Anonymous
Years ago
New salary cap tax rules in the NBL
with the new salary cap rules
how much money would the taipans and hawks get?
Anonymous
Years ago
with the new salary cap rules
how much money would the taipans and hawks get?
LoveBroker
Years ago
How about...you know....generating your own revenue before begging for money?
The answer is likely zero....the equalisation payments never took off the ground as far as the public knows.
Found what they are getting in this post:
https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/43183-hawks-owner/#p685763
The last bag for those at home who are slow.
Smith
Years ago
Ah Lovebroker, I think you'll find that any reasonable person knows that each market differs in terms of generating profits. Alas when larry rode in on his white horse he promised the regional clubs that if they allowed the big markets to overspend that the regional clubs would receive due compensation the following season.
As we now know there was a signifucant asterisk to that little reach around - the overspend woukd first be utilised to cover all advertising and media costs. Anything left over from those costs would then be passed on to the clubs most effected. This is called parity, which we now know does not exist.
Then again, i could be just another imigrant turning up on your shores with another sob story....dickhead.
Udog
Years ago
He should have just said from the start
"there is no salary cap. The end".
LoveBroker
Years ago
I think you'll find that any reasonable person knows that each market differs in terms of generating profits.
Alas when larry rode in on his white horse he promised the regional clubs that if they allowed the big markets to overspend that the regional clubs would receive due compensation the following season.
Then again, i could be just another imigrant turning up on your shores with another sob story
A soft cap means there is no cap. No "luxury tax" stuff that was promised. Now we will have 4 yanks playing in a side. How is that beneficial?
The rich will keep spending and the less rich will go under.
Smith
Years ago
No one's asking for a hand out, simply what was promised. Not that difficulf to comprehend.
As for asking Cairns to allow them to overspend, that's exactly what transpired. It's called an agreement. Larry put the proposal forward to abolish the points system. The regional clubs accepted it knowing full well that they would be on an uneven playing field in 2016/17, but from 2017/18 would receive remuneration going forward. It was never fulfilled and now the regional clubs are suffering from the fallout. Told ya, not that difficult to understand.
We immigrants love a hand out mate. You'd know that...unless of course you're aboriginal or TSI? I'll take a stab and say it's not the latter. But I bet you're a proud patriot eh Lovey?
Realistically I don't see Cairns/Hawks surviving more than a couple more years. With the way the league is rapidly improving and money being thrown around, if this continues they'll reach a point where they just won't be able to compete (even though I love how they've been competitive with what they've had in recebt years).
Unfortunately I don't see small market teams, particularly ones with small crowds, being in the NBLs future.
Well, that escalated quickly. Did I miss something about immigrants?
Why is everyone so sure the money isn't being redistributed to the non-tax paying teams? We have no reason to believe it isn't happening, or do we?
LoveBroker
Years ago
No one's asking for a hand out, simply what was promised. Not that difficulf to comprehend.
Larry put the proposal forward to abolish the points system.
The regional clubs accepted it knowing full well that they would be on an uneven playing field in 2016/17
now the regional clubs are suffering from the fallout
paul
Years ago
Lovebroker you are getting owned. What was promised in return for abolition of the points system hasn't been delivered.
Now, if Kestelman can deliver a good TV deal on the back of the Boomers v USA game and distribute some revenue to clubs as a result - like other sporting leagues do - then all should be forgiven, so interested to see how that plays out.
New year same slagging of the regional teams. Let's get this straight, Larry has used the Cairns model for United and now Bullets, Hawks went down the same path and still retain the structure under a private owner - why ? Cause it’s about full community engagement from grass roots basketball to rep to NBL and eventually WNBL (yes there will be a Cairns WNBL team in the near future).
Cairns is regularly over 85% capacity (4250) and hits over 95% for at least 33% of hits games. This is vs Cowboy games, Xmas functions, New Years parties etc. cairns always generates an operating surplus (not a profit as it’s a not for profit ownerships model that plies surpluses back into the club/Facilities) which apart from Perth prior to last season just didn’t occur for the others.
Townsville scum derided Cairns for going community owned - we survived and flourished while the league was floundering. Townsville scum went belly up and we helped them transition but we mostly got ignored and they died for good. 2 GF series and 1 semi series later Cairns is still here and has new cashed up sponsors and solid membership numbers/ticket sales and a new coach/ new direction. I would be more worried about Bullets/Kings - both spending up big to get market traction and hopefully learning about game night product and community engagement to maintain ticket sales and sponsors: especially Brisbane who basically had the worst home game ticket sales in a basketball mad city.
Again Cairns and Hawks will be written off and again one or both will be in the mix. Lovebroker give yourself an uppercut - the luxury tax is for all teams not just for Cairns/Hawks and did need their vote on the NBL Board. A founding member of the new NBL board is from Cairns and is president of Taipans inc (he helped Larry redesign and implement the changes we see today) - funny how these things are forgotten or not seen by the loudest douche bags on these forums.
