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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago

#38484

Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Ridiculous.



(Mod: Video added.)

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koberulz
Two years ago
17:55 16 Nov 15

Reply #564757

re: Jawai reported

That's definitely one of the words to come to mind...

Can see Jawai being found guilty and Conklin not, though. Given how the tribunal seems to function...


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KingJames
Two years ago
18:03 16 Nov 15

Reply #564761

re: Jawai reported

Any video of it?


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Yolo
Two years ago
18:32 16 Nov 15

Reply #564770

re: Jawai reported

Surprised but not surprised. Jawai missed the ball by some margin


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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:32 16 Nov 15

Reply #564771

re: Jawai reported

For what


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Yolo
Two years ago
18:34 16 Nov 15

Reply #564772

re: Jawai reported

Jawai went to block Abercrombie and missed the ball but managed to whack TA pretty hard.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
18:35 16 Nov 15

Reply #564774

re: Jawai reported

The fact that its been established he was going for the ball is what sets it apart from either Conklin incident, and makes the report laughable.


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Yolo
Two years ago
18:37 16 Nov 15

Reply #564775

re: Jawai reported

So you know 100% he was going for the ball? Didn't really look like it at the time


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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:47 16 Nov 15

Reply #564777

re: Jawai reported

It looked as clear as day at the time that he was going for the ball. Even the very one-eyed NZ commentators said as much.

Was it clumsy/reckless? Yes. Does it deserve to be reported? No.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
18:48 16 Nov 15

Reply #564778

re: Jawai reported

Looked like a legit attempt to me at the time. From memory one angle made it look pretty bad, but the other didn't. I'll post up a clip.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
19:11 16 Nov 15

Reply #564782

re: Jawai reported

Here's a clip of the incident


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Kobe24
Two years ago
19:17 16 Nov 15

Reply #564784

re: Jawai reported

First time Ive seen it, pretty poor attempt at a block shot. No one is annoyed he didn't check on Abercrombie, yet everyone got on Conlkin for walking away from Martin.... smh

Wont get any games for that, but again really pathetic effort at defending the drive.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
19:26 16 Nov 15

Reply #564786

re: Jawai reported

NBL motto is hardball unless Nate Jawai is involved.

Most his block are of the same kind. Round arm windup. If you see it from a certain angle. Its a clear block attempt at the ball. If you look at it from another camera angle it look hes foigogoing for the ball but then the head.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
19:29 16 Nov 15

Reply #564787

re: Jawai reported

Sorry bout typos and jus noticed someone else noticed the 2 camera angles.


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snooch
Two years ago
19:33 16 Nov 15

Reply #564788

re: Jawai reported

Chalmers Boti said Conklin should have been charged for the first one.


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fstos
Two years ago
19:44 16 Nov 15

Reply #564790

re: Jawai reported

He was charged


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Mambo #5
Two years ago
19:50 16 Nov 15

Reply #564792

re: Jawai reported

Refs doing their best to referee Jawai out of the game...now the NBL has jumped on the bandwagon with this pathetic report....c'mon!!


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FYI
Two years ago
19:50 16 Nov 15

Reply #564793

re: Jawai reported

For a guy who blocks shots for a living missing the ball by about a metre isn't a good look for Nate


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Kobe24
Two years ago
19:55 16 Nov 15

Reply #564795

re: Jawai reported

FYI I'm with you on that one. Was almost too clumsy for someone with his ability. Has to atleast be looked at but surely nothing comes of it. Jesus WA would have a shit fit if he missed a game!


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KingJames
Two years ago
19:56 16 Nov 15

Reply #564796

re: Jawai reported

"No one is annoyed he didn't check on Abercrombie, yet everyone got on Conlkin for walking away from Martin.... smh" Totally agree Kobe24!


