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Jumpshot
Last year

#40347

Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Thank God for Newley (the Bull) is made of cast iron, constantly taking fouls and on the floor but is unstoppable. Lisch (the Iceman)doesn't miss in the clutch. Much can be said about Kings' imports, but they were on their heels and absent in the first 2 quarters against Melbourne. Unless they step up Randle and Adelaide will get this one.

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Luuuc
Last year
10:23 28 Nov 16

Reply #610152

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

1st
daylight
8th


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AngusH
Last year
10:54 28 Nov 16

Reply #610156

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

I hope the Kings get the win, but as with every game this season I have no idea what's going to happen.


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Wookiee
Last year
10:57 28 Nov 16

Reply #610157

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Kings guards couldn't contain Ware last game, they're going to have an equally hard time defending Randle in this game, but a big difference is that Randle is really going to have his work cut out against the likes of Lisch whose little back down and mid-range jumper game is on point...

Our bigs need to step up and keep out of foul trouble because I can't think who will be able to stop them if the refs (and actually committing silly fouls) don't keep them out of the game...

Yet another Monday night game... The crowds have been good and are getting better, but always with the caveats that it's a weeknight...


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Anonymous
Last year
10:58 28 Nov 16

Reply #610158

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Kings will in but at $1.20 too short for what Randle is capable of IMO. But all in all the 36ers are pretty ordinary and if the kings get going have the 6ers covered in most areas.


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Jack Toft
Last year
11:04 28 Nov 16

Reply #610159

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2016

Pride cometh before the fall.

It will certainly be an interesting game. It's top v bottom, but that doesn't really mean much this season and I'm hoping for a high scoring fast paced game.

Based on the "Snitchers" (lack of) D, I think we'll see both teams in triple figures at the end of the game.

As always, the only real certainties are un-cetainties.

LET'S GO SIXERS!


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Wookiee
Last year
11:36 28 Nov 16

Reply #610163

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Yeah, I agree that the Kings can't just expect the win and have to come out hard to set the tone... That's happened after previous games that we've let go only to get close but fall short, but they are REALLY going to have their hands full with Jerome and if other players can actually step up and they show a bit of D, it could turn into another game of catch up...

36ers paying $4.30 was too tempting though, just in cases...


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LV
Last year
11:47 28 Nov 16

Reply #610165

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Adelaide have been hot and cold, they've been brilliant at times but also copped a couple of absolute beatings on the road.

Sydney has been struggling recently, but are 5-1 at home and are due for a good performance.

Nothing would surprise me given how competitive it is right now, but I'll tip Sydney by 15.


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Isaac
Last year
12:20 28 Nov 16

Reply #610168

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Do Adelaide have anyone to stop Newley? He will be too big for Adelaide SG/SFs in the absence of Creek, you'd think.


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Bear
Last year
12:38 28 Nov 16

Reply #610171

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Agree, Creek's loss has been too hard to cover but that won't be the only player the 6'ers will have trouble with.

The Kings should win by 10+...


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XY
Last year
13:35 28 Nov 16

Reply #610177

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

So far this round, every team lower on the table has defeated the higher placed team.

Adelaide could make it a sweep for the underdogs and make the NBL table look even more nightmarish. If they do, every team in the comp would be within 2 games behind top spot with Sydney hitting the half way point of its season. That has surely never have happened anywhere before.

That said, that is probably too much of a wild dream and Sydney should take this one out.


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Freethrows
Last year
13:41 28 Nov 16

Reply #610178

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Adelaide have won half of their road games, thus far, including a stunning win against Brisbane last week, so they can't be written off, but Sydney have a 5:1 W:L ratio at home so far, so I think they'll win this.
If the Kings win, it won't be close, so Kings by 18, for me.


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PeterJohn
Last year
13:44 28 Nov 16

Reply #610179

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Adelaide - one of only two teams not to have a losing record in the road (3-3, same as Brisbane)

That said, they're still -5.7 points per game on the road!

Like LV posted, when they lose, they lose big, even though they win as often as they lose (on the roAd).

Sydney have the best home record in the NBL this season (5-1) and are +8.2 points per game at home.

Sydney to win at home


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Anonymous
Last year
15:13 28 Nov 16

Reply #610188

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Ok, so I called the Brisbane win with 'Adelaide by ten last week', now I'm running with a six point Adelaide win. I feel Sobey will get loose tonight along with backcourt partner Randle!


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Wookiee
Last year
15:54 28 Nov 16

Reply #610190

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

So that means *does quick maths* Kings will win by 11?


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Johnson
Last year
18:31 28 Nov 16

Reply #610202

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Hawks showed that playing zone defence against adelaide is the key to limiting Randle scoring.I think he only scored seven& eleven in the two games v Hawks


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KET
Last year
18:43 28 Nov 16

Reply #610203

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Johnson that's true but only because 36ers have been terrible at shooting threes and there has been very little movement.

Last game against Brisbane Ferguson, Drmic shot like the sharpshooters they are meant to be and Randle & Johnson hit their shots like we know they can.

36ers might not shoot like they did against Brisbane last game, but if you're playing zone, you need Ferguson, Drmic, Randle, Johnson and even Sobey to be misfiring or to move so slowly as to not get those open shots against the zone defence.

Sure, in the past that has literally been the case which is a huge frustration, it's like every check & balance fails at once. However, if I was the opposition, I wouldn't expect that to occur. They might dabble in the zone because of the historic troubles against it, but i'm not sure i'd be banking all my chips on it.

The 36ers are young. If I were the Kings, i'd be pushing up hard against the likes of Ferguson, Drmic, Sobey etc. once the ball is over the halfway line to force mistakes.

