Damn if some people just don't get it, it's not just about winning, for the majority of these kids it is and will be the time of their young lives and everyone needs to take a step back (take a chill pill) and give them some freedom to enjoy this incredible opportunity...
Agreed Bear. The original poster wanted names of kids when this forum doesn't allow names for U/18 even if it starts with just names in a roster type of way it always ends in sledging or parents promoting their own kid. Leave the National squads to those that have the job - the coaches, I'm sure they have a pretty good idea now who will be around the mark.
Let the kids be kids.
Probably a lack a talent I'd say. Who have they had out West?
I know the have a girl at AIS now but who else has come through there in the last 3-4 years?
That's probably why add to that finishing 10th the last couple of 18's I think its fair to say that's why they are not in the conversation.
No group of kids is a "bad group" when playing in any sports team, let alone representing their state at a national championships. Hope they do really well and over achieve beyond anyone's expectation, but in the end, so long as they do their best. That should be all anyone could or should ask.
Im imagining 'Salty' is referring to the WA teams. Two employees on coaching staff at 18s - 1 x head coach and 1 x assistant coach. If they're the most qualified for the position where is the issue.
My question after listening to DN on the radio show, is how does only having five or six training sessions prior to a National Championships constitute an adequate preparation. That's the talking point here I think
SA Country boys are the same but the coach in question is passionate and is the best qualified by a mile. His assistants are the same and they buy in to the process!
You want the best from your kids and you pay a big cost, so why not have the very best available.
Perhaps the process did not attract enough quality applications and the two employees were seconded to these positions?
Perhaps the process facilitates cronyism?
I don't know what the qualifications are of the two employees appointed however if it was based on the most 'qualified' person being appointed then shouldn't the Head Coach of High Performance be coaching State Teams?
Just because you are a Level 2 or 3 Coach doesn't mean you are the BEST person for these roles.
From my perspective, the National Championships is still a development pathway for both coaches and players (albeit high performance) and those coaches who have achieved results in the state-based junior representative competition should be recognized and rewarded with these appointments.
Just my two cents worth...
NSW, TAS, ACT, QLD have all had staff coaching state teams before. Its not new or a lone WA thing.
I think I see why WA is in the dumps, they either spend too much time fighting each other or the people with no idea have too much say over there. I swear every thread turns into people from WA complaining about something, hahahhaaha.
Good luck to everyone involved this week.
There are 12 associations that compete in the WABL Competition therefore I don't profess to know specific coaches who are achieving at this level however suffice to say there would be quite a few. I understand the second assistant coach of the WA Metro Women's Team is an outstanding coach and has achieved sustained success - perhaps she (as a volunteer coach) could have been rewarded with the Head Coach appointment?
What I am not privvy to is 1) was she offered the opportunity & declined or 2) is she a BETTER coach than the incumbent?
As long as the selection process for coaches is open and transparent I don't have an issue with coaching appointments - particularly if there is precedence from other states of employees being appointed to these positions. I just think the current process in WA looks like cronyism and that is not good governance nor good management from a peak governing body. It becomes counter-productive.
I would like to see a process implemented whereby the Head Coach of the Team/Association that wins the U16 or U18 age group at WABL is invited to coach the corresponding age group at the following year's National Championships.
That would be a clear and transparent process and also provides a performance pathway for coaches that creates incentive, rewards effort & recognizes performance.
Fair & reasonable.
That's not fair and reasonable at all, and makes it hard for clubs who work to develop coaches but maybe don't have the talent base to allow them to win WABL competitions to retain the coaches they develop. I'm not a WA person, but if I were moving to Perth and wanting to get involved in state coaching, and that was how the system was set up, why would I coach anywhere other than Willetton? Any coach with HP aspirations would be forced to leave their current club if they knew the age group wasn't going to be capable of winning WABL. What a ridiculous idea.
