Sooking about NBA scores

Look at the scores.





Is this what the NBA wants? Is this what fans wants? All offense and absolutely no defense?

Offenses seem to be 1 pass and a guy jacking up a 3 5 seconds into the shot clock.

Is this what turns people on?

Are the NBA that desperate to make games higher scoring?

There just seems to be no intensity in games. Each possesion seems to be watered down because there are so many of them now with the increased tempo.

They are like pick up games.

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Years ago

You'll probably get shot down but I agree 100% with your comments.

Reply #709829 | Report this post

Years ago

I think I was ahead of the times been getting my teams to play like that for the last 20 years instead of playing boring slow down basketball.
It's not about good viewing it's about what will win games and going into the post is useless to see a big dope back down his man and maybe hit a shot or draw a foul. A 3 pointer should be taken every time over those shots hence why there are no big slow guys anymore.

Reply #709830 | Report this post

Years ago

I take your point, but would you prefer teams spend 24 seconds walking the ball up the floor, isolating someone, and throwing up a BS shot? It's pretty easy to play defense when the offense is terrible.

Each to their own, I guess.

Reply #709833 | Report this post

Years ago

I do see the OP point within reason.
If you convert Adel 106 v Syd 101 to a 48 min game then you end up with 127-121 .
A lot of run and gun but limited defence.

Reply #709836 | Report this post

Years ago

That Adelaide game had high shooting percentages.

The NBA is moving to exploit the strength of the three point shot. Pointless judging scorelines without any accounting for pace, types of shot taken, etc.

Easy to cherrypick scores when there are so many games being played.

Reply #709842 | Report this post

Years ago

I agree with the premise, in the sense that the way rules have shifted gives too much advantage to the offence.

This is week 1 of an 82-game NBA season, though. The NBA regular season has always been pretty uninspiring basketball (with the occasional exception).

The playoffs are a different game and teams lock in defensively there in a way they just can't be bothered with at the moment. Coaches are still experimenting with lineups and matchups and roles, game plans aren't as detailed, players are busy learning their own team stuff without worrying about opponent scouts. So yeah, the style of the game is too offensively oriented. But no, the NBA results you're citing aren't the best evidence of it.

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Melbourne Boy  
Years ago

OP, the increased scoring has nothing to do with lack of defense, it's from teams taking so many more 3pt attempts and the increased pace of play. More 3s equals more points, and more possessions equals more chances to score.

The old school basketball "purists" don't like it because teams dont run an extended set for 18 seconds to get what they called a "good" shot, but why run an offense vs a set defense when you can push it up and get that same guy an open 3 after the first penetration and pass.

Those dumb purists used to criticize Larry Bird for shooting an open 3 in transition, shows how little they actually used analytics.

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Wang whipper  
Years ago

Yep it turns me on. I got a semi just reading all those high scores and early shots

Reply #709859 | Report this post

Years ago

This is why I would not be keen on NBL going to say a fifty game season. Would we want the NBL to become a bruise free marathon just like the NBA?

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Years ago

Melbourne Boy, good defences limit the amount of early open shots a team can get, so it definitely is a factor, along with the increased willingness to push the pace and test the defence as you pointed out.

When NBA teams pick up their D in the playoffs it generally sees scores drop, and if they played fewer games in the regular season I imagine they would spend more time and effort figuring out how to disrupt specific opponents.

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Melbourne Boy  
Years ago

Paul, you're correct that in the playoffs the defense picks up, but that's because you have a week to prepare and then 2 weeks to play the series, with the entire coaching and analytics team focussing on one opponent, plotting the defensive schemes to shut them down.

It bugs me when people call out todays NBA players that they don't try on defense like back in the 90s, go watch an entire game on YouTube from the mid 90s when the D was supposedly so tough, you'll be very surprised how much its 5 guys playing 1 on 1 with poor spacing and shot selection.

Reply #709867 | Report this post

Years ago

Don't disagree with you there, people often think of the past as better when it's not. In athletics or swimming you can't argue with the improvement over time because the results are cut and dried. In team sports there is still that room for nostalgia!

Having said that, NBA teams and players don't put the time and effort into defence other top leagues do because of their condensed schedule. The next step in the NBA game's evolution will most likely be improving defensive transition to force teams to execute more against set defence.

Reply #709869 | Report this post

Years ago

In the playoffs you have better teams playing each other swell. The intensity lifts on defence.
The jazz/warriors game was a cracker. Going shot for shot until Jazz broke it open only for Warriors to peg them back.
36ers and Kings played at high pace. Both teams shot at a good percentage. It was a very good quality high standard game.
Teams are taking their opportunity to score early and get a good shot rather than rushed shot as shot clock winds down.

Reply #709870 | Report this post

Years ago

how much of the increased scoring has to do with the new shot clock rule?

