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Anonymous
Last year

#40099

Ingram v Johnson

Ok.... Is there something that I am missing?

Wildcats are seriously (like SERIOUSLY) lacking someone who can create their own shot or can work off Pick & Rolls.

Honestly, I believe spreading the floor is not the biggest issue at Wildcats - you have guys like Wagstaff, Redhage, Kernich-Drew who are all solid shooters from behind the arc and then you also have Hire, Kenny and Prather (to an extent) who must all be respected from the 3pt line too. However, the one common trait between them is that they are straight "catch shooters", they'll never be able to create for themselves by breaking down a defender and pulling up, it has to be off a drive and dish to an open 3 or coming off off ball screens.

The Wildcats do not have anyone who can be aggressive off an on ball (potentially Prather attacking the basket, but not a threat in terms of a pull up game). Not saying Beal is the answer, but they should have almost definitely picked up a crafty combo guard.

The Wildcats said they wanted to play a more uptempo style of ball this year, however all of their games so far have still been a half court slogfest like last season where they had to grind them out. This worked fine last year, as they had such a large inside presence in Jawai, but by bringing in Johnson and McKay, this required them to play at a faster pace, which hasn't happened yet.

I guess we'll see how the Ingram/Johhnson switch works and if it opens up the floor for the rest of the team. Either way, Ingram can flat out shoot the ball, but just don't particularly understand the why they are replacing a knock down shooter (because that's all he done at the Cats, managing to shoot at a reasonable clip I believe) with another knock down shooter.

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Anonymous
Last year
00:35 19 Oct 16

Reply #602863

re: Ingram v Johnson

Maybe it is the coaching style?


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HoggyTimeRulz
Last year
00:41 19 Oct 16

Reply #602865

re: Ingram v Johnson

Good point OP. and the thing is, it is an obvious flaw within their structure.

Gotta give the coaches the benefit of the doubt, and think there is some rhyme to their reasoning - I just don't see it.

This is a tough situation because many fans would agree with the reasoning to cut Johnson, but many are also befuddled with the signing of Ingram.


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koberulz
Last year
00:43 19 Oct 16

Reply #602867

re: Ingram v Johnson

I wouldn't be calling Kernich-Drew a solid shooter until he's made at least one shot.


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Anonymous
Last year
00:57 19 Oct 16

Reply #602871

re: Ingram v Johnson

@Koberulz does that mean we don't call Ingram a solid shooter until he makes a shot in the NBL too?


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Anonymous
Last year
01:30 19 Oct 16

Reply #602874

re: Ingram v Johnson

I think everyone can see what the opening poster has stated. I'm happy to let Prather try and create more offense but let's be honest, as good as he is, he is still developing into that role. It's a big responsibility to have him create everything off the dribble when that traditionally hasn't been his game. But I have seen improvement from last year to this year so all power to him to continue expanding this part of his game.

But what else do we have? Martin and Kenny, who are well into their careers as non-offensive threats. They are not going to turn into big playmakers just because you've got a dead-eye shooter spacing the floor.

Beal was already one of the better 3PT shooters in the league and I didn't see Martin and Kenny running pick and rolls well last year either. The Wildcats have severly overestimated their existing playmaking talent.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:32 19 Oct 16

Reply #602876

re: Ingram v Johnson

Watch all the YouTube highlights of Ingram. 95 per cent of his buckets come from him hanging on the weakside and taking advantage when one of his playmakers penetrates and kicks it out to him. Nothing wrong with that, but the key is the guy who gets into the lane and draws defenders. A spot-up shooter is nothing without the guy who draws the defence - The Cats don't have that.


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Anonymous
Last year
02:04 19 Oct 16

Reply #602879

re: Ingram v Johnson

I suspect a large part of this signing has to do with teams having to respect Ingrams shot from his scouting report. A coach will demand hard close outs, this should open up Prather to the basket and someone else for a putback.

As much as i was a JJ fan (jersey purchase...) we shouldn't write off an excellent, older 3pt shooter, Kirk Penny is still rather dangerous!

Even when we had Bevo coaching we were never an offensive team and relied heavily on defence to produce offence.


