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ME
Last year

#39093

Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to 'get better' in light of salary cap changes.

http://www.aussiehoopla.com/aussie-nbl-players-will-forced-get-better-according-boomers-icon-andrew-gaze/

How do you think the rules will change the league?

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paul
Last year
18:20 29 Feb 16

Reply #580928

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

"When I came through, and started playing with the Melbourne Tigers at fifteen, sixteen, we had four imports. We were in a competitive situation and we didn't get opportunities to play by default"

Gaze talks without thinking sometimes. There were around twice as many teams as there are now when he came through. If he thinks guys are "playing by default it shows how little attention he pays.

The process of going down to eight teams has already forced local talent to get better just to get in or stay in the league.


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koberulz
Last year
18:48 29 Feb 16

Reply #580929

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

So they're essentially getting rid of the points cap and the salary cap?

Hope everyone likes Perth and NZ.


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Train
Last year
18:53 29 Feb 16

Reply #580930

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Buying a championship will be easier than ever.


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alexkrad
Last year
18:54 29 Feb 16

Reply #580931

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Sorry to get off topic.. That youtube highlights mix tape of Andrew Gaze that is attached to the article has the most appropriate soundtrack for the subject matter ever.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:20 29 Feb 16

Reply #580933

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

How many Nbl clubs run at a profit, it will be open slather and only a few will survive. Three team competition will good for basketball.
Nz can play cats one week, Melbourne can have the buy, I can hardly wait for the excitement.


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Wilson Sting
Last year
19:52 29 Feb 16

Reply #580936

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

You do realise Cairns are about the most solid financial team in the league since they don't rely on a sugar daddy?


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Anonymous
Last year
20:10 29 Feb 16

Reply #580937

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Cairns are far from that solid and without the support of the CCC they wouldn't be making a profit at all. That's their token sugar daddy.


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fstos
Last year
20:53 29 Feb 16

Reply #580943

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

This is from my old memory but when Gaze started playing for the Tigers, while they may have had 4 imports a couple of them were probably shit and the team had SFA depth in Aussie talent.

For a great player he really has NFI about much else about the game including what the league was like back then.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:16 29 Feb 16

Reply #580945

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Once former sport stars get in media they seem lose all sense of what really is required. It might be the big pay packets.


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ROFLcopter
Last year
21:18 29 Feb 16

Reply #580947

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Lol

Gaze knows fuck all about the NBL and basketball aye?

This joint is full of flogs. Gaze is a god to us basketball lovers.


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paul
Last year
21:20 29 Feb 16

Reply #580948

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Spot on ftsos. We all love Drewey, but he is the Dougie Hawkins of the NBL.


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Luuuc
Last year
21:38 29 Feb 16

Reply #580950

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Good analogy, paul.
Unfortunately great playing skills do not necessarily translate to great punditry skills. He is Exhibit A.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:44 29 Feb 16

Reply #580952

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Be interesting to see how he goes in seabl. Might underestimate the work opposing head coaches put into their teams.


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Dazz
Last year
22:02 29 Feb 16

Reply #580953

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

It was a different league when Gaze played. I still respect hi commentary, but you can't compare his era to today.

We have already discussed the 3-import rule, however the 4-marquee locals rule is really going to shake that up. I'm not sure what they mean by "up to 4." Every rule is by default "up to." Does it imply that maybe the number of marquee locals allowed will change depending on say the number of imports?

I just cannot see how this is not a MASSIVE rearrangement of the competition? 4 marquee players basically shreds any semblance of the salary cap having any meaning at all. If you can pay your best 4 players whatever you want, then use the cap for the remaining 6, does it have any real meaning?

My biggest concern is this. Sustainably powerful clubs (like the Cats and NZ) are one thing. But what this opens the league up to is more crap like we saw with Tim Johnson, Mark Cowan, and now allegedly LK. Guys come in for a few seasons, throw their money around, buy a championship or two, then get bored and piss off.

The problem is that the NBL is barely sustainable. In fact we know its not sustainable without owners tipping in money from time to time. That's fine as long as its not extreme, and as long as its sustainable in the long term.
As a Cats fan I am eternally grateful that Dr Bendat stepped in during the challenge years, kept us afloat and kept us competitive. But I would hate to think that he would now tip in even more millions to make us competitive under these new rules. Great for the Cats and a few others, but many teams would fall too far behind.