Reply #709894 | Report this post

Years ago

"36ers and Kings played at high pace. Both teams shot at a good percentage. It was a very good quality high standard game."

A lot of Kings games in recent games have been good on the eye (which is different to high standard), and a big part of that is they aren't good defensively so it makes it easier for opponents to look good. Mix in a team like Adelaide who want to score quick and rush opponents and it makes for an entertaining game most times they meet.

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Melbourne Boy  
Years ago

The transition defense preference has already started to take effect, ORB rates are at all time lows as teams are now sending all 5 players back on D rather than crashing just to try and stop an open 3 on a short rotation.

Also, analytics gurus are saying we're only scratching the surface with how many 3s are being taken. Think about it, 20 attempts in the 90s was very high, then 30, 40, qnd now last season Houston became the first team to attempt more 3s than 2s, and people think that's high.

Soon every team will be attempting more 3s than 2s and someone like Houston will be attempting 70% of their shots behind the arc. I'm not necessarily saying that's good, just that it will happen.

Reply #709903 | Report this post

Years ago

The game evolves every now and again.

At some point, for any multitude of reasons, the game will revert to low post scoring.

It may not be soon, but once teams work out a better way to stop three ball basketball, the game will change again.

Reply #709968 | Report this post

Years ago

Can't win if the games were low scoring grinds people would complain they're not entertaining enough

Reply #709970 | Report this post

Years ago

JVG said on the ESPN broadcast today that the referees are calling the game too soft hence why the scoring is so high.

Reply #710107 | Report this post

Years ago

It's getting a bit stupid. The style makes people think they're better shooters than what they are.

You had the Thunder shoot 39 threes today. Which is astonishing for a team with mostly average 3 point shooters (bar maybe Abrines).

Patterson for example shot 6 three today. Crazy high for a poor shooter.

I don't know where across the line coaches seemingly stopped getting on guys backs for shooting too many 3s.

Not sure what Donovan is saying to his troopers but if he isn't getting on guys hard about that stuff he probably deserves to be unemployed.

Reply #710276 | Report this post

Years ago

What's the point here?

The NBA has the best talent, they will shoot the ball and hit shots, their athletes get to the rim easier and their bigs are harder to stop, they have extended the 3 point line out a foot and a half beyond FIBA rules and all of this adds up to opening the court and making defending more difficult.

Reply #710474 | Report this post

Years ago

MACDUB, accounting for the extra point, Patterson is better off taking threes than twos! For a PF, his FG numbers are poor either way. His 3P% was better than Abrines last season though.

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Years ago

Macdub, I think I remember reading an article a while ago about how the Warriors had hoodwinked the NBA. Basically saying that Golden State absolutely loved seeing everyone trying to imitate them stylistically because they were confident that other teams simply didn't have the personnel to match them that way. And that has been born out by the teams that have challenged them most effectively being very different: Houston might shoot a lot of 3s like Golden State, but are far more iso-oriented and play a traditional (offensive) big man in Capela (he's more agile and defends the perimeter better than traditional bigs); and as much as Mitchell is the driving force of Utah's offence, their identity comes from Gobert and the defensive side of the ball.

It's easy to pick on OKC when they're 0-3 and looking defensively woeful, but I think that's exactly the sort of thing the article was referring to. OKC are not going to beat the Warriors by having an entire roster of non-shooters jacking up 3s. Boston are the closest thing in the league to a Golden State-style team that's actually good

I think this thread is discussing two different issues, though. There are stylistic changes to the game that maybe are being poorly implemented by teams with the wrong personnel, but that result in higher scoring contests (missed 3s = longer rebounds = more runouts/transition opportunities. Made 3s = more points). And then there are rules changes like the gather step and the way fouls are being called that make it really hard to play effective defence. To me, those are related, but not the same issue. I think the stylistic changes are really just coaching decisions, and the coaches who can identify what best suits their personnel are going to be more successful than those who just follow trends. The rules changes are something that should be considered in terms of how they affect the on-court product from a watchability standpoint, but also how they maintain the integrity of the game. I think that balance is wrong at the moment.

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Years ago

Two things that are fairly sure in sport:

1 A lot of teams will try and emulate the best team at the time
2 Very very few will be able to do it well

The next great team after the Warriors is likely to be one that finds the next step of evolving the way the game's played.

Reply #710496 | Report this post

Years ago

^Or, has the best spread of elite talent...

Reply #710821 | Report this post

Years ago

I miss the old school NBL 48 minute scoring.

Reply #710847 | Report this post

Years ago

I haven't looked at the actual % but it appears 3pt % is really high. Basically an open 3 is as good as a layup...
Teams are using the 3pt more than ever and there is no longer any problem pulling the trigger early even on a break.

Reply #710852 | Report this post


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