Anonymous
Years ago

New Zealand Breakers - 2016/17

What do people think? have we seen the end of the dynasty? or can Henare carry it on?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Cedric Jackson is to ball dominante and dosent get his teammates involved enough. They need more ball movement and firepower off the bench.

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Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Not end of a dynasty yet. Only three players contracted, but Vukona, Abercrombie, and Webster are those three if I remember the tweet correctly, and that is a very strong start.

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Dazz  
Years ago

Not really sure what the teams will look like next season if all the mooted changes are made.
But as it stands, I think NZ still have an exceptional core group. Vukona is really the only one on the wrong side of 35, and yet he is such a legend and such a competitor that I'm sure he's got a couple of good years left in him.

Cedric had (by his standards) an unsettled year, but remains one of the elite PGs in the league. Not sure how the laws are in NZ, but he might be in line for naturalisation soonish?

Be interesting to see if they go for another Ibekwe / Jackson type? Or maybe someone who's a higher-scoring 4/5 type...

If the system remains unchanged, I think what may hinder NZ under the PPR system is the "breaks" that Vukona, Cedric, and Webster took away from the team. That's another 6 points gone begging there.
Their 7 core players could absorb 54~57 points. That might allow them to bring in another import if they can rely on players like Ili, Mcdonald, or Bartlett to fill out the bench.

(Or everything could change with proposed new rules...)

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paul  
Years ago

"Cedric Jackson is to ball dominante and dosent get his teammates involved enough."

He's only the first player to lead the NBL in assists in his first four seasons! He does have his moments where he gets caught up one-on-one, but overall he is one of the greats at getting his teammates shots and making them better.

Reply #582078 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

A great shot of common sense there, Paul... Later in the season Cedric DID seem to force things too much, but his 3pt shot was dropping and from what I've seen, that is a pretty strong drug that when it DOES stop dropping, especially for someone who isn't used to it dropping, it could be a hard thing to kick... Plus throw in a bit of team turmoil and Webster being inconsistent, I think we can overlook any sort of desire to try to take things over himself...

Were there rumours that Cedric might be following Lemanis to BrisVegas? Can any of our NZ brethren confirm any stronger relationships between Lemanis or Vickerman?

Otherwise, you'd think that with the big three locked in (did Webster honour his initial 3yr deal upon returning from the NBA?), Pledger would be a lock and then all the role players will fall into line, if they're wanted...

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Isaac  
Years ago

Dazz,

Vukona is really the only one on the wrong side of 35
Mika is 33. Isn't that the "right" side of 35?

Reply #582086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Good comment by dazz about whether the breakers need more of a scoring 4/5. Cedric isn't really a natural scorer, which leaves a lot in the hands of Webster and abercrombie who primarily shoot long jumpers. When you play a good defensive team like Perth that's how you end up scoring 52 in a grand final. Obviously tired legs may have been a factor in missing open shots but at least Perth have players you can throw the ball to in the post to initiate offense. Alternatively they have a guy like wagstaff who can stretch and space the floor whereas vukona, pledger and Charles Jackson can't shoot it. Maybe a shooting/scoring big man opens up the lanes more for Cedric. Think Gary Wilkinson days

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paul  
Years ago

With Pledger back to full fitness they could afford to go with a stretch five backing him up. Rob Loe would be the obvious choice for that role.

Pledger/Loe
Vukona/Wesley
Abercrombie/Te Rangi
Webster/???
Jackson/Ili

That team will be very hard to beat, as they always are. The mid-season slump cost them any chance at HCA this season, and that's the difference between a title and runners up.

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LV  
Years ago

Defensively, Charles Jackson was a beast for the Breakers this year. Foul prone yes, but a strong inside presence nonetheless.

But they have an issue on offense, with Vukona not looking for his mid range shot often enough. That gives them 3 of 4 bigs without much range. Perhaps it's worth looking at a Gary Wilkinson/Seth Scott/Adam Ballinger type big for next season.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

How's the chemistry on this team though, Paul?

Easy to write-off that mid-season slump as an aberration, but it was fairly extensive and deep slump, which I understand was chemistry related. Can a new coach help repair that or do they need more fresh blood?

