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Bake
Last year

#38895

Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I hope Brad Giersch, Brett(the Panda) Hogan and Tim Brown do not accept full payment for their display tonight. If they do there would be grounds for charges to be laid for taking money under false pretences. They allowed Illawarra to scrag, hit and do anything they liked to Randle, which ultimately resulted in what could be a season ending injury.

Tim Brown at one time told Randle to walk away from Weeks while he was being continually man handled. While if anyone looked cross eyed at Kevin Lisch they were called for fouls.

You could not level the inconsistent argument against these three blind mice as they displayed an unabashed bias the whole night. Don't be fooled by the foul count stats, if the game had been called even remotely fairly Illawarra would have been down at least three players by half time.

It is my greatest hope is that these three refs do not officiate in anymore games this season let alone Sixer games.

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FM
Last year
23:34 30 Jan 16

Reply #575417

re: Substandard

Brett Hogan should be given another chance, he actually talks and manages the game well. How can he possible no what to call when he is trying to be consistent amongst the other two.

Giersch is the worst referee in Australia. He has zero feel for the game. You don't have a retired dud in Davidson making crap contact with DJ and then ping DJ for the foul (Tim Brown). The call was shocking however for Giersch to then want to step in and talk about it? WTF was that about, DJ wants to be on the floor and needs to be, Hawks are struggling when Davidson is on the floor, so the faster the refs get duds out of the game, the better the game will flo.

Feel for the game would have had the 3 of them talking before the game. We can't have half baked players holding onto the superstars, we need to police that early. if clearly wasn't in the pre game because in Adelaides first second and third inbound of the ball, Tim spoke but called nothing. Hence the problem got worse the whole game.

Lisch can flat out play, but the guy needs to stop flopping and his dirty cheap shots don't have to be part of his game regardless that they are part of his coaches.


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koberulz
Last year
23:57 30 Jan 16

Reply #575419

re: Substandard

Making foul calls based on how good the players are is garbage.


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Quasi
Last year
07:35 31 Jan 16

Reply #575431

re: Substandard

Like White on Randle all game Thursday night then Saturday, but Sobey gets called when White smacks him in the face tussling on the inbounds??


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paul
Last year
07:48 31 Jan 16

Reply #575433

re: Substandard

"Lisch can flat out play, but the guy needs to stop flopping and his dirty cheap shots don't have to be part of his game."

That sentence hurts the credibility of everything else you're saying.


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Victorian wildcat
Last year
08:57 31 Jan 16

Reply #575438

re: Substandard

Blaming the ref for Randle's injury is just plain dumb, Randle initiated the contact changing his path into AJ, to draw a foul. Anyone thinking any different was watching a different game to me.


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Anonymous
Last year
08:58 31 Jan 16

Reply #575439

re: Substandard

How does White end the game with 1 foul. yes folks only 1. Hope Sixers take this to the top and push for a review. Disgraceful. Joey should have some credence as both Randle and Joey were complaining about the physical contact on Randle and the end result proved their point. That to me is neglect and failure to provide a safe work place despite a verbal complaint. Who is in charge of the players association now ? Is it still Norwoods favourite poach ?


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Isaac
Last year
09:11 31 Jan 16

Reply #575442

re: Substandard

Randle's knee hit Ogilvy's. Just unfortunate. Nothing to do with the refs.


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snooch
Last year
09:51 31 Jan 16

Reply #575446

re: Substandard

Not dirty and unfortunate but I still hate the play. Overly physical when he had no realistic chance of stopping the break.


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ChairmanOfTheBored
Last year
10:06 31 Jan 16

Reply #575448

re: Substandard

Some absolutely laughable calls all night. How about those 4 point plays? You're joking aren't you?! And interrupting the last play of a quarter (the longest freaking quarter I've ever seen) because you think the shot clock is wrong when it's actually showing remaining time for the quarter is terrible game awareness.


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AyJay
Last year
10:25 31 Jan 16

Reply #575451

re: Substandard

I only saw Lisch flop once, in the second half, he drove in towards the basket pushed our defender then fell backwards and got two shots. He wasn't even shooting. The replay looked clear. I think he was having a Perth moment.
I think he is too good to do that sort of thing.

Umpires. Two weren't too dreadful but one guy (don't know his name) was a moron. Call after call. No interest in consistency.

Creeks unsportsmanlike foul in the context of this game was very sporting since he held the player and protected him from injury. He could have gotten away with the same call and totally taken him out!


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Isaac
Last year
08:37 1 Feb 16

Reply #575538

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Bake, should 36ers players also rescind their paycheques when they have a bad game? Maybe we could use that to fund more referee training?


