Mock
Two weeks ago

Damian Martin appreciation thread

There has NEVER been another player like Damo in the NBL. Others have been better but nobody has been as good at what this man does or done for it as long.

Damo changes games with his DEFENCE, leadership, tenacity and heart and has inspired the team to COUNTLESS wins. Say a bad word about him and any Cats fan will knock you onto your backside.

Even at age 34 he is still arguably the best perimeter defender.

I want Damo to be marriage celebrant at my wedding, which will also be to Damo.

Topic #43989 | Report this topic


Cats 4 life  
Two weeks ago

Didn't school holidays finish?

Reply #707076 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Jog on Damo, you're not fooling anyone

Reply #707082 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

People who never saw Leroy Loggins or Andrew Gaze play

Reply #707083 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Andrew Gaze definitely wasn't another player like Damo!

Reply #707085 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Yawn....good chat

Reply #707089 | Report this post


Crock  
Two weeks ago

#NOHOMO?

Reply #707095 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

"Say a bad word about him and any Cats fan will knock you onto your backside."


That would be right. Feral Cats fans will resort to violence any time they hear something they don't like, such as Damo's substandard shooting ability or his flopping.

Reply #707097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Damian 'Glass Jaw' Martain

Reply #707098 | Report this post


Udog  
Two weeks ago

Someone got sticky jocks thinking about his favourite player.

Reply #707100 | Report this post


Mock  
Two weeks ago

Damo is my second favourite player...Vlahov will always be the ultimate Wildcat

Reply #707102 | Report this post


Udog  
Two weeks ago

Jocks just got stickier then

Reply #707105 | Report this post


Hoot  
Two weeks ago

This thread is DAZzling!

Reply #707113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

maybe they could just preemptively wire his jaw shut this year

Reply #707115 | Report this post


AD  
Two weeks ago

Well its true that Martin is incredibly popular with Perth Fans.

And he's perhaps unique in that his unparalleled defensive efforts have allowed him to hold down a starting PG gig, despite his offensive liabilities.

Reply #707123 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two weeks ago

Once a Sydney Spirit, always a Sydney Spirit.

Reply #707132 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Damian Martin, where do I begin? While I can appreciate his excellent defensive skills as a non-Perth fan, his offensive skills are woeful. Yeah, he can hit the 3 when needed, but that is because people sag off him because of said skills on that end of the court.

I have counted the number of times he has reached in and hasn't been called for a foul. It is like he is a protected species and the refs need to make sure he stays in the game until the game is in garbage time or there isn't enough time for him to foul out. Same thing goes for Jawai!

He has stayed in the Perth lineup because they have continuously made the finals. Had they not, he probably would have been cut. That goes for the rest of the team, they have stayed together based on their excellent record (looking at you Hire and Wagstaff). But that is what you want, consistently good results. Winning solves everything!

FWIW - Perth have been lucky to keep that playoff run in tact, especially during those years when there were 11 teams and it was an 8 team playoff. It should have been top 6 in those years and they finished 7th at least once during that time. Not Perth's fault, it is the NBL's. But they should put an asterisk next to that 32.

But I digress, get the f**k off Damo's dick before you knock his jaw loose again mate!

Angry Perth fans attack in...3...2...1!

Reply #707133 | Report this post


Udog  
Two weeks ago

Also, if you go back 4-5 years the league was floundering and only Perth and NZ had any cash or decent management.

Reply #707136 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

"His offensive skills are woeful."

The guy is consistently amongst league leaders in assists and is usually close to the best offensive rebounding guard in the competition. While shooting has been a weakness some seasons, he has also been in the top 10 for league three-point shooting three times in his career, all of which were championship years.

Reply #707140 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

There is not another NBL captain even close! Even if you're not a fan what's to dislike about the guy? Rarely complains unless it's an obvious terrible call, makes his team better (we are totally screwed when he's not in the lineup), he's always smiling and joking with players, does the dirty work or whatever needs doing to motivate his team. I'm dreading the day he retires because no one can cover what he's given us over the past decade, and that might be when our finals run ends. Norton, you better pick up some tips in the next few years!

