's obviously a method of funding they use.


From Wikipedia:


"The NBA utilizes a soft salary cap, meaning there is a salary cap but there are a variety of exceptions that allow teams to exceed that cap. For example, teams can re-sign players already on the team to an amount up to the maximum salary allowed by the league for up to five years regardless of where their payroll is relative to the cap. This provision is known as the ""Larry Bird" exception, named after the former Boston Celtics great who was retained by that team until his retirement under the provisions of this rule. The result is that the majority of teams are over the cap at any given time.

In addition to the soft cap, the NBA utilizes a luxury tax system that is applied if the team payroll exceeds a separate threshold higher than the salary cap. If a team exceeds the luxury tax threshold, they must pay one dollar to the league for every dollar that they are over the limit. The resulting total is then distributed to the remaining teams that are under the tax threshold. However, the luxury tax penalty is only applied if the league average payroll exceeds a separate threshold."

Toddler afternoon nap time is it anon..

Just need proper auditing and more transparency. Lift cap to 1.25 mil including marquee, then charge luxury tax if anyone goes over, which then goes to the less profitable teams somehow.

There's pro and cons to raising the cap I spose.

On one side, it would start allowing us to compete more with Europe and China for talent.

The other side would be it being contradictory to poor teams who don't have the money anyway.

I thought about the idea of extra imports before, but then what would happen if the reason a team was last on the table because of injuries to star players, who then come back the next year healthy, plus an extra import on the team.

e.g. Sydney with Childress back next year plus two imports.

Hard one.

There is a Tax in place for signing a marquee that takes you over $1,000,000

By not announcing marquee players though no one is paying the tax, so the teams that arent financial enough to spend big have a double negative effect

One of the next things for LK, Jeremy and the gang to fix..

Townsville, Cairns and Adelaide certainly aren't over.


I wouldn't rule Cairns out of that by a long shot.

The marquee player system already has a luxury tax in place.

25% so it seems.. but no naming of Marquee Player so what good will that do.

The fact that they're not named publicly doesn't mean the league isn't informed. I mean, player salaries aren't made public at all, but there's still a salary cap.

The paying of funds from the top spending teams to those below the cap on a proportional basis sounds as though it has merit.

Wouldn't be a fan of it in the current climate though..otherwise for example this year a team like TVL will just hinge/bank on underspending to get more cash. It doesn't address the underying issues as to why the franchise isn't acheiving profitability..delaying the inevitable if teams decide to underspend one year.

But certainly under the right circumstances it has merit.

Re Melbourne, they released Ibekwe and signed Warrick after Barlow was placed on the injury list, so I don't believe Barlow’s salary is relevant here- it wouldn’t be counting towards the cap.

High paid top 6 to be sure, but as for the rest of the team:

Hill- Was buried deep on the bench of the bottom team last season.
Iggy- Came straight from college where his numbers were modest.
Patton- In his second season. Not as highly rated or experienced as most of the back up 5’s in the NBL.

There is a luxury tax system in place, with the funds from the four (?) teams who are utilising the marquee player exemption being distributed to the other clubs.

I remember it being announced as 25% last year but a club official told me recently that it is 100% of what you are over.

So if that's correct, and the four clubs are a combined $200K over, for example, I assume there would $50K going to each of the other clubs.

snooch where are you getting that info re. Cairns? They always have a 'spend-to-the-cap' fundraiser to try and get extra funds from the fans so they can actually pay the salary cap, before they even need to contemplate spending over it.

snooch put down the pipe.... Taipans aren't over the cap, they're not even close to spending the cap. There are 1 or 2 individual players in the league that almost make as much as our starting 5...

Wilson - that's spot on. From what i vaguely remember from a report last year the taipans have set their spend at 80% of the cap with 5% on top of that from the 'spend the cap' efforts.

So that entire Taipans roster is getting paid around $850,000?

Heihr(spelling?) would be on minimum, Shaun Bruce probably not a whole lot more but that leaves what $750,000 odd for the remaining 8 players?

Wow.

LV - that's my maths as well.

Wouldn't surprise me. If I remember Loughton took less for more years. Would be interested to see how much Wilbekin was on last year??