It would seem that the only restriction left will be the PPR system, and I have a major issue with that. Why would a team bother with 8 or 9 point locals, when they can go and buy ex-Europe players at 9 points?

It's going to be a return to the bad old days when you rock up to game 1 and don't recognise anyone.

The "Asian Player" rule just makes no sense. Does that mean we just ring up the Chinese camp and buy our own Yao Ming?


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Last year
22:12 29 Feb 16

Reply #580954

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

"Lol

Gaze knows fuck all about the NBL and basketball aye?

This joint is full of flogs. Gaze is a god to us basketball lovers."

It was probably less than 12 months ago when he publicly stated the NBL needs to shut down for a year.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:09 29 Feb 16

Reply #580956

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

So with another team supposedly dropping out and the sugar daddy of the NBL spending millions for a Brisbane side and financially propping up the League, looks like he was right.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Last year
23:31 29 Feb 16

Reply #580959

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

How does that make him right? How would taking a year off have made things better?


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Dazz
Last year
02:13 1 Mar 16

Reply #580962

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Gaze is good commentator for games. He has respect, and he knows how to play. However he seems to have limited understanding of how the league works.


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Cram
Last year
05:20 1 Mar 16

Reply #580969

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Yeah I don't agree with Drew here at all. I'm pretty sure his reference to playing seniors with the Tigers with 4 imports wasn't even nbl, it was when they were still state league.

LK is definitely sending the league into an arms race that, once again looks like it'll leave too many teams on the brink through spending too much or being uncompetitive through not spending enough.

Again, I think the only way the nbl can have long term success and stability is with a drastically cut salary cap and more teams.

Trying to out spend everyone may look like success in the short term but it cannot be sustainable


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koberulz
Last year
06:13 1 Mar 16

Reply #580970

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

You do realise Cairns are about the most solid financial team in the league since they don't rely on a sugar daddy?
Also because they spend under the salary cap on their roster. Which is going to get them a lot of wooden spoons if all these rules go through, and fans are eventually going to give up.


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paul
Last year
09:27 1 Mar 16

Reply #580977

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Maybe, but Cairns and the Hawks have both made GFs recently paying a lot less than a number of other teams. I'm not sure any of the suggested changes would automatically make lower-spending teams wooden spooners.


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Hoopie
Last year
10:15 1 Mar 16

Reply #580978

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Maybe LK sees this as a way to increase revenues and fill stadiums in the short term, and get a solid base of fans for the long term.
We certainly don't have the crowds that we did in the 90s


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Cram
Last year
11:01 1 Mar 16

Reply #580979

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Lower spending teams can compete for titles occasionally but over time, the teams throwing the money around will win the overwhelming majority of the time.

Teams in Europe (both hoops and football) are evidence of this. This season's epl is the outlier.

I can see the idea of spending big to get people through the door. But it's been done and it's hard to see how it's ever going to be sustainable


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PeterJohn
Last year
11:07 1 Mar 16

Reply #580980

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

"while they may have had 4 imports a couple of them were probably shit and the team had SFA depth in Aussie talent. "

Here's some context for Gaze's comments about his personal experience. It certainly undermines his choice of that experience as a guide to the impact of the proposed changes for contemporary Australian players in the NBL.

Gaze's first year in NBL was 1984, when the Tigers joined the league. In 1984, the NBL had 17 teams and 198 individual players played in that season. By comparison, 119 players played in 2015-16. Note that, unlike 2015-16, NZ and Oceania players not Australian citizens would have been imports in 1984 and there weren't any. So there were around 160 NBL spots for Australian players in 1984 compared with around 100 in 2015-16 for Australian and non-Australian citizens of Oceanias. In terms of starting fives, the numbers of places would have been around 50 and 35, respectively.

The Tigers' roster in 1984:

Peter Walsh
Ian Rouse
Ray Gordon
Mark Oliver
James Kirkup
Brian Goorjian (import)
Al Westover (import)
Nigel Purchase
Andrew Gaze
Russ Dyer (import)
Mike Dimattina
Peter Morse

I don't know who would have been the 4th import. Maybe Mark Oliver?