Can we go back to talking about u18 Nationals? In the boys WA Met and Vic Met should be top two in one pool with Qld N and Vic C the top in the other. If it does play out that way, there will be some great stylistic clashes come finals, with WA Met very front-court heavy and Qld N and Vic C much more reliant on their back court standouts. As good as the WA boys were for the Crocs, it's hard to go past Vic Met as the favourites given their well-roundedness.
I don't agree a club like Willetton has a monopoly on the U16 & U18 age groups at WABL level however you do make a valid point. I don't think it was a ridiculous idea - just an idea.
So back to talking about U18 Nationals...WA Men to win Gold this year on the back of the Crocs contingent and some OUTSTANDING shooting guards.
Vic Metro taking care of business without really getting out of first gear. Team is 10 deep with lots of rotations so should be fresher come finals.
Qld south impressing. Will see if they are for real on Wednesday against Vics.
Other side of draw is wide open. Qld north and Tasmania undefeated with vic country and nsw metro right behind them. Could be a four way draw coming out of qualifying rounds.
SA metro 0-2 and although SA country are 2-0 they haven't looked that impressive in wins.
Indeed - WA Metro Men VERY disappointing in the first two rounds. As expected Crocs contingent has been outstanding but drop away pretty quickly after that. WA appears to lack a genuine point-guard without Bacus from U16 Tourney.
Couple of players there on 'potential' and 'reputation' and need to lift or be moved on...
Salty you are either an underperforming / overlooked coach who needs to get over themselves or another clueless WABL parent who spends hundreds of dollars each month on private coaching sessions for their talent-limited son, who still can't make a state squad despite your uneducated opinion.
Yes the boys haven't began the Tournament as well as they or the coaching staff obviously would have liked but the last thing they need is to see some clown from their own state laying the boot in. Show an ounce of maturity rather than just some amateurish grub-wannabe journalism putting your two cents worth in when nobody wants to hear that crap. Go back to wondering where you have gone wrong rather than criticizing others at every opportunity.
No I am not...
I am a passionate Western Australian who is frustrated at our lack of success at Nationals when we are clearly developing the individual talent to be successful at this level.
Even with our less than impressive start I still think we can make a statement at this Tourney.
Antichrist is right - let's focus on the basketball...
Is QLD South's performance unexpected?
Tasmania a bit of a surprise over Qld North last night. Team work will always prevail of Iso plays for one player.
Vic Metro starting to get going. Gave a lesson to SA Country by the tune of 71 pts. Also showing that individual stats are misleading until you test yourself against the Vic Metro defence. Running up your individual points against some of struggling teams, you quickly get a reality check...
Vic Metro (4-0)
QLD South (4-0)
NSW Metro (2-1)
QLD North (2-1)
WA Metro (2-2)
Vic Country (2-1)
SA Country (2-2)
then the rest...
QLD definitely doing something right with their development programs. It seems like they have consistently been strong over the last 5 or so years.
SA seem to have dropped the ball. Especially with the talk about a handful of the players in the boys side that were supposed to be Aus prospects. Realistically they don't have anyone performing well enough to get a Aus gig.
Tas playing hard and getting the results.
NSW also look to have dropped off. Metro hanging by a thread.
WA Metro has underachieved so far but they may turn it around if injuries don't cripple them.
Vic Country making up the numbers literally with a couple players definitely getting the shots up...
Vic Metro a legit 10 deep with every player having started and played equal minutes. Individual stats are a bit misleading as it is very equal opportunity and some of players benefiting from the awesome defence leading to easy points.
Crossover finals can always result in a surprise, but at this stage it is Vic Metro gold medal to lose (as most years...)
