Aussie
Two years ago

NBL's bold plans to grow

https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-west-australian/20171111/283167198843511

Thoughts?

I would be VERY cautious about adding another Melbourne and in particular, another WA team.

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TokotoRulz  
Two years ago

A second WA team would be awesome. Play them out of Challenge stadium.

But I don't know about them being operated by an AFL club.

There are lots of Wildcats fans ready to jump ship.

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Aussie  
Two years ago


"There are lots of Wildcats fans ready to jump ship"

What makes you say that? (Just curious)

Reply #656688 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I like the concept of football clubs being involved, since it would fit in nicely for their staff to have permanent year-round roles.
I don't know about another team in Perth though. The logistics of it worry me. I don't know that there's enough support to have 2 teams playing out of the expensive Perth Arena, but I also can't imagine any team or its fans wanting to go back to Challenge or whatever it's called these days.

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Aussie  
Two years ago

Yep. Challenge Stadium is in the middle of nowhere. Definately wouldn't work for a second team

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Anonymous  
Two years ago

Sounds like Melbourne is the bigger focus for now. The article did say that neither West Coast or Fremantle had been approached yet so the suggestion of a second WA side was probably just chucked in there because it was a WA paper.

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Aussie  
Two years ago

Perhaps a Victorian Country team would work?

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Anonymous  
Two years ago

Challenge Stadium is less than ten minutes from the city.

Reply #656693 | Report this post


KET  
Two years ago

It's not a bad idea. Again, I think LK is looking in the right direction. The only real complaint i've had during his era is the lack of transparency following the salary cap equity rule. That needs to be dealt with in some way as a matter of public confidence - keeping us in the dark is a problem even if they're actually doing it or found a system which has kept the NBL sides happy. I appreciate some or much of the information may be confidential, but it just needs to be approached in a way that informs the public in some way shape or form.

Anyway - save for the dilemma of diluting talent, I think it gets boring to be facing off against the same side multiple times within a few days or weeks. 12 sides remedies that.

He makes a good point: you want business acumen involved not hobby splash the cash. AFL/NRL sides have a benefit of sponsorship connections, members, top notch facilities and understanding the business of sports. They're also not in direct summer season competition.

He also is on a potentially good track in building cross town rivalry helps to increase a market, get the city more involved and improve the sports' reach into those core capital markets.

2018/19 a second Victorian team would be amazing, 2019/20 a NZ side and 2020/21 a Perth and Tassie or Canberra side. Introducing teams around and in the leadup to the Tokyo Olympics should be some decent momentum to piggyback.

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Haz  
Two years ago

Challenge Stadium is hardly in the middle of nowhere. What Challenge lacks in is modern amenities. Would be hard to get support for a 2nd Perth team if they play there. Plus the support would be thin as the Wildcats rule the West. Though I wouldnt say its impossible.

2nd teams in established markets is the way to go with Tasmania also included. There just isnt enough new markets to introduce new teams.

A 2nd Melbourne team - backed by an AFL club and a 2nd Sydney club - maybe backed by GWS - they back a netball team so why not an NBL club if there is interest.

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john  
Two years ago

A Western Sydney team would be viable i think.

Id be very wary of expanding too quickly and also diluting the quality.

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Anonymous  
Two years ago

I would rather see a lot of healthy teams than overcrowding in cities when we still dont have the fan base of NRL or AFL.

It would mostly disadvantage wildcats on sponsorship and a second WA team would struggle to recruit people from over east without a lot of money

More broadly the biggest issue I see is there is still lack of decent Australian talent. Add 2-3 more teams and it makes the quality of teams go down.

Reply #656699 | Report this post


Haz  
Two years ago

While its a good plan for the league to generate expanion, by getting AFL clubs on board, there is one thing I absolutely hate about the idea.

The AFL will impose its branding and will have its footprints everywhere. To some effect it will be to the detriment of the NBL, which will lose some of its own character and identity if its too closely linked to the AFL. We already get annoyed at AFL commentators calling NBL games so this is just the beginning!