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Luuuc
Two years ago
20:03 16 Nov 15

Reply #564798

re: Jawai reported

I cut it to keep the clip short, but Nate did go over to Abercrombie just after he got back to his feet and gave him a tap.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:15 16 Nov 15

Reply #564799

re: Jawai reported

Id like to see how sincere he was with it... Conklin copped a huge amount of grief from Perth fans for his lack of sympathy. Just seems a bit weird, TC was down for a fair while and Jawai got nowhere near him. Dont care a heap just commenting on the potential double standard from the Perth posts from the previous Martin thread.


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The Captain
Two years ago
20:15 16 Nov 15

Reply #564800

re: Jawai reported

Just looked at it, I'm sorry but Jawai has to go. That was deliberate and hard. He needs to be suspended for that - he could have done some serious damage.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:20 16 Nov 15

Reply #564803

re: Jawai reported

Cant see it happening, BUT guess the one difference compared to the Conklin ones, is that Jawai was facing Abercrombie and knew where his head was.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:33 16 Nov 15

Reply #564806

re: Jawai reported

Here's a more complete clip
https://youtu.be/mMgcfctMQko


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:36 16 Nov 15

Reply #564809

re: Jawai reported

Not double standard. Standard was set when Conklin got off from the nbl with no penalty.

They raised bar. Hard head contact on a block attempt seems mild in comparison.

If jawai gets a suspension from this report. Surely it would set a new standard on block attempts and defending in the nbl. We might as well expect a suspension every game since it happens all the time.


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Yolo
Two years ago
20:40 16 Nov 15

Reply #564810

re: Jawai reported

People have their heads ripped off every game do they - hyperbole much


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Luuuc
Two years ago
20:43 16 Nov 15

Reply #564811

re: Jawai reported

Personally I don't feel like that is suspension-worthy.
No intent to do anything but swat the ball. I've done the same thing in a game, though mine was more a glancing blow to the head, but not an ounce of ill-intent on my part, so I sympathise with Nate on this one.

One thing that all these head-high incidents should do is prompt the league to clarify their stance on this, and perhaps introduce a new category of penalty for acts like this that are accidental, but careless in nature and injury-causing.

I would whistle this particular one as an unsportsmanlike foul for excessive contact and leave it at that, but I can see why other people want more.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:46 16 Nov 15

Reply #564813

re: Jawai reported

Oh ok so yeah Jawai showed Abercrombie all kinds of love afterwards haha

He didn't give a care in the world, was busy arguing with the ref about what I dont know, when Abercrombie could've been laying unconscious under the hoop. Such a double standard by the Perth fans who complained Conklin was an ice cold jerk who didn't care about Martins welfare.

Definitely dont see him getting games for this, but again was a really really pathetic attempt at defense by him.


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Isaac
Two years ago
20:47 16 Nov 15

Reply #564815

re: Jawai reported

Not dissimilar to Conklin in that you could argue they're reckless but not intending harm.

But if you call for Conklin to play with more awareness of the outcome of his actions, you could do likewise with Jawai. It was a pretty sloppy block attempt.

#hardball is going to look like a reckless hashtag before long.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:47 16 Nov 15

Reply #564816

re: Jawai reported

Luuuc totally agree with your middle paragraph, its up to the league to make it black and white. And it is a truly important issue, last thing the league needs is a tragic occurrence because the big boys have no leash!


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:48 16 Nov 15

Reply #564817

re: Jawai reported

Awkwardly appropriate hashtag!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:53 16 Nov 15

Reply #564818

re: Jawai reported

Head contact on block attempts does happen in basketball. Its part of the game. You get rewarded with freethrows

"People having their heads ripped off" is hyperbole.







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Yolo
Two years ago
20:57 16 Nov 15

Reply #564819

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Just use your normal name instead of hiding behind anon posts charmers


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:00 16 Nov 15

Reply #564820

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

The difference is that Jawai made an attempt at the ball and missed. Conklin made an attempt at contact with the player and connected. Jawai's was accidental but should have been called USF, Conklins was reckless and should have seen him suspended (the first one on Martin).


