This is an interesting one.
Perth Arena hasn't been the happy hunting ground that you might expect this season.
A 9-4 record looks good, but take a closer look and you'll see numerous games won in Overtime or on the final possession. The Cats haven't been putting teams away in the daunting red and blue furnace like they historically do with regularity.
Lisch might bring some of his best work and cause the upset.
Bill on the ball
The season ends here if Perth lose.
All the guys will lose salaries for next year if they don't win. And they know it.
I think it will be a different level the Cats would play at. Sydney and Gaze are likely to fight too but it is a hard thing to do in the Jungle.
End of the day, the Cats have two winnable games. Do that, and they are guaranteed a spot in the finals. So that's what they need to aim for.
And lets face it, if they can't beat Sydney in Perth for their first game, why bother about the the 2nd game in Melbourne?
They have won some close games this season, and choked in others. Time for the "tough to get going."
Let's hope Cotton is not manhandled too much otherwise word has it he will return home and no further decent imports will ever grace our shores again. To address this potential disaster the NBL has decreed a three meter exclusion zone around Cotton.
In the interest of referees calling Perth players out of bounds when "not even close" the refs have been instructed that and out of bounds violation that could result in possession being awarded to the Kings will not be called unless the ball leaves the arena completely.
As long as these instructions are followed Perth may have a shot at the wins but sadly Luuuc the thread will fall short of your targets.
Yeah, I get that his explosiveness is down and it's really affecting his finishing at the rim (which used to be world class but is currently mediocre), but I don't get why his free throws have gone from money (> 80% last season, > 83% for most of this season) to 59% over the last month or so.
So with the refs being how they've been recently, is anyone taking any money on Gleeson getting thrown out before the end of the season? Not this game as everyone will probably play better, but still, would be nice to see at some point...
As for predictions for the game, the only one I'm confident making, other than Kings losing is that previously dormant skills in at least 2 Wildcats players will be revitalised...
So with the refs being how they've been recently, is anyone taking any money on Gleeson getting thrown out before the end of the season?Gleeson flaps his arms a lot, and has been teched before, but generally he's smart enough to back away (with his trademarked "I've been horribly wronged" face) when the ref approaches.
Ironically, I think when he does get teched, its an actual mistake on his part, like walking onto the floor. His theatrics, arm waving, and serial whinging seem to be tolerated.
As I said Koberwizzer, "especially from the stripe"Why do you think the location of the shot alters the importance of legs?
I can't imagine imagine a leg injury that allows him to play unhindered, yet is so bad it impacts his shooting from the stripe.
Its hard to judge some of the careless stuff that goes on in basketball.
You've got Conlkin who wildly throws his arms around everytime he loses the ball, smashes Damo's Jaw and the NBL let him skate.
Should Tommy get penalised for accidentally giving Knight a concussion???
I also really don't like them adopting the "early plea" bullshit.
What they're actually saying is "We are a law unto ourselves, and accountable to nobody. If you dare to question us we will penalise you twice as hard."
End of the day, the NBL has picked a rubbish time to get tough.
Didn't see the game, but just saw that replay. Tourbduckin kidding yourself if you didn't think a suspension was coming!? The early plea has been implemented and works well in the afl. Guess Dazz you just need something to whinge about besides the actual incident which you can't straight faced say wasn't suspension worthy. The nbl had no choice and your issue should be with Greg hire the consummate nice guy you Perth faithful go on about. Great timing for your team to be a fool Greg.
The Kings will overrun them and win
Highly doubt it. Hostile crowd of 13k in a do or die situation means you need nerves of steel to play well. Only Lisch and Newley capable of playing unperturbed. If anything, they thrive on that challenge. Cadee, Powell and particularly Whittington don't have the same mental toughness. They'll either wilt or implode under pressure.
No overrunning here. If they win, it would be a very slim margin with calls heavily going in their favour and they get ridiculously hot from the perimeter. Two very unlikely events in the toughest arena in the country.
If that is a suspension surely the high shot from Jervis that concussed Knight needs to be looked at and also result in a suspension.
