Anonymous
Last year

What's changed with Cedric Jackson!

When he was here last with Melbourne, I thought he didn't get along with Demopolous and that was the reason he didn't play well.

But based on round 1, it looks like he's still struggling. So how does a guy go from MVP level to being what appears to being a scrub in only a couple of seasons?

Is the league's standard higher than it was when he was a top player? Or has he lost a step?

Conklin still looks like an effective player and Jett too.

Topic #44060 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last year

Or the other alternative is, he's still good but just finding his feet after being away a while. Maybe we should give him more time?

Reply #709063 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Age

Reply #709064 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

No leg room.

Reply #709066 | Report this post


NBL Fan  
Last year

If feel like the grind it out, low scoring playing style of the NBL in the early 2010s suited him more. Game has speed up too much for him and a reliable outside shot is essential.

Reply #709067 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

To me he doesn't seem engaged or interested.

Reply #709068 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Age, poor attitude/lack of effort, change of game style.

I thought Dean D got a bit too much blame for Cedric's fall from grace at United and that has been confirmed with every Hawks game I've watched this season. He was by far the worst of the Hawks three imports in that tournament in Malaysia. The guy genuinely looks like he couldn't give a rats about basketball anymore and I've noticed the lack of interaction with his teammates too.

I know the Hawks have limited funds but I think Bevo needs to cut him before his poor attitude spreads to the rest of the group. If they can't afford a replacement so be it addition by subtraction they'll be better off for it I think.

Cedric was always one player I never bought the "hype" about he played in a championship winning group that did it's best to hide his deficiencies in NZ whilst also benefitting from playing in perhaps the worst period of talent in the NBL in recent memory when the league had almost folded, was taken over by BA and the spending severely tightened.

Reply #709070 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last year

Hawks need to cut him and bring in an athletic forward who can score, Jett, Naar and White can handle the PG duties.

Reply #709076 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I think he cares a lot to be honest, his reactions and how tense he is would suggest he's very much invested. I think his lack of shooting is a big issue. When he played NBL before the league wasn't as good (as mentioned), now if you can't shoot then you're severely limited/exposed. His decision making appears to be very poor and he's trying WAY too hard to score or make scoring passes over the simple decisions. Will be interesting to see if he lasts.

Reply #709079 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Thought Joey would've had the best shot at appealing to him and getting his head right. Bevo a few years back might’ve had a shot too. You can wonder about age and the like, but if the attitude and effort aren’t there, what’s the point. I’d try a sports psychologist first, then a couple of other personal things with teammates, etc then cut him if all that failed. If the attitude was poor in a pre-season and initial games with no improvement, they might as well bite the bullet immediately.

Even if he can’t shoot, he should still be able to contain on D and rack up assists as a role player.

Reply #709081 | Report this post


skull  
Last year

MHI....

Reply #709089 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

He was plucked out from a team playing in an extremely minor league in the US which suggests to me he had given up on playing professionally and overseas.

Reply #709093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

He averaged under 12 ppg in the fledgeling NAPB in the American second-tier system. He won't average close to that this NBL season

Reply #709102 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Bevo a few years back might've had a shot too. "

Why a few years back, but not now? Are you suggesting Bevo has lost the touch?

Reply #709108 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"No leg room."

*applause*

Reply #709109 | Report this post


Bol  
Last year

He seems to have lost the eye of the tiger

Reply #709115 | Report this post


ME  
Last year

The league got better and he didn't. Simple as that. You can't have a big glaring weakness and be an impact player here anymore. There are guys quick enough to contain his drive now. He has literally nothing to offer in this league and should be moved on while we can still remember the good times.

Reply #709117 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

the league is probably stronger but he has definitely gone backwards further than the league has gone forwards. there were already signs of this in his last season here. he has been well scouted now.

Reply #709118 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Age. Weaknesses become more prominent. I also recall reading he wasn't in th best shape in pre season. Might take him a while to get into shape. He is still an elite playmaker, not sure the hawks have the options to give him the room to operate.

Reply #709121 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

As mentioned many times above he and the Breakers did well during an all time low of NBL basketball, like Gleeson and the Wildcats did.

Reply #709123 | Report this post


proud  
Last year

I'll start by saying that nobody in NBL history has been boo'd and jeered by me more than Cedric Jackson (I didn't see enough of Tim Morrissey) because I find it truly embarrassing to have your best player air balling free throws and 3 pointers on a regular basis but Cedric is a bloody legend and he is top shelf in terms of rebounding point guards and a tremendous passer, he will win Illawarra multiple games this season as he is on triple double watch and Emmett Naar will learn a lot from him, give Cedric until Christmas at worst.

People here are saying he can't shoot and he takes ill advised shots but he always has, he has also gone for intercepts and steals and tried leading fast breaks even when the opposition still had the ball (but he doesn't have a Dillon Boucher to pick up his opponent. So his gameplay has issues that have been successful and trying to post up other point guards being something he tried doing too much in Melbourne but he has a tricks bag as good as almost anyone in the league and as someone very fond of the Hawks, I hope that he delivers them outstanding performances here on out.

