Craig
Last year

Cats Lost Hall of Fame Legends Jersey??

After the Sydney Kings this week paid tribute to C.J Bruton, recognising his contribution to the team. With class the organisation hung his jersey in the rafters where it will be a permanent reminder of the many great moments he gave the Kings fans.

Another person who dazzeled the fans and changed WA basketball for ever is
C.J's father Mr Cal Bruton.

Cal not just put WA basketball on the map but was instrumental in recruiting and building a great club. My Question is :

WHY IS MR CAL BRUTONS JERSEY NOT BEEN RETIRED AND HUNG FROM THE RAFTERSHIS YEARS OF SERVICE ????????????

The great man deserves the recognition.. Perth Management you need to make it happen or atleast respect Mr Bruton and your fans by giving us an explination on why this legends jersey must lost or at large :)

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Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Haha 'Cats fans are gone. Cooked. God almighty this is glorious.

Craig, I don't know where the jersey is

Reply #668628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

settle down mate. He played a total of three seasons for the Wildcats and coached 1 after sacking Alan Black after two games. Then when the Cats wanted a real coach the following year he cracked it and left.

Reply #668629 | Report this post


Cats 4 life  
Last year

Yeah, it's getting a bit sad with all these threads. We are playing finals won 3 out 4 years, still a chance this season and still people hang in shite on the cat's.

Reply #668630 | Report this post


TimberBall  
Last year

wow, settle down mate. Fenton (died before finals game), Ellis, Grace, Fisher, Vlahov, JC, Redhage (soon to be... you really think spending 3 seasons at a team puts you up there? Jermaine Beal should be up there to I guess.

Reply #668631 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Might have only been three seasons but Cal will always be an important part of their legacy. Almost every long time Perth fan got on board because of Cal.

Reply #668641 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

There's only physical space for so many jerseys up there now that there's all those damn title banners cluttering up the place, and only so many numbers we can retire. We need to keep a lid on it because jerseys would look pretty bad with 3-digit numbers on them.

Reply #668649 | Report this post


Haz  
Last year

Be that as it may, but 3 playing seasons and 1 as coach and GM does not get your jersey retired.

Bruton was a huge part of the clubs popularity. But was only a part of it for 4 seasons total. He was also popular because of the things he achieved off the court - as a recruiter, manager, coach and publicity genius. Wildcats retire jerseys based on their time as players only and they usually go for longeivity. (aside from the late Fenton)

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Another Anon  
Last year

I'm starting to think there's a few too many Cats troll threads happening round here.

Reply #668656 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Still have Knight and Martin's singlets to retire in coming years. Need more rafters.

Reply #668657 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Heres a simple test, without looking it up Cats fans, whats his playing number, especially Craig. If you don't know it then he couldn't have had too big an impact.

Reply #668663 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

55

Every kid born in the 80s would know that answer. He may have only been with the club for four years but that run, gun and have some fun style he brought made ALOT of people interested in basketball back in the day, and he is a major reason the Cats used to pack out the old Superdrome, now of course HBF Stadium. Not entirely sure about number retirement, but I do agree the Cats need to honour him in some manner

Reply #668665 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Heres a simple test, without looking it up Cats fans, whats his playing number, "

You've got to be kidding...

Reply #668667 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

But I bet the vast majority of Wildcat fans that still have the price tags on their Martin jerseys would have no idea.

Reply #668677 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Was that meant to be an insult? And people reckon Cats fans are losing their minds!

Reply #668680 | Report this post


Yinka Dare  
Last year

Most Perth fans from the late 80s would know Bruton wore 55. It's a number not many players wear. Bruton did change Perth and recruited some of the best imports to play in the nbl. For this I do think he should have his number retired. Cats were terrible before Bruton joined.

I think part of the reason his number isn’t retired is that he left on bad terms with past owner Kerry stokes. I believe Briton wanted to be player/coach but stokes wouldn’t allow that. He then got sacked and went to Hobart devils.

Think even though his time was short he put basketball on the map in Perth. He was recognised by everyone back then and turned a terrible team into a team that has not missed finals since.

Reply #668712 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

He modelled the Perth team after the Ken Coles 36ers invincibles team that only dropped 2 games in the season (both by 2 points). The start of Perths successful era I guess.

Reply #668722 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Last year

What's happening in the West?

Cats fans seem a bit edgy, like a cat on a hot tin roof

Reply #668726 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Yeah, I'm with those saying he doesn't have the longevity to warrant his jersey being up on the wall.

I'm not sure how much credit he deserves for the off-court stuff either. He came in right at the start of Bob Williams' ownership, so a lot was going to be changing around that time anyway. They had a TV deal and an agreement to play at the Superdrome long before Cal was signed.

Reply #668756 | Report this post


Anonomous  
Last year

He wasn't all that popular with 'cats management around that time either as he was the agent/manager for several imports and demanded a lot from the 'cats and SBL clubs.

