TR
Years ago

Kyrie traded to Boston for Isaiah Thomas plus more

Seems that the Cavs have pulled the trigger and are trading Kyrie to the Celtics.

The C's will send Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and the Nets' 2018 first round pick for Irving.

That 2018 could well be the first pick in the draft.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Kyrie 25 yo.
IT 28 yo.

Throwing in that pick seems rash?

Reply #644514 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cavs win that trade on face value

Reply #644515 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

The pick is the strange part, it's unprotected and it's caused a bit of grief with Celtic fans.

Surely giving the Lakers or Sac-Town pick would of been better. Ainge should of put the 1st selection protection on it and if it rolled out 1st, then he gives them the Lakers pick plus an additional second.


The Nets roster is putrid as it's going to be a high lotto pick. Both Sac and Lakers will be better than the Nets (unless they go into full tank model like Chicago and Atlanta).

Reply #644517 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Isn't it surprising that they needed to offer a key pick at all? Crowder isn't hopeless. I don't think Kyrie is that outrageously good, but not like they're giving up a two way player in IT.

Reply #644519 | Report this post


AK-47  
Years ago

This deal is just as much about weakening the Cavs as it is making the Celtics better.

The deal doesn't get done unless:
1. Taytum is included in the deal, or
2. The Nets pick is in the deal.

Taytum helps the Celts beat the Cavs this year. The pick does not. Taytum COULD be better than Michael Porter (who would be the #1 pick at this point should the Nets win the lottery).

Kyrie is 25 years old. Proven on the biggest stage.
Thomas is 28, unproven on the biggest stage.

Kyrie can defend other point guards. Thomas couldn't defend a fart at a Mexican restaurant.

Kyrie is a proven performer when the offence does not revolve around him. Thomas is not.

Thomas will put up numbers but give me Kyrie come playoffs ANYTIME.

Reply #644521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cavs win this trade. Immediate rebuild ready for when LBJ DOES leave. That Nets pick was laughable to be throwing in, considering Kyrie wanted out anyways.

For me the side note of hidden leverage wouldve been, imagine Kyrie is a Cav opening night, no way that team would have harmony. They wouldve struggled this season with chemistry, and Celtics couldve had an easy run to the finals regardless. Celtics have given the Cavs a heartbeat.

Reply #644522 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

I don't think a 'complete' winner for this trade can be determined until that draft pick is decided.

I think right now the Cavs are better off. IT is an All-NBA'er, Crowder is a good and getting better 3D guy who will help Lebron now. Zizic could be a nice piece in the future.

Lebron walks at the end of the season then they don't re-sign IT and go Philly-style tank mode with a high lottery pick and a tonne of cap to rebuild with.

If that pick becomes the 1st then more people will hate it. If it drops to outside the top 5 then people will think Ainge is a genius while still holding the Lakers pick.

Who knows, this trade may get blown up if IT can't pass the physical.

Reply #644529 | Report this post


AngusH  
Years ago

Kyrie can do a lot of things, but defend opposing PGs is not one of them. He is a woeful defender, and has barely improved since his rookie year on that end of the court, which is a crime because it seems to be 90% effort, especially the way he gives up when screened. I'm not sure IT is even a downgrade on defense - closer to break even.

I'd give the overall edge to Kyrie based on age and playmaking ability, but it's not a wash.

Cavs got depth, a 2nd scoring option, and what should be a high draft pick. Celtics got the best single player in the trade and needed to clear out some playing time in the frontcourt. I think it's a good deal for both teams.

Reply #644534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow Cavs-Celts games are going to be even juicier now.

Reply #644536 | Report this post


AKA  
Years ago

On face value it seems the Cavs won this trade handsomely. One piece to make note of is that the best defender of LeBron in the East is in now playing for the Cavs in Crowder. Kyrie hasn't shown the ability to carry a team (his win/loss in games sans LBJ is woeful) whereas IT4 showed that ability last year. It seems an odd move by the Celtics.