Goorjian and Dyer were one season NBL players. Westover played 2 NBL seasons (1985 with Geelong). Both Goorjian and Westover had played with the Tigers for 6 or 7 seasons before they joined the NBL. In 1984 Goorjian ranked 24th in PPG, 3rd in APG, 78th in RPG; Westover was 60th in PPG, 26th in APG, 113th in RPG; and Dyer ranked 18th in PPG, 21st in APG, 32nd in RPG.

In 1984 the Tigers won 11 of 24 games and finished 5th of 9 teams in the Eastern Division, which meant they missed playoffs by 2 wins. Across both divisions (17 teams), they had the 9th highest winning percentage.

The next 4 seasons the Tigers spent at the bottom of the table (bottom twice, second bottom twice). In those seasons, the NBL operated as a single division of 14 teams (13 in 1988). The Tigers became a regular contender from 1989, when they recruited Dave Simmons and Dave Colbert as imports.

It wasn't until they replaced Colbert with Copeland in 1992 that they became a championship contender. Adding Bradtke in 1993 brought them a championship.

That gives some insight into the quality of the Tigers' Australian players relative to the rest of the (much larger than today) league, in the period to which Gaze refers.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:15 1 Mar 16

Reply #580985

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Thanks Peter John,

Just shows that great players don't always know what there talking about, I wish sometimes they would be patient before and let the Nbl settle into a good league before to many changes.
It's been the best season in years, let it nurture it's self.


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Isaac
Last year
14:09 1 Mar 16

Reply #580987

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

LK has three years to prove himself. One year has passed. I don't think he has time to wait. He has to make the product more entertaining for TV ASAP.

Three imports would help cover for an additional team and I don't think it would entirely work against cheaper clubs. They would instead be in a position to fill needs from a larger talent pool.

If I own a club and a new team is entering the league, and I have $70k to burn, I'd much rather have the option of an import.

Let's say Perth retire Redhage and bring in another Prather. Might be less bitching on Hoops, but I'd guess the league would be more entertaining.


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???
Last year
14:17 1 Mar 16

Reply #580990

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

On the surface having 3 imports looks to be more expense for teams which wouldn't make sense considering where some of the existing teams are at financially.

But I would assume that there has been some consultation with all the teams and this change would only be implemented if it is viable.

LK would obviously know the impacts and there would have been planning around the benefits.

There is no doubt that it should make for a more entertaining game.

From what I have seen this season there have been massive steps taken in improving the NBL so I would have confidence in the moves that LK is making.

Maybe this is to counter any impacts of the proposed Champions Basketball League that created a buzz earlier this year but seems to have fizzled out...


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Anonymous
Last year
14:37 1 Mar 16

Reply #580993

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

More imports mean more chance they will marry and stay here once they figure out how good Australia is


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MACDUB
Last year
14:41 1 Mar 16

Reply #580994

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I do agree with Gazes' assessment about certain Australian players getting positions by default.

I do think perhaps the league wanted more stability before pulling the trigger on changes such as these, but I think they ultimately realised that a TV deal was needed. It's a case of instead of waiting for others to catch up (which could take another 5-10 years if at all), the league is saying were moving forward regardless and you have to keep up.

I like it - it weeds out the weak links.


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Anonymous
Last year
14:54 1 Mar 16

Reply #580998

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

LV the fools are talking $300k for Randle, whats a spare $70k gonna get u?


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Anonymous
Last year
16:17 1 Mar 16

Reply #581006

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Wonder how much Marcus Thornton was earning at the Kings, bet you a lot more than $70,000. I'll take an Aussie ahead of him.
In all that I could probably accept the three import rule but four marquee players seems a bit much and the Asian player if good enough should be an import.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:48 1 Mar 16

Reply #581007

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

It's laughable.


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fstos
Last year
16:59 1 Mar 16

Reply #581008

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

MACDUB. " do agree with Gazes' assessment about certain Australian players getting positions by default."

But wasn't he using his first Tigers team as some sort of example about him not getting a game by default.