No breathing space can cause a lot of trouble for youngins.


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ROFLcopter
Last year
19:05 28 Nov 16

Reply #610205

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

I'm looking forward to this one....
Which Adelaide will turn up?


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SteveK2
Last year
19:13 28 Nov 16

Reply #610206

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Maric with 2 dunks back to back, someone wound his clock back 10 years. :)


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SteveK2
Last year
19:14 28 Nov 16

Reply #610207

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

3 dunks in a row now!


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ROFLcopter
Last year
19:24 28 Nov 16

Reply #610208

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

The fu8k is Teys doing taking those fade away jumpers!!
He's just not good enough to attempt that shot.



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ROFLcopter
Last year
19:34 28 Nov 16

Reply #610209

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

6ers dominating but not capitalising on the scoreboard.
I'm tipping they'll pay down the stretch for missing these easy ones.


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AussiePride
Last year
19:38 28 Nov 16

Reply #610211

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Full Disclosure. I have backed the 36ers. This effectively means that there is an inpenetrable lid on their basket for the night.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:43 28 Nov 16

Reply #610212

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Fox sports, please, please, please stop the shot camera angles!!!


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ROFLcopter
Last year
19:43 28 Nov 16

Reply #610213

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Teys couldn't hit a brick wall with a shotgun.
Hopeless.


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ROFLcopter
Last year
19:45 28 Nov 16

Reply #610214

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Homecooking!!!!!


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Anonymous
Last year
19:53 28 Nov 16

Reply #610215

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Teys will be the x-factor!!!


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SteveK2
Last year
19:56 28 Nov 16

Reply #610216

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Mediocre game to watch so far. For most of the half the Sixers looked unsure and tentative while the Kings looked half-arsed. Zzzzz...


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SteveK2
Last year
19:57 28 Nov 16

Reply #610217

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

The half-time commentating is also Zzzzzz, Brad Rosen FML.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:57 28 Nov 16

Reply #610218

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Teys will be the X factor said no one ever.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:58 28 Nov 16

Reply #610219

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Well, off you go then Steve!


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Anonymous
Last year
20:12 28 Nov 16

Reply #610221

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Gone negative on offence


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Zodiac
Last year
20:25 28 Nov 16

Reply #610223

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

One point game at the last break


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Zodiac
Last year
20:37 28 Nov 16

Reply #610224

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Sixers up 82-73


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BigAds
Last year
20:41 28 Nov 16

Reply #610225

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Sixer then daylight (when they play defense)









If only :-)


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BigAds
Last year
20:45 28 Nov 16

Reply #610226

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

I respect Teys more than some but I don't want him on the floor these last 2 minutes.


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ROFLcopter
Last year
20:51 28 Nov 16

Reply #610229

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Wowee.

Impressive by Adelaide to hold composure.
Horrendous from Shitney down the stretch.


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Luuuc
Last year
20:51 28 Nov 16

Reply #610231

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

OK, where's that clown who said a 6 point Adelaide win?


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Anonymous
Last year
20:52 28 Nov 16

Reply #610234

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

So my six point Adelaide win prediction was pretty close!!!


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AussiePride
Last year
20:53 28 Nov 16

Reply #610235

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Great win 36ers. There are no certainties in this league!


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Zodiac
Last year
20:53 28 Nov 16

Reply #610236

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

36ers then daylight


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Edward
Last year
20:58 28 Nov 16

Reply #610238

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Poor loss for the Kings. At home v a much lower ranked side without a key starter. Blake and Powell were non-factors. Cadee was cold all night. Whittington got into foul trouble early. Maric was gifted some dunks but also came up with some typical dumb fouls.

Only Lisch and Newley had good games for Sydney.


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twenty four
Last year
21:01 28 Nov 16

Reply #610240

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Wow, Kings have really become a two man team, haven't they? Cadee and Blake are so streaky that you really don't have to worry too much about them, Powell can easily be mentally taken out of the game (and then get taken out by his own fouling...) and Maric can only score if given easy touches from Newley or Lisch.

Good to see us the 36ers getting some decent contributions off the bench (Doyle with good minutes!). Hopefully this weekend gets the kids really going and we can keep this up.


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Camel 31
Last year
21:05 28 Nov 16

Reply #610241

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Deng 11 points in 11 minutes seems pretty good....


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koberulz
Last year
21:06 28 Nov 16

Reply #610243

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

There are no certainties in this league!
Shit reffing?

How do you look at a perfectly legal screen and see an unsportsmanlike foul?


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SteveK2
Last year
21:08 28 Nov 16

Reply #610244

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Not taking anything away from the Sixers, they took care of business and held steady down the stretch, but the Kings gave that game away for free and were an embarrassment to watch. Lackluster, half-arsed, some hint of arrogance even, made it easy for the bad refereeing to take over the game. Its the opposite of the United vs. Kings game which was real exciting to watch.

The NBL made a few good changes to improve the product but the refereeing really need a kick up the arse. Its not fun when the flow of the game is disrupted unnecessarily because a ref saw a possible infraction.

Need some education on every official to be able to make quick decision balancing what needs to be called if it impacts the game outcome significantly vs. the end product of good entertainment.


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Uncle Phil
Last year
21:12 28 Nov 16

Reply #610246

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

That was not a legal screen, he clearly leant in with the shoulder which is illegal and was a stupid play by Maric considering the refs had been calling illegal screens tight the whole game. I though he was unlucky to be called for the unsportsmanlike as it was more due to circumastance (size difference between the two players) that he got Randle in the head. But he should have just played straight up, the kings had a real shot to win it at that point and he just gave the game away. When is Khazzouh due back? I would think he would relegate Maric to the bench when he is fully fit, as Julian is a much better player.