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:00 16 Nov 15

Reply #564821

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

What does it matter matter who i am. Discuss the topic.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:01 16 Nov 15

Reply #564822

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

What? Which posts are you incorrectly attributing to me?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:02 16 Nov 15

Reply #564823

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

agree. It deserved an unsportmanlike.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:03 16 Nov 15

Reply #564824

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

in the NBA they would have reviewed it and ejected him.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:03 16 Nov 15

Reply #564825

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Chalmers, was referring to yolo


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Kobe24
Two years ago
21:05 16 Nov 15

Reply #564826

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I think that particular swipe at the ball or head was pretty reckless, but all these plays currently in the limelight are nothing more than grey area plays i reckon. They will keep happening until the NBL makes it very clear on what can and cannot occur. Conklin wasnt facing either of the guys he hit, but Jawai was, so its all a bit dodgy.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:06 16 Nov 15

Reply #564827

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I don't know what he is on about.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:07 16 Nov 15

Reply #564830

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Does getting hit with a leg of lamb hurt? It has never happened to me...

Also, attempting a block can often go wrong. Its usually on the fast break although Jawai just probably forgot he is 150Kgs for a split second and thought he could get the ball.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:07 16 Nov 15

Reply #564831

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Ok, I can see how a massive swipe at the ball and missing is reckless. If you take a swipe and miss, that's on you. Fair point.

I consider Conklins to be worse/more reckless because he was all about making contact with his opponents and he got them both in the face.


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Late Contact
Two years ago
21:12 16 Nov 15

Reply #564834

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Love how the NZ commentator says "thats like being hit with a leg of lamb" and that's how we roll when we go on a mob bashing, no baseball bats here just frozen legs of lamb.....

Poor Nate way to late


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:15 16 Nov 15

Reply #564836

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Kobe24 and his Perth hate lol


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:20 16 Nov 15

Reply #564837

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

So what happened to the protect the head cries after martins incident?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:23 16 Nov 15

Reply #564839

re: Jawai reported

It did look pretty bad IMO


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Kobe24
Two years ago
21:27 16 Nov 15

Reply #564842

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Im not hating just call it like I see it... Im saying Jawai will get off but that its a really clumsy attempt at defense 'lol'.


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Bear
Two years ago
21:43 16 Nov 15

Reply #564845

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I am baffled at the debate to be honest. Even in the AFL, probably the NRL (both very tough games), both Jawai and Conklin would be reported and suspended.

But the NBL and it appears some of us, somehow can't see that these types of reckless acts need to be stamped out.

We can't condone players swinging elbows or arms or fists at other player's heads, period!

It matters not one little bit whether anyone thinks it is deliberate, malicious or accidental, it has occurred for a reason and the result is an injury, serious injury or risk of serious injury.

That is a reckless act and there is no further correspondence necessary, just a penalty to clean up the game...

#STUPIDBALL


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AngusH
Two years ago
21:52 16 Nov 15

Reply #564849

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Kills me to defend a Wildcat, but this deserved an unsportsmanlike and that's about it. It was a bit reckless, but he was making a (late-ish) play at the ball. Abercrombie's gash on the arm when he hit the court is probably what's causing people to over-react.


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Sirjump
Two years ago
22:19 16 Nov 15

Reply #564851

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Jawai may not have had any ill intent, but his intent shouldn't matter too much when head high contact is involved.

He was clearly *so* late on the attempt it was reckless, IMHO. You can get done in the AFL for a late spoil that connects with the head, so why not the NBL? NBL needs to protect the player with the ball driving to the basket. If Jawai had blocked the shot and made the same level of contact with the head it's obviously a different story, but that's not what happened here.


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Hoopster
Two years ago
22:33 16 Nov 15

Reply #564855

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

No broken jaw... No case to answer for !!


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Greggo
Two years ago
23:42 16 Nov 15

Reply #564863

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Pretty reckless and careless...


