Dazz
Years ago

What's an Assist really worth?

There's some judgement required in recording an assist, but put simply the player has assisted another to make a score.

Now, passing the ball to Penney, who then drains a 3, may not seem like much. But it does take vision, judgement, and skill to hit your centre under the basket. And I'd also argue that sometimes there is a skill to realising that your 3-point specialist is open on his own, and flicking him the pass so he can shoot before the defence covers.

The reason I ask is this:
If I was choosing an "All-Star" team, the first guard I would pick (Damo love aside) is Cedric Jackson. No hesitation. IMHO he is hands-down the best Point-Guard in the league.
Yet in the 6 guards actually chosen, he doesn't even crack a mention?
Ok, he doesn't score like Randle, or even Holt, and traditionally we like high-scoring from our imports, but is that the primary role of a PG? And as I asked in the title, how much are all those assists worth?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You have way to much time on your hand to create this.

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Baller#3  
Years ago

An assist in the NBL is a true assist, in the NBA however sometimes you could pass the ball and the player could dribble a few times and do a step back jumper and you would still get credited. I believe a balanced point guard is more valuable then both a scoring or passing point guard.

I would take a 10 and 8 point guard over a 20 and 3 point or a 5 and 12 guard, because he is likely taking good shots and finding good shots for others.

In my opinion balance is everything.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more

What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more

(Woah-woah-woah, oh, oh)
(Woah-woah-woah, oh, oh)

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paul  
Years ago

I think Cedric missed out because his horror run finished not long before the votes were cast.

Had the voting been done two weeks later I'm pretty sure he would have been in the All-Second Team, and he was All-First Team every other season he's been here so I think his dimes are being appreciated Dazz!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

someone please find Dazz a job.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

An assist is worth the amount of points scored from the pass made Confucius say

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Come on guys Dazz is a deep thinker!

Reply #579898 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I picture Dazz Chalmers and Koberulz all as work at home types just waiting to copy and paste their way through this site! Dazz has especially been on fire of late, NBA Jam style!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Those three are a classic. What is it with Wildcats fans, so argumentative and OCDish online.

Reply #579905 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

What's your point about assisting the centre or a shooter about? You don't make any mention of Jackson's assists leading to scores of greater value than other guards.

And if assisting scorers is a great measure, surely so is simply scoring yourself?

Randle for example was 1st in scoring and 2nd in assists.

Jackson was 1st in assists but 21st in scoring.

Jackson's value is in general defence as much as anything. Strongest rebounding guard by stats.

Lisch was top five in scoring, 7th or so in assists and 1st in steals.

Pretty easy to make a case for Randle and Lisch holding Jackson out of the first team.

Reply #579906 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

I always liked point guards like Mee and McDonald. They didn't score heavily themselves, usually were top 2 or 3 in assists but their big impact was in how the team improved overall when they were on the floor. Shit hot defenders, too.

A really good point guard makes the team around him perform better than when he's not there. For me, that's where Jackson may have an edge over Randle. That said, I think we've yet to see the best of Randle. I'd like to see him with more, reliable scoring options for him to use than he had this season.

Reply #579911 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Answering the OP's question, it depends. If you beat three defenders - or pass out of a double team - and find someone wide open it means a lot.

If someone else does that work, then you receive the ball from them and make the next pass to a shooter, your action probably isn't quite as valuable, though still important to the team.

I guess I'm saying that not all assists are created equal.

Reply #579914 | Report this post


ROFLcopter  
Years ago

lol.

Reply #579917 | Report this post


1.5 fps in my Yahoo league.

Reply #579918 | Report this post


AngusH  
Years ago

It depends on your roster. If your PG is your best scorer (ala Randle), surely you want him to be getting up shots. There are benefits on both ends of the court to getting your teammates involved, but at the end of the day do you want Randle looking to finish when he gets to the middle of the key, or dish to Lucas Walker for the long J?

Efficiency is the key for scoring PGs, and that's what separates a PG like Randle from a PG like McRae last year.