As I said my memory told me that his team was shit (relative to todays league) when he entered the league. After my memory (I have watched and followed the/a league(s)from before the time of the NBL)was reinforced by the publication of the actual roster the players were even "shittier" than I remembered. Peter Walsh started and he would be dominated by Ben Allen. Goorj, Westover were imports that you get by giving them a part time job due to the fact that they would have no capacity to earn money from full time playing elsewhere. Can't even remember Dyer.

Nigel Purchase was probably their second best Aussie player. His claim to fame was racking up assists by passing the ball the ball to Gaze. He went to the Bullets as a role player after years at the Tigers from memory. I'll be generous and say that he was almost as good as maybe Greg Hire but a poorer shooter.

Decent imports and Gaze along with the top tier Aussies looked like superstars back then because the quality dropped off to part time players on most teams benches. Not anyone I can think of in a teams top 8 who got a gig by default this season. PLENTY back then.


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MACDUB
Last year
17:40 1 Mar 16

Reply #581012

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

fstos, i mean i agree with Gazes' proposition that he believes players in today's game get playing time and roster spots by default. As in, i agree that it was probably harder to get a game by default back then.


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paul
Last year
18:58 1 Mar 16

Reply #581018

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

There were twice as many Aussie spots in the league back then and nowhere near the depth of talent due to the low participation rates before the 'Jordan boom'.

It has never been harder to get a gig in the NBL than it is right now. Gaze is so far off the mark it's hard to believe he wasn't misquoted or quoted out of context.


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fstos
Last year
19:00 1 Mar 16

Reply #581019

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

MACDUB. Sorry but I completely disagree with both Gaze and yourself.

Brad Hill would probably have started and played major minutes back then in many teams.

A lot of that was probably due to the amount of teams BUT

Peter Walsh
Ian Rouse
Ray Gordon
Mark Oliver
James Kirkup
Brian Goorjian (import)
Al Westover (import)
Nigel Purchase
Andrew Gaze
Russ Dyer (import)
Mike Dimattina
Peter Morse

there is a LOT of by default in that team. In fact Gaze is about the only player even at his young age who was not in the league by default.


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paul
Last year
19:04 1 Mar 16

Reply #581021

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Michael Dimattina, great wicketkeeper!


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fstos
Last year
19:20 1 Mar 16

Reply #581023

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Yeah. Play a fair bit of shield didn't he. Gordie was a good keeper in his day as well and was in the HSW Sheffield Shield squad a believe.


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FM
Last year
19:30 1 Mar 16

Reply #581026

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

So he is talking about the days just before Mark Davis worked as a security guard at the Adelaide Casino to pay the bills.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:08 1 Mar 16

Reply #581029

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Are any kids going to realistically not aspire to play ball because of three imports? I think not and if the product is entertaining enough then maybe you get more kids playing. Now, the ones who are lower tier might not be able to make a career out of it if there are less spots but is that really going to effect the future of the game? And it might be chicken or the egg because better on court product might increase TV viewership and ultimately dollars which might support the introduction of more teams and more jobs!


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paul
Last year
20:15 1 Mar 16

Reply #581030

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I think the assumption an extra import = better product is a poor one. If interested, I wrote about it here:

http://www.fiba.com/news/time-to-develop-the-argument

And how I think they should go about it here:

http://www.fiba.com/news/invest-in-the-future-bring-excitement-now


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Anonymous
Last year
20:27 1 Mar 16

Reply #581031

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Aren't the lights brighter in college ball? You get to play in America (young Aussies love to travel and the USA is high on the list) potentially be on espn and participate in March madness. Lots of Aussies going from college to the NBA too which is attractive. Can't recall many young Aussies going straight from NBL to NBA. I think only the second tier young guys who wouldn't be able to go to decent schools would be attracted to go to NBL directly. And what's wrong with adding these guys once they finish their college careers? Would add experience to their resume and theyd still be in their early 20s


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paul
Last year
20:48 1 Mar 16

Reply #581033

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

That was the point of the article. When we did get the best young guys playing in the NBL, and a number of them getting drafted from here, it generated buzz about the league.

