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Pointybits
Last year

#39643

Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Ian Stacker's web questions the appointment of Brendan Joyce to Opals Coach. Frankly Ian hits the nail on the head and it is certainly worth a look.

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imhungry4444
Last year
12:25 19 Jul 16

Reply #591763

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

http://www.allstarcoaching.com.au/#!Selection-issues-continue-to-haunt-Opals/cn168/578c11cf0cf2779eabeeca28


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D4444
Last year
12:45 19 Jul 16

Reply #591766

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

He certainly makes a very valid point.


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Anonymous
Last year
13:28 19 Jul 16

Reply #591774

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Good read, He doesn't say anything outrageous. Just merely voices what many people are wondering. Heat is on Joyce for the Olympics thats for sure!


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Caps Fan
Last year
13:32 19 Jul 16

Reply #591775

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Very interesting, only BA could appoint a head coach and approve two assistant coaches for the often ranked no 2 women's team in the world, while running (?) a previously well regarded senior womens pro league, and finally end up with a coaching panel that ( minus one of four members) totally combined had coached absolutely zero WNBL teams, Zero national junior or senior womens teams, and probably seen only a few more.

And to do so on the basis of a residential postcode.

its sad, but only people who have actually attended a BA Board meeting in the last 15 years could really appreciate how totally non-shocking this actually is.


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getonboard
Last year
13:41 19 Jul 16

Reply #591777

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

cannot argue with the points made by Stacker


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Anonymous
Last year
13:46 19 Jul 16

Reply #591780

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

I guarantee Choco has blown up at this somewhere! He would be filthy! Great stuff haha and like everyone has said, he poses some very interesting questions and the only answer seems to be a gold medal game.


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Duke Fan
Last year
14:33 19 Jul 16

Reply #591784

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

"questionable selections of playing personal"

Unintentionally funny!


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Anonymous
Last year
18:18 19 Jul 16

Reply #591801

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Spot on - time to delivery Joyce or hit the unemployment line!


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Hoopie
Last year
18:41 19 Jul 16

Reply #591803

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Wow. Can we hope that if the Opals underwhelm then heads will roll at BA?


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Anonymous
Last year
19:11 19 Jul 16

Reply #591804

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

BA have a lot to answer for in so many areas. Seabl is a joke. WNBL basket case and the list goes on.


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Hoopie
Last year
19:16 19 Jul 16

Reply #591806

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

And turning down a coach as good as Brian Agler? Jeez, I want to cry


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Anonymous
Last year
19:34 19 Jul 16

Reply #591809

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

No doubt BA are hopeless, as are the state bodies, as are the rep clubs, as are the domestic clubs.

So, in the last two weeks Stacker has made some good points about the COE, and now the Opals.

But what is his agenda. He was part of this messed up system, thrived on it, and now suddenly speaks up. What is his motivation? I he attempting to re-write history?

I have heard he is an Interesting unit if you check his background- speak to the young women (girls) he coached back in the Nunawading days.


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Caps Fan
Last year
20:04 19 Jul 16

Reply #591811

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Yes and Stacker just posts anonymously and pushes filthy gossip about others and just sounds like a bitter troll - no - wait - He doesn't :)




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Not Anonymous :)
Last year
20:11 19 Jul 16

Reply #591812

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

And "Anonymous" I didn't know you were back on the forum , or that it was actually you without your usual "Hiyas" . How are the new neighbours treating you ?


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Anonymous
Last year
20:27 19 Jul 16

Reply #591816

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

I think Ian is airing opinions that lots of people discuss privately which is great - but the the why now question is very valid.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:18 19 Jul 16

Reply #591819

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Stacker has certainly said what most think lol


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Hoopie
Last year
14:08 20 Jul 16

Reply #591837

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Thinking about the 'why now?' question.

I'm sure Ian is patriotic enough to want the Opals to do well.

Even if they do, I'm assuming he still wants to highlight BA's incompetence in the selection process. Success in Rio doesn't suddenly make everything all good.

If they do badly, then it will be easy for BA to hide their part and to point the finger solely at Joyce and the players. Joyce will probably be told to publicly fall on his sword if he wants another chance sometime; pointing the finger at BA will basically be coaching suicide.