Reply #579929 | Report this post


Southern Joe  
Years ago

[Quote}What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more

What is love?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more

(Woah-woah-woah, oh, oh)
(Woah-woah-woah, oh, oh)[/Quote]


Emilio !!!!

Reply #579931 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A valuable stat is also the 2nd and 3rd pass or more that leads to a score.

Reply #579932 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Slightly off topic, but i loved Nash because of the types of assists he got.

Anyone can pass to an open man.

But to have the ability to CREATE an assist from absolutely nothing and make some of the passes he made was special.

Unfortunately the NBA has changed and a lot of PGs are racking up assists just by making simple passess off pick and rolls etc. Its a different type of assist to the Kidd and Nash types.

Reply #579944 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Isaac, what Paul said: "Not all assists are equal".

Although I went on to talk about Cedric, perhaps I shouldn't have.

My question basically is, "what's an assist really worth?"
All other things being equal, would you rather have a guy who averages 10 points, or 10 assists?
It's easy to measure the contribution of a shooter, (in isolation) but how much does an assist really contribute, and how valuable is it as a measure?

Reply #579950 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Do you know what an assist is really Daryl?

Reply #579953 | Report this post


Just Very Old  
Years ago

As others have said, not all assists are equal.


a player that sets you up for your score, a player who reads the court and gives you points that you ( or your coach or the opponent) did not see coming is worth a huge amount. Particularly in respect of the team feeling good about itself and each other.

The best PGs can actually dominate a pressing defense by taking the pressure off other players onto themselves, and then firing out an assist that makes the defense feel that all that energy was expended for nothing, and now they have to score and then start all over again.

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Luuuc  
Years ago

"All other things being equal, would you rather have a guy who averages 10 points, or 10 assists?"

Does that even need an answer?

Reply #579964 | Report this post


Just Very Old  
Years ago

well as 10 assists must equal at least 20 points , and up to a possible 30 and even an exceptional 40 points ( work it out) it would appear to be a rather badly thought out question in its specifics

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Luuuc  
Years ago

10 assists could also equal 10 points.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is the sky blue? What came first chickens or eggs?

Reply #579972 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually I know why the sky is blue. No need to copy and paste that question with a text book answer. An assist is great as is a made basket, teams don't care who does what as long a sit happen alanthe golden state warriors. Frustrating discussion as there is no text book answer and every opinion is right as long as it leads to points. Even the ice hockey assists work. Scouts don't go off stats but how the play develops that's all you need to know Dazz if your looking to make a roster.

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Hoopie  
Years ago

As a coach, I stress the importance of assists with my players to emphasise that it's a team game, and that they depend on each other. When you only praise the scorer, you risk ending up with a bunch of selfish players who care about their own points too much.

I also stress to my players that one role of the PG is to get everyone involved, and to get the ball into everyone's hands by their passing. If it leads to baskets, all the better. It makes every player feel more valued, and makes the defence's job harder because they have more threats to guard.

Reply #579981 | Report this post


Naph  
Years ago

John Hollinger gave it a value equivalent to 0.7 points in his game score metric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hollinger

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Hollinger was on the money and I am sure that Dazz hasn't worked out the game pace either.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Also the Tendex system relies on the position totals being included in the formula as well. Done that to Dazz?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I'd say Dazz has done a lot less than that.

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proud  
Years ago

Ideally I want my point guard to be a terrific ball handler with a Tim Hardaway killer crossover, I want him to pass like a John Stockton/Jason Kidd and lead the league in steals like a Gary Payton/Damo type. I'd love him to be able to penetrate and get to the rim when he chooses like Ricky Grace/Randall type and Knock down the open shots.

I'd much rather a point guard/play maker to have ten assists than score 20 a game as I want him to get team mates involved and whilst I mentioned mainly NBA types above the NBL seems to frown upon one pass shots type plays and that would be the best way of getting a player averaging ten assists a game again in the NBL.

An assist is worth a great deal if it can lead to getting the crowd excited of quietening them done or getting an underperforming star hot for the first time during the game. It also helps a team feel like a team and not a bunch of individuals that will run the floor and try and make the own baskets as soon as they get the ball

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