Those that go to college either don't come back, or don't generate the excitement that quality young players do.

Are the lights brighter in college? They have been recently, but that's what the NBL should aim to change now they have the resources to do so.

The lights are certainly getting brighter here and rather than focusing on third-choice imports, focus attention on getting our best players before and after they make their name OS.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:52 1 Mar 16

Reply #581034

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I remember a time when young guys got drafted from the NBL, but I don't recall any of them actually being brought over to play. Whereas guys like Delly and Bairstow got contracts straight away - might be the "better the devil you know" part of things where the american teams feel more comfortable bringing guys onto the roster that have played in the college system.

Regarding the lure of college, just look at a guy like Hugh Greenwood. Basketball wasn't really his main passion, yet he still stuck with it for years because it gave him the opportunity to play college ball and travel the world. Once he came back to the NBL he realised it wasn't for him. That's how much brighter the lights are in the USA. I don't see the NBL being a viable alternative to college for your top prospects like the ones you mentioned. I think the NBL should focus on bringing back the guys who have played in college. Like that guy who won the D2 player of the year and we didn't see him come to the NBL.


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Dazz
Last year
20:58 1 Mar 16

Reply #581035

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I think a temporary move to 3 imports would help whilst the league is expanding. Say Brisbane next season, maybe Wellington year after, etc.
Not all imports are going to be guns, especially for teams on a limited budget, but it would make it easier to fill gaps in your squad.
But I think they also need to tweak the PPR. There's currently not enough difference between a gun import on 10, and decent bench player on 8.
The danger as always is in allowing cashed up clubs to get 3 guns, whilst struggling clubs go without.

I still feel the biggest impact will be the 4 marquee locals rule.
I get that they want to attract more Aussie (& NZ) talent back to the league, but gees that is opening a can of worms.

And here's the thing, even if more money = better players = better standard, so what? Is that what is best for the league? I enjoy watching NBL because its relevant and accessible. I support the Wildcats because they're our team. I'm sure they're are many better quality leagues in the world, but they have no interest or relevance for me.
One of the good things about this season is that only an injury ravaged Sydney have been easy beats. We've dominated at home, but had some close games, and almost every road game has been a challenge. Last thing I want to see is a league where only MU and NZ can give us a run for our MONEY.

Also gotta be honest. The Cats have something like 8 players out of contract. Now I expect some tweaks, and I am prepared for Redhage's retirement, but I don't want to see 8 new players next season.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:01 1 Mar 16

Reply #581036

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Actually Anstey comes to mind as a guy who got drafted from the NBL and then made it over there. But I think that was before Aussies were consistently making NBA rosters straight from college.

The thing is, if you're a young kid with the option to go to college vs NBL, what are you really giving up by choosing college? You probably wouldn't be attracting huge dollars as a NBL rookie, and you can always come back there after a few years in college. The market will still be there for you as a talented young local. Then you get the experience of being in the college environment and who knows, if you kill it, maybe you get a NBA or Euro gig? At the end of the day, they are a lot more eyeballs on college ball than NBL, even in the NBL's "glory days".


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Anonymous
Last year
21:20 1 Mar 16

Reply #581038

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I do think extra import does equate to a better product.

If every team replaced say there 10th man with a import even a DQ Montreal level import for the same money, that is a big upgrade imo. Lets face it losing many of the 10th men wont really cost the league much in qulaity, the good players who start as 10th men, will overtake a few team mates before too long and not be replaced naturally,

I have no problems with extra imports or less restrictions, it puts more pressure on guys to live up to there price tag or be replaced easier by an import too, which i like and Gibbo is an exmaple of a spot by default

a. he is good enough to play in the NBL
b. there are very few aussies at his position pg or sg clearly better than him who are in the NBL, but still not that great
c. it wouldnt be that hard to replace him with a better import, ie improve the product for the same money or less

I firmly beleive that the 36ers could have swapped Gibson for Torrey Craig (who yes is a different player) and got much better production for heaps less money

Thats the opportunity the 3rd import gives

It also helps teams , the crocs are an example, the year they had Josh Pace they couldnt get a decent aussie big, so giuys like Vanderjagt got a gig and minutes by default, the following year they saw they were lacking in this and replaced him with Gladness to play with Conklin to shore up the front court and they were a dynamic guard short, in either of those years if they could have had a 3rd import to fill the gap it would have given them a much better rounded team and a better product on the court for the whole league.