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MACDUB
Last year
09:27 1 Feb 16

Reply #575542

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Admittedly, I didn't see the game or the Randle-AJ foul for that matter.

But the sheer thought of blaming someone who committed a foul for being responsible for someone maybe tearing their ACL is ridiculous, unless the foul was an USF.

Was it an USF?


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MACDUB
Last year
09:31 1 Feb 16

Reply #575544

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

It's a bit like a Rugby player making a legal tackle, the guy with the ball breaking his ankle and the tackler coping the blame.

Sounds idiotic when you put it like that..


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Isaac
Last year
10:07 1 Feb 16

Reply #575548

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

MACDUB, not at all. The knee contact was hardly a foul from my one watch of the replay. Hopefully he's OK.


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Anonymous
Last year
11:19 1 Feb 16

Reply #575561

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Isaac you would say that given we are talking about the Hawks. Read the latest reviews from various sources who are now saying their was a knock and we could all see it. AJ should have left it. He was on the breakaway and he was never getting in front and arandle has right of way to change direction and it was minimal l, to position the basket. Lisch copped it later from Sobey to make a statement, wrong but proving a point at the harrassment on the running shooter and slashing crap this League allows comparative to other leagues. it is dangerous and needs addressing.


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Anonymous
Last year
11:24 1 Feb 16

Reply #575562

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

One miked up ref was heard on fox saying to Randle this is a mans game.. What the.. Sack him.. Unprofessional and inappropriate and leads to the attitude of said ref. IdiotZ


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Dazz
Last year
11:33 1 Feb 16

Reply #575564

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Didn't see the game in question, so can't comment specifically.
But, given NBL is a spectator sport, I do feel the league needs to act to make the reffing appear more consistent. No doubt there is some technical/ interpretive basis for why some apparently soft fouls are called and other blatant ones aren't, but I think everyone would benefit from more consistency including the players.


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MACDUB
Last year
14:11 1 Feb 16

Reply #575588

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

"Randle has right of way to change direction"

What? No one has a right of way on the court. This is basketball, not driving on the road.

I don't think a player should just stop and say "Oh sorry mate, you have the right of way, here go and score 2 points on me". If you can foul someone legally, then what happens to that person who is fouled is merely unfortunate.

Judging by the comments, I"m assuming it was 100 x worse than the Drake U'u one on Torey Craig a few years ago?

Refs all over the world say words to that effect. Sometimes it's what's needed to get the point to the player and put him in his place a bit (remind him whose calling the game)..especially when you consider what refs put up with (swearing, getting yelled out, arms waived etc.)


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XY
Last year
14:20 1 Feb 16

Reply #575594

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Macdub, there was nothing in it. Looked crude in real time, but that is because Randle is so quick everything he does is impossible to follow.

AJ was entitled to be where he was to challenge/block the shot, Randle was using his quicks to try and get a foul.

The fans complaining here are overreacting because of the physical nature of the game generally, which did have a thuggish element to it.


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Hoopie
Last year
14:22 1 Feb 16

Reply #575595

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I didn't see the game but I always thought that if a defender has established his direction and is beside or in front of the player with the ball, then if the attacker jumps into the defender then it's a charging foul.

Similarly, if the attacker is slightly ahead of the defender and jumps across or into the defender without giving the defender the chance to stop or avoid the contact, then it's a charge.

Have the rules changed?


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Bake
Last year
14:59 1 Feb 16

Reply #575612

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Isaac, not really relevant. Allowing one team to do what they like and calling it defence and calling soft fouls against the other team is either incompetence at best or a premeditated action that needs investigation.

I am not an orphan when it comes to criticising the officials in this game.

When a player is told to walk away from an opponent by a referee while being held and harassed, then being immediately harassed after complying with his instruction for no action is particularly galling. The phantom calls that sent Lisch to the line on numerous occasions, was another clear indication of bias displayed by these officials.

Without wanting to appear to be a suck hole but I though Oscar was extremely unlucky o be called for his last foul.

A cynical person may even suggest that could have already received supplement to their income


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Luuuc
Last year
15:36 1 Feb 16

Reply #575620

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

For those who missed the Randle injury


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Dazz
Last year
16:00 1 Feb 16

Reply #575624

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Anyone blaming Ogilvy for that has been on the turps.


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Ricky
Last year
16:01 1 Feb 16

Reply #575625

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

That Ogilvy fella, trying to take out Randle for MVP purposes.. shameful.

Retrospective USF and life ban for him.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Last year
16:09 1 Feb 16

Reply #575626

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Not only was that nowhere near deliberate or a "dog act" by AJ, the person who suggested that Randle had "right of way" should be shot.

AJ was completely within his rights to play the ball (and give up a foul) to make sure he stopped the bucket. He did that but it had an unfortunate result. Thats about the size of it.