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Zodiac
Last year
21:14 28 Nov 16

Reply #610248

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

How do you look at a perfectly legal screen and see an unsportsmanlike foul?


Maric dropped his shoulder at the point of impact. Easy call, Harvey agreed and even Rosen did too.


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koberulz
Last year
21:14 28 Nov 16

Reply #610249

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

There was maybe, possible, a tiny little bit of a turn. But that's legal if you don't leave your cylinder.


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SteveK2
Last year
21:20 28 Nov 16

Reply #610253

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Uncle Phil got that one right. Its illegal screen because he leaned forward slightly as he dropped his shoulder. Stupid play by Maric but unsportsmanlike call is just bad refereeing because of the size difference. Imagine if that was Nate Jawai that bounces back a few steps off Maric, unlikely it will be called unsportsmanlike.

The very thing I wasn't enjoying from this game.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:21 28 Nov 16

Reply #610254

re: Kings v 36ers 28/11/2015

Referees deciding to write the script of the game is becoming a real hindrance to fans enjoyment of the game. Let the natural momentum of the game run it's course, there are far too many lets make the big call thaty changes/decides the game moments


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Isaac
Last year
06:08 29 Nov 16

Reply #610256

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

The 36ers complete a round in which every underdog beat its more fancied opponent, including the 36ers getting Brisbane and Sydney, and the Hawks breaking their drought in Perth. Wow.

Daylight predictions were the real loser this round.


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KET
Last year
08:36 29 Nov 16

Reply #610277

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Isaac, plenty of posts missing from the Hoops Forum lately...


Kings fans reacted as if they got screwed by the refs, they didn't.

Garlepp pulled down Drmic by the ankle when he was on the ground, you can't just can't be that stupid. (and yet the fans booed)

Maric lowered his shoulder to bump Randle, that's an illegal screen every day of the week (and yet the fans booed).

Maric doesn't get a reprieve for being tall, if you're tall and you're going to do the illegal screen like that, you need to make sure you don't get the other players' head. It's not bad luck, it's reckless and absolutely an unsportsmanlike foul.

Even in AFL when you bump and clip the head, even if it's an unfortunate situation of height, the onus remains on the person doing the action to not collect the other guy head height.


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AngusH
Last year
08:38 29 Nov 16

Reply #610279

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

My other post got deleted in the forum issues last night...

Maric's illegal screen was probably a 60/40 call. Yeah, he leant into him, but so do most guys on most screens. But hey, fair enough call... but an unsportsmanlike? One of the worst calls I've seen this season, which unfortunately is saying something. It didn't cost us the game, but cost us a chance at a comeback.

Good result for the Sixers, with a lot of contributions across the board, although DJ in particular. Watching Adelaide score so many points off simple high screens and quick hitters, it makes me wonder why the Kings persist with the shuffle at all times. We ran a total of one on-ball with Blake/Powell, and it led to a great look and FTs, and we never tried it again. Too much passing around the perimeter for 3s, not enough looks inside. We also had DJ guarding Whittington in the first half, and I have no idea why the Kings didn't clear out and let Whittington take him to the basket even once.


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Isaac
Last year
09:35 29 Nov 16

Reply #610283

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

KET, see here: http://www.hoops.com.au/forum/40342-im-having-a-problem-with-the-site/#p610271


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Wookiee
Last year
10:13 29 Nov 16

Reply #610285

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

KET - there's a difference between getting screwed by the refs and the refs being the reason a team lost the game... The latter wasn't the case this time, but obviously we will be disagreeing on the first as here were so many shit calls against the Kings that it was like we were playing in Perth...

The reason the Kings lost the game was because they came out flat and didn't get their heads in the game... For the most part the 36ers didn't deserve to win what was a terrible game to watch either, but they stood tough and made the plays at the end to get their lead and keep it...

Maric turned the shoulder, sure, which considering who he was screening, wasn't wise, but the reflex of players to do that to brace themselves for impact is fairly instinctual and on anyone else, wouldn't have been an issue... Should have just stood there and it would have been the same result, just no foul, let alone an idiotic unsportsmanlike...

The 36ers were getting the benefit of the calls all night because they were undersized and unable to physically match up with a lot of the Kings players... Powell got called for a whistle while getting position on Deng just because Deng is like a third of his size and couldn't match up on him... Where's the fairness in a player getting whistled because the other player isn't up to the match up?

As for the fans booing, are you seriously having a go at fans in a stadium booing when 36er fans are called the most knowledgeable just because they boo every single call on their home court? It's the home fans job to do that, no matter what, but especially when it's felt that they're getting a rough deal...

Powell had another brain fart to get a technical that was really badly timed, but I doubt he would have said anything that Joey hadn't been screaming into the refs ear all night with no call...

Either way, the 36ers and refs weren't to blame for the Kings losing, the Kings lost it from the tip off which is the most frustrating part as a fan... Newls and Lisch the only stand outs on an otherwise terrible night to watch basketball (compunded with being detoured around most of the V8 track around Homebush trying to get out of the precinct...


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LV
Last year
10:42 29 Nov 16

Reply #610288

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Daylight schmaylight.

I'm happy that this is one of the rare occasions where I'm wrong, because it also happens to be one of the rare occasions where I'd much rather be wrong than right.

This season is ludicrous. Ludicrously good!


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KET
Last year
10:44 29 Nov 16

Reply #610290

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Maric was the one who set the screen, if you're not willing to take the impact don't set the screen.