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:43 16 Nov 15

Reply #564864

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Agree Bear


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Luuuc
Two years ago
00:15 17 Nov 15

Reply #564867

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

The above AFL claims are simply wrong.
There's a pretty comparison with this and AFL actually, because genuine spoil attempts that collect head are either let go, are a free kick, or at very worst are a 50m penalty if they are deemed "making him earn it". Only if they are blatantly late, like Lewis on Goldstein, do they end up with suspensions. And that is not when it is a genuine footy play gone wrong/misjudged, that's when it is move that is clearly outside the rules.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
00:30 17 Nov 15

Reply #564870

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Anyone comparing this to Martins Crocjaw is foolish, the severity alone couldn't possibly lead a rational person (i'm probably on the wrong forum to find many) to conclude that Nate should be suspended and Conklin free to play. Why was Nate charged with striking and unsportsmanlike conduct? pretty sure Conklin should have been suspended for unsportsmanlike conduct but hey, repeat offender!!

Guy made a play on the ball, he missed, if the refs did not see fit to deal with it further at the time then it need not be reviewed, or is the scratch to an elbow worthy of a tribunal now??

If Nate goes for that then the league and those making the decisions needs to disappear because it is clearly corrupt.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
01:50 17 Nov 15

Reply #564873

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

If he gets suspended for that then wow...


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koberulz
Two years ago
02:00 17 Nov 15

Reply #564874

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

You can see on the sideline angle that Abercrombie brings the ball up in one spot, and then moves it while in mid-air. Jawai's hand swipes through pretty much exactly where the ball would have been if Abercrombie hadn't moved it.


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BMF
Two years ago
03:26 17 Nov 15

Reply #564876

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Why doesnt the NBL adopt a flagrant foul system with points and once you xceed you get games similar to the NBA's system.


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Mystro
Two years ago
04:01 17 Nov 15

Reply #564877

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Give him a warning and move on. Could have been very serious but luckily it wasn't.
He made a play at the ball but ended up with a ton of head while the player was well in the air making him extremely vulnerable. If Abercrombie had landed differently his season may have been over.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
06:59 17 Nov 15

Reply #564880

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

It wasnt serious. So give him a warning. What a joke.


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Dave W
Two years ago
10:18 17 Nov 15

Reply #564893

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Not sure what koberulz point is. Abercrombie's fault because he moved the ball?
It should have been called unsportsmanlike at the time and that should have been the end of it.
Agree with BMF re flagrant foul system.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
10:20 17 Nov 15

Reply #564894

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

He's not saying its his fault, he is saying that the movement of the ball led to Jawai missing it completely.


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Bear
Two years ago
11:54 17 Nov 15

Reply #564901

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I must be watching the wrong video, yes the ball moves just like it always does, yet people don't get smacked in the side of their head every time someone tries to get a block!

Protect the shooter...


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
12:13 17 Nov 15

Reply #564903

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

No, that is the same video. No one is denying it was a crude foul and that he hit him high. The difference between this and other incidents is that he was making a play for the ball, and missed. Conklin was making a play for the man both times, and connected.

To be honest, I don't think the AFL should be the benchmark for all tribunal findings as they get things horribly wrong every other week. They also have to consider the speed at which their game is played, which makes the risk of serious injury from head high contact more significant.


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Bear
Two years ago
12:27 17 Nov 15

Reply #564906

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

You're saying he made a play at the ball, that is in fact inconclusive...


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Bear
Two years ago
12:29 17 Nov 15

Reply #564907

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Actually, I will go a step further and suggest it is also irrelevant.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:41 17 Nov 15

Reply #564908

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I hate the cats with the best of them but pretty obvious play at the ball surely


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
12:42 17 Nov 15

Reply #564909

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Why is it irrelevant? If the job of the tribunal is to find out if the play was intentional, reckless/negligent, or accidental, its entirely relevant. Its also going to be Jawai's defence, you'd assume.

You want all head high contact banned no matter the circumstance? I don't agree with that.

If you think that he wasn't making a play at the ball, thats fine. People are just showing why they think it was.


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Bear
Two years ago
12:50 17 Nov 15

Reply #564915

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

The intent of the player determines whether the act may be considered intentional or not.