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whitewind
Last year
09:30 19 Oct 16

Reply #602886

re: Ingram v Johnson

One thing I havent heard one of the critics talk about yet is the defensive change the cats will see. Johnson was quite foul prone in the games I watched, with his mins being restricted due to 2 fouls in the first qtr. I have not heard much of Ingram's defensive game, other than his 1.1 stls per game last season. That stat resonated in my mind as I thought with martin and prather up the court, this would lead to more steals with added pressure.


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Anonymous
Last year
09:55 19 Oct 16

Reply #602887

re: Ingram v Johnson

It is quite common guy rookie imports to get into foul trouble in their first few games as they adjust to the refereeing. I'm puzzled Johnson wasn't given more than three games to prove his worth.

Really the only reason they should've punted him this early is if the replacement would've been snapped up by someone else if they didn't act now. Cue the guy who has been in the D league the last ten years. Pretty sure he still would've been available in a fortnight


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Anonymous
Last year
10:16 19 Oct 16

Reply #602891

re: Ingram v Johnson

What's all this talk about requiring a specialist shooter to open up space for Prather to attack? The man has had two of his best games ever in Wildcat uniform in the past two games!

This move is nonsensical!

And Johnson is not a poor fit like DeAndre Daniels. Daniels was playing out of position and did not have the skillset of a swingman, nor had he ever played that position in his career.

Johnson *is* a wing and has demonstrated the ability to shoot the 3, handle the ball and use his athleticism in transition. What he has lacked is some confidence, somewhat surprising after his match-winning efforts vs Cairns. However, if you have a player who has obvious ability but is a little low on confidence (perhaps due to still adjusting to the new environment, which is not unusual for new imports), then it is on you as a coaching staff and management team to get the player comfortable and get the best out of him, not kick him to the curb!

At the end of the day, you need high talent levels to win championships and as most have noted, the talent level of the league increased this year so it's even tougher than last year. For that, I commend the Cats for trying to upgrade Beal to Johnson, but I simply can not advocate a move to get rid of a guy who was a potential all-around star for a spot-up shooter.

We were 2-1 as well so it's not like we were in desperation mode yet either. And whilst the form during the games were patchy from quarter to quarter, this is expected for a team that was sporting 3 new starters. The positive thing is we had built double digit leads in all 3 games. With more time to build unity and familiarity, this would have been a formidable side come the end of the season.

I'm not sure who was responsible for this move but they need to take a good hard look at themselves. I gather the Cats recent success of 2 rings in 3 years has gone to their head and they've forgotten common sense, just like with the DeAndre Daniels move. Looks like they need another slap in the face to wake up and stick to sound basketball fundamentals again. Bring on 2017-18.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:57 19 Oct 16

Reply #602893

re: Ingram v Johnson

Hoggy shoots 80% from the 3.

Ingram shot 39/50 at the d league show case.

Illuminati


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Farrison Hord
Last year
11:14 19 Oct 16

Reply #602895

re: Ingram v Johnson

Johnson could handle the ball?

He literally turned it over every opportunity he had in a one-on-one scenario due to an incredibly poor handle.

Everyone forgets that the D-League is an individual league where minimal defense is played.
The new import wont even get a shot off in the NBL


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Anonymous
Last year
11:41 19 Oct 16

Reply #602897

re: Ingram v Johnson

I think people are going to be shocked at how well he fits in. He's not going to be a Rotnei Clarke, but he will be a floor spacer and if left open will be deadly. Especially with a lightning quick release.


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Anonymous
Last year
11:48 19 Oct 16

Reply #602898

re: Ingram v Johnson

Ingram will either be really good, somewhat good, a bit average, or really bad. Or somewhere in between.


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_Strungout_
Last year
12:02 19 Oct 16

Reply #602901

re: Ingram v Johnson

#602898 - can I please borrow your crystal ball? Amazing prediction that I think may just turn out to be correct.


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AnkleBreaker
Last year
12:08 19 Oct 16

Reply #602902

re: Ingram v Johnson

I think the Cats learnt from the Deandre Daniels situation, and kept him on hoping he might turn into Ennis overnight. Knowing that taking him out early left only 1 other import.