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Isaac
Last year
16:41 1 Feb 16

Reply #575634

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Isaac you would say that given we are talking about the Hawks.
Yeah, and I guess those two lifelong Hawks-fans from out West posting similar things are so biased too?

Randle initiated that body contact. He deviates from the direct path to the basket. Unfortunate for his knee, but that's clearly what happened.

I support both teams in that game and thought the refs were OK, as did the friend beside me. Refs can't win - let it go, and it's a brawl. Call it tight to discourage hard play and it's "Let them play. We're not here to see you."

Yes, Bake, that last foul was a phantom. And I have no idea why the crowd was booing after the ref called DJ for fouling on that three. Was the crowd watching for contact at the time of the shot rather than earlier in the motion up?


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XY
Last year
16:59 1 Feb 16

Reply #575637

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

One thing your bro does not do Isaac is airball a three by more than a metre unless DJ gets a piece of his arm going up (there was clearly no ball in it on the replay). So I had no problem with that call and similarly did not understand the boos. I think it was just that the replay did not clearly show DJ getting a piece of his arm either, but you have to appreciate the cause and effect.

I suspect the other poster was referring to Coenraad's two And-1 attempts from light or inconsequential contact after the ball left his hand where Coenraad seemed to make the most of them. The second was worse than the first. Coenraad bricked both free throws, so perhaps this was a case of 'ball don't lie'.

Was listening to Gaze's call on the replay, and he seemed to have no idea what was going on from foul to foul. He complained about the good ones and defended the bad ones and didn't know whether the game was being called too light or too hard. I like Gaze but I thought that was a real example of his limitations.


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Hmmm
Last year
17:29 1 Feb 16

Reply #575639

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Isaac " refs were OK"

Boti Nagy " This maybe the worse refereed NBL game I have ever seen"


Refs lost control of the game in the first minute.Kevin White was illegally allowed to hold Randle on all in bound plays. Sobey did the same thing and was called for a foul on White.This caused even Joe Ingles to comment on Twitter. Coenraad drew 2 fouls on shots that would not ordinarily be called. DJ called for pushing Martin who fell forward under his on power. Many many other instances could be cited.


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koberulz
Last year
17:44 1 Feb 16

Reply #575643

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

And I have no idea why the crowd was booing after the ref called DJ for fouling on that three. Was the crowd watching for contact at the time of the shot rather than earlier in the motion up?
Were you watching on TV, or were you at the game?

Sometimes on the LED screens it can be hard to see things that look pretty clear on TV, particularly if you don't know where to look (and yeah, I'd imagine a lot of people would've been looking up top). Even then, it wasn't all that visible on TV.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:37 1 Feb 16

Reply #575658

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Correct. Hawks got hosed on many calls.

At least the stadium finally has real lighting. Since 1992 it was like they were playing in the dark and many times mentioned this and rabid sixer fans knocked me down. looked awful on TV. Now new lighting and surprise surprise you love it. hypocrites


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KET
Last year
20:25 1 Feb 16

Reply #575670

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Randle initiated that body contact. He deviates from the direct path to the basket. Unfortunate for his knee, but that's clearly what happened.


Agreed, doesn't look like Ogilvy did anything wrong, a basic foul, that's it.


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Dazz
Last year
21:21 1 Feb 16

Reply #575676

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

This whole premise of this thread is off.

They allowed Illawarra to scrag, hit and do anything they liked to Randle, which ultimately resulted in what could be a season ending injury.
So basically you're blaming the refs and Hawks for an accident that even Blind Freddy can see was "caused" by Randle deliberately throwing himself sideways to draw a foul, then stumbling (possibly over Ogilvy's big feet.)


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Wilson Sting
Last year
23:52 1 Feb 16

Reply #575694

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

The refereeing has been bad (inconsistent) all season. There was nothing in this game to suggest it was any better or worse than any other game. The refereeing needs a weekly review and feedback session to refs, coaches, players and the NBL. Mick Downer would be a perfect candidate to assume that role.


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Isaac
Last year
08:18 2 Feb 16

Reply #575707

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Were you watching on TV, or were you at the game?
At the game. Then was out and talking to Oscar for a few hours after the game. He said that he was hit on that shot. I thought the same as XY - he's not going to miss a shot that badly unless he's been hit.

He said it was really loud when he was shooting the FTs! Atmosphere was great.


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paul
Last year
08:33 2 Feb 16

Reply #575712

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I'm with Wilson and Isaac on this one. The Townsville v Adelaide game a few weeks ago was really bad, this one was just run of the mill with the odd howler.

I think the fact some people are saying the refs called way too many fouls, while others are saying they let it get out of hand, suggests there is more hysteria than analysis on this one.