If it is not deemed intentional then it is likely to fall into one of two categories (or perhaps both), that is the act is deemed reckless or accidental.

The indisputable facts must then be considered along with the risk and code of conduct that protects the health and well being of the players and the future reputation of the game.

Let us list the basic facts in this incident:

1. A player with the ball is exposed and going to the basket to make a legitimate scoring attempt.

2. A defending opposition player is out of position, behind the player with the ball and moves towards that player.

3. The defending player swings his arm from behind and connects with the offensive player's head with significant force, knocking him to the floor.

4. The offensive player has been placed at risk of injury and has in fact suffered some type of trauma to the head; I believe this isn’t within the rules at all and it is the force of the swing that makes it reckless and unreasonable, not accidental in this case.

So, these facts I consider as indisputable, whatever you would like to bring to the table or whatever is said about the player’s intent is disputable and also irrelevant because in the case of the act and results of the actions presented a decision can be made based on recklessness.

What remains is whether or not the presiding organisation (NBL in this case) wants to stamp out this type of incident, or condone it.

You see, their whole season has been labelled 'HARDBALL’ so they have already painted themselves into a corner to some extent and I for one have never liked it, since they initiated this concept for promotion it seems they are less likely to prevent these actions.

Just my opinion, based on some facts...


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PeterJohn
Two years ago
12:56 17 Nov 15

Reply #564916

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

FIBA rule 33.13: Illegal guarding from the rear

"Illegal guarding from the rear is personal contact with an opponent, by a defensive player, from behind. The fact that the defensive player is attempting to play the ball does not justify his contact with an opponent from the rear."

In this case, this rule suggests going for the ball will not be an acceptable defence.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
13:02 17 Nov 15

Reply #564918

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

"The intent of the player determines whether the act may be considered intentional or not."

Thats exactly my point! If the tribunal determines his actions were intentional, he could and should be looking at a long stint on the sidelines. If they consider it reckless, his penalty is going to be less.

"If it is not deemed intentional..."

So you're expecting the tribunal to make a determination on his intent, possibly finding it reckless (if not deemed intentional), but when someone points to some evidence that shows that there may not have been any deliberate intent, you want to dismiss it. I don't think you've thought that through.

You've used the AFL example as one which shows how a system works well. Don't they determine whether a play was intentional, negligent and/or reckless, and punish someone accordingly (along with the type and location of impact)?


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
13:04 17 Nov 15

Reply #564920

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

PeterJohn, surely that is not relevant to reportable offences? He was called for a foul under that rule and no one is denying it was a foul.


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Bear
Two years ago
13:08 17 Nov 15

Reply #564921

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

So, Chalmers, you would be happy for someone to commit 5 fouls like that in a game would you?


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
13:10 17 Nov 15

Reply #564922

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I've never suggesting anything like that.


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Bear
Two years ago
13:11 17 Nov 15

Reply #564923

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Yes, or no?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:15 17 Nov 15

Reply #564925

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

this is really getting silly now. there is a huge difference between not being "happy" to see a particular thing happen 5 times in a single game and believing that a player should be suspended for a single instance of that thing. I don't like seeing moving screens but that doesn't mean I want to see players miss games if they set one.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
13:15 17 Nov 15

Reply #564927

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

What a pointless question.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:16 17 Nov 15

Reply #564928

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

perhaps we should ban shot block attempts from basketball since sometimes they result in fouls


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Bear
Two years ago
13:17 17 Nov 15

Reply #564929

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Facepalm...


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:18 17 Nov 15

Reply #564930

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

facepalm was exactly my response to your silly question above


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Bear
Two years ago
13:29 17 Nov 15

Reply #564934

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Fine, I will rephrase it then, just for you guys.

Have a look at the image presented in anon's post #908.

You may agree it appears Jawai is making a play at the ball, in that split second of time to some people it may look like he is.

Now have a think about a player's ability and the choice that player has to make in a split second of time.

It is quite realistic to presume Jawai is going to make a play on the ball in the first instance, then realises he isn't quite going to get there and in any case his arm is in a swinging motion so he has a choice to make (maybe he has already done so)!