Reply #707142 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two weeks ago

I respect Martin's tenacity, but it has to be said that there's no other player in the NBL who gets away with the type of contact that Martin does on the perimeter, especially during his prime years.

I think he's a better offensive player than he gets credit for though. He's a bit of a punt returner from deep - either a make or a horrible miss - but his floater has been money for years.

Reply #707146 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

"Angry Perth fans attack in...3...2...1!"

Posts a nonsensical rant about Perth and their fans, then acts innocent while waiting for the reaction. Good job dude.

Reply #707160 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Two weeks ago

8 championships. That is all.
4 of those with Martin.

Reply #707162 | Report this post


Udog  
Two weeks ago

I don't see the logic of saying playing on 4 cashed up championship teams makes him some super player. What if he'd played for the Kings instead?

Reply #707172 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Two weeks ago

I think Martin's limitations have been lack of consistency as an outside shooter and ball handling.

As paul implies, when he's had a good year, so have Perth. While he's been top 10 in 3 point shooting a few times (40%+ in 4 years), he's 32% for his career. So he's been pretty bad in the other years. In addition, he's a 63% career free throw shooter (50% last year) and only averages 6.6 points per game.

It's important to recall that he hasn't needed to be a high scoring point guard. More of the McDonald or Smyth type but taking fewer shots per game than them. The key difference from those players is probably his ball handling. Unlike those players, he's not an elite ball handler. They could get into the paint, create their own shots and draw fouls. Martin doesn't have that.

Reply #707174 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Two weeks ago

I can just see Isaac pulling his hair out over this thread

Reply #707175 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

"As paul implies, when he's had a good year, so have Perth."

I would say that has a lot to do with the import SF they've had recently. Ennis and Prather created the space for him (and others) to get better shots off. Ball stoppers like Daniels and Tokoto didn't.

Reply #707176 | Report this post


Udog  
Two weeks ago

Definately onboard with the Ennis and Prather comment

Reply #707177 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

He bucks the trend of the traditional PG who has been successful. He's had great success with a limited skill set really, has found his strengths and improved them over the years to provide a benefit for his club. Can't fault that at all. Who cares if his a terrible offensive player with terrible handles. He defends better than no other, he's the best leader I've seen on court in the NBL in some time, he sacrifices, he puts his body on the line, he's unselfish. I think any person who's played sport would love this type of guy on their team.

Reply #707180 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

It's not so much about anyone creating space for him, though those two are good penetrators, because opposition teams give him that space. In 2010 he had his best shooting year (49% from deep) with Stephen Weigh as the small forward.

With Damo it's a mental thing I reckon, once he gets on a bit of a roll his shot keeps dropping, when he starts the year poorly from outside it often continues.

Reply #707220 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

"I don't see the logic of saying playing on 4 cashed up championship teams makes him some super player."

If he were a bench warmer, sure, but he has been the most important constant ingredient in Perth's current dynasty. The way he plays is so important to the identity of the team, they simply wouldn't have been anywhere near the same team without him.

That's not to say he's perfect, his weaknesses have been well covered in this thread, but I think the reluctance of many to recognise him as an all-time great stems from the long-held fans view that offence is more important than defence, which isn't the case, both are pretty much equally important.

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Hanging Round  
Two weeks ago

Surely Mock has RSI after starting this thread and getting so much unwarranted response-- Then I join the party- Doh!

Reply #707224 | Report this post


AD  
Two weeks ago

Martin gets away with a bit, but not as much as people think.

Those complaining are generally those who don't like defence. They need to get over it, or stick to watching College ball. Not every touch or brush is an automatic foul.

He does get away with a little, simply because he is so good. If a Ref is unsighted, they assume Martin was clean, because he usually is.

Reply #707226 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two weeks ago

I think the reluctance of many to recognise him as an all-time great stems from the long-held fans view that offence is more important than defence
And that offence consists entirely of scoring.

Reply #707233 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

Indeed.

Reply #707264 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Damian Martin can hugely influence a game without scoring many points.

He's also an "intangibles" guy- he seems to have an influence that boosts the morale of his entire group. You just know where he is on the court- you need to be constantly aware of him.