The key thing as I see it is that Ian is highlighting the problems with BA politics and processes, regardless of the final results. And he's not feeling very positive about the likely result, no matter how hard the girls try. A poor showing is likely to mean major funding cuts for basketball, which Ian has been a passionate supporter of for years. None of us wants to see that!


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Rhea 83
Last year
16:27 21 Jul 16

Reply #591940

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Looks like Stacker hasnt got over his grudge with Joyce defeating him for that NBL Championship when Joyce coached the hawks against the Crocs . I dont understand the ? mark on Joyce, he won bronze at Worlds with a depleted squad, he has been head of COE in Canberra and has overseen the style and play that has seen the girls U17 squad became world champions and the u19 bronze .... Ref selection for team with Bat girl, she plays 5 position, Tolo and Liz are better ... Ref Bishop well she did nothing last season and struggles in WNBA she has been injury prone as well with blood clots


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Anonymous
Last year
22:59 21 Jul 16

Reply #591972

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/brendan-joyce-backs-opals-team-for-rio-as-critics-query-selections-for-olympic-games/news-story/7ff36ef2da4d5fa367718d4bb719a56b


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Anonymous
Last year
15:25 22 Jul 16

Reply #592017

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

How does Joyce keep getting gigs. He blew up at Hawks & Blaze with his nepotism and Heal love. BA obviously don't follow NBL.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:29 22 Jul 16

Reply #592019

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Good reference by Stacker on other BA appointments including Keneally. They love hiring DUDS.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:48 22 Jul 16

Reply #592030

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Lavey must be Joyce's long lost daughter.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:18 22 Jul 16

Reply #592050

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Looks like Stacker hasnt got over his grudge with Joyce defeating him for that NBL Championship when Joyce coached the hawks against the Crocs . I dont understand the ? mark on Joyce, he won bronze at Worlds with a depleted squad, he has been head of COE in Canberra and has overseen the style and play that has seen the girls U17 squad became world champions and the u19 bronze .... Ref selection for team with Bat girl, she plays 5 position, Tolo and Liz are better ... Ref Bishop well she did nothing last season and struggles in WNBA she has been injury prone as well with blood clots

hate to burst your bubble but Paul Gorris is the one who trained those girls up not Joyce, the UN19 girls should have got silver , and hes certainly not contributed to any 'development'position hes had in the three states that have had him, if anything his legacy from those years he actually had any influence on saw those states fall behind.
As for the bronze at worlds they were lucky to get that.
Suzy has proven time and time again shes an amazing player, to miss her out of this squad shows just how bad Joyce is. Nepotism strikes yet again.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:29 22 Jul 16

Reply #592051

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Which player is he related to?


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paul
Last year
19:45 22 Jul 16

Reply #592056

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

"Suzy has proven time and time again shes an amazing player, to miss her out of this squad shows just how bad Joyce is."

She's a 40% shooter in international basketball and has a worse than 1:2 assist-to-turnover ratio. That's hardly amazing.


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eyeshutopen
Last year
20:03 22 Jul 16

Reply #592059

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Paul, you shoot about 15% from the field when it comes to articles about Brendan Joyce although you are still allowed to post.

Burton cramps any sort of spacing in the half court the Opals may have although that is 100% fine as she rebounded well in junk time 2 years ago.

Joyce made a great call with Lavey although the Burton thing is an air ball just like a lot of the stuff on fiba.com.


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paul
Last year
20:27 22 Jul 16

Reply #592062

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Not really a strong rebuttal of the rather obvious point that Batkovic isn't an amazing international player eyesshutopen.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:16 22 Jul 16

Reply #592067

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Joyce taking credit for anything the COE does it a joke. Goriss and Seebohm are better women's coaches than Joyce.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:19 22 Jul 16

Reply #592068

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

The Paulo puff piece for Joyce backed by Cotter and Heal does little but to re-affirm their little boys club they've had going for years.


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paul
Last year
21:47 22 Jul 16

Reply #592069

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Another quality rebuttal!


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Anonymous
Last year
22:09 22 Jul 16

Reply #592070

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Paul Goriss deserves huge credit for the Sapphires gold medal. Tragedy he is no longer in charge at the COE.