Now, what happens next is determined by his actions, no one else.

He either lifts his arm slightly and avoids contact with the head of his opponent, or he carelessly swings downwards and risks serious injury to him. The impact and severity of this action is all on him.

The action and the result of the action speaks for itself, no need to ask Jawai what his intent is, what else do you think he is going to say...

Therefore his intent is irrelevant, his action is always going to be determined as reckless. It may not be proven intentional, it may not even be proven accidental, however I believe I have proven it to be reckless according to the facts.

Cheers...


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Luuuc
Two years ago
13:44 17 Nov 15

Reply #564940

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

This feels like it has already been done to death, but there is no decision to be made mid-way through a swing like that. You don't just take a swipe at the ball and then within one tv frame of missing it, decide to make an adjustment and complete the swing of your hefty and fast-moving arm in a completely different direction. Come on, man.
If you want to argue that it was a reckless play then I don't think you're going to get too much argument, but this thing of breaking things down into nanoseconds and disobeying laws of physics is a bit much.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:48 17 Nov 15

Reply #564944

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Watch some NFL and see how they break it down in slow motion, frame by frame segments. Players can avoid unnecessary contact if they want to.


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PeterJohn
Two years ago
14:36 17 Nov 15

Reply #564952

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Chalmers - the rule defines a principle - contact from behind is not acceptable. To get consistency in tribunal decisions, you need clear principles to apply.

I think embracing the principles embodied in the existing rules is a good way to go about it. If going for the ball is no excuse for hitting another player from behind and "Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball" is reason to award an unsportsmanlike foul (FIBA rule 37.1.1), then they sound like reasonable benchmarks for assessing recklessness and consequences, for mine.

The player knew he shouldn't be trying to block from behind but did it anyway and the contact ended up being excessively hard. First half is the reckless bit and second half is the consequence.

If the tribunal sees it that way and awards a penalty, it would set a clear precedent for assessing similar situations in the future. Players would know exactly where they stand.

It would also help we fans and journalists, who have no idea how the tribunal makes these decisions.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
14:45 17 Nov 15

Reply #564955

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I'm not disagreeing with the rule or the principle. I just don't think grabbing a specific rule and applying it to another area (as similar as they are) is correct.


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koberulz
Two years ago
14:48 17 Nov 15

Reply #564956

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

You're reading the section on fouls, you idiot.

ALL that says is that if someone makes contact from behind, it's a foul whether or not they're going for the ball, which is absolutely nothing to do with tribunals or suspensions or anything else going on in this thread.


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koberulz
Two years ago
14:49 17 Nov 15

Reply #564957

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

The very next rule says "Holding is illegal personal contact with an opponent that interferes with his freedom of movement. This contact (holding) can occur with any part of the body."


Therefore, clearly all instances of holding should be suspensions. Obviously. Because apparently the answer to 'should it be a foul?' and 'should the player be suspended' are EXACTLY THE SAME.


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koberulz
Two years ago
14:49 17 Nov 15

Reply #564958

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

(I'm responding to PeterJohn, Chalmers posted while I was typing)


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:13 17 Nov 15

Reply #564961

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

What is wrong with you people?? What do you actually enjoy in basketball? I like Dunks and Blocks! Martin and Creek were according to the prophets on here in the wrong spot, playing for a steal and shouldn't have been there. Well news flash Most breakaway dunks ( those things that get us all out of our seats) arise from cheeky steals. So if you want exciting plays you need to be clever and cheeky to get a steal cause last time i checked teams don't simply hand the ball over for a breakaway dunk.

Blocks, if you penalise a guy for attempting a block guess what kind of defence we will see?? standing up straight never actually doing anything, wow thats exciting isn't it??? Have any of you actually played basketball?? when you attempt a block or steal you don't do it in slow motion so the player in possession of the ball sees it coming and adjusts, it is done quickly, so you a) get the ball before they move it, b) the ref doesn't see the fact you missed cause you were so fast!!!