PeterJohn
Years ago
Lovebroker - go read the NBL media release entitled "NBL announces changes to player contract & salary rules", dated 30 March 2016. It should still be in the NBL web site's archived news articles.
It's clear and unequivocal that they were changes and not proposals.
http://www.nbl.com.au/news/article/31258-nbl-announces-changes-to-player-contract-salary-rules
Thunder Jam
Years ago
Yes Mr LK,grow a pair and explain where the luxury tax money has gone.
Very Old
Years ago
"by the loudest douche bags on these forums."
not quite fair, there are louder ones, and lovvvyyy at least, of posts with his member tag.
"Yes Mr LK,grow a pair and explain where the luxury tax money has gone."
I would guess that money plus plenty more has gone towards financing the production and broadcast costs
PeterJohn
Years ago
It would also be interesting to know if any of the other salary cap changes originally announced are being implemented as advertised.
e.g., what would have been the average salary spend per team in the season just ended? That is supposed to set the salary cap for next season. If a couple of teams have spent over $2 million and a couple over $1.5 million, the new cap would be $1.5 million or higher. Without knowing what they spent, the above scenario nonetheless seems plausible.
Whatever the new cap will be, how hard will it be for some teams to spend the minimum 90% of that cap (if that's being enforced)? Not singling out regional teams here, either - what can Adelaide afford to spend? What will be the impact on costs for spectators to go to games?
LoveBroker
Years ago
I am aware of what the NBL announced.
I myself was excited by the announcement, specifically the removal of the Points Cap, introduction of the soft cap together with the Marquee player rule and the open disclosure of salaries (once values are vetted by a Contract Review Committee).
I was onboard for a luxury tax and the subsequent equalisation payments and I was disappointed when the salaries weren't disclosed (even after they’d said they disclosed a more veiled version where names were removed).
Did I lose sleep? No...none of what I read amounted to an enforceable undertaking in any fashion, it was a proposal that wasn’t carried through. There were gaps in detail at the time of the release like how much of the taxes would the NBL keep? How much would actually end up with eligible clubs. The release says "Funds accrued in this account will be able to be distributed to Clubs who are struggling to meet the Salary Floor.", that’s broad and together with contract values open to being interpreted rather than straight up dollar value added even more uncertainty.
Are there even any clubs that didn’t meet the salary floor? If so where is the proof?
At the end of the day, even if the equalisation payments were to eventuate, there were no transparent methods of calculating how much clubs would get, how are they supposed to use blind figures to project future income? The only things they can control is their own generated income and that should be their sole focus.
Relying on unknown amounts of hand outs then complaining that none eventuated is lunacy. That’s not how you conduct an ongoing concern, but hey were are talking about Cairns.
koberulz
Years ago
Right, the details weren't published in an article publicly posted on the NBL website so obviously they didn't exist. Just like Bogut clearly isn't earning a salary next season because no salary figure has been included in any of the news articles about his signing.
There is no salary cap when every player on every team is on $400K.
Hang on, where has it been said that the tax payments aren't going to the other teams?
Lovebroker said "I myself" So 2 people? Cred gone immediately.
Every time I ask where has it been said that the non-tax paying teams aren't getting receipts from the teams that do pay tax, it goes dead silent.
Sounds like complaining with no basis. The world we live in these days.
Where has the NBL ever said they are distributing the extra money? NEVER.
AD
Years ago
Yes it helps to have very deep pockets if you want to own an NBL team. Jack Bendat propped up the Wildcats during their exile to Challenge Stadium. And it paid off when they moved to the Arena, Cats are now profitable and self-sufficient.
But at the end of the day, you also need a league in which to compete. Even assuming Brisbane get their shit together, and Sydney stop hemorrhaging, do we really want a league with only 4 teams??
Hawks made the GF in what was only the first year of this new scheme, and only because Gaze can't coach and Joey lost his marbles. And now they have been gutted.
I'm glad Perth is rebuilding, and I'm glad we got them ahead of other bidders, but it just proves that the poorer teams can nolonger compete.
Lets not forget that part of this scheme was to act as a brake on unfair overspend with the tax becoming increasingly punitive. Their were also new Marquee rules designed to get teams to swap out import slots for Marquees. Yet it appears nobody has done that.
Their was also a hard bench cap designed to stop stacking.
The NBL said they would made the numbers public.
Then they said it would only be done towards the end of the season/
and yet still nothing.
So true, we can't say for sure what is happening, because the NBL has never been forthcoming.
But here is what we can see:
- Poorer teams are struggling and having their players poached.
- Teams are either ignoring the bench cap, or their are some star players (including imports) playing for a pittance.
- The Marquee rules are not working as intended.
- If Sydney is paying the full tax, at the rates announced, then they are single-handedly bankrolling the entire NBL without LK contributing a cent.
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