Train
Years ago

Sydney Kings Import Situation

So far the Kings are yet to sign an import. Any rumours or insights as to who they might go after. Is there any chance Beal could end up there?

Looks like the 5 spot is pretty much covered. Will Childress Return?
Very quiet on the purple front recently.

Topic #39706 | Report this topic


Watto  
Years ago

Is Marcus Thornton coming back?

Reply #593020 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

Oh god , i hope not!!

Kings have hit bad with Kendrick Perry and Marcus Thornton.

Reply #593021 | Report this post


RMQ  
Years ago

What positions do the kings need to fill?

Reply #593022 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think they need an offensive 2-3 and a defensive 3-4 to give their roster some versatility.

Reply #593024 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

well according to picknroll there is ;

Jason Cadee/ ???
Kevin Lisch/ ??
Brad Newley/ ??
Tom Garlep / Jerome Hill
Julian Khazzouh/Alex Maric

So they need an import PG, import SG and import SF plus an 11th man.

Reply #593025 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

Unless Lisch spends time at the PG then there is no chance for Beal on any NBL team this year.

There are still rumours about Childress returning but I don't see that happening.

Reply #593026 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

I read somewhere Gaze has been talking to Childress to try and coax him back but seems unlikely given the money they would've already spent on Lisch & Newley and they've been trialling SEABL import Garrett Jackson who filled in as a brief injury replacement with Melb Utd last season.

Reply #593029 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

It's Jeromie, not Jerome (different player by that name.)

I wonder if, looking at that Roster, there are plans to have Kazz play more of a 4, with Maric in the 5?
("Similar" to what Perth did with Knight last season.)

Either way, you'd have to figure that signing a gun import PG is their top priority?
(Yes sure, Lisch could run the point, and you could even move Newley to SG, but why bother when you still need to fill the gaps.)
Sure, Beal could play PG, and do it well, no question. But I don't see any big attraction there for the Kings. I tend to think they'd want someone more like a Wilbekin type?

Beyond that, and keeping in mind the bench cap, maybe a young cheap swingman/ wing-man to come off the bench. With such an abundance of "Aussie" talent, they may keep the 3rd slot as insurance, and fill the remaining bench with locals. Must still be a couple of guys looking for a gig?

What's Vandenberg doing? If they plan to start Kazz and Maric, he'd be a handy option to hold down one end of the bench (and presumably cheap.)

Reply #593030 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

Dazz,

Pretty sure Maric has been signed as an injury replacement for Khazzouh who is expected to still be out for possibly the first month of the season. Whether they keep Maric on after Khazzouh comes back not sure.

Reply #593031 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think Cadee and Lisch will cover the PG duties, and if that's the case they'll probably be looking more for a scoring wing with the guard import spot, but time will tell I suppose.

Reply #593034 | Report this post


Smith  
Years ago

Cadee and Khazzouh have both said Lisch will run the point and the office's primary focus is a flat out scorer - like Ebi in his prime.

Don't know where people are getting their information regarding Maric, he's there to stay regardless of khazzouh's health.

I'd say they'll plug the majority of their moola into a import SG and invest the remainder into another 3/4 - like Jackson.

Reply #593038 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Can't Dazz simply clog up perth topics only?

Reply #593042 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dazz is definitely having a hell of an offseason. Imagine if they could coax Childress back, yikes they would have options! Probably not the dumbest idea to slow down the recruiting and see who might be desperate for a gig at the las minute and get talent for less $. They pulled the trigger early and effectively already so gives them breathing space.

Reply #593048 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

Aussie PGs don't really exist in the NBL.

Reply #593053 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Smith pretty much covered it spot on... I think JvG or Gaze I think it was mentioned that once imports haven't been picked up in Europe, there's a chance to get better talent, but that's leaving their run a bit late...

Childress is still on their list, but as mentioned, not very realistic... Need a strong defender/rebounder at the import 4 spot, as while Maric is more of an inside talent, I don't know how Jules or he will go defending any of the top level 4s in the league...

Definitely need a potent scorer at the 2 spot though and a solid back up 3, Prewster is still training/trialling as well from memory? He'd be servicable after a strong NZBNL season...

I'd be concerned with Gazey being over in Rio if we didn't have JvG in charge and Vickerman still here... lots of talent making the right decisions so far, so while I'd rather have our imports locked in now and training with the team like other teams have, i will save any distress for a few more weeks...

Reply #593057 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Aussie PGs don't really exist in the NBL."

Except in Brisbane, Illawarra, Sydney and Perth. In fact, it looks as if only three teams will start import PGs this season.

Since 2001 the only starting import PG to win a title is Cedric Jackson (Kevin Braswell won one coming off the bench).