Using the reasoning on this forum you a) shouldn't try and steal the ball from the weak side, and if you do you can be laid out cold and its your own fault. Making a play on the ball is worthy of a penalty if you miss and not something to be encouraged.

maybe this is how netball was created? a sport where you have to move away from the person you are defending and you can't hit the ball out of their hands if they are dumb enough to dangle it right in front of you.

While i am ranting, if the league is as fed up as all of us with all the flopping and extra curricular that goes on of the ball maybe they should ignore it!.

I notice people love to pick on the niggle master Redhage ( bias cause he aint the only one, Wortho has to be the dirtiest in the league but the fact he spurned the cats obviously gets him a free pass to you lot). Redhage plays the referees desire to focus on of ball play better than anyone in the league, you actually need to tip your hat to just how well he plays that part of the game. Oh and btw it is a part of the game of basketball.

Why is he and others like wortho, Goulding and more get into all this rubbish off the ball. Because the referees insist on focusing on calling it. Nothing annoys me more than watching Beal drive to the hoop and not get a simple blocking call when attacking the basket, a play most of us like to see and should be encouraged meanwhile a flail of the arms of camera and boom foul called...

referees are able to dictate the way the game is played and encourage certain behaviours and discourage others by the way they ref. NBA is the best example. do you ever see a charge called in a 1 on 1 situation?? no they penalise the player trying to take a bullshit charge by jumping infornt of a guy about to throw down. Why don't they reward that type of defensive play? because fans like dunks!!!! fans don't like stupid charge calls.

the way decisions are currently been made, its basketball that is dying!!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:41 17 Nov 15

Reply #564980

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

It's excessive force to the head, simple.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:42 17 Nov 15

Reply #564981

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

As you said Kobe24 you only saw a clip, not the whole incident. And yes Jawai went over and checked on him. Typical perth hating by you...


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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:43 17 Nov 15

Reply #564982

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Kobe24 big time perth hating lol


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Wwizard
Two years ago
19:50 17 Nov 15

Reply #564986

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

one game....simple as that.
i know the cats seem to think its ok to play thug, but lets get this straight, the slo-mo in pause shows nate's hand almost touching the right hand of TA. look at the ball and arms apart.
clearly another moment of thug from the cats.
**if someone is destroying them, hey why not hard foul them**


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Kobe24
Two years ago
20:01 17 Nov 15

Reply #564987

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I saw the extended clip, pretty ordinary display of care factor from Jawai. The point still stands how every Perth fan got so angry Conklin didn't make any effort to check on Martin, good ol fashion double standard. And yes I hate Perth, I loathe them, but every fan needs a team they hate so I guess I secretly love them. But my feelings on the team has nothing to do with it this observation. No way he gets suspended, purely because the Cats would have a case for the Conklin thing. NBL need to make this stuff black and white as mentioned.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
20:13 17 Nov 15

Reply #564988

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Can we all stop looking at slo-mo and freeze frames to determine someone's guilt? If you can determine something in real time then how can you expect someone else to be making a split second decision to not do something?


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
20:14 17 Nov 15

Reply #564989

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

*cant determine.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:15 17 Nov 15

Reply #564990

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Jawai shaking hands after the game could be considered excessive force to the hand.
He can't play hoops and and be scared of making any contact with other players like the big guy from the Green Mile movie.


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Wildcats80
Two years ago
20:30 17 Nov 15

Reply #564991

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Found guilty of misconduct not guilty of striking. $1000 confirmed


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Wildcats80
Two years ago
20:32 17 Nov 15

Reply #564992

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Lachy Reid reporting it only came about after a complaint by NZ. That's a bit rich.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
20:32 17 Nov 15

Reply #564993

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

NBL press release said he was found guilty of striking.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
20:58 17 Nov 15

Reply #565000

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Wildcats80, the Breakers have every right to make a complaint. Just like Gleeson demanded the Martin incident be reviewed.