Why would you only take 8 players to Nationals. No deep bench to call upon when things going pear shape for others. Seems to be a very fixed mindset or waiting for next years top age 16's to join the 1st years from this year. Had enough of the showcasing from SA teams and want a team and state first approach. Great talent will shine through and you may unearth some unexpected talent against different opposition as other states have found in the past, a glue guy, a high iq and team maler. Sometimes that talent is not from an existing family talent pool as well. Disappointing few years but I guess there can be bragging rights for the few showcased players at National level despite teams not meeting their full potential which is the aim of Nationals isn’t it or so I thought. That can also mean a 4th in the past could have been Silver and so on. The entire team and their support deserve rewards for all their abilities and years of hard work and not treated like an extra on a movie set. Keep at it players, it’s not all on you, leadership starts with selection.
WA Metro likely to end up regretting the game 1 loss to Qld South. No other results suggest the margin between the two teams to be as big as it was in that game, and it means the WA boys can't make the final without seeing the Vics again.
Are Vic Metro about to put up 150 against NT? 8 guys in double figures and 3 of those already with 20. Jesus.
Wow, thought the Vic Metro v Qld South would be a lot closer than the end result. Once again Vics going with the heavy/quick rotations and not really breaking a sweat. A couple of late injuries might be a concern for them though.
So now is the question on who to pick for the upcoming Aus team. There have been players that look great against lower teams but really struggle against the Vics. And then the Vics haven't had anyone standout consistently but have been beating teams comfortably...
Assuming they take 20 players to a selection camp I would assume the below are a good chance (I guess the team that just went to China will get an invite)
Wigness - Qld North
Clarke - Tas
Capetola - Vic Metro
Tsapolis - Vic Metro
Wiliamson - Vic Metro
Madden - NSW Metro
Rantall - Vic Country
Herbert - Vic Country
Meakes - SA Metro
Jackson - WA Metro
Travers - WA Metro
Swaka - WA Metro
Armstrong - Tas
Bannan - Vic Metro
Foster - Vic Metro
Tattersall - Vic Metro
Dennis - QLd South?
Bofinger - NSW Metro?
Bayles - NSW Metro?
Richards - Tas?
NSW Metro men and women both knocked out in qtrs.
WAMM starting to put it together.
Women would be dissappointed but did they recover from last nights loss to Vic Met on the buzzer.
NSW Country girls the surprise packet of them all but having Palmer there makes a difference.
Lets see how they scout her for semis.
Massive games by Jackson and Travers.
Not sold on Bofinger. Deserves an invite to Aus camp but not sure on making the team.
Whoever wins the Vic Metro (assuming they beat Vic Country) and the WA Metro game will be the gold medalists.
Tas likely to get thru to gold medal game but won't be able to hang with Vic Metro or WA Metro.
Aus coaches must be having a hard time comparing a player who is putting up big numbers for a team that isn't going to be playing in the medal rounds vs a Vic Metro player who is getting average numbers in a super deep team.
Question - would you take the 6th man off the US dream team who is averaging 8ppg or the leading scorer from another team that is averaging 20ppg?
WA is on the come up!!!!
Boys through to the gold medal game to face Qld South.
Girls playing off for 5th despite Deegan being injured all week.
Even the country boys finished 9th!
Great week for the west, congratulations to all players and coaches and go strong tomorrow!!
I'm not sure the WA win confirms any argument about the general state of basketball in WA.
It has always been a strong age group and Cooper nailed it last night.
This age group has come 5th at u14 nationals, bronze at 12s school boys, bronze at u16 nationals, 3 x players in crocs, and likely to win gold at u18 nationals.
So any development program may have helped but there is no doubt this age group would have been strong regardless.
If you watched the game it was obvious that Vic metro has more depth and talent but were well outplayed and definitely out coached.
Cooper exposed theVic zone and his players (forest and Mincherton) knocked down the wide open 3s. Then on the defensive end WA had done a great scout and knew exactly what the Vics were trying to do.
Well done Cooper and team, great win.
womems wa program needs a boost.
Wa men having been contributing lots of aus talent in the past 6 + years.
Wa M Women should be a top 4-6 team every tournament. Only 4 women have made national squads in the last several years. Garbin, Dennis, Pirini and Clarke. 4 youth players in 9 years of international competition. Act and tasmania have produced more.