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Perth Wilburs  
Years ago

Cedric won't be with NZ next year. He'll move to another team or back to America.

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mystro  
Years ago

That 7 game win streak was fairly solid though.....Lost the one that really mattered unfortunately but Perth deserve a lot of credit for that.

Reply #582140 | Report this post


mystro  
Years ago

I think you'll find Cedric will be back and very pissed off he didn't win another title.

Reply #582141 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I don't think there'll be many changes either, unless Webster or Abercrombie get a big offer from OS, but history and the fact theyve both got bubs suggests it would have to be a great offer. I think Jackson will be back to take vengeance on those who gave him no love in the awards voting!

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james  
Years ago

They need a big who can shoot from the perimeter or atleast has a solid mid-range game to stretch the bigs out. Perth just knew that MV,CJ and Pledger were never going to be a threat from the perimeter or the mid-range game so they just packed the paint and took out any driving lane for their guards and forced them into a jump shooting team.


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Dazz  
Years ago

Oops.
Not sure how that happened, I meant "wrong side of 30"
Anyway my point was meant to be that there core players aren't that old (I think Cedric is just 30?)
and whilst Vukona may be the veteran, its got a lot of good basketball left.

I don't profess any detailed knowledge of the Breakers. It seems to be that in recent seasons they have gone for a similar type of player in Ibekwe and Jackson. And with Pledger fit, it seems a bit of a redundancy. Jackson was impressive in some ways, but his scoring seemed more opportunistic.
Its no coincidence that Pledger averaged 19 minutes & Jackson 20. That's why I thought about a 4/5 who could play some minutes alongside Pledger. Similar I suppose to the role Wilkinson played for them , and perhaps a bit like Warrick has played for MU.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Surely Cedric won't be there if Webster returns. Hell I wouldn't be anyways, not when I can get a gig anywhere else.

Reply #582227 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wasn't the Breakers slump blamed upon problems between a couple of players and a wife/girlfriend? If that is the case, one of them will have to go and it won't be the wife/girlfriend.
A man may put an issue like that aside for a few weeks to get a job done, but not for a year.

Reply #582231 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

IIRC Webster's wife left him, his form slumped, and rumours circulated.
There was a weird article which spoke about "betrayal" between Webster & Cedric.
What wasn't clear was whether it was talking about Webster not pulling his weight, or one or the other had been diddling the other's better half.

Have no idea what the truth or otherwise is, so will just have to wait and see.

Reply #582257 | Report this post


mystro  
Years ago

I would love to see a team of:

Ced Jackson/ Shea Ili
Corey Webster / Import / Bartlett (11th man)
Tom Abercrombie / Kirk Penney
Mika Vukona / Tai Wesley
Alex Pledger / Charles Jackson

Obviously it is unlikely that Kirk Penney will be back and playing a backup role and then that spot is likely to be occupied by Reuben TeRangi and if Charles Jackson isn't able to be retained I would love to see Rob Loe take that spot to stretch the floor. The third import would likely be a 2/3.
With the rosters being stretched to 11 the Breakers can hopefully keep Bartlett.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Mystro, you're Breakers are going to need to improve their current team to compete with Perth because as it stands Perth are better .

Reply #582325 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Let us just get it straight. There is nothing in the so called story about " problems between a couple of players and a wife/girlfriend?" Nobody in the team got involved with somebody's partner.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Do people really believe those ridiculous rumours?

Anyway, Ced Jackson said after the final that he definitely wants to come back.

Reply #582331 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What's so rediculous about the idea that Webster got caught with jacksons missus and consequently websters girl left him? To say that couldn't happen, potentially, or something like that, is like saying Carey never got caught sleeping with Anthony Stevens wife. Not sure what the case is it their is any but affairs happen and people do get caught.

Reply #582367 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Mystro,
from what I have read, the 11th man proposal is to allow teams to take a DP on the road.

Do you think the breakers are best with a Charles Jackson type, or perhaps a 4/5 who could play some minutes alongside Pledger?

What type of player would you look for in your 3rd import?

Reply #582373 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Breakers need someone who can come on and score, weather it's a Torrey Craig type player or a pure SG. A stretch 4/5 would work but when Abercrombie and Webster are firing I'm not sure another shooter is required over some rim protection.