But whether it was instinct or not, you can't lower your shoulder and knock someone in the head, it's reckless in the AFL and it's reckless in the NBL.

You can blame instinct or height difference all you like but it's irrelevant - when you set the screen and then do the action of lowering your shoulder what happens next is a consequence you have to bear. If the guy gets knocked in the head, then you're going to get done for unsportsmanlike - and so you should, we can't be putting players at risk of concussion. To me, that's not idiotic, that's common sense.

As for the fans booing, are you seriously having a go at fans in a stadium booing when 36er fans are called the most knowledgeable just because they boo every single call on their home court? It's the home fans job to do that, no matter what, but especially when it's felt that they're getting a rough deal...


Obviously you view the idea of the 36ers fans being most knowledgeable with skepticism. But 36ers fans aren't called that for just booing everything and anything, on the contrary, it's for riding the refs on the 50/50s and knowing when not to boo.

You don't boo when your own player decides to drag the opposition player by the ankle. You don't boo when your player shoulders another guy in the head. If the 36ers did that, I wouldn't be booing the refs, i'd be calling the player an idiot like when Ferguson took a swipe at Worthington. You just can't do that stuff.

And of course, the Kings fans booed the refs off the court - what call are they booing exactly?

Between Kickert, Garlepp and Maric we've got some real characters in the NBL. It's like the days of Simon Kerle.



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AngusH
Last year
10:51 29 Nov 16

Reply #610292

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

"what call are they booing" is a good call for reasons you don't intend... Randle got hit in the head because he's short and Maric is tall. Maric picked up the unsportsman-like foul for being bigger than Randle, which is consistent with how NBL refs call the game, and also a large reason why we don't see dominant post player imports in this league - they are on the bench with 3 fouls at the start of the 2nd Q, 2 of which were probably picked up while boxing out.

Refs didn't cost us the game, but it would be nice to get some home cooking once in awhile... ;)


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AngusH
Last year
10:52 29 Nov 16

Reply #610293

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

oh, but that was a dick move by Tommy, no question on that one. I like to think fans were booing either Tommy or Gaze for continuing to put him in there. Outside of that foul (which he made after turning the ball over) I counted 3 times he was out of position on defense, 2 of which ended in baskets. Hill should be out there soaking up those minutes.


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HoldenV8
Last year
11:48 29 Nov 16

Reply #610300

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Booing.....I seem to remember a game during the Marty Clarke era when the 36ers were booed off the Adelaide Arena court for capitulating in the last period of a game.


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paul
Last year
12:05 29 Nov 16

Reply #610302

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Just caught the replay of this one. Wow, that unsportsmanlike foul call by Chris Reid is one of the worst calls I've seen in the NBL. It was the slightest lean forward by Maric and Reid was only a couple of metres away.

It's a major concern for the NBL when their most experienced referees are consistently making howlers. I'm not sure what the solution is to that.


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Wookiee
Last year
12:10 29 Nov 16

Reply #610304

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Definitely a dick move by Tommy and agree he's taken a bigger dive in contributions lately... I honestly don't think a lot of fans would have seen what happened other than the section in front of it though as it happened off the ball and even the replay was a bit light on, when they got around to showing it...

Agree that Hill should have been out there last night, would have lifted the intensity a lot more...

I'm not saying that turning his shoulder was not the wrong thing to do, just that it was exaggerated, like most of the other calls when 36ers players got out muscled, by the distinct lack of size of the opposition player... There's a fine line between bracing yourself for contact which is natural and going beyond that to actually take out a player, and that is an even thinner line when the opposition player comes up to your belly button... Something that should have been taken into account though, in the two seconds that it took to do it...

As for the refs getting booed off the court, they got booed off the court because they did a very shit job the entire night, and the CA who was on the mic at the time, was suggesting that the fans say a polite good night to them... Poor form from Mike Goldman really, don't ever want to fire the fans up too much when the mentally lacking among them might make some poor choices... I'm not expecting home cooking, I'd just like to not be screwed over like we were playing away and the other team gets every 50/50 call let alone x-ray calls from refs who had to imagine the actual contact...

I wouldn't lump Maric in with more common behaviour from Garlepp and especially Kickert... Tommy has been narky because he's not playing well, Kickert is just a whinging tool, but Maric has been playing consistently tough in a grown mans league... if he sets hard screens, that's his job... Shouldn't cross the line into causing intentional harm, but there's been a lot harder screens set on other players this season with less consequences...


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paul
Last year
12:11 29 Nov 16

Reply #610305

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

On the positive side what a performance from Adelaide, especially with Lisch getting the better of Randle, and what a great battle that was.

Great to see Johnson back to his best and I really rate the control Sobey is playing with this season, understanding when he is hot and when he needs to just play a role.

Imagine if they hadn't been Aelaie for so many games this season, they're a completely different team when they defend and rebound as they did this weekend (and against Melbourne in R1).

On the Kings winning streak they were forcing something like 18 turnovers a game - perhaps with an element of surprise early in the season - in two games this weekend they forced 18 in total.


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Duke Fan
Last year
12:50 29 Nov 16

Reply #610308

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

"Wow, that unsportsmanlike foul call by Chris Reid is one of the worst calls I've seen in the NBL. It was the slightest lean forward by Maric and Reid was only a couple of metres away."