Frankly this is purely ammunition to suggest the league is sculpting the results they like.
Jervis had a Duty of care not to catch Knight high, he failed badly enough he was concussed and missed a game. To then turn to the team that had to stomach losing a key player for a game and say btw, you are now losing one of your players for a high shot is inconsistent and unacceptable.
Furthermore to hand out such a harsh penalty (context on NBL penalties) to a team who has had Damo's jaw get rearranged, Wagstaff receive a flying elbow, Joey wright punch a coach all with no or less suspension (pretty sure Childress served his suspension while he was injured anyway!!!) suggests that the league takes it's cues from the wildcats haters on here and is sick of seeing the cats at the top.
Terrence Ferguson was outed for 2 games for taking a swing. I think they have taken a firmer stance this season based on backlash from previous incidents. If you take your cat fan hats off, realistically this is the correct decision and is to be commended from a previously inconsistent league on such things. Be angry at hire for making the league make a call on this. Dumb play.
Agree with J that it looks particularly harsh/worse due to the lack of suspension given out to people involved in incidents with Wildcats over the recent years. If this is the new norm then fair enough, but seems an odd and harsh/unlucky time for the league to be cracking down and making this the new norm.
Turn it up. The Jervis-Knight one was completely incidental. There was no malice in that one. That's a pretty dodgy interpretation of duty of care too, btw.
Bad decisions of the past shouldn't mean bad decisions today. That's not how precedent should work. Assessing this one on its merits, Hire threw the elbow and it struck high.
If the Cats believe that a 1 game suspension is unfair for that incident they can take it to the tribunal and argue their case.
Silver lining. DKD finally gets some minutes, hits half a dozen threes, Cats win, he carries that form in to Sunday, Cats qualify for the playoffs and end up facing Adelaide in the GF, DKD smashes them with his new found confidence, the Town of Adelaide floods due to the tears of their fans.
Luuuc, we are dealing with posters who are completely emotionally raged right now. You can't talk sense into conversation right now. Would the jervis suspension make you happier? I mean really? Like does it change the fact that the playoffs are now at risk due to a veterans stupid move? I mean if they some how suspended jervis at this point doesn't change the fact a Perth player made a bad reactive moved and it'll cost his team. Remember the fans loathe Perth not the league.
Luuuc please explain how Jervis didn't violate his duty of care to knight? Intention is a factor and not a major one at that. Paul George didn't intend to kick the ball at a member of the crowd, he did, was ejected and fined anyway because he still committed the action.
Interesting that J and his running mate Brown(?)who appeared to go over every Cairns (so called) potential foul or every other decision that went against the Cats and point many out to us failed to notice this incident or give it a mention. Hire's elbow must have been obscured behind the eye that J had closed.
Going by J's logic Hire should have had the book thrown at him because if this type of treatment continues to be dished out to star imports then no import will want to come here to play.
FSTOS I haven't said hires suspension wasn't worthy, in context it is not worthy. If you read it would be better. If you read and comprehended you would see I want replays, and when was provided a photo of the prather out of bounds call happily acknowledged I was wrong.
Maybe if you removed you're anti perth sentiment you could see how in context of the injuries suffered by cats fans with little to no consequence this one stings.
"Luuuc please explain how Jervis didn't violate his duty of care to knight? Intention is a factor and not a major one at that. Paul George didn't intend to kick the ball at a member of the crowd, he did, was ejected and fined anyway because he still committed the action."
J, I'm not trying to avoid the question, but I don't feel like I have anything new to add either.
like I said before, I thought the Jervis-Knight thing was incidental and just very unlucky to result in a head knock.
I consider that quite different to when a player intentionally lashes out in some way or kicks a ball with force.
If you intentionally perform an action that has a realistic chance of causing harm, then it is on you to make sure you perform that action with no one in the firing line. That is an application of "duty of care" that I am on board with. Feel like kicking ball hard? First make sure there are no people there and no property that's going to be damaged.
Jervis-Knight was not in that category at all IMO, unless you are ok with saying that no one is allowed to move within a metre of another person on a basketball court because if they do there is potential for a collision.
