Anonymous
Years ago

Anyone see the wildcats story on today tonight?

I only saw the trail end of it but they mentioned a potential second team from Fremantle. Vlahov was also interviewed and they showed the wildcats rap. Did anyone record this and can upload?

Topic #39128 | Report this topic


proud  
Years ago

Should be available on today tonight website tomorrow mate

Reply #582225 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A second WA team has been mentioned after nearly Wildcat championship.

Would require another wealthy person/group to back it and spend like the Wildcats spend.

Maybe the Dockers could own it ala Real Madrid.

Go the Cock Burners.

Reply #582228 | Report this post


Matthew  
Years ago

I think the competition really needs an even number of teams, I dont think it would the benefit the competition at all if there was an odd number.

Reply #582236 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Why?

Reply #582238 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

If you asked a consultant (say from America) to review the NBL and suggest strategies for expansion, they'd do a BIT of research, look at AFL, read a bit of local histories, and recommend "new" teams in Western Sydney, South-East Melbourne, and Fremantle.

Is their a natural and historical rivalry between Freo and Perth? Yes there is.
Unlike most capitals, Perth is not a port. Freo has always been a separate city, and the two have grown into each other. That it is now effectively just another municipality within the Perth Metro area, does not detract from its history or self-perception.

Is that enough to base a 2nd team on? In the circumstances that prevail, no I think not.
Basketball is a relatively modern sport, and relatively minor. It is not entrenched in the local culture like footy, or even soccer.

From the day the Eagles entered the VFL, prominent identities began agitating for a Freo team. Their angst was heightened by the fact that many of the Eagles greats were in fact "Freo boys." When the new Freo AFL licence was finally announced, the Eagles were still a relatively young club.
By contrast any new NBL team needs to fight 30+ years of entrenched Wildcats support & success, without any natural counter-culture to build on.

The Dockers have thrived because footy in WA is BIG business. Even when they sucked (which was often) they made money. They have also benefited because for some time now, if you wanted to be an Eagles member or Sponsor, you needed to go on a waiting list.
They will never attract the same level of support that the Eagles do, but with the money in AFL, they don't need to.
By contrast, the bare minimum another NBL team would need is their own personal squillionaire.

The AFL was more than happy to see Freo enter the league, because all the Melbourne clubs were bitching about the Eagles being a "State Team." (That must sound familiar to Breakers' fans.) Regardless of the draft that was introduced specifically to enable said Melbourne clubs to pillage the local talent.
Even now, the sponsorship and membership money available in Perth gives the local teams a huge advantage being spread over only two clubs.
In the NBL, nobody cares about local talent, and there isn't really enough sponsorship money to go around.

Reply #582241 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

Wildcats have the WA public locked up, 2nd team would be a non- competitive outfit.

Reply #582246 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

Dazz there's a thing called "tl;dr" which stands for "too long, didn't read".

Posters use this at the end of lengthy posts to sum up what their point is in one sentence.

I feel like you can benefit from using this internet technique.

An example For your post would be

tl;dr The NBL should get a consultant to look into the most apppropriate locations for expansion teams.

Reply #582249 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

RMQ, there's this thing called 'reading', which is a method of obtaining information by viewing written words and interpreting their meaning.

Posters use this to understand the points of others, and to learn things.

I feel like you can benefit from using this technique.

Reply #582261 | Report this post


Vic Wildcat  
Years ago

If two teams can't survive together here in Melbourne with a larger population, what makes anyone think it could work in Perth.

Reply #582266 | Report this post


Matthew  
Years ago

What Vic said above me. A Second team is really only ever going to come out of Sydney or Melbourne.

IF Perth somehow magically doubled its population overnight it might just have enough people for a second team to be worthwhile.

Reply #582271 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

New Zealand?

Reply #582273 | Report this post


Matthew  
Years ago

Bear: I guess that is also a possibility. I think it comes down to if the NBL feels that adding a second 'Foreign' team dilutes the 'National' Basketball League. (that or we just add NZ as a state to the Australian Commonwealth and get it over and done with already! :) )

Melbourne has 4.02 million people and NZ 4.4.

Perth has 1.9 million. Thats not enough for a second team.

Reply #582274 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Ha, I see the irony, the NBL doesn't stand for national Australian basketball league does it!?

Who really sees the Breakers as a foreign team in the NBL, really if this is the case people need to get over it. One of the great advantages of basketball over the AFL is that like the NRL it is international, even more so...

Reply #582276 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

KobeRulz - the problem with reading is that although someone may type of lot of words, it may not be worth reading, so why waste your time.

Specifically posters that post a lot of content frequently loose their appeal. It's like "oh here's another long post by so and so". It's really in their best interest to summarise their point so people may actually read their contribution.

Reply #582285 | Report this post


Baller#3  
Years ago

I think 2nd teams should only be entered if the market for the original is above 3 million. 1.5 million per team equates to around 0.66% of the population needing to attend the game for them to fill a 10,000 seat stadium.

