OzBaller
Last year

#42299

Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

Flopping wasn't a problem until the whole one warning then technical business came about. If you don’t falll over you don’t get the charge but if you fall over you get the flop warning. Seems to be a catch 22
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Brunson
Last year
20:47 2 Dec 17

Reply #660129

re: Flopping

1. Flopping has been a problem for a long time.

2. "If you don't falll over you don’t get the charge but if you fall over you get the flop warning". What a massive contradiction to your first sentence where you implied that people are flopping. Now you are saying it doesn't happen. Which one is it?

End of the day people are exaggerating the contact and are rightly being called for it.


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Melbourne Boy
Last year
21:15 2 Dec 17

Reply #660131

re: Flopping

The rule is a joke, what do you teach now?

It's correct, if you don't fall you don't draw a charge, so do we have to teach appropriate acting skills to not over sell the contact and get a flop, but just enough of a sell to get the call? Pro teams will get stuntman in soon to teach the fall just as they do in soccer, and that's not even a joke.

If the refs just paid charges when there is strong contact taken by the defensive player in correct position without falling things would be fixed, and players would learn to keep their feet and play strong D.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:18 2 Dec 17

Reply #660132

re: Flopping

Well said Nelbourne Boy


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Anonymous
Last year
22:59 2 Dec 17

Reply #660139

re: Flopping

Yep, another to agree with Melbourne Boy. You can't refuse to call a charge unless the defender falls over, and then penalise the defence for falling over in order to draw the call. Call a charge where the offence initiates significant contact with a legally positioned defender, regardless of the player falling down or not, and there wouldn't be a need to flop. Then, penalising 'flopping' would be perfectly reasonable, because it wouldn't be the only way to get the damn call!

The shift to officiate the game far more heavily in favour of the offence will be interesting to watch. More scoring is great but cricket has gone too far in favour of scoring, and is a LESS entertaining game for the lack of contest between bat and ball. I hope basketball doesn't follow exactly the same path because watching what basically amounts to 5v5 HORSE doesn't appeal to me.


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D2
Last year
00:01 3 Dec 17

Reply #660146

re: Flopping

I don't understand why there needs to be a penalty for flopping?
If its left as a no-call, with the defender on his back, isn't that enough of a penalty?


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Anonymous
Last year
02:37 3 Dec 17

Reply #660153

re: Flopping

I don't understand why there needs to be a penalty for flopping?
If its left as a no-call, with the defender on his back, isn't that enough of a penalty?


Not quite. Lots of players flop without falling over. Look at people flicking their heads back every time someone comes near them. Also, any flop away from an easy scoring position would just be a free attempt at currying favour from a ref.


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UseTaHoop
Last year
07:23 3 Dec 17

Reply #660155

re: Flopping

Is this all down to NBL refs not calling charging fouls correctly? If a charge is there call it, regardless of the effect it has on the defensive player.

Perhaps NBL refs need to be educated on the difference between cause and effect.

If they called based on "cause" they'd be basing the call on the contact initiated by the offensive player.

As it’s currently called, it looks like the refs are making calls based on the “effect” the contact creates in the defensive player.

Maybe if the refs watched the type and force of the initial contact and concentrated on that (to the exclusion of the “effect” on the defensive player) they could judge on the actions of the offending player alone. Ie illegal use of contact or force would be called regardless of whether or not the defensive player sells the contact through bad acting.

If defensive players had confidence that a charging offence would be called regardless of what their reaction was, there would be no incentive to sell the contact through bad acting or flopping.


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Southern Joe
Last year
08:17 3 Dec 17

Reply #660156

re: Flopping

Yep.

Players' need to sell calls comes from the lack of calls defensive players had been getting historically.

Selling has happened on offence & defence to get calls in favour. Problem is, a ref then has the extra task of discerning whether a player is selling because he WANTS the call his way or he KNOWS it should be his way.

Refs at all levels have long been inconsistent with charge calls, so its no surprise that many players want to sell their cause to get the call.

Hand push offs & elbow push offs by offence players have come to such a point of not being correctly called that they become a surprise when they are actually called .. like the one against Cairns last night.. but by then the damage had been done by questionable officiating way before then.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:45 3 Dec 17

Reply #660160

re: Flopping

There is a thing of over exaggerating contact like tommy garelp for terrible acting so he deserved the tech.

The amount of times an offensive player yells when goingin for a drive has lead to these calls. Got to stop it. Makes the game look like a joke.

But agree penantly should be changed to the same for ilegal d where its just a free throw.


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koberulz
Last year
11:25 3 Dec 17

Reply #660164

re: Flopping

There is no "illegal D".


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Anonymous
Last year
12:15 3 Dec 17

Reply #660166

re: Flopping

Not un fiba rules obviously but my point was on the penalty for flopping should be the same. Sorry for not been so technical


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Anonymous
Last year
12:24 3 Dec 17

Reply #660167

re: Flopping

The real "add-on" problem getting a technical for flopping is now the player puts himself in ejection territory. Another technical foul or Unsportsmanlike foul and they are ejected. Means you have to play smart after the T because with the new rules for Unsportsmanlike fouls in transition it becomes very easy to get a second technical or Unsportsmanlike foul


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koberulz
Last year
12:37 3 Dec 17

Reply #660169

re: Flopping

Not un fiba rules obviously but my point was on the penalty for flopping should be the same. Sorry for not been so technical
Both are penalised by an initial warning followed by a technical foul for each further infringement.