Reply #593058 | Report this post


Smith  
Years ago

Even as a Hawks fan I'd love to see Chill back with this group, difficult to see it coming to fruition but it would be legit. In saying that, I think they'll land a cracker of a SG. Vickerman has a good eye for imports.

Reply #593061 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Boti reports that the Kings are interested in Beal, as are the Bullets. Started a separate topic about this rumour.

Reply #593065 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Since 2001 the only starting import PG to win a title is Cedric Jackson (Kevin Braswell won one coming off the bench).
Since 2010, only three starting point guards have won titles, period, with Jackson accounting for 3/7. So that statistic is a little misleading when covering more recent years.

Reply #593067 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Really doubt somebody of Maric's calibre would come back to Australia as a one month injury replacement.

Regarding their Import Situation, I was wondering if they actually have that many slots to fill?

My understanding of the rules was that once you sign more than one Marquee local, (allowed upto four) it takes away from your import slots.
So how many of their big name Aussies would have been signed as Marquees?

They obviously need at least one, to fill the guard spot. (Whether its a PG, SG, or combo like Beal.)
But probably not all 3.

Reply #593073 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

But not misleading when looking at the past 15 years as stated Kobz, when nine different starting PGs have won titles with only one being an import. Add that to only half the starting PGs last season being American and probably less than half this coming season and I think the original statement is well and truly off the mark.

Reply #593078 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Why is 15 years a better sample than 7? It's a different league now compared to then. That includes guys like Maher and Heal, who'd be playing overseas these days.

Reply #593086 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The statement was "Aussie PGs don't really exist in the NBL." and both examples from recent times and over a longer period show that to be plain wrong.

Reply #593089 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

On a different note, Heal did play OS, a lot, and Maher could have but chose not to apart from a small stint. Unlikely anything would be different today.

Reply #593090 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Far be it for me to stick up for Koba-Klutz...
But I don't see where you get the statement "only half the starting PGs last season being American"?
Randle, Holt, Jackson, Jett, Starks, and Thornton were all American and you could even argue that Lisch ran the point more than Martin.

As for this season,
Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, NZ, and Cairns will all use Americans. That's still more than half.

Obviously the standout Aussie PG is Damo, but the reality is that most teams couldn't carry him because of his lack of scoring, so he really is exceptional.

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Marcus Camby  
Years ago

@Dazz...

Randle...it could be argued Gibbo was the PG.
Holt OK.
Cedric OK.
Jett...Norton was the PG.
Starks OK.
Thornton...didn't Cadee play PG? Thornton was so poor, no one knew what he played.
Lisch ran point because of injuries to Martin (and Demos). Agent 97 and Martin were PGs.

That looks like 4 locals and 4 imports.




Reply #593092 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

4 imports and 4 aussies is still disproportionately high for a league where only 20% of the players are imports

Reply #593093 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

The statement was "Aussie PGs don't really exist in the NBL." and both examples from recent times and over a longer period show that to be plain wrong.
Well, I'd also be disinclined to truly count D-Mac as an Aussie, but in any event I'm not necessarily arguing against your stance, just the particular statistic you used to highlight it.

And yes, there are situations where you can quibble over who the point guard is. Franklin/Heal on the 2003 Kings is another that comes to mind. But as I said in the discussion about Ricky Grace playing the 1 or the 2, it's not like we have netball-style set positions.

Going back over only the modern 40-minute era and expanding to all grand final teams:
2010: Martin (L), McKee (I)
2011: Henare (L), Ubaka (I)
2012: Jackson (I), Martin (L)
2013: Jackson (I), Martin (L)
2014: Martin (L), Ervin (I)
2015: Jackson (I), Wilbekin (I)
2016: Martin (L), Jackson (I)

That's two locals and five imports, assuming I can count.

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Marcus Camby  
Years ago

2010 Tywain was injured so it was Rhys Martin sharing with Luke Martin.

Reply #593095 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

In the grand final itself, yes. But not for the bulk of the season, which is what got them to the grand final in the first place.

Reply #593096 | Report this post


KET  
Years ago

Am i the only one who feels like the Kings are always either really good or really bad?

They were the violet crumbles then 3 time champs then out of the league then they return and completely suck and this season potentially dominate

Reply #593097 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Randle...it could be argued Gibbo was the PG
No, no it couldn't. Gibson was the 3rd tit under Joey, they hired an Import PG each season.
Norton was the PG
So what was Jett? A very highly paid water boy?
Just because a team has another PG on their roster doesn't negate the role of their import.
Thornton was so poor, no one knew what he played.
And what does that matter? Fact is that Sydney signed an import as their PG
Lisch ran point because of injuries to Martin (and Demos). Agent 97 and Martin were PGs
You're right, Lisch ran the point, so that's 7 out of 8 who were Americans.