Reply #668758 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

Cal was the ultimate showman.
Yes it's obvious that once a rich guy decides to pump a bunch of money into signing top players, on-court improvement is pretty much a given, but Cal was the guy who sold it to the Perth public and made them care about the NBL. He was front and centre of the promotion, and the media & public ate it up.
That legacy lives on today, and IMO even though that was 30 years ago, the Run & Stun era Wildcats resonated so well with Perth that Cal is still partly to thank for Perth Arena being full now. Those same kids who were the coolest on the court because they had a Black Pearl basketball, are now bringing their families to games. I've got friends who would struggle to name a current player but would still remember Cal, JC, Grace, Ellis & Pinder.

I agree that it's debatable whether his jersey should be up there. If it was up to me, it definitely would be.
But I also can't expect people who weren't even alive in that era to get why. And therefore the more time that passes, the less likely it becomes.

Reply #668763 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Cal was such a wheeler dealer, no wonder he became a cars salesman. Apparently the man owns the largest personal collection of NBL footage on the planet.

Reply #668764 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I want the Run and Stun era back. So bored of the sludgeball that is played today that I follow the league in general rather than solely on the Cats.

Reply #668765 | Report this post


maxymoo  
Last year

Murray Arnold's version of run & stun was better.

Reply #668772 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

FFS Carfino is a Hall of Fame member and played a relatively few NBL seasons.
Cal in the end was hated. GF and then sacked. Says it all.
Outstanding personality and character of the NBL and still is a legend.
So are we retiring singles based on likeability now?

Reply #668782 | Report this post


Yinka Dare  
Last year

Murray Arnold introduced the most boring basketball the cats ever played. Got them wins but wasn't exciting

Reply #668786 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

Absolutely Cal Bruton's number 55 should be hanging from the rafters! I don’t give a damn about the fact he coached only 3 seasons (don’t forget he was player/ coach in 1987 & 1988) it’s much more about the IMPACT he had rather than the longevity of his stay. He accomplished more between 1987 til 1991 than many clubs do in 10-15 years.
He was the main person responsible for building the popularity of the sport in WA. As Mike Ellis once said, at Perry Lakes when they played there they had "2 men and a dog" sitting in the stands, within one season Cal had not only packed out their (then new) 5500 capacity stadium, but also had lots of people sleeping overnight in the streets to get playoff tickets.
Sadly he gets remembered more for sacking Alan Black rather than what he did eighth. By the way, didn’t Vlahov sack Blackie too a few years later and it hasn’t counted against him in anyway. The fact was that the Ellis’s, Steve Davis, and several others were tight with Alan Black which led to a player mutiny. From memory the ultimatum was delivered by Stokes at a players only meeting in Sydney after a blowout loss when Cal got ejected. Most of the players (except Grace and Crawford I believe) asked Stokes to get rid of Cal and Stokes said he will oblige only if they win the Championship first. They did win the Championship and the rest was history.

Reply #668787 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

Isn't it funny how history repeats.. a players only meeting following a blowout loss in Sydney! I wonder if the players called for Gleesons head on a platter like they did to Cal all those years ago.

Reply #668788 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

Speaking of Murray Arnold, the great JC once said he was the best ever coach for him as a player.. that's a pretty good rap. Murray instituted a defensively oriented style which was the direction the game was heading during that era. Arnold was a great coach no doubt about it but also Cal was too, albeit a far different style of play.

Reply #668789 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Yes it's obvious that once a rich guy decides to pump a bunch of money into signing top players, on-court improvement is pretty much a given, but Cal was the guy who sold it to the Perth public and made them care about the NBL.
But would he have been able to achieve any of that if they were still playing at Perry Lakes in front of two thousand people with no TV?

Reply #668790 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

Cal sold it to the TV people as well. Basketball could not have had a better ambassador than Cal in those days, he was the only one with the charisma and swagger to sell it to a football mad public- don't forget the WC Eagles started in 1986 or 1987 as well. He laid the foundations of the 30 year playoff run, in jeopardy this year also perhaps. He was the start of the Wildcats becoming legitimate.

Reply #668792 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

The TV deal was in place long before Cal arrived.

Reply #668794 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

I wasn't aware of it being slated for tv coverage prior to Cal. It did become live coverage locally during his time though, probably due to the fact that tickets sold like hot cakes and live coverage would’ve had no effect on ticket sales.
We wouldn’t have got JC or Tiny without Cal, both of whom were awesome ballers and two of the biggest reasons for the sudden turn around to winning games/ playoff appearances consistently.

Reply #668798 | Report this post


Haz  
Last year

Regardless of all that - which makes him one of the most important people at the club in context of what he did and his popularity - it was still done in only 4 seasons total. 3 as a player. Its just not long enough to get his jersey retired.