Perfect example of an incompetent official calling the result of the action, not the action. So pretty much just another night in the NBL.
Josh Powell needs to work on his discipline, but I do see it's very hard for him with the way the refs call the game. He gets butt raped every time he goes in the paint and nothing gets called. He tries to look after himself a little and gets called for offensive fouls. Honestly some of the "defence" that gets played on him would result in a punch in the mouth in some leagues. But he's supposed to cop it and say "Thank you so much Mr Official" when they make their shit calls.
Too many sufferer's of "small man's syndrome" seem to become refs


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koberulz
Last year
13:32 29 Nov 16

Reply #610311

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Wow, that unsportsmanlike foul call by Chris Reid is one of the worst calls I've seen in the NBL.
It wasn't even the worst call of the weekend (the offensive foul on Johnson despite Kay moving and being in the no-charge arc) or the worst call in Adelaide's favour this season (the Corban Wroe backcourt violation).

And over the longer term, it's still well behind the Corey Webster unsportsmanlike from last season and the Jamar Wilson charge from 2012.


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KET
Last year
14:05 29 Nov 16

Reply #610313

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I don't really know what you guys expect to be called?

To begin with, you can't lean in to bump with the shoulder, that's an offensive foul. At the very minimum.

The next thing you look at is - regardless of intention -whether it was unnecessary and reckless and when you collect someone in the head that's what it becomes. Yes Maric has a disadvantage in terms of height, but that puts more of an onus on him to ensure he doesn't collect players in the head when he's committing an offensive foul.

If you're going to commit the foul, make sure you don't risk injuring the player in the process. The action was the offensive foul which was quite clear, the consequence was Randle knocked on the head - when you place someone at risk like that you take the consequences of an unsportsmanlike.

We see the exact logic when a player contests a breakaway dunk where the contesting defender might knock the offensive player hard to the floor accidentally. Why? Because the player going for the dunk is vulnerable in the air on a breakaway and if you place them at risk it will justifiably be unsportsmanlike.


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Anonymous
Last year
14:07 29 Nov 16

Reply #610315

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Kobe, in your examples of worst calls this round you mention Kay is moving. The defender is allowed to move to maintain position, the need to be stationary went out years ago... the ncz part of that play is no doubt an error by the official.

But the worst call of all time is the Patty Mills flop induced foul on Wilson... which was followed up by a technical on Fearne :) I still giggle watching that one


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Anonymous
Last year
14:20 29 Nov 16

Reply #610316

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Ket airbourne player doesnt come into the equation for USF fouls. Heavy or severe contact or an unbasketball like act (ie not making a legitimate play at the ball).


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Duke Fan
Last year
14:24 29 Nov 16

Reply #610317

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

KET....Maric's ever so slight movement of his shoulder wasn't designed to hit Randle in the head. Randle himself is responsible for 99% of the contact as he runs into the screen
The only unsportsmanlike behavior was from whoever was guarding Maric and didn't call the screen and let his guy wear it


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koberulz
Last year
14:24 29 Nov 16

Reply #610318

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Kobe, in your examples of worst calls this round you mention Kay is moving. The defender is allowed to move to maintain position,
But he wasn't moving to maintain position, he was moving towards Johnson.

The other aspect of the Wilson call is the seventeen fouls Mills committed just prior without any of them being called.

I don't really know what you guys expect to be called?
Nothing.

We see the exact logic when a player contests a breakaway dunk where the contesting defender might knock the offensive player hard to the floor accidentally. Why? Because the player going for the dunk is vulnerable in the air
Yes, exactly. Vulnerable in the air. Randle was neither of those things, except for the fact that none of his teammates told him about the screen, but why should Maric get punished for that?

The next thing you look at is - regardless of intention -whether it was unnecessary and reckless and when you collect someone in the head that's what it becomes.
Yes, Maric was recklessly...standing there.


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koberulz
Last year
14:26 29 Nov 16

Reply #610319

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Randle himself is responsible for 99% of the contact as he runs into the screen
It was actually Maric's defender who was responsible. I have no idea who that was, because the replay is still unavailable on the 'improved' NBL TV.


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koberulz
Last year
14:29 29 Nov 16

Reply #610320

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I also have no idea how I missed you making the same comment. I'm going to blame the issues the site has been having.

Carry on.


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KET
Last year
14:42 29 Nov 16

Reply #610321

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Nothing.


I'm very thankful you don't dictate the rules or reffing then. Turning and lowering your shoulder is always an offensive foul in that scenario, therefore should be called a foul. Can't just pretend a foul doesn't exist because you don't like it.

Vulnerable in the air. Randle was neither of those things


Randle's head was vulnerable. Believe it or not, that's a pretty damn important thing.

why should Maric get punished for that?


Maric should be punished for moving, lowering his shoulder and collecting someone in the head because it is an offensive foul, and it's a obviously risky contact because collecting someone in the head is funnily enough, inherently risky!

The whole point of rules like that is for player protection. Just because you're a big guy doesn't mean you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, Maric was recklessly...standing there.


Need OPSM mate? He clearly moved lowering his shoulder, that's just "standing there"


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KET
Last year
14:48 29 Nov 16

Reply #610322

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

#1 Maric tweaked his movement and lowered his shoulder
#2 Maric's lowered shoulder collects Randle's head

Where's the "just standing there" part? Because that's definitely doing something.

And who actually thinks lowering your shoulder and in the process bumping someones head is not a foul?


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koberulz
Last year
14:54 29 Nov 16

Reply #610325

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

urning and lowering your shoulder is always an offensive foul in that scenario
Movement was minimal, and didn't create any contact that wouldn't have happened anyway.

Randle's head was vulnerable.
By that logic, everyone's head is always vulnerable, so every foul should be unsportsmanlike.

The whole point of rules like that is for player protection.
Rules like what? There is no rule.