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Anonymous
Last year
13:46 3 Dec 17

Reply #660171

re: Flopping

i remember during the Patty Mills year when he pulled off some ridiculous flops hoping they would use video to penalise the bad flops.

instead they've dumped it on the refs to try and make a call. charge/block was already one of the toughest calls in the game and they added flopping to it, to make it harder.


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Anonymous
Last year
13:52 3 Dec 17

Reply #660172

re: Flopping

Mills' infamous flop was lauded by Bogut at the time as being doing whatever it takes to help his team win.


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Anonymous
Last year
14:36 3 Dec 17

Reply #660175

re: Flopping

U cannot get a technical foul for iilegal defense dude. 2 illegal defenses doesnt mean an ejection


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Anonymous
Last year
14:52 3 Dec 17

Reply #660180

re: Flopping

Talking fiba rules nba fan boy


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Anonymous
Last year
16:30 3 Dec 17

Reply #660190

re: Flopping

The refs have created this rod for their backs in 2 ways:
1) not calling charges properly, unless:
2) players exaggerated the contact by flopping, then rewarding flops.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:40 3 Dec 17

Reply #660198

re: Flopping

the sooner NBL adapts from FIBA the better.

And i do stand corrected on the 2 Technicals but they are bench technicals for illegal Defence not player techs so i stand by my original point.

Get rid of the tech-award 1 free throw and play on


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Anonymous
Last year
18:42 3 Dec 17

Reply #660200

re: Flopping

^why


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PeterJohn
Last year
18:49 3 Dec 17

Reply #660201

re: Flopping

Has the flopping rule reduced the amount of flopping in games? To me players seem to be landing on the ground as much as ever. i.e., it hasn't done what it was intended to do. If that's right, then either change it to something that works or get rid of it.

That said, I don't watch as much NBL as others on this forum.


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Pop
Last year
10:19 4 Dec 17

Reply #660225

re: Flopping

Yep, call illegal contact by the attacking player consistently and the flopping issue largely goes away.

'Flopping' targets only the defence, though I think I did see a shooter collapsing after a 3-point attempt called for it a few weeks ago.

If we must have it [and as above, I'd ignore it and focus on aiming to call illegal contact accurately and consistently] let's go to 'simulation' so all acting to gain advantage, including hand and head throws by attacking players, comes under scrutiny.

However, recent history says that would be a recipe for disaster, given the quality of our officials.

Let's keep it simple - or as simple as it can be - and go back to calling the actual rules of the game. That's a tough enough gig without complicating things by asking refs to make even more subjective - and so inherently inconsistent - calls.



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Anonymous
Last year
10:21 4 Dec 17

Reply #660226

re: Flopping

The actual rules of the game include Flopping. These aren't NBL rules, applies to all levels across the world.


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Camel 31
Last year
10:28 4 Dec 17

Reply #660227

re: Flopping

For me , I think the player that Randle unsportsmanlikely fouled flopped as much as garlepp did...


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Anonymous
Last year
14:34 5 Dec 17

Reply #660371

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

The issue would be dealt with much better by a fine system implemented by the league, similar to the NBA but on a smaller scale of course.
The refs have more than enough on their plate during the game than to try and judge flops in real time. It can only be a hindrance on the rest of their game.
Take it out of their hands, make their job easier and just fine the players at the end of each round. I'm sure you'll find when it hits their back pocket it won't be as prevalent.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:52 5 Dec 17

Reply #660382

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

It isn't that hard to call it properly, also if they were in doubt they can go to the reply, but they don't do that either.

This one is on the ref's


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Isaac
Last year
16:55 5 Dec 17

Reply #660392

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

I don't mind the idea of fines, but if the fines are paltry, you might just have rich owners saying "Keep taking risks, I'll pay the fines."

An alternative is a warning and then single-game suspensions for the worst floppers.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:10 5 Dec 17

Reply #660394

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

#660382 referees cannot review a judgement call so things such as flopping cannot be reviewed by video. Nice try but no this is not #ontherefs


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D2.0
Last year
00:18 6 Dec 17

Reply #660417

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

The whole concept still does my head in.
You're penalising a player for attempting to deceive a Ref, by exaggerating the effect on contact.
But, you judge this exaggeration based on your assessment of both the contact and the effect??
So why not just ignore the 2nd part and just concentrate on calling the contact correctly in the first place.


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paul
Last year
10:51 6 Dec 17

Reply #660431

re: Is flopping getting worse in the NBL?

Exactly D 2.0, if someone flops let them lie on the floor. If there is contact while they're on the ground it's a blocking foul. That's the best way to get rid of flopping.

Re the original question, no it's not getting worse it's just being talked about a lot. What we think of now as flops used to just be charges not so long ago.


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