Hopefully Jawai will get even rounder in the offseason so he can only play 5/10 mins a game :)

Reply #582405 | Report this post


AngusH  
Years ago

I think a lot of teams will be after Craig this year.

Ced just didn't look right to me this season... He was a turnover waiting to happen when he got inside the key, and really tried to force a lot of tough passes - especially on the break, and NZ missed out on some easy hoops because he took the fancy pass over the simple one. I think the hot streak from 3 in the post season was almost a curse, changed the way he played in the Finals, and when his first couple didn't drop in game 3 he vanished.

Despite all that, I would love him in Sydney...

Reply #582409 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Interesting.
Like many, I was surprised that Vickerman didn't give Bartlett more minutes in the finals, I thought he could have added a couple of threes, especially when Cedric was struggling. But perhaps he's just not a big-game player?

I would imagine that when Cedric is on his game, with Webster & Abercrombie, your perimeter shooting is sorted? With Bartlett adding something off the bench.

Craig I thought was better last season, but still a good player.

Will be interesting to see which way NZ goes.

Reply #582416 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

I think the Breakers did alright despite having such a thin bench. Guys like Te Rangi, McDonald & Bartlett need to be culled especially when Ili a DP is playing in crucial periods ahead of those three.

Reply #582419 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

TeRangi is only 21 I believe, he isn't going to be cut but needs to put in work to develop his offensive game more.
McDonald is redundant with Ili coming through and Bartlett will likely lose his spot to an import.
Part of the deal getting Jackson back was the the lure of naturalisation and playing international basketball. I can't see him leaving the Breakers now.

Reply #582433 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

If the Breakers want to waste a roster spot on Te Rangi a guy who shoots 29% from the field and 21% on 3pts and is a liability on the court that is their business but if they want to seriously challenge Perth next time I think they need more out of the Te Rangi/Bartlett/McDonald spots on the roster. Ili at least offers something.

Reply #582454 | Report this post


What if  
Years ago

Te Rangi is going nowhere else but staying at Breakers. He is part of the future of the team and will be a real worrier in years to come . McDonald was always just a one year contract, just in case Webster did not come back from NBA, and his work with Ili to speed up his development has been significant. The real question for Bartlett is whether he will get enough minutes with Webster in the team or he will have a better career playing somewhere else.

Reply #582463 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The rumours around the Breakers didn't involve any players wife.

Reply #582465 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

At least the Breakers are big on developing local talent. Te Rangi is still very young, younger than your average returning college player. Not saying he's a super-star, but will be interesting to see how he develops. Ili I think shows promise.
McDonald I assume was a stop-gap measure, I wouldn't expect him to stay around. If Te Rangi & Ili are taking spots 9 & 10, that still leaves plenty of scope for depth, especially if they use their import slots well.

Reply #582488 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

This may be a bit off-base, but I suspect NZ with Vukona and Wesley, may be where we were last year with Redhage and Wagstaff. The Veteran not really good enough to keep the starting 5 competitive, and bench-player taking minutes but not really up to replacing him?
Vukona is a dead set legend, but I'm not sure he's still up to the demands placed upon him, especially with the current lineup? That's why I thought replacing Jackson with something like a younger version of Hakim Warrick or even a Matty Knight type?

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koberulz  
Years ago

You didn't watch the semis, did you?

Reply #582524 | Report this post


mystro  
Years ago

Through the slump I was critical of everyone but especially Vukona. Come the games that mattered (well apart from the final) he was a Beast.
Wesley was pretty good when not injured/sick.

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Dazz  
Years ago

As I may have mentioned elsewhere, NZ is fortunate to have a couple of players, especially Vukona, who bring their A game come finals time (although I think G3 was a bit much even for him.) But doesn't that suggest that playing a few less minutes would be good for him?
Wesley's good. Of similar sized forwards he was probably close to the best in the league.
Fact is the existing NZ lineup made it to G3 on the GF, so we're only talking about tweaking the front court, and maybe covering for Mika getting a year older.

In the backcourt, maybe just some more depth on the bench? If you get Cedric naturalised, maybe pick up a 2nd-tier import combo guard for the bench?
Someone like Jett, I think he's in NZ already? :-)

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