I suspect you're overestimating Starks' and Craig's money. There are a lot more imports than there are decent playing options out there at the moment.

Melbourne United however:

Goulding $350k+
Holt, Warrick, Blanchfield, Kickert approx. $200k each
plus five other players to add in there...

^ is that satire or......?

He's just trolling

Goulding gets paid on a per flop basis so is clearly on marquee money

Jarrad Weeks gets paid by the size of his shorts, so he is also on marquee money

Enjoying a few quiet ones tonight Luuuc?!

Kings game wasn't quite enough to keep me focussed :p
My apologies

There are strong rumours floating around that Townsville is well under the cap.

Markovic and Blanchfield both left.

I don't see why Blanchfield would necessarily be on top, top dollar

I think Goulding, Kickert and Warrick would be on good money.

Majok, Blanchfield and Holt I'm not so sure about. Holt didn't exactly set the D league on fire last season. Solid numbers but not dominant numbers.

Because Blanchfield was one of the most sought-after free agents, a 24-year-old who'd just made the All-Second Team and with his best basketball well in front of him. Hard to imagine he wouldn't be in the $150-200K range.

But with all the elite locals coming back into the league- many of whom I'd expect would've been just as sought after as Blanchfield (Goulding, Ogilvy, Jawai, Khazzouh, Penney perhaps depending on the length of the deal). You'd expect this would push Blanchfield back down the pecking order a little bit, yes? Sure he's 24 but those guys all did more than Blanchfield in their previous NBL stints, several of them *a lot* more. And none are old except Penney.

With a salary cap of 1 mil, or 850+ marquee, Blanchfield isn't worth anything like 200k based on what he's produced so far this season. Since the first two games he's been solid but not spectacular.

In fact I would've thought Jawai, Ogilvy, Goulding, Khazzouh would demand more $$$ than Blanchfield.

Penney probably less (if a 2 year deal) but only because of his age.

And with the general issues of Europe bringing more quality imports our way and increasing the standard of the league- this would also negatively impact Blanchfield's relative value. 2nd team Last season won't be equivalent to 2nd team this season

Not really, what you do after the deal has nothing to do with your market value in the off-season before you sign the deal!

Blanchfield was a standout last year and would have been in demand. The only other highly sought after wing player on the market was Goulding from what I can recall, and I'm not sure any team was ever going to be able to match Melbourne in getting him.

What about Penney? Averaged 11ppg in Spain last season (Same as Goulding!)

And Lisch declared his availability in June too. Yes, he's an import but he's a proven NBL player and a proven long time professional (Unlike Holt, Thornton, Prather, etc). And someone who wants a long term home in Australia- possible naturalisation down the track?

Yes you're right about the value being determined by prior performance and by speculation about future performance (potential, age). But same applies in reverse to Holt and Majok- neither had spectacular numbers last year- both have done better than I would've predicted based on prior performance. So perhaps they aren't being paid as much as people are saying? And as I mentioned previously Iggy, Hill, Patton would be on very modest money by NBL standards I'd expect.

Actually, correction- Goulding only averaged 8.5ppg in Spain last yr but more in Eurocup

So Penney had more impressive numbers.

I think you can create a reasonable scenario where Melbourne is under the cap.

Reality is they are probably over, like Perth and NZ would probably be over too and potentially other teams as well. But I don't think Melbourne would be be *far* over. I doubt any of these guys would be on *significantly* more than these figures:

Marquee: Kickert 200

Goulding 200
Blanchfield 140
Warrick 120
Holt 120
Majok 75
Tomlinson 65
Iggy 50
Hill 40
Patton 40

Total non marquee: 850

"What about Penney?"

I don't think a 34-year-old who wasn't really on the market was really competing with Blanchfield for $$.

I think you're dreaming LV. It's pretty well known the arms race started up in earnest last year and hasn't abated at all this season.

I don't think it's a bad thing if the league can generate revenue to match it, but if not we'll just end back again in the disaster zone that was 08-09.

What I would expect is that those guys would be getting paid those amounts, but a few of them might be getting some extra sweeteners on the side, marketing deals, non cash perks and so on.