The criteria for an unsportsmanlike foul:
  • Not a legitimate attempt to play the ball within the spirit and intent of the rules

  • Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball


Plus two others that apply to defensive players only.

Point one obviously doesn't apply.

Per article 33.2: "As soon as the player leaves his vertical position (cylinder) and body contact occurs with an opponent who had already established his own vertical position (cylinder), the player who left his vertical position (cylinder) is responsible for the contact."

Maric's rotation never removed him from his cylinder, therefore Randle is responsible for the contact, therefore point two cannot apply. This also means it's not a foul.

It's legal to turn your body to protect yourself, as long as you remain in your cylinder.


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KET
Last year
15:06 29 Nov 16

Reply #610327

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Movement was minimal, and didn't create any contact that wouldn't have happened anyway.


Movement occurred, that's an offensive foul. He moved away from his "vertical position" he was no longer vertical when he tweaked his position and lowered his shoulder for the bump. You can't do that when setting a screen, didn't you know that?

By that logic, everyone's head is always vulnerable, so every foul should be unsportsmanlike.


Everyone's head is always vulnerable, that's why you don't be stupid to commit a foul where you move your shoulder to create contact. You love denying the obvious, but Maric moved his shoulder, he created the contact.

All he needed to do was stay vertical and not lower his shoulder.

Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball


Obviously we disagree since you don't even acknowledge Maric moved in the first place (again, OPSM).

But in committing the offensive foul, he did do excessive contact when he turned and bumped Randle in the head. He was the who engaged by thrusting his shoulder.

If he didn't do that, then it would be Randle's fault for running into him.

Sobey got called for an unsportsmanlike foul against Brisbane which was substantially less excessive and we didn't see people railing against it.


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koberulz
Last year
15:10 29 Nov 16

Reply #610328

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

You love denying the obvious, but Maric moved his shoulder, he created the contact.
Are you seriously saying contact would not have occurred if Maric hadn't moved his shoulder? Seriously?


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KET
Last year
15:16 29 Nov 16

Reply #610329

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

No, because that's not what that sentence says.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:18 29 Nov 16

Reply #610330

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Maric only braced himself, terrible call.


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KET
Last year
15:33 29 Nov 16

Reply #610331

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Bracing himself? He isn't bracing himself!

Maric specifically drops the shoulder and leans to the right to collect Randle.

How does leaning to the right to cut off a player count as "bracing"?

I know the image sucks, but you can specifically see him using his legs and body to lean in to stop Randle getting through his right side.




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Duke Fan
Last year
15:45 29 Nov 16

Reply #610333

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

As every screener does most of the time. Have a look at Jawai setting a screen some time.

You're judging the result. As did the ref. If Randle doesn't hit the deck it would be lucky to be called a foul. In the game situation as it was unsportsmanlike was a terrible call


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Isaac
Last year
16:02 29 Nov 16

Reply #610334

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Didn't see it. What is the consensus on the correct call? No call or foul on Maric or something else?


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koberulz
Last year
16:05 29 Nov 16

Reply #610335

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

You've read this far through the thread and think there's a consensus?

Mal Cooper is on Twitter claiming the USF call was correct.


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KET
Last year
16:06 29 Nov 16

Reply #610336

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Kobe & others are arguing Maric was bracing himself - anytime you lean across you're not bracing. That's not even under consideration because that's not how anyone braces - ever. That's how you make sure you create more contact.

I must be on my own in this view, but when a player leans his body across and moves out of a vertical position (Maric was anything but vertical in that screenshot), he's the one creating the contact and causing an offensive foul, particularly when you make a little step movement across which Maric did, albeit slight.

That addresses why I believe it was a foul on Maric. The unsportsmanlike, I view it in the same way as the commentator - shoulder bumping a players head (even if unintentional) and body bumping another players body are two different degrees when considering whether there's excessive force. The latter doesn't warrant it, but in my opinion the first does.

Which means if you're going to commit the offensive foul, do it without dropping the shoulder and most certainly do it without collecting a players head.

If you're vertical and not dropping the shoulder and Randle runs into you, then it's his own fault. But that's not what happened.

Jawai and others might do it, but does the rules actually allow it?


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Dave
Last year
16:07 29 Nov 16

Reply #610337

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I was happy with the call because it finished the game for the sixers but there is no way that was an unsportsmanlike in my opinion. It was definitely an illegal screen though because he dropped the shoulder. It just looked so bad because Randle was at almost full tilt and he hit a large brick wall.


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KET
Last year
16:12 29 Nov 16

Reply #610338

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

It does seem like Randle likes to go down, i'm never sure whether it's just the result of momentum, strong fouls and him being small or whether he adds a little extra theatrics to it.


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Rat10
Last year
16:22 29 Nov 16

Reply #610339

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Not unsportmanlike but definitely a foul. It doesn't matter that there was "minimal" contact - Maric definitely dropped his shoulder into Randle. The Foxsport commentators clearly saw the foul this way also.

Minimal as opposed to no contact is often the difference between a ref calling a foul and a ref not calling a foul. It's what makes reffing a basketball game difficult - slight sideways movement is often the difference between a block and a charge being called.

How many times did Bogut get called setting screens to get Curry/Thompson open because he was SLIGHLY moving his hips or his but into the defender. The screener needs to be stationery and not moving and Maric fails this test.


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Freethrows
Last year
16:49 29 Nov 16

Reply #610340

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

@Rat10, if you call every "slight" move by a player setting a screen, you call almost every screen. There are very few examples of screens set, where the player doesn't move his hips laterally.