After writing this I am now depressed when seeing that the attendance of kings games equates to roughly 0.08% of the population attending... Wow that's bad

Reply #582311 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

A second team in Perth could do no worse than say a Townsville of Sydney.

They could be a cheaper option and charge non-wildcat prices for games memberships and play out of a smaller venue like Challenge of basketball WA.

You would be surprised to see the types of influential people that would support a second non-wildcats club in Perth.

The price points would be the biggest factor. families that can't afford great tickets for the Wildcats could support the second club for much cheaper.


Reply #582314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This thread lost me once I got to what ever that essay from Dazz said. Man you got some time on your hands!

Reply #582339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"This thread lost me once I got to what ever that essay from Dazz said. Man you got some time on your hands!"

The same is true of many threads here lately.
Lots of waffle, but little substance.

Regarding a 2nd team in Perth remember the Cats found it impossible to make money at the previous stadium despite sell outs or near sell outs almost every game for the last few years there because the venue hire was so expensive. Even then Wildcats seats were easily the most expensive in the league despite it being a shit stadium and that place is the only other option besides the arena.
I think the pattern of Perths crowds at the new arena proves that heaps of people are interested in watching basketball but just not at crazy prices so the trick for a second team would be finding a way to make it affordable for average families. But how is that possible with no suitable venue?

Reply #582354 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

^ A filthy rich owner that needs a tax write off?

Reply #582358 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Ok, let me try and summarise it:
If you add a team from Wellington, and the Breakers become the "Auckland Breakers" there may over time be enough people decide that the Wellington team is "their" team, especially with access to home games.
I don't think that would work with Freo.

A "budget" team like Cairns might be one option, Challenge was a very awkward venue, but if they could arrange it then cheap seats at PA would be attractive.

Reply #582375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is population overrated seven deciding which market can support a second team? After all Perth has been outdrawing melbóurne and Sydney for years with a smaller population

Reply #582385 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

Geraldton if they had the facilities would be a good location for a team.

Bunbury also could be included in that discussion.

Road trips to Gero would be a pain though.

Reply #582395 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

No way would Geraldton be able to sustain a team even if it did have air routes over east and a proper stadium. Population is < 40k. Consider that the smallest NBL city atm is Cairns with 146k and they are just keeping their heads above water.
I don't really rate Bunbury's chances either, though I'd rank them comfortably above Gero.

Reply #582401 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Me thinks RMQ taking the piss...

Reply #582435 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Wildcats coach on SEN the other day said he thought the NBL would peak at about 12 teams and this number is the optimum. I tend to agree, no matter where they come from or how many changes we have in coming years we probably need to understand that there is a cap.

If we can see some consistency and stability in the NBL in coming years and build slowly, yes teams may fold, but eventually we should move towards our cap, be it 12 or 10 teams (I tend to think 10 for a few years then definately a 12 team competition, with two NZ teams).

Reply #582436 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

If they stay as they are for now we could see this:

Cairns
Townsville
Brisbane

Sydney
Illawarra

Auckland
Wellington

Perth

Adelaide

Melbourne
South Melbourne
Geelong

Reply #582437 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

:)

Reply #582438 | Report this post


Farrison Hord  
Years ago

For all you so called experts - i can tell you that a second team has been seriously discussed by a few business/corporate entities in the not too distant past & still remains a possibility.

There are a lot (& i emphasize ALOT) of logistics attached to it - but the preliminary agreement was that they would in fact be affiliated with the Fremantle Dockers....

Reply #582473 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

^makes sense as the Wildcats are noticably more "eagles" friendly.

A second Perth team can work - it just won't be an instant success.

Reply #582475 | Report this post


Anonymouse  
Years ago

As much as I would love to see it, I do not think a second team in Perth is viable now.
It would reduce Wildcats attendances. This could be dangerous as I was told they pay $100k per game for their venue.
A new franchise would take 5 to 10 years to build a supporter base that would see the team sustainable. It would just cost too much money.

Reply #582482 | Report this post


Farrison Hord  
Years ago

Disagree.

I believe there are a few disgruntled Wildcats members that would gladly jump ship & why would they care if the Cats numbers dwindle?
They would be in town to compete for town supremacy. Competition is always good for the consumer & the Widcats hand might even be forced to lower their ludicrous FIFO prices.

An affiliation with Fremantle (who have money) along with strong corporate support, could/would make them more than financially viable.

It ticks the boxes, its just up to people to put their money where their mouth is.

Reply #582486 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Yeah, nice theory Bro...

Fremantle Dockers are owned and controlled, lock stock & barrel, by the WAFC. They milk every cent they can from their two AFL clubs to fund footy in WA.
They are already pissed that they will not have management rights to the new stadium (as they do with Subi.)
They are also in the process of spending a lot of money on Freo's new "home" (as are their other cash-cow the Eagles.)
They won't be putting one cent towards a new Basketball team.