Reply #709128 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Interesting question on Bevo, this season will show if he is under or overrated ... if his recruiting ability is any good or not. People rate him highly but I don't think he has impressed that much since returning to the NBL

Reply #709129 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

What can he do with such small budget. He doesn't have a Gleeson level of budget.

Reply #709131 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Should get Tre Nichols in if Cedric don't work out.

Reply #709134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Dat you Tre?

Reply #709140 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

"Interesting question on Bevo, this season will show if he is under or overrated ... if his recruiting ability is any good or not. People rate him highly but I don't think he has impressed that much since returning to the NBL."

He's made semi-final and grand final in three years at one of the lowest budget clubs in the competition. Seems pretty impressive to me.

Reply #709141 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Please replace him with Trice

Reply #709143 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Last year

I wouldn't say its an age issue 32 isn't old but looking at where he has been for last two years playing in a minor league should be a cause for concern.

If the Hawks end up letting him go I think Naar could step up and they would have better team balance bringing in an import big even if he comes off the bench.

Reply #709144 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Why a few years back, but not now? Are you suggesting Bevo has lost the touch?
I would guess some aspects, yes. Get the sense he has his own things to worry about and might have lost a bit on player rapport. Complete guesses though. Seems like Joey has the better handle on building a really tight unit.

Reply #709196 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

I'm sorry, have any of those touting Jett actually had a good look at the guy?
He's carrying a gut, his ass jiggles when he moves, and he literally shuffles around the court.
Now yes, yes, I understand they were all tired and needed a nap, but I guess that's the point. When you are obese and unfit you're going to struggle back after for a 2 game weekend.

People get spoilt looking at PGs who carry half the coring and forget that's not really their role.

Jackson and Elbows looked like the two sharpest Hawks on court. Yes he's older, but he's still sharp, and well able to play the role of backcourt general.
But he needs someone more dynamic to partner with.

Reply #709224 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Jett isn't obese for starters he was pretty much the same size perhaps a touch bigger now then when he played for the Crocs in 2015/16 when he won the team MVP & best defensive awards and he's looked much better than Cedric so far this season.

A lot of people underestimate Jett by how chunky he looks but he has no problem getting past defenders in his bursts to the hoop. Deceptively fast.

Reply #709229 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Naar isn't ready at this level

Reply #709230 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

A poster above said Ced excelled a few years ago when the game was a grind out & slower - and that he can't play to the new faster style.

But I think the opposite - he thrived in NZ because they played an up-tempo style which allowed him to get easy buckets in transition or on primary offence (when the ball-handler would always get an OB screen to start the offence) and get easy assists by pushing the ball.

I remember him getting a lot of easy baskets in transition/primary offence.

He is IMO a lot worse in a slow tempo style of game because he doesn't have an outside shot, and he doesn't have the moves and reportiore of scoring when the lane is clugged.


Reply #709240 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Wait, why so much hate for Jett?

He averaged 14.5ppg across round 1 on 12/24 from the FG.

Played great defence on Ware in the Melbourne game and didn't get burned in the Perth game either.

I'd be inclined to be more critical of those players who had a stinker in the Perth game - Jett actually had 13 points on 5/7 shooting and 2/3 from 3.

The rest of the team (i.e. the whole other 10 who played had 48 points. Finger point them IMO.

Reply #709242 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

NZ played both styles well, that's why they were so good, and Cedric was very effective in both, a great decision maker in the open floor and expert at using the ball screen to create for others. He was a superstar talent who could do pretty much everything but shoot from outside.

Since his knee troubles he's barely played pro ball, so time will tell whether he can get back to a good level at age 32, but I think after that amount of time it's unrealistic to think he can get back to his best, which was often just plain dominant, even against Martin and Perth.

Reply #709244 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Wait, why so much hate for Jett?"

I think the main scrutiny of Jett is because he said he was aiming to be NBL MVP this season. As a budget import playing budget import level basketball I think he does ok. If Hawks were paying him MVP money to play MVP ball then it would be a disaster but I'm sure they aren't.

Reply #709261 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I agree, Jett has looked good this season. Tough man to stop

Reply #709269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Since his knee troubles he's barely played pro ball, so time will tell whether he can get back to a good level at age 32, but I think after that amount of time it's unrealistic to think he can get back to his best, which was often just plain dominant, even against Martin and Perth."

Peak Jackson was probably the only guard in the league that Martin didn't bother. I also remember his hands were so quick he used to strip the ball from lisch when no one else could.

Reply #709270 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

Was like the modern version of D-Mac. A pleasure to watch him play, I hope he can at least get back to some solid form this year. We won't know for a month or two I reckon, he's been away from this level a while so it will take time to get his groove on.