With Johnson, they probably thought Ok Prather is playing great, Jameel Mckay is confident in the NBL, we don't wont to wait any longer for Johnson to find his confidence we can afford the risk of switching 1 of 3 imports without too much disruption given the Johnson (with the exception of the Cairns 3pter) was not often putting a lot of stress on the scorers table to keep up with his stats.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:15 19 Oct 16

Reply #602903

re: Ingram v Johnson

#602898 clearly has inside information.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:29 19 Oct 16

Reply #602904

re: Ingram v Johnson

lol @ 898


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SC6017
Last year
13:37 19 Oct 16

Reply #602912

re: Ingram v Johnson

So lets be honest. Cats don't really have an outside threat. Redhage hasn't been a threat for the last 2/3 years. Hire is lottery everytime he jacks a shot outside of the paint, DDK is yet to hit a bucket, which leaves Wagstaf really.

I get that we initially wanted pace with letting beal go but the reality is that was when Prather was a second option, this year he's become our go to guy in the absense of Beal so our requirement for that role has changed.

Not sure why everyone still raves on about Beal. He shot at a 35% clip beyond the arc last yr, which is okay not anything special.

Ingram is a Ray allen-esque - corner catch and shoot and doesnt seem like much else, which you can argue will complement Prather in spreading the floor for him and giving him a reliable kick out option.


Johnson, was too similar a player to Prather in that he needed the ball to be effective, this was a problem because Prather has tunnel vision at the moment , likes to take the game on himself and doesn't really get others involved.

This may work out better overall, but we'll see.



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Dazz
Last year
14:50 19 Oct 16

Reply #602921

re: Ingram v Johnson

I am left wondering if there was some off-court issue?

Lets face it, Ingram is the kind of kind you rush to get when you need an import at short notice.

There is imply no logical explanation otherwise.

Firstly, JJ was EXACTLY what the Cats set out to recruit. They went looking for a Wing player, a 2/3 to replace Beal's 1/2. And that's exactly what they got.
He's also shown that he's handy from the 3-point arc.

For all those pointing to JJ's apparent weaknesses, consider that they are replacing him with a one-trick pony.


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koberulz
Last year
15:46 19 Oct 16

Reply #602927

re: Ingram v Johnson

I am left wondering if there was some off-court issue?


http://pickandroll.com.au/perth-feel-regain-dolla-beal/
"We believe for us to challenge for the championship this season, we need to make this move," Head Coach Trevor Gleeson told media yesterday.

“While Jaron is a very good player, we don't believe he is the right piece of the puzzle for this team.”

“Jaron has been here for two months and he’s a quality person. With the profession that we’re in - don’t disrespect your job and don’t disrespect playing hard and what it means to play for the Wildcats. It’s a gentle reminder.


Emphasis mine.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:09 19 Oct 16

Reply #602934

re: Ingram v Johnson

Emphasis mine?


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Anonymous
Last year
17:10 19 Oct 16

Reply #602935

re: Ingram v Johnson

It means he added the bold to highlight parts of the statement that he felt were the most important, while showing the complete context of the comment as well.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:12 19 Oct 16

Reply #602937

re: Ingram v Johnson

So JJ was being naughty somehow?


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Anonymous
Last year
18:52 19 Oct 16

Reply #602943

re: Ingram v Johnson

Wonder who in the organisation he pissed off.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:54 19 Oct 16

Reply #602946

re: Ingram v Johnson

probably told Marvin to F off. I know a few guys have wanted to do it, but havent had the stones to do it.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:03 19 Oct 16

Reply #602952

re: Ingram v Johnson

Koberulz there was a direct question asked of gleeson was it off court related he just flatly said no and talked about needing more perimeter punch


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Anonymous
Last year
20:07 19 Oct 16

Reply #602953

re: Ingram v Johnson

"I was at home in Richmond, Virginia, in the States when they called me. I was just working out and training. I work out middle and high school kids back home so I'm always around the game.