Ive been following the Suncorp Netball league closely and can see that happening in that league. It has way too much AFL and NRL focus. Its like the netball sold itself out just to become bigger overnight without doing so organically.

Reply #656700 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Challenge Stadium is hardly in the middle of nowhere.

It's old, there is literally nothing else around it, for an area that's relatively central it's a pain to get to, and there is basically no public transport to it. About the only way it could be less appealing is if they moved it to Armadale, though at least then you could get there on the train.
So it's pretty unappealing IMO.
When you're a hardcore fan and you have no other choice then yes, you'll go there. But when the other team in town plays at Perth Arena, you immediately start at a significant disadvantage in getting people to games.

Reply #656701 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

More broadly the biggest issue I see is there is still lack of decent Australian talent. Add 2-3 more teams and it makes the quality of teams go down.

Conversely though, the small number of teams, combined with now having 3 imports, combined with having games only 40 minutes long, means limited opportunities for the younger locals I reckon.
Some Cats fans earlier commenting on the lack of progress with Kernich-Drew, which I agree about, but I think it's largely lack of opportunity. On one hand I wish we played him more, but on the other hand I get why we don't.
Spending multiple years getting only token minutes because the stakes are so high if you make a mistake, stifles the development of players IMO.
So there's a tradeoff necessary between having a super-strong league, and one that gives real opportunities to developing players.

Reply #656702 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

We want entertainment not the opportunity for subpar players to try and become good at the game while we pay to watch.

The NBL is not the NBA-D league its the main league of Australia. They can go and develop in the state league. If a player has any skill they will show in limited time they have. e.g. Adnam being a good example

How many top australians went straight overseas - these guys were talented not that they needed opportunity to learn to be good.

Reply #656705 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two years ago

I think there's enough Aussie talent for 2 more teams without a visible drop in quality on the court. End of benches will get shorter, but not sure that's such a bad thing either with 40 min quarters.

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Watto  
Two years ago

If they based the team in Armadale they would certainly lead the league in steals!

Reply #656708 | Report this post


Cats 4 life  
Two years ago

Balga and girrawheen won't be far behind.

Reply #656711 | Report this post


Cats 4 life  
Two years ago

Best part is if it happens I'll see my beloved cats extra 4 times a year!

Reply #656712 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Two years ago

Tend to agree with the posts about talent not being as big a problem with a couple more teams.

A new team would have probably 3 imports, a returning Aussie/NZ college player (Mitch McCarron, McDowell-White type). Then they'd aim to poach a fringe starter from an existing club. That gives a reasonable starting 5 then it's about the first 2-3 bench spots and the coaching staff. So you end up with shorter benches. But this year, I get the sense we're seeing teams playing >90% of their minutes with their first 8 players, with the starting 5 playing ~70%-75% of the minutes. If that's right, there's room to shorten the bench to 9 plus 2 scrubbers rather than 10+1 at the moment, without a massive drop in the entertainment value.

It's worth remembering that the NBL was thriving in the 1990s with 13+ teams per year, albeit with 2-3 perennial easybeats. For entertainment value, the 1990s NBL was pretty good. That's why it did well. A big difference now is that a lot of good Aussies are playing overseas. Compensating for that, almost all of NZ's best players have been added to the league, along with an additional import per team. So we may have lost 4-5 teams' worth of talented Aussies but we've added a team's worth of NZ talent and room for another team's worth of imports.

Reply #656713 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Better not tell Hobart about that article.

Reply #656714 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Odd that they were omitted, yeah.
I think a new city makes more sense at this point than doubling up in Perth, Melb, Syd.
Provided the finances stack up, of course.
Wellington still seems the best next location to me.

Reply #656717 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Two years ago

Watto

An Armadale (West Oz) prison/JJ centre reference?

Or an aspersion on the fine students at Uni of New England?