But as I've said, all you need to find is your own squillionaire. Maybe someone like Twiggy?

Reply #582489 | Report this post


Farrison Hord  
Years ago

lmao.

The preliminary discussions have been had, bro

Reply #582490 | Report this post


Anonymouse  
Years ago

I'm sure the disgruntled members wouldn't give a rats about the Wildcats, but the issue is how to have two financially viable teams. We wouldn't want Perth to have two Townsville like budgets.
Where are the next 10,000 supporters going to appear from. We can't get 100 to SBL games and I'm sure there not 10,000 people not attending Wildcats games because they are waiting for the new Freo team to materialize. You can't draw the comparison with footy and the advent of Freo, as the supporter base in not on the same planet size wise.

Reply #582491 | Report this post


I'd go to both teams' games if there was a second WA team. I'm sure many others would (not 10,000 though).

Reply #582492 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

With the cost of Wildcats tickets what it is, I'm not sure going to both would be feasible for most people.

Although the introduction of a second team might lead to a drop in prices.

Reply #582493 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Thing is that post-boom there is LESS money in Perth, and the Cats are already scrambling to compensate.
I'm pretty sure memberships were down this year.

We have a great venue in Perth Arena, but unfortunately we have to pay for it.

Paying members aren't going to desert the Cats just cos there's a new team, nor are they going to do it just to save a few bucks. I'm sure a new team, with substantially cheaper memberships would attract people, but how viable is that? HBF stadium won't work, and could they make Perth Arena profitable if they don't charge enough?

Reply #582494 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Canberra, Geelong, Hobart need teams

Reply #582495 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

Dazz- just because you think people won't leave their memberships for a cheaper alternative doesn't mean they won't.

If a family of four membership for the wildcats cost $1000 a season, but only $500 for the second team, I think many would jump ship.

Competition breeds success.

I'd love for the Wildcats to stay being the giant powerhouse, but for there also to be a smaller underdog club in WA.

There's two options for a second WA club.

The wildcats have shown their target market of families, and not basketball fans has worked.

A second club could also target families and offer lower prices. Or they could try and target basketball fans and see how that works.

Reply #582499 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Sorry id I wasn't clear. I said a "few" dollars.
As I said "substantially" cheaper memberships (as you suggest) would certainly be attractive, but would it be viable?

I think memberships fell this year, and I would not be surprised to see the Cats try to contain prices to boost memberships. But could a cut-price team really make a go of it at Perth Arena?
Or would they be forced out to HBF? Even at their prices the Cats struggled there. I think it would reinforce their status as a 2rd-rate team.

Trying to appeal to those who regard themselves as "Basketball Purists" (ie those people who are never happy and bitch about everything) is a non-starter. You'd never find enough people prepared to part with enough money.

A shared-ownership model would be intriguing, allowing people to buy shares and hence feel they have a long-term stake in the team. But again I feel you would still need a sugar-daddy with deep pockets.

And I still don't think "Freo" is the right basis for a Basketball team. Maybe something with a broader SoR appeal?

Still better of waiting to see if a 2nd Melbourne team can be made to work, and see if that flourishes.

Reply #582507 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

But Melbourne has had mildly successful teams in the past. Unfortunately things didn't go their way, but it is still the biggest sporting market in Australia and Victoria should see itself way ahead of WA in terms of basketball.

No offense to those in WA of course, just the way it is based on basketball terms...

Reply #582517 | Report this post


proud  
Years ago

I think that what's needed is a Brisbane Broncos/South Sydney Rabbitohs or Collingwood Magpies/Richmond Tigers/Fremantle Dockers affiliation to work for it seem like a good idea to own an NBL team.

If those teams above are on $million contracts with sponsors to be on their jersey from March to September and they can get them to fork up more money to be out there from October to March as well then you have the potential to make enough from altered deal to pay for most of the operating costs of running an NBL team and it could be a good way for office types to prove themselves before getting chance to play with the big boys within the AFL/NRL teams board rooms.

Reply #582726 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Fremantle Sharks? Freo Giants?

Reply #582727 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No.

Reply #582729 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

For the sake of argument, without rehashing the arguments above,
what are some suggested locations, names, and colours for a 2nd WA team?

One option would be to base a team in the burgeoning Northern suburbs, with their home base at the Joondalup Arena. (Albeit playing NBL games at PA.)
So "Joondalup Giants"

Or something South of the River:
South-Metro Lakers
Canning Sharks
Fremantle Dolphins

Reply #582730 | Report this post


Anonymouse  
Years ago

What about the Point Peron Penguins. Does that sound piss weak enough?
And God spare us another team with the Joondalup name it - just typing it makes me want to pewk.

Reply #582738 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

what?
and you spelled puke wrong, puke.

Reply #582765 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Canning cougars

Reply #582767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Kalgoorlie/Geraldton/Bunbury Kalgerbuns

Reply #582768 | Report this post




 

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