Even if the import was just a guy who has played NZ NBL or sEABL, ie the crocs could have ran with Pace, Conklin AND Gladness as there imports next to say Markovic and Blanchfield at the time, how is that not better

Thats what the advantage of the 3rd import is imo


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paul
Last year
21:20 1 Mar 16

Reply #581039

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

It depends on what the NBL puts to you, doesn't it? To get our best young talent you have to make an effort, just as they are starting to with our top talent.

Re draftees, since the NBL came into existence we've had seven drafted from college, four from the NBL, one from Europe and one from the AIS, so there isn't a big difference, especially when you consider how many more of our young players go to college.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:28 1 Mar 16

Reply #581040

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

There are soo few guys who go from NBL to NBA its impossible to sell, the majority NBA players play college in the USA,

Anstey played in a gold medal winning junior world championship team, and had eunique skill sets for a big

Andersen and Ingles played NBL, then Euroleague and international tournaments for Australia then NBA, so not straight from NBL

Ennis, was from college and was already drafted and known and i get the feeling is only just hanging in the NBA too with his lack of minutes

Gaze was known from his college days at Seton Hall and international tournaments

Bogut, Mills, Delly, etc went via college and Mills played a short NBL stint after playing some NBA

I cant really think of anyone who has made NBA from the NBL wihtout playing college ball before hand or doing well at an Olympics ala Heal,

So lets face it the path from NBL straight to NBA and skipping college isnt really a realistic path way for those with NBA potential, they need to go to college and/or Euroleague and/or Olympics aswell as NBL if they come from the NBL.


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paul
Last year
21:33 1 Mar 16

Reply #581041

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Hang on, there's been seven drafted from college and four from the NBL, despite the fact the vast majority of our best young players have gone to college in recent years.

The current NBL ownership has the resources to sell it if they make it a priority. It was once the done thing, no reason it can't be again if sold right.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:39 1 Mar 16

Reply #581042

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Also how do NBL clubs out bid top Euro clubs for our top young talent

I remember when Kickert finnished college and he was training with the Tigers one off season when they had Anstey on the roster, they were trying to convince him to play NBL, but he chose Europe, i remember Anstey mentioning he was starting his pro careeer on around $250k in Europe, NBL cant compete,

a. thats marquee type money for a league with $1mil or there abouts cap, which Kickert straight out of college wouldnt have been ready for, very few of our young players could come and dominate NBL straight out of NBL to justify that price tag.

b. if we did pay those guys that and keep them, and then we have to pay other, better older guys that or more, so club roster budgets blow out to what most NBL clubs could afford, we bearely afford current levels, some dont

So i dont see how we match that, without over paying guys who wont live up to the price tag and there teams wont be strong enough as a result, (guys like Weigh and Cadee in the Clarke 36ers are sort of NBL examples to a lower level too)

Or sending clubs broke

So lets face it the next young star, etc isnt likely to play NBL striaght away as they can earn so much more in Europe straight away

The NBL cant really fix that imo

So having a few imports helps compliment the Aussies that we can get in the NBL, and makes it a stronger product.

To me the NBL is about entertainment, selling tickets, sponsorships, tv, etc, which to me it needs to be, to be able to afford to pay the players they need to make money

The best Aussies, and young ones will still get a gig as they do now, lets face it we still have guys who were not great young players getting minutes and court time in the NBL, ie SOJ, when you could easily find a cheap import who is way better at no real cost to the NBL or developing top talent for Aus basketballs future


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Anonymous
Last year
21:41 1 Mar 16

Reply #581044

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

a. Now is Randle getting $300k now in the NBL.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:43 1 Mar 16

Reply #581045

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Who are the 4 from NBL???

is it Jawai, Newley, A Majok, Anstey or something like that

Only Anstey got any real NBA minutes, even then not huge,

Newley and Majok never got a gig or all that close

Jawai got a go, but fell to Europe fairly quickly too

So not many NBA minutes played by those guys

The guys via college ie Bogut, Delly, Mills

Or from Europe/good Olympicvs ie Ingles, Andersen, Heal

have had more success as a whole


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Anonymous
Last year
21:45 1 Mar 16