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Anonymous
Last year
22:18 22 Jul 16

Reply #592071

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

By the way, if you were the parent of a female baller, and you wanted a scale of how you would asses potential coaches for your young daughter, in my personal experience and opinion it would be a 4 point scale something like this, where Goriss would be aspirational, and the other end of the scale would be Heal.

1 Goriss
2 Joyce
3 Stacker
4 Heal

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.


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Anonymous
Last year
22:28 22 Jul 16

Reply #592073

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Burton is a proven liability on offense and a net neutral player defense at best against average opponents. If you're here to argue FG%, Burton shot 2 of 11 in her last 3 games at the world champs. If you're here to argue abut Joyce's acumen with the women's game over Gory or Shannon's, do feel free to share what he was doing with the women's game prior to his miraculous appointment with the Opals.

Or, like Joyce does, do tell us how we don't understand the game. Tell us what an amazing lane runner Burton is.


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paul
Last year
22:38 22 Jul 16

Reply #592074

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

No, what I'll tell you is Batkovic can't play PF in Joyce's system, so she wasn't competing with Burton for a spot unless the Opals changed their game plan.

Should Batkovic have been picked over one of Cambage, Tolo or George to play C? Maybe.

In terms of PF, the Hodges-Burton combo were competing with a limited field. Bishop is a poor defender internationally and wouldn't be a scoring target ahead of Cambage, Taylor and Phillips.

Is Joyce right to pick a team to fit his system rather than picking the best individual offensive talent and finding a system to suit them? We'll know in a few weeks.


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Titan 34
Last year
23:24 22 Jul 16

Reply #592076

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Paul, no rebuttal needed. It's obvious were your alliances are or you wouldn't be quoting just some random figures from the recent opals European tour without presenting all the facts.

At the end of the day you're welcome to your opinion just as the rest of us are to ours. No amount of your support for Joyce or his attempt to whitewash his biased decision will change my mind about him. In my opinion, he based his selections on favouritism! End of Story.

Telling us that we know nothing about the game and only he can see what value a player brings is rediculous and only confirms my opinion.

An example of trying to explain away his decision - Burton may not have done well in WNBL but is great on international scene - really? if she's that good internationally why are these internationals not breaking down doors trying to sign her up?

It's not even about what happens at Rio, its about what Joyce has done and how he has done it!
Another great write up by Boti Nagy http://botinagy.com/blog/father-knows-best/


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Anonymous
Last year
23:57 22 Jul 16

Reply #592077

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

^absolutely, Joyce is about Joyce and nothing else.
No one can work or wants to work with him, and how someone who had never had any dealings with women's basketball, or even showed any interest in it can manage to end up the head coach of our women's national team and program is just ridiculous.


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Luuuc
Last year
00:00 23 Jul 16

Reply #592078

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Possibly the first time I've seen A:TO ratio used to justify the non-selection of a post player.
Worse than 1:2? Yikes. That puts her in the same territory as known wastes of space like Liz Cambage and Lauren Jackson.
Talk about a desperation stat to cherry pick.
At the same time, I'm actually no big fan of Batkovic internationally either, I have to admit. Like Bishop, she can beat up on WNBL opponents but is far less effective once the standard of opponents increases. She also blows layups at an embarrassing rate for a big.

It was pretty clear to me once there was only a handful of cuts left to make that the remaining squad was too top-heavy and one of Batkovic, George & Tolo had to miss out. The positive I take from it all is that Tolo was deemed healthy enough to secure her spot.


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paul
Last year
00:23 23 Jul 16

Reply #592079

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

I pointed out she shoots at 40% and doesn't create for others in response to someone suggesting she was amazing, not to justify non-selection Luuuuc, sad to see you provide such a thoughtless response.

Have I said anywhere that Batkovic shouldn't be selected? The point of my article is she wasn't in competition with Burton, she is a C in the Opals' current system and was hence competing with Cambage, Tolo and George.

If you think Joyce should change the system to fit the players (ie play bigger, slower PFs) make the case for it. Remember doing that didn't work in 2010 or 2012.

What's sad about this whole discussion is no one presents any sort of international basketball analysis to support their argument.

My position is what Joyce has done has worked well so far and he has the right to keep following that recipe. He will live and die by the results, just as previous coaches have.