I think it's another one in the long line of NBL incidents where a tribunal punishment is used to make up for the refs not making the right call. Should have been USF when it happened.


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koberulz
Two years ago
21:28 17 Nov 15

Reply #565011

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Honestly, I'm okay with a fine, if they're going to crack down on head-high contact. I'm not really okay with it being considered 'striking' or the tribunal finding there was no legitimate attempt to play the ball, though.


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paul
Two years ago
21:33 17 Nov 15

Reply #565014

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I don't think he was trying to play the ball, I think he was trying to foul to stop the basket and got it very wrong. Agree a fine is OK but as long as it's consistent, which little seems to be over the years with this tribunal.


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koberulz
Two years ago
21:37 17 Nov 15

Reply #565015

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

What evidence is there that he was trying to foul? His hand goes right through where Abercrombie was originally going to bring the ball up. It's not like he doesn't normally make giant swiping motions when blocking shots, either.


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paul
Two years ago
21:43 17 Nov 15

Reply #565019

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

For me, the facts that he was a long way from the ball, both north-south and east-west, and swinging hard. You could argue that just shows a very bad error in judgement, and that's possible, but I personally think he was trying to put Abercrombie to the free throw line.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:45 17 Nov 15

Reply #565020

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Via the floor.


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koberulz
Two years ago
21:46 17 Nov 15

Reply #565021

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

If he was trying to foul, I'd expect a more vertical arm movement. As it was he barely touched Abercrombie at all, so if it was an attempt to foul it was a poor one.

He gets as far from the ball as he does because Abercrombie adjusts to Jawai's initial ballward movement.


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paul
Two years ago
21:48 17 Nov 15

Reply #565023

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I disagree, Abercrombie was elevating past him at speed so the only way to foul was via a horizontal arm movement.


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koberulz
Two years ago
22:09 17 Nov 15

Reply #565028

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

That makes no sense. A horizontal swipe like that risks going clean over his head and doing nothing. If I were in Jawai's position and trying to foul, I'd be coming across trying to pin Abercrombie's left elbow to his left hip. That way I'm coming down and across and am a much higher chance of actually collecting him.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
22:16 17 Nov 15

Reply #565030

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

He took a massive slow swipe at the ball. If he wanted to put him on his arse he could have made more deliberate contact to his body, or come down on top of him with one or two arms. I think you're giving Jawai far too much credit for intentionally fouling but disguising it well enough so that a majority of people don't think it was deliberate, including the ref standing right in front of him.


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paul
Two years ago
22:18 17 Nov 15

Reply #565032

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I think he wanted to go over his head and get his arms. By swinging horizontally he had further reach towards the arms, his body wasn't heading in the direction Abercrombie was going so a vertical swipe would have been less likely to prevent a basket. That's what I think he was trying to do.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
01:19 18 Nov 15

Reply #565052

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I feel like I'm watching a completely different incident to paul. There are much easier ways to foul and make it very unlikely for the layup to go in than to do what Jawai did. Just chop down on the arms.
There's no question whatsoever in my mind that he was going for the block.
I'm fine with it being argued that he misjudged or that his attempt was reckless, but questioning what he was trying to do just zero basis from what I can see there and from my experience playing.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
04:53 18 Nov 15

Reply #565058

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

I saw it as frustration disguised to look like some sort of attempt at a block.

(I'm a Perth supporter)


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:02 18 Nov 15

Reply #565136

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Frustration at what exactly? doesn't make sense in the context of the game at that specific time...


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paul
Two years ago
12:22 18 Nov 15

Reply #565151

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

"Just chop down on the arms."

You are watching a different incident. Jawai couldn't chop down on the arms because they were too far in front of him and going in a different direction to him.


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paul
Two years ago
12:33 18 Nov 15

Reply #565154

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

As I said earlier, it's certainly possible he was trying to block the shot and just got his timing horribly wrong. I personally think he realised he was out of position, tried to foul and got that horribly wrong.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:07 18 Nov 15

Reply #565168

re: Jawai reported after incident in NZ game

Experts batting zero.


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