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Isaac  
Years ago

AK-47, I'm leaning on the consensus of people who've watched more of these two than me, but I always got the impression that Kyrie was not much of a defender and didn't have a great record without LeBron? Plus he was keen to leave - they have to trade him or he will wreck their team.

Maybe there was legitimate competition for Kyrie and it forced Boston's hand, but I'm still surprised they felt it necessary to give up a good pick plus their "top" player and another solid player.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

i think Ainge was under pressure to trade for a big fish, he's been hoarding assets and missed out on Butler, George, Cousins, so he's rushed this one.

personally, I think it makes Cleveland better now with the added depth and the 1st is just a ridiculous bonus.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

But remember Boston still have stashed away a lot. Kyrie + future additions. Mmmm.

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Ingles13  
Years ago

Crowder is pretty underrated on here and around from what I've read. He's a great forward to pair with Lebron where they can play as the 3-4 duo when love is on the bench. Also someone pointed out above about how he's one of the best in the east at guarding Lebron and they took that away from the celts

Reply #644554 | Report this post


AK-47  
Years ago

Kyrie has done a pretty solid job defensively in the playoffs over the years. I'm not suggesting that he's going to lock down Westbrook or John Wall but he's certainly capable of sliding his feet and making them shoot over a hand. Thomas is an absolutely awful defender. Far, far worse than Irving.

I think it will become clear pretty quickly how much of an upgrade Kyrie is over Thomas. Don't forget this relatively serious hip injury that Thomas has. He's still got to pass a medical doesn't he?

I get that the first round pick is a big deal to people, it should be. But would people be losing their minds if the Celtics had included Taytum in the deal? I definitely don't think they'd be so outraged. Is there much difference between the two assets? Other than one is going to help you beat LeBron this year?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think its win win for both teams. Boston can't continue to stash assets like some on this thread seem to think. At a point they turn to win now mode and can't afford to keep waiting for young players to develop. They've now upgraded at the point and would have to be the favourite in the East now with their overall depth stacking up well against any team in the league and with a lot of the roster having upside. The Cats have got Thomas and Crowder who are both a good age to win now but to also build around the future if LeBron does in fact leave at the end of the season. The Brooklyn pick will give them a future building piece as well so that its not a complete meltdown of the franchise like last time when LeBron left.

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AKA  
Years ago

The Celtics will not be the favorite in the East. Until someone knocks the King of his throne, the East is his. This move is more of a future proof for the Celtics and not a win now situation. Kyrie is younger than Thomas and with guys like Tatum and Brown developing over the next few years they'll be a tough out once LBJ leaves the league. The Celtics gave up their best defender of LeBron in Crowder and they're go to go in Thomas. I'm not sure Kyrie is ready to lead a team of his own yet. I would argue this trade enhances Cleveland and makes the Celtics weaker for next season but beyond that, once James leaves Cleveland, it could tip the scales back in favor of Boston for season 18/19 and so on.

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TR  
Years ago

I'm not too sure if the future is all that bright for the Cavs unless Lebron re-signs.

When Lebron leaves at the end of the season I can't see the Cavs paying the max for IT. Crowder is on loose change for the next 3 season (2 + player option) so he's cheap.

Lebron leaving signals a complete rebuild and free entry to the tank brigade (playing in beast mode).

They trade Love for future picks and no one else on their roster has much value (maybe Thompson has a bit of value) or longevity (Rose, RJ, Calderon, Frye, Green, Korver are the wrong side of the age bracket).

Cleveland isn't high on the free agents 'destination of choice' without Lebron so they'll struggle to spend their cap.

When Lebron walks and they don't re-sign IT then in the 2018/2019 season their best player could be the 2018 draft pick and Jae Crowder. That's kinda messed up if you're a Cavs supporter.

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AngusH  
Years ago

I agree on the draft pick - people overvalue future picks big time. Next year's draft is expected to be deep though.