If people want to dig up other incidents in order to compare severity and compare punishment that's a good thing. I just think the Jervis-Knight one is not remotely similar, so it's a poor choice to pick on. It had unfortunately bad consequences for Matty, but that doesn't make the action comparable.
No I don't really have any anti Perth sentiment other than aversion to some of the flopping and irritating conduct that Redhage or Wagstaff for example have used over the years. In fact at times I admire (while its not easy on the eye)their commitment to win at all cost.
What has really pissed me off is how you and your forum buddy went on and on about the treatment Perth received in Cairns and all the associated BS about imports etc but did not even notice Hire's incident which (when added to the not even close lol out of bounds) which showed how you were clearly only checking one side of the story and did not want to listen to those who suggested that the calls, some of which were wrong as always, did nor really effect the outcome of the game.
If you look at the recent style of Perth and their physical play (which by the way I cant recall personally spending countless posts whining about) you just come across as the ultimate one eyed hypocrite for you whingeing about the Cairns game without ever posting these same issues when they involve the team you support. Which by the way most unbiased fans with a decent knowledge of the game will agree cross the line more than most.
Luuuc, from where i saw the Kninght Jervis hit i thought an arm came up (again no replay, wouldn't it be easier if they showed them). However to an extent it doesnt matter.
As the screener Jervis owes Knight a Duty of care to set a screen legally and safely, like in AFL and bumping.
If you do fail to do this you have violated your duty of care.
No doubt Jervis wasn't trying to hurt Knight, but it doesn't come into duty of care.
Just like not locking away chemicals, no malice, but a duty of care violation none the less.
I agree with you saying the action had no malice, and malice should not be a contributing factor to any punishment, but that is a separate part of a whole, Duty of care is another.
FTSOS I have said I don't like everything about how Perth play, also acknowledged I hit the keys a bit much the other day, can you let it go?
There were some horrible calls both ways in that game, did you really want me to post about them all? I really don't see why I would write about the elbow, there was no replay (again) and frankly I hadn't seen enough to comment.
I felt that during the 3rd in particular there was a bunch that consistently went against Perth that changed the momentum of the game, you may feel differently, we are both entitled to express our grievances.
Have you considered that maybe the Perth bashing on here and the failure to ever (by most) acknowledge that Perth can be on the wrong end of a call or two, or three contributes to the feeling that they are getting hard done by?
I am all to aware how rubbish the refs are, i regularly shake my head at some calls that go Perth's way, but why would i post that? It would only fuel the brazen Perth bashing i referenced above.
If you don't believe me, i'll sight the foul on Mccaron on MCkay, all ball, bad call. Happens all the time.
J, I don't think Jervis is even trying to set a screen there. If you look at his feet, he's on the move the whole time. To me he is just trying to get past the crush and into open space, but clips Knight accidentally on the way past.
(We also all know Matty's history with head knocks. Had that been any other player I think there's a fair chance they don't even need to sub out after that contact - but that's just speculation on my part and not any part of my point)
(View at YouTube for a larger & higher-def view)
"Interesting that J and his running mate Brown(?)who appeared to go over every Cairns (so called) potential foul or every other decision that went against the Cats and point many out to us failed to notice this incident or give it a mention. Hire's elbow must have been obscured behind the eye that J had closed. "
Actually it was mentioned often in the form of "would be nice for a replay of an USF?"
Besides, the ref called it so I'm at a loss of what your point is and I have said in this thread the correct call was made, so again, still don't know your point other than to whinge about cats fans.
Damn, it's hard to see any contact to Knights head in that vision.
Agree with the above, in no way was that intentional. I think Knight has taken too many head high hits....similar what happened to that St.Kilda AFL player Justin Koshitzki. Time to retire.
I am a Perth supporter and I agree that within the rules of the game the 1 game suspension is appropriate, however this type of contact has occurred dozens of times throughout the year without a suspension. I think it is terrible timing for the NBL to start to crack down on the crucial last round before the finals.
I said "was" not "has".