Reply #593098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Thornton was not even close to playing the PG. He was recruited as and played as a SG.

Having said that, I agree that Aussies have struggled to produce good pgs. Adam Gibson has been known as a star and has made the boomers a few times. In reality he is an average player. But there's a lack of depth in Aussie talent

Reply #593099 | Report this post


NotQuiteInfamous  
Years ago

Gliddon was the main pg for Cairns last year from memory although the duties were shared with Starks.

Reply #593101 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

McKee started 17 games in 2010 and the Martins started 17 and the records were almost identical regardless of starting PG, with Rhys guiding them through the SF and to G3 of the GF.

The past seven seasons playoff teams have been split 50/50 between local and import starting PGs, showing it's not about where they're from but how they play and how well they fit the team.

It's easy to laugh at Dazz thinking Jett and Thornton were PGs when they obviously played mostly SG, but there a couple of commentators who made the same mistake last season and they're paid to know the league!

Reply #593112 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

I think there's a bit of a tendency to think of 'point guard' as 'guard under 6'4"'. As seen in the Ricky Grace discussion where someone was insisting he was always the point guard because he was only 5'11".

What happens if you count the number of players, though, not just the split? Counting the split is going to lean towards the locals because Damo makes it every year, but him making it multiple times doesn't say anything about the number of Australian point guards.

Reply #593115 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

In recent years, off the top of my head, D Martin, R Martin, Gibson, Tomlinson, Markovic, Bruce, Cadee, Norton and some in Cairns would say Gliddon/S Bruce last season.

So they definitely exist, and can probably be best described as a significant minority.

Reply #593123 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Does anyone know if the Kings are able to use three import spots? I would've thought that both Lisch and Newley counted as marquee players? Both would be getting paid a fair bit of money.

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Train  
Years ago

@Isaac; Maric, Lisch, Khazzouh and Newley could all be considered in that category.Its rumoured that they were chasing Childress and Beal also so we know at least one of those guys would not be considered Marquee.

Wasn't the rule 1 aussie marquee and then it would deduct from their 3 import spots? If so they could only be looking at 1-2 imports if the above is true.

Reply #593216 | Report this post


AngusH  
Years ago

Starting 4 spot needs to be filled, so I expect that to be either Childress or another import. Maybe a backup swingman with another import spot, and then one spot to be held in case an injury replacement is needed.

Reply #593218 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I wouldn't say that Aussie PG's don't exist, just that there is such an abundance of Import PG talent available. There's so many guys out their that are excellent ballers, can run the point, and are just too small to play NBA (and sometimes even Europe) yet they can come here and thrive.
SO if you look at the "pool" of potential PGS' its huge, and imports simply make up the bulk of the volume.
Furthermore, owing to the importance of the role, it has always tended to be a spot targeted for one of the import slots.

Reply #593220 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Whether they are marquees or not depends on whether the club wants them to be I believe. Nominating them reduces what they cost against the points/value cap and reduces how much luxury tax a team has to pay.

However, if Sydney is happy to folk out the dollars to the league, they could still have three imports alongside Lisch and Newley (and a couple of other gun Aussies if they could find/afford them.

Reply #593221 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Now back on subject, yes as I said, teams are allowed "upto" 4 local Marquees. Every one beyond the first takes the place of an import.

So yes, with their bunch of Aussie talent, you'd expect the Kings would push at least a couple of their highest paid into the Marquee Category. Leaving them with 1 or 2 import slots.

Not sure why people get their knickers in such a bunch over debating exactly the name that should be attached to a players role. Roles change over time, from league to league, and even the role of an individual player can change, ESPECIALLY when moving from O/S to the NBL.

Does it really matter if your Uncle Bob's girlfriend's hairdresser's plumber said Lisch will run the Point?
If It's Lisch bringing the ball down, with two wingmen, and two posts, then I guess he's the PG. If the Kings sign another PG, and he starts, then I guess not.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Wading through all that OT rubbish about who is an actual PG aside, paul is spot on... It depends on what the club decides to classify them... I think once you have two local marquee players, the actual discount isn't really worth it (cap on 1st LM is $150k, 2nd is $200K, 3rd $250k, I'm pretty sure?) so for the first two at least, if you're paying them $300K (like the number for Lisch being thrown around by the Hawks and every other team making comment at the time) then for a saving of only $50k, it wouldn't really be worth it when you can get an import for much cheaper who could be as effective as a 3rd marquee local...

I think it will all come down to budget and who they can actually/eventually get as imports...

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