Still disagree on Kyrie's defense. As a pretty die-hard Cavs fan I've been watching him regularly since his rookie season and his work on D drives me nuts. I've seen a lot less of Thomas to be fair, but from what I have seen I don't consider it a tremendous downgrade, especially when Crowder gives us some flexibility as far as defending the perimeter goes.

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AKA  
Years ago

Spot on TR with you analysis of the Cavs position post LBJ. I think that's why it was so important to get the Nets 1st rounder off Boston in this trade. They'll be praying either Portor Jnr or Bagley will be a transcendent talent to begin their re-build around. The Crowder piece will help the Cavs play small ball against the Warriors this coming season next to LBJ. Is it enough to take the 'chip? I doubt it, but that's why the games get played!

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AngusH  
Years ago

@ TR; if LeBron leaves, one of the other nice things about this trade is it puts the Cavs in a reasonable position to rebuild. Let IT walk, look to move a few contracts (Love/TT), and use the Nets presumably high lottery pick to start the process.

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twenty four  
Years ago

Yeah I don't really get this one. Kyrie wanted out, Cavs needed to move him, yet if you were to read what the pieces were without knowing the background, you'd assume it was IT who had demanded a trade and the Celts who were desperate for a star in return, right?

Maybe the Nets pick ends up late lottery or something (though I highly doubt it), maybe Zizic doesn't amount to anything, maybe IT has a sharp decline, but still, it just seems ridiculous for Boston to give up a guy who averaged 29ppg and three other assets for someone who demanded to be traded.

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TR  
Years ago

Agreed Angus, that pick is a good start to the rebuild.

Problem I see is that it's Cleveland. If it was GS, Miami, LA, Spurs (due to Pop), NY (if the FO can ever get its crap together) etc then they are place free agents want to go, Cleveland isn't a free agent haven.

Other hot destinations are Minnesota and Philly, and that's due to the roster, young talent and future.

The big ticket free agents in 2018-19 are Westbrook, Devin Booker, CP3, Paul George, Jabari Parker (if he returns from another ACL), KAT, Porzingis, Simmons and Boogie (most are team/player options). I can't see any of them signing for the Cavs without Lebron being there or the Cavs having to pay massive overs as they are going to struggle, even in a weak East.

Bagley or Porter Jr (in their first year) won't be enough to entice top tier FA's to the Cavs and there is no young talent waiting on the roster to step up and fill the void.

Potentially the Cavs could have one of the worst rosters in the 2018/19 season (hence tank mode for a few seasons and pull a Philly). The trade of Love is really important.

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean that its a good thing (trust me on that, I support Charlotte).

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Boston will be top dog in east from 2018-19 onwards. Cleveland did well to get a top pick but they will stink in future, it's going to get ugly again for them. Long-term winner = Boston.

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AKA  
Years ago

Unfortunately for Boston, once their time comes a team with the talent like Philly have might start working out how to win! It's an interesting time in the East as teams setup for LeBron's departure weather that be next year or not long after that

Reply #644593 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

Ainge should be shitting bricks about Philly. They have the young talent (if it gels etc) to quickly overtake Boston. Plus, they could still do well in the 2018 draft as the Lakers pick (if it falls #2-5) could be conveyed to them.

Philly also has the potential and talent to attract top FA's. Add a top tier or even a few 2nd tier FA's to that group and they become a ECF contender.

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Isaac  
Years ago

I wonder if we'll see anything in LeBron's play if he's truly had it with the Cavs as a club/FO? A fair bit of their potential hinges on him.

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TR  
Years ago

Their short term future relies on him. He stays, then FA's will come. He goes, then they are in major strife. If he stays I think the Cavs will flip the Brooklyn pick into something big near the trade deadline.

The other team that Ainge should be worried about in the next 3-5 years is Milwaukee. Giannis and co could really put a dent in their aspirations.


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