Also lets not get too carried away with the hype. Basketball was booming all over the country. It wasnt just a Perth/Bruton thing. i guess clubs need to draw a line with who gets the honour of their jersey retired.

Not knocking him though. I think Bruton is an absolute legend. But his time at Perth was just one (small but significant) part of his great career.

Reply #668800 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

I wasn't aware of it being slated for tv coverage prior to Cal. It did become live coverage locally during his time though, probably due to the fact that tickets sold like hot cakes and live coverage would've had no effect on ticket sales.
The deals with Channel 9 and the Superdrome were both signed before the end of the 1986 season, while Cal was playing for the Bullets.

We wouldn’t have got JC or Tiny without Cal
Why not? I would suggest they were far more interested in Bob Williams' money than they were in playing with/for Bruton.

If not them, it would've been others. The money arrived mid-86, Cal was just part of it. There's a reason the uptick all happened in his first season - it had been in the works for some time before that.

Reply #668803 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

But would he have been able to achieve any of that if they were still playing at Perry Lakes in front of two thousand people with no TV?

Perry Lakes was tiny. It wouldn't have even held 2000 people. So I don't get what the hypothetical point would have been to attract spectators that couldn't get in plus potential viewers who couldn't watch.
Anyway you've missed my point, which was that on-court results alone don't always equate to filling a new big stadium or getting people tuning in, especially when it's a sport that has basically never been televised before in that city other than during the Olympics, and one that the general public does not understand. Cal was a promoter's dream because he was charismatic and loved attention, plus he played a flashy brand of basketball, which helped it catch on as well. But he got people engaged with himself and the players first, and made them want to learn about the actual sport.
Random kids with no major interest in sport were suddenly getting basketballs and trying to learn fancy dribbling sequences and look-away passes, and the few rings at the school were suddenly in crazy demand during lunch break. Basketball in Perth went from virtually zero profile to huge by the time season 2 was underway, and Cal was everywhere. I'd equate him to Nic Naitanui-level in terms of general recognition factor in that it went beyond just sport followers. JC was the standout player of the team with a crazy scoring average, but what was the basketball being sold? The Black Pearl.
Not only was basketball a new thing for Perth, but so was having our own Viv Richards-esque smooth talking, fly-dressing black athlete. (Which just reminded me that the first time I ever snuck into a nightclub he was there ... he was popular in that environment too).

Reply #668810 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Perry Lakes was tiny. It wouldn't have even held 2000 people. So I don't get what the hypothetical point would have been to attract spectators that couldn't get in plus potential viewers who couldn't watch.
That's pretty much my point. Cal was only able to do what he did because of the new stadium and the TV deal, both of which were done before he arrived at the club.

And that's assuming you give Cal all the credit, but I doubt they moved to the Superdrome without knowing they could sell well more than 2000 tickets, or that Channel 9 jumped on board without knowing they would get viewers.

Reply #668815 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last year

Unfortunately this is what happens in Perth, people lose their jobs, get bored, and start abusing drugs.

Coaches, Managers, Owners, "Promoters," etc, etc, do not get their numbers retired, no matter how much they might have contributed to the team or the sport in general.

And players have to make an extraordinary contribution over a long time.

I'm not sure what would be the appropriate way to recognise his contribution?
But retiring his number just isn't an option.

Reply #668829 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

I'm not attempting to give Cal all the credit, kr. Just pointing out that his contribution to the franchise is significantly greater than a few seasons of boxscore numbers.

Reply #668833 | Report this post


Haz  
Last year

While it hasnt been officially retired as such (im in the camp that is against the idea), is 55 a number that is allowed to be worn? I realise its not a common number, but
I would doubt any player - current or new - would want to wear that number.

And I would guess that the Wildcats would probably advise any new player to not go for that number, as a sign of respect to Bruton.

Could be an 'internal club only' level of respect, rather than one which has his jersey up there for the fans to see. There would be other ways to honor a past great who made a contribution other than having a long playing career.

Reply #668834 | Report this post


Ridic  
Last year

I am sorry this is utterly ridiculous. Based off the logic above shown by some armchair experts {KR in particular}, Greg Hire should then have his number retired by the club due to years of service, amount of championships won - yet a guy who UNDOUBTEDLY put the sport in the public eye as well as in the media (Papers / TV News) in this state shouldn't at least be acknowledged in some way, maybe not his number being retired but surely something. Give me twenty Bruton's before one Gleeson

Reply #668835 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

While it hasnt been officially retired as such (im in the camp that is against the idea), is 55 a number that is allowed to be worn?
Damo wore it for a period of time when he first came to Perth.

I'm not attempting to give Cal all the credit, kr. Just pointing out that his contribution to the franchise is significantly greater than a few seasons of boxscore numbers.
Sure. But I don't think it's as great as it often seems to be claimed. Pretty sure he took credit for a lot of stuff in his book that was well underway long before he got there.