Reply #581047

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Yes but Randle is wayyy better than any of our 18-22 year olds are, ie if MCCarron played NBL its unlikely he would have had the impact of Randle but could have also cost $300k

A proven international import like Randle is worth it, not a Aussie rookie

Ingles, Jawai, Newley prob the best rookies in recentish years, and none were worth close to $300k to a NBL club in the first couple of years as good as they were,

$300k is MVPish money like Randle, not Aussie rookies


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paul
Last year
21:50 1 Mar 16

Reply #581049

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

"I remember when Kickert finnished college and he was training with the Tigers one off season when they had Anstey on the roster, they were trying to convince him to play NBL, but he chose Europe"

Now you're getting it. Wait until after college and you lose these guys. You've got to get them early.

It's simple. Once upon a time most of our best youngsters played NBL. Then, with the number of clubs reducing the our depth of talent increasing, NBL clubs mostly stopped recruiting them.

If the league makes enough of an effort, they will be able to get some of them to play in the NBL, and that will bring back the buzz that players like Mackinnon, Anstey, Newley, Ingles, Jawai and Abercrombie have generated as youngsters.

What stands in the way? The attitude that it can't be done, it's what stands in the way of most things in life. Thankfully, I don't think the current NBL management suffers from that affliction.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:59 1 Mar 16

Reply #581051

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

The money difference they can earn is also a hurdle

I would love to see these guys play NBL, but how can we afford to give them $200-300k when they wouldnt be good enough to be MVP level players???

I think thats the biggest issue, cos clubs can probably sign a MVP level import for that money

So they chose that and i think the MVP level import is the way to go

If they can find a way to afford both then Awesome,

If you can get them back after a couple of years in Europe when they would be awesome NBL players then thats the ideal, ie can you get a Motum or Broekhoff for $250-300k

Thats who i would be targetting, not the fresh rookies on that money, as most wont be that much better than Kay as rookies, he was good, and im a fan but not worth to a NBL club what the guys in Europe would be making.

Thats the thing i dont know how they can solve


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Dazz
Last year
23:22 1 Mar 16

Reply #581053

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

I do think extra import does equate to a better product.

If every team replaced say there 10th man with a import even a DQ Montreal level import for the same money, that is a big upgrade imo. Lets face it losing many of the 10th men wont really cost the league much in qulaity, the good players who start as 10th men, will overtake a few team mates before too long and not be replaced naturally
Your first thought is probably correct.

Teams won't replace their 10th man, the points and money wouldn't allow it. Realistically there will be somewhat of a cascade effect. A 10 point import will replace a 8 or 9 point local (who may or may not remain and move further down the order.) Ultimately their will be less room for the 4~6 point role players, and probably an extra place for 1~3 point rookie because that's all they can afford.
Say a team currently uses 45 points on their starting 5, another 15 points on 6 & 7, and and 10 on the remainder. They may go to say 47 on the 5, 16 on 6 & 7, and leave only 7 to fill the bench.

The danger is that there are teams that can barely (or not) afford two imports. Whereas this rule would allow a team like Perth to swap out Jawai, or even say Wagstaff for another import.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:42 1 Mar 16

Reply #581054

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Paul Rogers and CJ Bruton also got drafted I believe but never really got close to making a roster.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:42 1 Mar 16

Reply #581055

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

And re those two, they may also have garnered attention from international play rather than NBL?


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Isaac
Last year
09:24 2 Mar 16

Reply #581066

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

On the surface having 3 imports looks to be more expense for teams which wouldn't make sense considering where some of the existing teams are at financially.
Why would it necessarily be more expensive? Do you take Lance Hurdle or 2016 Brad Hill? Doubt either was far off minimum. Deleon in his first year vs Tomlinson?


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MACDUB
Last year
09:43 2 Mar 16

Reply #581067

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

fstos,

I can't really compare between now and the 90s beacause its hard to cross compare the skills in different eras. I won't touch on the 90s because admittedly i'm no expert at the NBL during that time.