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paul
Last year
00:25 23 Jul 16

Reply #592080

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

"Paul, no rebuttal needed. It's obvious were your alliances are or you wouldn't be quoting just some random figures from the recent opals European tour without presenting all the facts."

What stats from the recent tour did I quote Titan? I don't believe I have used any.


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Luuuc
Last year
01:24 23 Jul 16

Reply #592083

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Clearly Lauren Jackson was not an amazing player either, given her A:TO record in Olympic competition. Hell, it's a wonder she ever got another invite after her near 1:3 ratio in Athens. Penny Taylor among the other notoriously non-amazing players of that year. But forget them. It is of course Suzy's job to "create for others", not theirs.

Seriously, you're calling *my* post thoughtless?
LOL. I was merely pointing out that you had for some reason cherry-picked a random irrelevant stat to include in your post. The thoughtless thing for me to have done would have been to let it slide.


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Anonymous
Last year
02:45 23 Jul 16

Reply #592087

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

How has it worked so far..?...what outstanding success has Joyce had.?.....the tournaments they have played they have not gone out and slaughtered all opponents, and those opponents not one have been a full strength team, yes perhaps the opals have not been either, but you cannot hang Joyce's hat on any such success as yet.


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paul
Last year
07:28 23 Jul 16

Reply #592093

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

They actually had a larger average winning margin than the USA at the WCs, winning by an average of just under 30. There wasn't a single result in single figures. So far the only tournament game the Opals have lost under Joyyce has been to the USA.

Yes the biggest tests are to come in Rio, but the style they are playing has been very successful to date.


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paul
Last year
07:32 23 Jul 16

Reply #592094

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Thoughtless Luuuc, because you immediately assumed I was using that to justify non-selection, when I have not said she shouldn't be picked. You read what you wanted to read based on what you thought I was arguing.

All I pointed out was Batkovic isn't an amazing international player, she's been a solid reserve, and there's certainly nothing wrong with being that.

For the record, Jackson averaged 23p at 54% in Athens to Suzy's 7p at 42%. They played very different roles on the team, making comparisons between the two largely irrelevant. It's like comparing Jerome Randle and Brendan Teys.



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Lorenzo
Last year
09:25 23 Jul 16

Reply #592096

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

I think Boti summed it all up.
We who love the game accept his choices but are disappointed in the way Suzie was led along and not sent off with dignity.
Someone of her stature and with her past service to Australian basketball deserved better.
POOR FORM and Brendan should not have let it happen.
His lack of understanding of the outrage is a product of his arrogance.


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Just Very Old
Last year
11:48 23 Jul 16

Reply #592097

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

actually this from Boti says quite a bit re FOJ as well
"To infer Ian Stacker, Australia's 22-and-under gold medal winning coach from that FIBA World Championship and a 10-year NBL veteran, or Hall of Fame bound Michele Timms, past Opals captains such as Lauren Jackson and Robyn Maher - all among those team selection critics - might "think they understand the game but they don’t" only does Joyce a disservice."

http://www.botinagy.com/blog/father-knows-best/

I wonder how many get the "father knows best" shot ?

I hope the team does very well, but all this smacks of the same old - same old - I remember talking with Sporn in the years that it seemed she would never be selected by Robbie "I know best" Cadee. It took a monumental failure for BA to finally let Maher be appointed.


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paul
Last year
12:33 23 Jul 16

Reply #592098

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

"The team Joyce has taken to represent us all is the one he wants and recalling the manner in which his young team dismantled everyone at the 2014 FIBA World Championship in Turkey and how much fun they were to watch, reinforces he has every right to choose pieces that best fit his style.

We're all banking on a similar performance in Rio."

I thought this bit from Boti summed it up best. The results will determine Joyce's fate and how he is judged as an Opals coach, his job and Lemanis' are to produce Olympic results, so now we get to see if all the prep work they have done was on the right track.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:56 23 Jul 16

Reply #592100

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

How do we know Joyce was making that comment in regards to Stacker? He was probably talking about Boti when he said they "think they understand the game but they don't."


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Anonymous
Last year
14:45 23 Jul 16

Reply #592105

re: Stackers Thoughts on Joyce's Opals Role

Maybe he was talking about Timms, or Jackson, or Maher or some other such person that doesnt understand women's basketball.


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