As I have said in the relevant threads, Knight has looked clearly hampered in recent games (presumably the Hip injury) slow to get up the court, and no elevation.
However he did come out strong in the Brissy game.
So I'm hoping the rest has helped not just his head but his hip.
He didn't come up strong in the brassy game, he was on the receiving end of excellent passes by Casey. Did you not notice how passive he was on the defensive end? When he ventures out to guard the perimeter we are left very exposed. I agree that in the past his positioning has been excellent but lately he has really struggled to move his feet and has become a liability on the defensive end.
Perth games are hard to watch.
Whittington just got whistled for something Redhage used to do about 6 times a quarter. Martin draws a charge by diving sideways into Cadee who was making his way to the hoop. It was very reminiscent of the play two weeks ago when Martin almost knocked Casper Ware out- Ware had to go off the court and get treatment- but Martin still got the call.
Of course, the Cats have been horrendous on the road this year. United will take great pleasure in knocking them out of the playoff race on Sunday as Gleeson blows his stack on the side line. I'm quite looking forward to it- and United's season won't have been a complete failure after all.
The way we are playing on D, I hope we end up losing this game because it will mean big changes this offseason, which in the long run I'd prefer over losing a first round series exit in 2 or 3 games. A high pick is basically a guaranteed drive down the middle of the key against our shitty defense.
If you're playing in Perth you know every time Martin hits the court it's a charge, and every time he rakes a ball handler's arm it's a no-call. That's just how it is... and also why you shouldn't ever put yourself in a situation where you must win in this arena. Would love to see a replay of Newley's first two touches in the 1st Q when Martin was matched up on him. Raked Newley's arm outside the arc, then brutally bodied him up next to the hoop.
"Get serious Gordon, these guys play once or twice a week. How can they be tired,the're professionals, it's a sad cop out they are tired."
What level of sport have you played Thunder? To suggest professional athletes' bodies don't sometimes get worn down from a huge workload of training and playing at high intensity is at odds with reality.
To be fair, Whittington bounced the ball hard 3 times, but in that situation... reminds me of that Memphis-Kansas NCAA final years ago when Derrick Rose blew the FTs in the last minute, then next possession is called for a foul and slams the ball on the court, shitty at himself... gets cautioned, but no tech. NBL refs though? No chance.
It was a complete lack of control and lack of judgement on the part of the refs to blow two techs instantaneously without a warning or anything.
Just extremely poor judgement, refs who lost control with the 12,000 riotous crowd baying hard.
An example of how far the NBL has to go.
It serves no purpose to throw a player out as easily as that, and is actually detrimental to the interests of basketball.
And, extremely hypocritical and inconsistent given the extremely long leash afforded the 8 coaches who patrol the sidelines in this league. I'm sure Gleeson would be given ample warning before being turfed out of the stadium. These guys constantly step onto court during play, they make an ugly sideshow by throwing their hands in the air like Mitchell Johnson appealing an lbw and screaming like teenage girls.... But a player shoots after the whistle, and then bounces the ball too hard on the ground.... And GONE. See ya! It's legit parody stuff. Absolute parody. Only in Perth.
I put a bet on at the start of the season. $1. If Cairns plays Perth in GF, I make $276. I'm ahead for the season. Also bet on Cairns to make playoffs. So I actually could make lots of money starting from tonight's result. And since United are now out that almost definitely spells the end for DD- a good thing. So this is not sour grapes at all from me.
If you're a real basketball fan then you should want to see exciting, fair contests. Tonight was not one. Sure Perth would probably have won anyway, but the point stands that the Reffing took a lot away from the spectacle. Disappointed.
Margin too big and not enough time left, safe to assume the Kings are done. Other than Lisch, Newley and Gaze on 3 year deals, who else has multi-year deals? Maric?
Next season definitely clear out all the imports, retain Moller and send Gaze to coaching school.
"I know there is another thread, but how do Cairns top us if they lose tomorrow night, we finish on the same wins, and we have the point split."
because all the scenarios with Cairns and Melbourne tied also have someone else tied with them. Cairns did better than Melbourne against all the other teams that might make up that multi-team mini table. So they end up with a better win-loss ratio than Melbourne in all of those possible mini-tables.