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PeterJohn
Last year
09:27 2 Feb 16

Reply #575725

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

^+1

on the DJ/Forman shooting foul - replay on the beautiful new cube screens at the game showed apparent contact on Forman's right forearm from Johnson's left hand as Forman brought the ball up from about waist height. That camera angle was about the same as the ref who called the foul. No problem with that call.


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Isaac
Last year
10:04 2 Feb 16

Reply #575733

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

paul, one person commented to me that it was a foul every 40-50ish seconds. Others say it was out of control from the start. And then some even dislike the refs "coaching" and warning players during play - how else do you try to keep play moving?

Consistency must be brutally hard when trying to balance all these things.


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paul
Last year
10:16 2 Feb 16

Reply #575739

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Yep, it's been a tough year for the refs because from what I hear the new boss tells them to call each decision purely on its merits (eg no particular emphasis on charge/block, letting small travels go or calling them all) and also says to only call the fouls that are necessary.

No wonder they are confused, and no wonder coaches, players and fans are confused. You have each ref on the panel, of differing experience and ability, making their own judgement calls on each situation. That's why you regularly see same/very similar situations called differently.

It's like a team playing without an offence and the coach just saying make a read on what you think is right.

I like the idea of letting it go a bit, it's produced some great ball at times this year, but you have to give the refs clear directives of what the have to call and what they can let go.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:24 2 Feb 16

Reply #575741

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I love how these things are always the referees fault. No blame is directed to the coaches playing that style of roughing up opposition players. No blame put on anyone but the referees. Inconsistent refereeing is such a cop out line. Every play is different even if from the stand it can look the same. Every game is different because of the style the teams are choosing to play.

Andre called Gaze out in the coverage about his referee bashing. Let them play and then bash them about the grabbing, bumping, ugly scrapping. Call it tight and get blamed for ruining a game, being all about them etc. Gaze couldn't answer the question regarding the refereeing being too tight or too loose.

Coaches decide the style of play. Referees respond to that.

The NBA is way more inconsistent, biased and full of phantom calls compared to the NBL but the Americans generally accept it for what it is. Finals Series have been decided by Superstar calls, or Big City teams getting calls over others.

Watch a few Euro League games and tell me Australian refereeing is any worse or more inconsistent.

Yes as a League they should always have improving the refereeing as part of their plans. I'm sure they do with the limited resources they have. Would you be happy to pay double at the door so the NBL could fund professional referees like we now have professional coaches, assistants and players?

Seems the Australian thing to do (across all sports) to blame the referee. Just enjoy the game, deal with the calls you get. You'll find you leave the venue a much happier individual no matter if your team wins or loses.


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paul
Last year
10:38 2 Feb 16

Reply #575743

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

As I said earlier, I don't blame the refs, I blame the lack of direction they are given.

In 2014 they were given a clear direction on how to call the game and they were pretty consistent with it, this season the direction hasn't been there to nearly the same level and it's the most inconsistent I've ever seen it.

What 2014 showed us is players and coaches adjust if the game in called consistently, whichever way that is.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Last year
10:57 2 Feb 16

Reply #575747

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I'm in the "call the game tighter to get the game to flow" camp. Its hard for people to get their head around that the players will adjust but I believe it works. If thats the direction we take, we cant have people/players/coaches/media complaining that we need to "let the players play" because we'll be going around in circles.

I don't mind the refs coaching, providing they don't coach the same issue without ever blowing the whistle. Their verbal instruction should be a first and final warning. I don't want to hear a ref telling someone "no hold, no hold" for an entire play phase and not get pinged for the hold.

The issue I have is the grandstanding by some senior officials, or their attitude that seems to be that because they continue to win awards and recognition then their obscure/unique calls are correct and a sign of how good they actually are. Aylen is the perfect example of this and Butler went down the same path before he retired.


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paul
Last year
11:01 2 Feb 16

Reply #575749

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Aylen's push off call on Childress last round was ridiculous.

I'm big on calling the scrappy reaching, hacking etc tightly because that makes the spectacle look bad. Casual viewers tune in and assume the standard is poor. Call that tight and the hands come out pretty quick.

But I'm all for allowing players to use their bodies playing positional defence, and elevating from good defensive position to contest shots. That's how you get 'hardball' and make it a more athletic contest but also a cleaner looking one where players show off their skills.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:37 2 Feb 16

Reply #575790

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

I'm for the refs setting the tone in the first 5 and then letting them play and watching some ft rest clean fast transition ball. 3 sec defence please.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:30 2 Feb 16

Reply #575806

re: Refereeing in 36ers-Hawks was substandard

Let's face it even with proper lighting in the stadium finally the refs are still blind as.


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