“This is the best offer I’ve ever gotten, from the best organisation. All those things put together make this the best job. I’m very glad this opportunity came up because this is what I wanted to jump at. A place like this perfect."

A high school coach and never received a better offer in his life after a ten year career. Doesn't help the perception that this guy is seabl quality


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Anonymous
Last year
20:36 19 Oct 16

Reply #602958

re: Ingram v Johnson

One thing I will say about Ingram is he does appear to have that infectious, positive attitude about him. His CV looks questionable but I do like that


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Anonymous
Last year
20:42 19 Oct 16

Reply #602959

re: Ingram v Johnson

Cats never usually go for budget price imports so interested to see how this pans out


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Anonymous
Last year
20:44 19 Oct 16

Reply #602960

re: Ingram v Johnson

I love a questionable CV, said no one ever.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:43 19 Oct 16

Reply #602966

re: Ingram v Johnson

I was in love with Johnson's upside but his ability to help and switch, particularly in weakside defence was dubious. My peers stateside tell me Ingram has experience in a Grinnell offence and I am expecting he will run some nice action with Prather coming off pin-downs and upstream screens or even run a simple three man weave with Prather and Martin. His length is average but his motor is good and could allow him to provide weak side help and some second unit playmaking especially in an uptempo system with strong switch downs from big wings.


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Luuuc
Last year
21:48 19 Oct 16

Reply #602970

re: Ingram v Johnson

I'm really sold on the upside of this ^ shtick, but I'm willing to give it a few more games to see if you can refine it and make the right adjustments for it to work in an NBL environment.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:53 19 Oct 16

Reply #602971

re: Ingram v Johnson

Hoggy shoots 80% from the 3.

Ingram shot 39/50 at the d league show case.

Looks to me like Hoggy is just better #freehoggy


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Freethrows
Last year
21:56 19 Oct 16

Reply #602972

re: Ingram v Johnson

I wonder if Aaron Fearne is currently begging the Taipans board to let him drop Edwin for Johnson.

Still wouldn't fix the PG issue in FNQ.


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Dazz
Last year
22:51 19 Oct 16

Reply #602976

re: Ingram v Johnson

"Jaron has been here for two months and he's a quality person. With the profession that we’re in - don’t disrespect your job and don’t disrespect playing hard and what it means to play for the Wildcats. It’s a gentle reminder."

Koberulz there was a direct question asked of gleeson was it off court related he just flatly said no and talked about needing more perimeter punch
It's boilerplate.
I can write you the statement for any player who will ever be sacked:
"He was a wonderful person, a great player, and we thank him for his contribution. However we have decided to go in a different direction ."
A guy could be smoking crack in the dunny at half-time, and the statement will still be the same.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:57 20 Oct 16

Reply #602981

re: Ingram v Johnson

"With the profession that we're in - don’t disrespect your job and don’t disrespect playing hard and what it means to play for the Wildcats. It’s a gentle reminder."

I thought this pointed more to effort/aggression/productivity issues. I thought JJ's approach already looked a bit inconsistent in the pre-season.

I expect he was under more pressure due to the situation with the front court. Losing Jawai and Jervis, and missing Knight presumably puts more pressure elsewhere, to make something work ASAP. I think the recruiting process has had a domino effect. It doesn't look like a well composed team at the moment.

In comparison, I think McKay doesn't really have JJ's potential to dominate, but he has been very active at all times. McKay made good things happen from his work rate, as much as anything.

I would have liked to have JJ get more time to fit in. At least talent wise, he has lots of potential to succeed within the NBL.


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Anonymous
Last year
05:07 20 Oct 16

Reply #602983

re: Ingram v Johnson

"Johnson could handle the ball?

He literally turned it over every opportunity he had in a one-on-one scenario due to an incredibly poor handle."

I guess that explains his four turnovers in 75 minutes.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:53 21 Oct 16

Reply #603353

re: Ingram v Johnson

So what's the verdict on Ingram?


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Dazz
Last year
12:00 22 Oct 16

Reply #603397

re: Ingram v Johnson

Looked surprisingly ok for his first game off the plane.


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