Kings line up 2017-18 season (considering who is already signed)
Whittington (if we can - has potential)
Cadee (cause he's signed)
Import (like McKay or rebounding defender)
McDW (if available, if not, a guard)
No need for a 3rd import with that roster.
Keep it up the sleeve.
Do need an offensive shake up & a kick in the ass for anyone that displays piss poor body language.
Gaze will learn from this season & evolve as a coach.
Moller is there best rebounder and gets to the rack as good as anyone at the kings, to many mates act at kings, gaze going to have to learn ruthlessness. Hopefully the kings can keep MDW and Moller as they are the future and don't hog the ball very team orientated.
Whittington is the player who received the delay of game warning earlier in the game. The after already drawing the delay of game warning he is the one who shoots the ball. Harsh, maybe but you have to be smarter. The second, come on you need to know better at that point.
Lv the charge calls are rubbish in every game and have been all season. To suggest the refs spoilt the game is sour grapes. For once there was minimal off ball calls that didn't impact the play.
sorry, saw "Vic" and thought you were asking about Melbourne.
If Cairns and Perth both lose their remaining games, it depends on the Illawarra-Brisbane result:
If Illawarra then Perth will finish above Cairns.
If Illawarra lose then Cairns finish second, Perth third and NZ fourth.
That's Casey Prather the real Casey Prather all those other weeks' Casey Prathers were just imitating
Oh and I hated that ejection too.
Both acts were worth techs, but damn ... 2 "soft" techs should not get you tossed from a game.
(and yes I know that's the rule and always has been)
The kings were insipid and whittington was having a good game but dammit it was his own stipidity which got him tossed and cost the kings any chance thereafter.
Was great to see Prather being aggressive and back to his best again. With him and cotton both firing together watch out
At game thought the second tech was too harsh, don't know if he screamed something he shouldn't have because it just looked like he was letting off steam. We don't need to take emotion out of the game. NBA and fiba both want to turn players into vanilla robots, crowds want to see personality,
That was by far the best the wildcats imports have worked together all season. Hope it continues till Sunday.
I don't see a problem with the refs calling the techs for delay of game BUT why start calling it all of a sudden. Shooting after the whistle has been blown has been going on all season ffs. Even as a Perth fan, you dont want to see that happen.
Putting that aside, Perth defence was brutal and it was good to see Prather return to form. Perth can be dangerous if they can keep playing at that level.
I was wrong, not even close.
Kings soft on D, then seemed to lose heart.
Shame to see Whittington ejected like that.
It's not like he was mouthing off or being aggressive.
It's one thing to eject a hot-headed coach, but to take out a good player, just sucks. I don't thing Sydney had a chance by that stage, but they might not have lost heart so quickly.
"I don't see a problem with the refs calling the techs for delay of game BUT why start calling it all of a sudden. Shooting after the whistle has been blown has been going on all season ffs. Even as a Perth fan, you dont want to see that happen."
Unfortunately a victim of the circumstances, think the ref was frustrated as both the him and a Perth player were right next to Whittington on the sideline ready to restart play.
He argued a LOT over an earlier foul call. I think that pissed the refs off.
When was the warning given?
Heal was claiming the warning wasn't against Whittington.
I have no problem with a foul being called in each of those situations.
I think the refs were right to call them, and the rules are the rules.
But it sucks.
I hate team warnings for delay of game. It is the NBL, not under 10's at Marion. Pretty sure they have all played the game for enough years to know if it goes through the hoop, you need let the ball bounce on it's own.
If you get a violation, you drop the ball or put it to the Referee.
Equally I hate players being told to keep their hands behind the line and also getting a warning. They know what they are doing and there is no difference to other aspects of the game that don't get a warning.
On saying the above, I am all for proactive officiating to reduce the stoppages in the game, but stopping the game to tell a 30 year old 200 game player that he is not allowed to tap the ball away after a basket it just BS.
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