The fact of the matter is, and always will be, that big guys setting picks are more likely to be called for fouls with smaller guys running into them than vice versa. This applies to charges in the paint, too. If Randle (for example) charged into Nate in the paint, he'd bounce off. Nate may not get called for a block, but the chances of Randle being called for a charge are minimal.


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sixtiesrockstar
Last year
17:00 29 Nov 16

Reply #610343

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Maric clearly turns and drops the shoulder, leaning into Randle. In NRL he could get put on report and in the AFL he would probably get 4 games.


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Zodiac
Last year
17:03 29 Nov 16

Reply #610344

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Didn't see it. What is the consensus on the correct call? No call or foul on Maric or something else?


The consensus was it was the right call. As I posted last night both commentators Harvey and diehard Kings man Rosen said it was the right call, which it was. A pretty straight forward call.



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Rat10
Last year
17:05 29 Nov 16

Reply #610345

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

@Freethrows I take your point however many screeners are called for moving their hips into the defender as it's deemed a "moving" screen. My point remains that miminal movement or not it's still movement which makes it a foul.

I will add also that moving your hips on a screen is a little different to dropping your shoulder which is what Maric does.


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sixtiesrockstar
Last year
17:08 29 Nov 16

Reply #610347

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

@Freethrows, if you want to talk about size meaning the foul call, maybe Knight going flying when tiny little Randle runs into him would constitute a charge, don't you think, considering Knight was even still moving, so much for Randle's minimal chances of being called a charge
It would be great if the refs called the illegal screens and moving screens properly all the time.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:16 29 Nov 16

Reply #610349

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

If I read one more post saying player A was moving it cant be a charge I will literally throw up. Learn the rules


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paul
Last year
17:39 29 Nov 16

Reply #610352

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Can anyone find an example where a similar screen was called USF? I can't remember the last time I saw any screen called that way, let alone one with minimal movement.


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Brunson
Last year
17:45 29 Nov 16

Reply #610353

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

KET I agree with you that it was the correct call.


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Uncle Phil
Last year
17:48 29 Nov 16

Reply #610354

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

It wasn't like it was minimal movement, he clearly moves - leaning in on the screen which is an offensive foul every day of the week. It also isn't as though the precesent hadn't been set by the referees throughout the game, they were pretty tight in calling all the moving screens that occurred - even those with minimal movement. As I said before I didn't think it was an unsprotsmanlike but it was still a boneheaded play by Maric - you're not going to get away with moving on a screen like that right in front of a ref.


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paul
Last year
17:56 29 Nov 16

Reply #610356

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

It was a foul, but the movement was not pronounced, I just watched it again. Can anyone list a screen that's been called a USF this year, or other years?


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koberulz
Last year
20:33 29 Nov 16

Reply #610369

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28


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Rat10
Last year
21:45 29 Nov 16

Reply #610384

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Sixers were up 6 with 1:20 to go. If the foul wasn't unsportsmanlike then Randle still goes to the line and sinks 2 putting his team up by 8. Bit of a stretch to suggest that call would have changed the outcome of the game so not worth getting too fussed about I would have thought.


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Luuuc
Last year
21:52 29 Nov 16

Reply #610386

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I wouldn't have called it unsportsmanlike but he definitely put some extra mustard on it. Foul for sure.


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Anonymous
Last year
22:41 29 Nov 16

Reply #610393

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Rat10 learn the rules if you're going to try and add something constructive... No free throws are awarded for offensive fouls...


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SteveK2
Last year
23:36 29 Nov 16

Reply #610399

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Still debating the technicality of the Maric screen I see.

Thanks for putting up the link Koberulz, made it easier to look at it closely with the benefit of frame by frame analysis.

As per FIBA rule for screening, Maric had both feet set for well over 1 sec, he gave an in-motion Randle more than sufficient time and distance to easily avoid him IF Randle became aware or notified. Unfortunately, Maric did lean outside his 'cylinder'. His shoulders at moment of contact had advanced past his feet. No argument it was an illegal screen there.

Koberulz already explained the Unsportsmanlike rule clearly. Did Maric caused the excessive, hard contact in an effort to play the ball? With both feet set for maybe 1 to 1.5 sec, Maric certainly did not cause the contact even with leaning outside his vertical cylinder. Randle was solely responsible for causing the contact because he wasn't aware of where Maric was positioned and his in-motion speed made the contact caused by himself to appear excessive. Maric was certainly under no obligation to notify Randle of his position and provided him with sufficient time and distance to avoid contact if made aware.

So technically its an illegal screen but not unsportsmanlike foul. Would the refs be able to ascertain all that within 1 sec? Looking at the replay it appears that he wasn't watching Maric prior to contact. The ref was running and looking at Steve Blake dribbling up the court, saw Randle ran into Maric and immediately called the unsportsmanlike foul after seeing the hard collision with Randle on the floor. Ref was clearly judging the outcome of the action and unlikely had enough time to see and evaluate 'only the action'.

FIBA 2104 article on Unsportsmanlike foul I can find searching on the web:

37.1.2. The official must interpret the unsportsmanlike fouls consistently throughout the
game and to judge only the action.

I could only assume an updated 2016 rules would still have the same article.

So with video replays available to the refs in 2016, why didn't he review the 'action' as opposed to judging the outcome? Thoroughly deserved to be booed off the court for the poor officiating.