I'm not sure what would be the appropriate way to recognise his contribution?
But retiring his number just isn't an option.
A part of me wants it to happen now, just to see you staunchly defend that decision too.

Based off the logic above shown by some armchair experts {KR in particular}, Greg Hire should then have his number retired by the club
Nobody said anything about Greg Hire.

Reply #668842 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

Cal Bruton would be more suitably honoured by the NBL.

He was the face of 3 teams (at least to my knowledge) in Geelong, Brisbane and Perth.

When his team played away, he was the player the home fans most recognised.

Just googled it. Cal was inducted into NBL Hall of Fame. Fair call.

Reply #668845 | Report this post


Baller  
Last year

kobe, pretty sure ridic said based on the above logic then Hire would be up for number retirement - do you even read bro or just skim then provide your synopsis?

Reply #668848 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Yeah KR has done it again.

Reply #668859 | Report this post


Mock  
Last year

People say us Cats fan are losing our minds. We are simply NOT. We are defiant.

On Cal, he is a great man for sure. He probably didn't play enough at the Cats to justify retiring his jersey but I would sure as hell SALUTE that bad boy if they do decide to hang it up.

Reply #668860 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

kobe, pretty sure ridic said based on the above logic then Hire would be up for number retirement
That has nothing to do with anything anyone's said in this thread either.

Reply #668889 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

It actually does love. If your ego allowed your brain to function half normally for two minutes you would be able to see the connection. But alas as always you're right, everyone else is wrong

Reply #668904 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

I suggest remedial reading comprehension classes.

Reply #668908 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

I just remember that Perth were duds with no fans before he rocked up. Could have gone either way without him but things certainly changed when he got there.

Reply #668913 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Things changed before he got there, which was why he ended up there in the first place.

Reply #668914 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Well if you say so. You clearly know it all.

Reply #668920 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

I think it's a bit arrogant to say I know everything just because I know more than you.

Reply #668973 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Most people know more than you and are right. You don't like to hear that. But it's true.

Reply #669152 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

I can't help but notice you haven't actually attempted to address anything I've said.

Reply #669156 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Why would anyone waste time on you?

Reply #669200 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

You're wasting plenty of time on me. You're just not addressing any of my actual arguments, because I'm not actually wrong.

Reply #669202 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

My kids were fighting in the car before...

Reply #669204 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Kobe what makes you think that you are, as you say 'because i'm actually not wrong' about everything? Do everyone a favour and instead of talking a whole bunch of BS behind a stupid ID, actually provide us with your name so we actually might respect you more if indeed we can put a face to the name, then we can also see that your opinion and knowledge is as in depth as you would have us believe. Otherwise stop telling every other punter on this forum that whenever their opinion differs to yours, that they are wrong. You're not the voice of the Wildcats; You're knowledge of the SBL is amateurish at best; Provide us with real evidence that this fountain of knowledge you possess actually has some basis or do everyone a favour and keep your ill informed opinions to yourself

Reply #669211 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

I'm still waiting for someone to dispute an actual point.

If you think I'm wrong about something it ought to be trivial to identify what that thing is. And yet, all you can muster are insults.

Reply #669212 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

Kobe, you provide one or two facts and the rest is a lot of opinion. I'm more interested in facts than opinion so don’t I bother buying in. Speaking of, if things changed before Cal arrived, and as you say he was part of the change please enlighten us to what that change actually was. I didn’t follow the sport before Cal’s days so I won’t say you are wrong but would love to know what that change you refer to actually was.. was it Williams buying half the ownership of the team?

Reply #669285 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Williams' money came in middle of 86, I believe (certainly before the end of the 1986 season). A TV deal and agreement to play at the Superdrome quickly followed. IIRC he was 100% owner, although I could be wrong.

Along with that came the resources to sign Cal, Crawford, Pinder, etc.

So while Bruton certainly contributed, it never would have happened had Williams not bought the team. Equally, Williams coming in was going to improve things regardless of Bruton.

Reply #669291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Just like no Bendat no Gleeson success.

Reply #669293 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/basketball/adelaide-36ers-created-a-monster-with-rise-and-rise-of-nbls-perth-wildcats/news-story/78ab3dc724287541445d3301da2f634c

Reply #669305 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

Actually might post this in it's own thread. Wildcats fans would probably like the history lesson.

Reply #669309 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Just like no Bendat no Gleeson success.
Nobody's suggesting Gleeson's jersey should be retired.

Reply #669408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Nobodies suggesting you know what you're talking about either but yet here you still are...

Reply #669411 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Most annoying thing on this forum, Koberulz constantly copying and pasting previous comments.

Reply #669488 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

You mean when he was quotes other peoples comments so he can reply to each one of them directly?

Reply #669495 | Report this post




 

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