I once stole the ball from Ernest Zigamazabo (spelling?) in JJ centre, and beat him in knockout. Ex NBL scrub vs ex junior scrub. I was just doing my job, not there by Magistrate's invitation.







Reply #656721 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

I'm pretty certain by now TokotoRulz is a troll account

Reply #656722 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Two years ago

The linkage between an AFL and another sporting code has started with the Netball. I remember an interview with Eddie commenting how he wants to make Collingwood the "Manchester United" of Australia, some already say it is the Arse nal.

Reply #656725 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Two years ago

But does AFL really want to promote a competitor to the netball and AFLW summer sports they already promote???

They may have an interest in gaining converts from basketball to AFL, but why would they support the opposition in their developing netball and AFLW markets?

Both of these sports/products are currently placed in the summer sports marketplace.


Reply #656726 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two years ago

Wow, so LK yet again taking credit for ideas that have been around for years.
Had to laugh about his comment regrading "hobbyists." Pot, meet kettle.

But yes, for the record, I like the idea of football clubs getting involved. They already have the people and systems in place to handled marketing sponsorship, memberships, contracts, etc. Plus they're not going to fold at the first sign of trouble. I think in Melbourne there would be huge attraction for the inner-city clubs that are in a constant fight for new members.

As for a 2nd team in Perth, going for a Fremantle/SOR connection is the logical choice, but I wonder if there's enough intrinsic support there?

People suggesting a return to Challenge are either 12 years old, not actually from Perth, or just trolling.
The Wildcats moved to Challenge because they had no choice. The govt of the day bollocksed up the original deal to build the Arena, and the PEC was closed.

They would simply need to subsidize games at the Arena until their crowds grew sufficiently.
If they priced their memberships keenly, they should attract a few thousand family members because there are no decent seats left for Wildcats games.

Reply #656728 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

An afl club being involved in Melbourne would be a disaster. If they think the fan base was splintered before, try getting fans of the other 9 Victorian teams to support a team backed by Collingwood

Reply #656788 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

"An afl club being involved in Melbourne would be a disaster. If they think the fan base was splintered before, try getting fans of the other 9 Victorian teams to support a team backed by Collingwood"

You wouldn't need to. Collingwood has a bigger member base than any NBL club.

Reply #656890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Why would the second Perth team need to play out of Challenge Stadium? Just play at Perth Arena too. The Lakers and Clippers share the same stadium.

Reply #656891 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two years ago

They both have fanbases big enough to support that.

Reply #656892 | Report this post


paul  
Two years ago

Having a rivalry between the Perth Wildcats and West Coast Eagles, two iconic Perth clubs, not sure how it would work, not being from over there, but it sounds intriguing.

And if it was Collingwood in the NBL as the second Melbourne team, you'd all of a sudden have a lot more Melbourne United fans!

Reply #656902 | Report this post


proud  
Two years ago

In an article from years back Nick Marvin said that Wildcats needed to have 11000 seats filled to pay for hire of Perth Arena each game, new team surely wouldn't do that regardless of who they call themselves.

This idea sounds like something St. George/Illawarra should take advantage of and try and get in early and be that club with affiliations and share sponsors that can be seen year round for heaps more than both clubs are being paid.

Sucks to be Tasmania, I want them in.

I've said on this site for years that I want Geelong FC to affiliate with the Supercars and use their training facilities and everything else at their disposal and that got shot down due to a tin shed of a stadium but Geelong FC have a very smart business plan, a loyal fan base, they won't take fans away from United in Melbourne and you know that initially that will please Larry.

What is the relationship like between the Cowboys and the Taipans, is it frosty due to reptile rumble battles or have they visited the same communities from time to time? Could they have some sort of affiliation considering Townsville won't even be thought of for a team again for atleast another 20 years (how long has it been for Newcastle and Canberra) and there are no A-League, cricket or union teams to compete with.

My biggest concern is poaching and we all know that AFL takes the best basketball juniors they can if they can influence them with what opportunities that sport offers. If they are that involved with an NBL team you just know that a star junior will appeal more to them as a potential AFL player than someone for their summer hobby.