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Anonymous
Last year
00:01 30 Nov 16

Reply #610401

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

SteveK2, for someone who just sprouts the rules maybe look up the IRS rule. You can't check via replay the action as apposed to the outcome.
46.12

Be authorised to approve before the game and use, if available, an Instant Replay System (IRS) to decide before he signs the scoresheet
• at the end of the period or extra period
▬ whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the game clock signal sounded for the end of the period.
▬ whether and how much time shall be displayed on the game clock, if:
▪ An out-of-bounds violation of the shooter occurred.
▪ A shot clock violation occurred.
▪ An 8-second violation occurred.
▪ A foul was called before the end of playing time.
• when the game clock shows 2:00 minutes or less in the fourth period and in
each extra period,
▬ whether a shot for a successful field goal was released before the shot
clock signal sounded.
▬ whether a shot for a field goal was released before any foul was called.
▬ to identify the player who has caused the ball to go out-of-bounds.
• during any time of the game
▬ whether the successful field goal shall count for 2 or 3 points.
▬ after a malfunction of the game clock or the shot clock occurs, on how
much time the clock(s) shall be corrected.
▬ to identify the correct free-throw shooter.
▬ to identify the involvement of team members and team followers during a
fight.


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SteveK2
Last year
00:45 30 Nov 16

Reply #610404

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Thanks Anon, I stand corrected on the use of replays then. I can only conclude that not even available technology can be used to assist in improving the sub-par officiating performance. Disappointing.


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koberulz
Last year
01:35 30 Nov 16

Reply #610405

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

The rules were changed after the Melbourne-NZ fiasco last season to make any and all calls reviewable in the final two minutes.

This also could have applied to that awful charge call on Johnson on Sunday.


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Duke Fan
Last year
07:54 30 Nov 16

Reply #610413

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

In answer to your question Paul, I can't recall an unsportsmanlike foul call on an illegal screen ever, anywhere. And I've been watching basketball since 1978.
It was a foul
Unsporstmanlike was a bullshit call.


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Isaac
Last year
08:49 30 Nov 16

Reply #610418

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Thanks also for the video. Looks like a foul, but not USF. And maybe only marginally a foul at that.

Any other Sixer should've warned Randle. Maric was almost camped there.


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Anonymous
Last year
09:22 30 Nov 16

Reply #610419

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Yet another bad refs fail.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:01 30 Nov 16

Reply #610428

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Koberulz, you are correct that the league altered its IRS rules after the United v Breakers game but it did not extend that to reviewing judgement calls. The IRS cannot be used to reverse or review a referee's decision to call an infraction, or to not call an infraction.

So it couldn't have been used on the Sunday game you refer to.


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koberulz
Last year
15:33 30 Nov 16

Reply #610465

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

The IRS cannot be used to reverse or review a referee's decision to call an infraction, or to not call an infraction.
Of course it can. Even under FIBA rules that's the case with shot clock violations in the final two minutes.

The NBL said it was expanded to include 'all calls'. Even under the tightest definition of that, where it includes only calls that can be made objectively, Kay was inside the no-charge arc.

But that wouldn't have helped with the Breakers-United game at all - although, the issue there was applying a nonexistent rule rather than misinterpreting events, so nothing would have - so I can't see why that would be the change made.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:51 30 Nov 16

Reply #610469

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

Last years release

In follow up to the NBL's "MELBOURNE V NEW ZEALAND GAME REVIEW" announcement on Monday, 9 November 2015, the league is writing to confirm and provide further details regarding the new rules for the Instant Replay System (IRS).

Please be advised that effective immediately, during the last two minutes of the 4th period or extra period, administrative and technical matters can be reviewed by the IRS at the discretion of the game referees. Some examples of administrative and technical matters are set out below. Please note that this lists some possible examples only, and is not intended to be exhaustive:

- To determine the exact time a foul or violation occurred
- To identify the correct player who committed a foul
- To determine if a score bench error occurred
- To determine the correctness of time out situations
- To determine the status of the ball at the time of an infraction

Referee judgement calls made in the last two minutes of the 4th period or extra period are not reviewable. For the avoidance of doubt, the IRS cannot be used to reverse or review a referee’s decision to call an infraction, or to not call an infraction.

The intent of the new IRS rule is to minimise the possibility of administrative and technical errors at the end the of games and is not intended to try and eliminate all human error whatsoever. Minimising inherent human error is the role of training and education.


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koberulz
Last year
16:10 30 Nov 16

Reply #610476

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I don't recall ever seeing anything that specific at the time. I'm curious as to how the NBL thinks that would have helped.


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Wilson Sting
Last year
16:16 30 Nov 16

Reply #610478

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

The USF call was BS, as was the foul call. Maybe technically it was a foul but that has not been consistently applied all game or season so it should not be called.
I don't buy that Maric was maliciously leaning in - he was just bracing himself. You can argue that Randle is half his weight but he'll still be carrying a fair amount of force at that speed.
If Maric had stood completely upright he would have been barreled over and probably called for a flop.

Either way, the big man gets screwed once again.


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KET
Last year
17:10 30 Nov 16

Reply #610489

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

I can't believe people keep saying Maric was bracing himself.

He did the complete opposite to bracing. Bracing is a defensive maneuver, Maric did an offensive maneuver.

If you're getting ready to take on contact, you're going to make yourself solidly grounded vertically and maybe twist the body to take it on the shoulder instead of full front.

What you're not going to do is lean in, remove your solid grounding and take up extra space to create the contact.

What Maric did is totally counter-intuitive to the concept of bracing. If anyone here tries to brace themselves that way in a game, then you're doing it wrong.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:11 30 Nov 16

Reply #610490

re: Kings vs 36ers, Nov 28

If you don't want to be "barelled over" then don't purposely stand in the path of a midget moving at high speed.
If you do choose to stand in the way then do it legally or cop the foul.
It's pretty simple.


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