Reply #709274 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

paul,

I miss that 2012-13 season. We went 24-4! and as noted above, Ced was virtually unstoppable.

Funnily enough, 3 of the 4 regular season losses were to Perth. Even more astonishing is that Perth absolutely clapped us in those 3 games (margins of 21, 25 and 15 points!). The one game we won against them in the regular season we wont by 17. Could never believe how much the margins were for what was two evenly matched teams.

That year, NZB went 23-1 against everyone but Perth.

Nostalgic!

Reply #709288 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Macdub, was this the season Martin missed the Grand final?

Reply #709305 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

LOL, already Wildcat excuses coming, fact is Breakers won and threepeated, the most dominant team.

Reply #709309 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Two of those three years they beat Wildcats teams missing a top-three player, both times coming within a few seconds of dropping a game - and in 2011 they got absolutely smashed in game one.

The only year NZ played Perth in the playoffs and Perth were fully healthy, the Wildcats won the series.

Reply #709316 | Report this post


Perth dickz would have been bigger than NZ dickz for sure if only they were 3 inchez longer!

Reply #709322 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"LOL, already Wildcat excuses coming, fact is Breakers won and threepeated, the most dominant team."

Not trying to make excuses, just trying to remember which year was which for context. NZ and Perth met in the playoffs a lot of times.

Reply #709328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I'm not even a Perth fan but the cats were missing Martin for one of the breakers titles and red Hague in his prime for another

Reply #709331 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Didn't mean to turn it into a Perth vs NZB argument - its been rehashed too many times on this forum.

My simple point was to talk about how good he was (Ced) and how good the team was that year - and also to point out how damn good the Wildcats were. End of.

Reply #709332 | Report this post


Jumpshot  
Last year

How is he different from the great NBL guards - Randle, Cotton - the ability to shoot. His handles and athleticism is on par, if not better.

Reply #709347 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Yet to see full games, so going on second hand info, but enough people have mentioned that he looks disinterested. If you don't have a shot and you're a step slower, you can still, easily look interested and put in the effort.

I suspect skull at the top might be somewhat right, which is why I'd have been throwing offcourt support at him from the beginning of pre-season.

Reply #709359 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Yeah I wouldn't say he is disinterested. "Frustrated" is probably a better term i.e. he actually takes pride in his performance and is itching that its not working out as of now.

Having a guy go to the bench and throw his towel on the ground and shake his head, look angry etc is not a bad thing (which is what he was doing in that Melbourne game when he was subbed out) - just proves his own frustration/disappointment with his performance leading to him being subbed out [not necessarily that he is pissed off with the club etc]

Reply #709367 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Isaac all skull said was "MHI"?

Reply #709370 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

I think that reaction from Cedric was after he picked up his fourth foul, forcing him out of the game. You'd hope to get that sort of reaction.

Reply #709375 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Last year

"Jett, Naar and White can handle the PG duties."

Thanks for laugh Yarra Lad!

Reply #709384 | Report this post


John Fairs  
Last year

Thunder Jam, not such a silly suggestion. Have a listen to the Basketball Blokes podcast they are thinking along exactly the same lines.

Reply #709443 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

Ultimately all the Cedric haters need a good dose of common sense.
Relative to the rest of the league, Hawks are clearly being run on an even smaller shoestring than usual. Do you think they'd have Cedric if they had the money for anyone better?

At 32, he's obviously not the same player he was 5 years ago. But he was always a PG, not an SG or combo. At his best he lead the league in steals and assists, but never points.

Reply #709459 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

What even is a shoestring anyway?
I hope I find out before my wristclock indicates that it is bed time

Reply #709460 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

Smaller, or Shorter shoestring???

Reply #709461 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

Did the 6ers have a Shorter shoestring last season???

So many questions

Reply #709462 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

Now the league is full of quality players instead of the shambles it was in when he was with NZ Jackson is being shown up.

Reply #709682 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Now the league is full of quality players instead of the shambles it was in when he was with NZ Jackson is being shown up."

Except more than half the current league played with or against Jackson back then. Some of the players who have left include Penney, Worthington, Warrick, Prather, Beal, Knight, Creek, Redhage, Ervin, Wilson, Khazzouh, Flynn, Madgen, Gill, Wilkinson.

Guys like Webster, Goulding, Johnson, Martin, Randle, Ogilvy, Lisch etc who are quality players in this year's comp were quality players in 2015/16 when Jackson was last with NZ, leading the league in assists and leading them to the GF.

If you want to take something from Jackson's struggles to get back to his best, it is perhaps how important both physical condition and having a team/role that suits your strengths are to producing quality basketball.

Reply #709741 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

^^ Sorry, that was me, not sure why name didn't show up.

Reply #709743 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Titan 97

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Westside Basketball Association

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 4:15 pm, Sat 21 Sep 2019 | Posts: 791,004 | Last 7 days: 1,371