Well done WA program.
If people were gunning against Coxsedge well you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.
It has taken time but the results are starting to show and the support from the coaches makes a big difference as well.
Good luck WAMM in the Gold Medal game.
Where to for NSW with both the Metro teams not getting the expected results and the Country girls finishing up the ladder.
Country boys certainly dissappointing.
Lets see what the High Performance coaches for Metro and Country look to do now to get improvement and will the so called boss of the coaching dept do anything to help or just prefer to sit on the back of the Kings bench this season again because it is certainly not the area to be if you want to learn how to coach properly.
WA certainly seems to be headed in the opposite direction to SA.
Three teams outside the top 8.
Wondering how much of the SAC results indicate that the high performance coach doesn't have the time to visit country associations as he's too busy with his other job and National teams.
SA used to be the best shooting state in the country and had a style of play to suit. But now there isn't any shooting program, and all they are doing is replacing club sessions with NITP so the players are actually doing less than they used too.
These were the types of results that had the old guard appoint one of their own. I wonder were they are now? And if they are going to call for the same!!!
Tassie must be congradulated for where they have come from to where they are now with their program.
No longer the easy beats.
Pity some other states did not take notice and start to do some work instead of sitting back on their laurels of what use to be.
For the girls
Vic country. Four Aust players and not even close to the top two - with not so many Aust players. Got belted by SAM on both occasions -one Aust player. Is it the coach who can't get a higher level nominated super talented team up, or the Aust selectors who get talked into choosing players who just aren’t up to it when it comes to playing tough basketball? A great bunch of kids, but fell well short of expectations.
Wa met men in 2000 had Alex Laughton who was an animal on the boards.
Ben tutili who was a flat out scorer plus others.
Ask Brett Coxsedge as he was the nsw coach at the time and in he grand final it was nightmare on Laughton street with I think 19 offensive rebounds.
4 Australian players, whether they are top or bottom age, are Australian players from this age group. I don't think the gold or silver medalists combined had 4 Australian players in this age group. I would be happy and hope to be corrected.
If you go into a nationals with that many national reps in your team, you must have high expectations, as those there, including their rivals, had those expectations of this team. I think most thought it would be an all Vic final.
Great for the Tassie boys and some outstanding Tassie-developed kids in the group. But crediting the amazing work that's gone into the Tassie program when they'd likely have finished in a different spot without one player whose development has never had anything to do with Tasmanian basketball is a bit rich. There are teams who finished below them through no fault of an inferior program.
Selectors should have a tough job going in to u17 worlds. The three WA boys obviously were outstanding, but probably only two others from the Asia Cup team looked like automatic selections. It would be nice to see a bigger camp but with that improbable, my guess would be that there aren't more than 3 or 4 names added to the Crocs team and reserves from Asia.
This team will still be so undersized in the 4/5 positions.. based on the squad announced.
Hard to believe they missed out on this squad;
Bayles & Crowe as well as one of the 6'10 guys...
Capetola played mostly the 4 in fiba u16 in the final 2 games.
Teams are much smaller in Asia.
Wigness, Buluk, Travers, Capetola, Jackson were the 5.
We don't have the size so we will aim for speed no doubt.
I don't think Clarke or jones are better than others listed even though one goes to global acdemy and the other went to Albert Schweitzer tournament.
Tsapatolis, Bannan, Tattersall, Meakes, Green to battle it out for 1 spot.
With the last Crocs team just getting back from the tournament about a month ago it meant that all 12 were automatically invited.
In reality there were 4 players in that team that shouldn't be there for this next selection as they were shown to not be in the top 20 at the latest u18 nationals.
Armstrong, Bannon, Tettersall definitely should be there and will likely make the team.
The additional 3 players added are arguably 'lucky' to be invited and probably comes down to the difference in personal preference from the coaching staff.
A tough selection though given some players looked like superstars when they were winning by big margins.
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