How those sweeteners fit and what the rules are on those with regards to the salary cap I'm not sure.

Well they might be getting paid those amounts and then some extra, and then some sweeteners too

But this is basketball we're talking about. United got average crowds last year. Kestleman has cash but is a businessman too

I doubt any NBL team- inc Melb, Perth, NZ would be too far over. A bit, yes, not not ridiculously so

So if I'm dreaming paul- which one of those players would be getting significantly more than the figure I listed? And what would their MV be?

There are strong rumours floating around that Townsville is well under the cap.

isaac- actually There are other possibilities that would not surprise me.

In terms of cash flow, is Townsville even up to date on their regular expenses, wages etc? With the crowds they're getting and the alleged lack of sponsor dollars it's hard to see what's propping them up financially.

(So maybe Blanchfield wasn't really "poached" as much as maybe he just went somewhere where he was 100% confident he'd actually get paid, ala Barlow's comments about players leaving Europe)

LV, my guess would be you've gone unders on Goulding, Warrick and Blanchfield at the very least. There's smoke and fire around the industry that the top teams aren't under the salary cap, Boti Nagy didn't write the article on a whim.

"With the crowds they're getting and the alleged lack of sponsor dollars it's hard to see what's propping them up financially."

LK, I would suggest.

Kickert was marquee last year and signed a multi year deal, so could still be marquee.

Yeah I agree paul, I think at least 3 teams would probably be over but I don't think any of them would be more than, say 20% over at absolute most. (Just total speculation there of course, but people who are saying the top teams are obviously way over are speculating too and I’d argue there’s less reasonable basis or probabilities behind that speculation!)

Which boti article are you referring to?

This one:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/basketball/nbls-1-million-salary-cap-keeps-it-fair-and-square-for-all-nudge-nudge-wink-wink-writes-boti-nagy/story-fnii09ki-1227603365231

paul- as good as Goulding's been this season, he didn't set the world alight in Spain last season. Averaged 8.6 ppg on a middle of the road team. And 11ppg in the Eurocup. I think he's improved a little bit in ball handling and D since 2014 but he's still not achieved a great deal internationally- either in top Europe competition or for the Boomers.

From what Barlow has suggested and other stuff I've read, you need to be on a Euroleague team to be getting real top dollar in Europe- especially in current conditions.

And with the relatively modest numbers Goulding put up last year, was any Euroleague team ever likely to use an import spot on him this year?

Thanks for the link

Also important to note that due to Australia's privacy regulation it's actually illegal for employers to disclose an individual's salary info. Which is why (unlike the NBA) contract amounts are very very rarely announced, published or confirmed.

Pretty sure the taipans salary cap spend in announced at the AGM.

LV, Goulding isn't an import in Europe, he has a European passport.

He had some big games against some of the best teams in Spain (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Malaga, Vitoria). There would definitely have been demand for a local who can produce against that sort of quality.

Given the Aussie dollar is worth about 0.66 Euro his value would have been very high by Australian standards.

We were lucky with the high Aussie dollar the past couple of seasons, hence why the quality of players rose over that period, but those favourable exchange rates appear over for now.

Double Tomlinson's wage and you are about right

Goulding had a Euro buy out

Warwick isn't playing for 120k

You are under on Blanchfield

Oh I didn't realise he had a passport.

That does make a huge difference.

The Aussie has dropped a bit but at the highest point it was around 0.85 Euro's I believe. And it didn't get there for long. I'm glad it hasn't dived against the euro like it has against USD!!

Double Tomlinson's wage? Which sane owner would pay 130k for him!?!?

Melbourne's

The problem is that it's all just speculation.

Kevin Lisch is an interesting example: With his Italian Mother he was able to play in Europe as a local. So how much would he have earned? Even if we accept it was big coin, his wife (and children) are Australian, so there's a huge chance he took a massive pay-cut to move back to Australia.
These guys are professionals, but there's also more to it than money.
Even in my profession, I could make a lot more money if I was prepared to move my family to PNG or Ghana.

I'm not saying that teams aren't over, just that it's speculation either way.