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Kr  
Two years ago

Townsville and cairns are 4 hours away from each other so unlikely to be any benefit sharing staff facilities etc. Townsville croc o boys on the other hand!

Reply #656915 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

"They both have fanbases big enough to support that."

They should study it carefully before they open the 2nd franchise. If they don't believe it has a sustainable ability to attract more than 4,000 fans, then maybe they need to consider whether it is worth having a 2nd team or not.

Reply #656930 | Report this post


Perth Wilburs  
Two years ago

Bendigo works well for a second Victorian team, does OK in the WNBL.

Tasmania should get a team, Canberra too, a second team in NZ would be good.

A second team in WA would have to be placed in either Mandurah or Bunbury I think.

It's stupid to have AFL team names as NBL team names. Netball has Collingwood Magpies, and Giants etc and it sucks.

Give unique names to NBL teams but can be backed by AFL teams.

Plus not all AFL fans are interested in basketball, or if they are most are just interested in NBA.

NBL teams backed by AFL teams has merit, but not sharing the same names/colours etc.

Reply #656941 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Canberra has been mentioned before. Certainly I heard that if Wellington had to pay a licence fee to enter they weren't interested.

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Anonymous  
Two years ago

I can't believe no one can see this for what it is so it's to comment.

LK's China ambitions were sunk so now in desperation he is going to a new angle - AFL/NRL clubs.

LK wants to grow the league which is great but at the end of the day he is a businessman and wants to see a return or at least improve the league so it is self sustaining.

Dreams of China were scuttled but rival sports siding with you isn't the answer though. Desperation has gone up a notch.

Reply #657101 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

The AFL already tried alignment with a summer sport league in the late 90s in the form of NSL teams.

There were two such clubs - Collingwood Warriors and Carlton SC. They survived one and three seasons respectively before disbanding as the AFL clubs gave up before even giving it a chance. Plus rival AFL fans weren't interested in these teams so they had a capped potential fanbase from the start. AFL clubs have passion for their own sport not other ones so at the first sign of adversity they gave up on the premise. Laughable that this old idea is now being rehashed by LK.

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Luuuc  
Two years ago

You sure Bendigo does well in the WNBL, Wilburs?

Reply #657104 | Report this post


proud  
Two years ago

Ouch Luuuc, that pic is damning mate, I keep thinking that Bendigo needs a more up to date stadium and not a tin shed to warrant a team and as much as I love the great folk of Bendigo, if they aren't going to games then they aren't worthy of a team.

Canberra should be way ahead of that thinking, bring back the mighty Cannons

Reply #657118 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Two years ago

Tasmania,what a joke. The league punted the Crocs for having 2500 a night. Roo's v GWS couldn't get 4000 in Hobart to that game,no chance for an NBL team EVER!

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Anonymous  
Two years ago

I agree. You need to build a professional arena to get people to pay their money to be entertained.

Reply #657236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Gotta love the dickheads sprouting the truth about the Kangas Vs GWS.
Austadiums says this:
8,758 08/04/17 Australian Football AFL: North Melbourne v GWS Giants
Clearly Logjam hasn't a clue about the truth.

Reply #657303 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Still a pathetic crowd.

Reply #657307 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Yeah strange that. Tasmanians going to support the Kangas or the Giants in Hobart. Nearly 9000 is pathetic.

Reply #657320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

It is because you aren't making a profit without subsidies. So does not bode well for NBL expansion there.

Reply #657322 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two years ago

9000 would be a pretty decent NBL crowd. And nobody in Tasmania really has any reason to care about either North Melbourne or GWS.

Reply #657324 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Two years ago

9000 would be a great NBL crowd.
What was the capacity of the Derwent centre ?

Reply #657328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Canberra shouldn't be on the list for expansion. It is a non-sports town. Teams always seem to fold there.

Reply #657333 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

9,000 was also a once or twice a year novelty event crowd. Not great.

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