Having said that, while Martin is arguably the best perimeter defender ever in the NBL, there are other point guards who have been elite at both ends- like D-Mac or Cedric Jackson in their primes. Casper Ware is a current example of a guy who is very effective at both ends.

He was a key part of 4 championship teams, but he’s been part of a great system where elite imports have led the way.

In my mind he’s probably the ultimate role player. A bit like say, Dennis Rodman or Bruce Bowen in the NBA. I’m just not sure if a role player can be considered an “all time great”. To place yourself in that category, you’d probably can’t be below average at one end of the floor, which his career scoring average - and watching him play- shows that he is.

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paul  
Two weeks ago

Andrew Gaze was below average at one end of the floor, he's definitely an all-time great.

Reply #707272 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Re: Offense, this needs to be teased out a little- since Paul's referred to his assists and 3 point shooting.

He’s below average offensively in terms of starting point guards.
There would’ve been individual seasons through his career where that wasn’t the case, but on the whole that’s a fair statement.

Stats never tell the full story- Martin has played efficiently, and played to his strengths by crashing the boards and not taking too many shots. But he’s played in a system that’s allowed him to play to those strengths.

He’s limited offensively, but it hasn’t hurt his team when he’s had elite MVP Level studs like Ennis, Lisch, Prather and Cotton on the wings next to him.

Look at the current crop of starting NBL PG’s- Randle, Ware, Trimble, Ili, Sobey/Deleon, Cadee, Jackson. Thought experiment- ignore defence completely for a second and imagine basketball is like NFL with constant stoppages so you switch players for every set. Martin is an offense only player. Would you rather have Martin running your offense or most of those guys?

If you were starting a team from scratch, a team in a parallel world who plays offense only- would you pick Martin ahead of most of the NBL’s starting PG’s through the years?

Gaze was indeed below average at one end towards the end of his career- but was that the case in his prime?

Even if that were true- Gaze led the league in scoring 16 times. He was better at offense than Martin is on defense.

Reply #707277 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Gaze was also The Man on multiple championship teams, whereas Martin has only ever been a supporting role player.

All championship teams need great role players, yes. But being the clear best player on a championship team puts you in a different category.

Reply #707282 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

I guess though, if you're saying Drewy was always below average defensively (I only saw him in his 30's), then that makes him the exception that proves the rule!

Reply #707283 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

Gaze was below average on defence his entire career. He probably could have been better, but the fact he played so many minutes meant he got his rest at that end.

It just comes back to what I was saying earlier, fans judge basketball (and probably sport in general) more on the attacking side than the defensive side. Coaches value them equally.

Reply #707284 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two weeks ago

I think it's only natural that Perth fans and neutral fans "get it" more than opposition fans when it comes to his value. I know that when I'm watching a game as a fan, I tend to pay more attention to my team's players and what they're doing, than the opposition's.
People who don't see it by now likely aren't going to see it at all.
I enjoy my team winning titles so I'm very appreciative for Damo, because he has been instrumental in a lot of them. He's almost the male version of Tully Bevilaqua, other than never reaching the world's top league. Great defender, great leader by example, and great person.

Reply #707290 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two weeks ago

Gaze was also The Man on multiple championship teams, whereas Martin has only ever been a supporting role player.
That would be "Larry Sengstock Medallist Damian Martin" to you.

Reply #707291 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

CG43 was the Sengstock medalist last year but he wasn't The Man on a Championship team.

CG was the 4th most valuable player on that team.

Championships are won over a season.

Reply #707303 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two weeks ago

Damian Martin has more grand final MVPs than Andrew Gaze.

But somehow Gaze was the star and Damo was a meaningless role player?

Reply #707310 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Not sure where you got "meaningless" from- you were reading, you'd notice I said every championship team needs role players.

I specifically compared Martin to an NBL version of Rodman or Bowen. High praise.

Championships are won over a season- not just the Grand Final.

Reply #707320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Martin is a disgraceful flopper and should be ashamed as should all Perth fans.

Your fanbase, and your team is purely shit.

Reply #707698 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two weeks ago

Man... that stings hard!

Reply #707860 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

D Martin d Martin d Martin. D Martin d Martin. Perfect starting 5

Reply #707864 | Report this post




 

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