But I will say that I feel players do get positions by default. The points cap and salary cap means that if you're a low rating and you're willing to take minimum/low pay, you're going to get a position by virtue of the fact that other players having a higher points rating or want/need too much money.

For me, it's a case of not always the best players being chosen, but those that simply have favourable points ratings.

There's been a few non-sensical signings over the past few years.


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PeterJohn
Last year
09:51 2 Mar 16

Reply #581068

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

The Australian players I can recall who were effectively drafted from NBL and went on to play in the NBA, were:

Shane Heal
Chris Anstey
Mark Bradtke
Nathan Jawai (had a year in a USA college but didn't stay - returned home and played QBL then NBL before being signed in the NBA)

All 5 Australian-born players who made it to the NBA before 2005 had played in the NBL first. Even Longley spent a year in the NBL (played 2 games) before going to college in the USA then to the NBA. The other 4 all had successful NBL careers going when they were signed to the NBA. Arguably, Gaze wouldn't have gotten his first opportunity without his year at Seton Hall but the point is that he got to that via NBL and went back to NBL after tryouts with the Supersonics and was playing NBL when the Bullets signed him.

There was clearly a time when NBL was the path to the highest levels of basketball for Australian born players. i.e., Boomers and NBA.

Personally, I doubt that will ever be the case again. The NBL is now privately owned and operated and is an entertainment product. Its first objective has to be viability in the live entertainment market. Removing or relaxing local content requirements may make that easier.

If Perth and Melbourne (and maybe Brisbane) are able to field three above the rim imports, that could produce some NBA level promotional material and in-game thrills. That would make the league both more attractive to watch and to play in. I'd be happy with that.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:06 2 Mar 16

Reply #581069

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Rumour has it the points cap is likely gone

Making swapping brad hill for a lance hurdle type import for the same money easy to do. Would have been hard to do direct swap with points cap in place.

As suggested hurdle and deleon are better and more exciting than guys like hill and Tomlinson and can be had for same money or less and improves the quality of the league.


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ME
Last year
11:47 2 Mar 16

Reply #581074

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

"
The lights are certainly getting brighter here and rather than focusing on third-choice imports, focus attention on getting our best players before and after they make their name OS."

Hence the four marquee Aussie rule.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:36 2 Mar 16

Reply #581075

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

On the surface having 3 imports looks to be more expense for teams which wouldn't make sense considering where some of the existing teams are at financially.
Why would it necessarily be more expensive? Do you take Lance Hurdle or 2016 Brad Hill? Doubt either was far off minimum. Deleon in his first year vs Tomlinson?
It's difficult to say whether it's automatically more expensive. Really depends on who you swap out.
My gut feel is that it will give teams with cash more ability to buy in talent


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Anonymous
Last year
13:32 2 Mar 16

Reply #581085

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

The Kings had great success with Thornton and James ( not ) . What a waste of dollars that was.
Some always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.


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Zodiac
Last year
17:52 2 Mar 16

Reply #581141

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Drafted from the NBL:

Chris Anstey 1997
Ben Pepper 1997
Brad Newley 2007
Nathan Jawai 2008
Ater Majok 2011

Signed from the NBL:

Andrew Gaze 1993/94 & 1998/99
Shane Heal 1996/97 & 2003/04
Mark Bradtke 1996-97


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Anonymous
Last year
15:47 3 Mar 16

Reply #581341

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Let's face it many of the average local players in the NBL of today are quite dour. LK obviously wants players 1 through to at least 6 or 7 to be superstars. I like it.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:48 3 Mar 16

Reply #581342

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Also no salary cap/three imports = easier for Melb Utd to splash the cash and win a championship.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:39 3 Mar 16

Reply #581361

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Will be hard when Perf has 5 or 6 sepos


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Anonymous
Last year
17:49 3 Mar 16

Reply #581375

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

When are all these changes going to be confirmed, GF finished by Sunday night then got two weeks to sign your players or release them, be good to no what's happening.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:26 3 Mar 16

Reply #581381

re: Andrew Gaze expects Aussie NBL players to improve

Be hard to no until its all ova.


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