Big V is still relevant to the teams, clubs and suburbs its played in
SEABL never over ruled it and in most cases in Victoria more people were interested in it over SEABL.
This won't change anything for the lower divisions, clubs won't celebrate a championship any less!
Be good for the Big V to really get on the front foot this season & bring back the hype, feel like it has lacked a little recently. Encourage more info and articles from clubs or maybe guest blog pieces from Big V Nerds
Incorrect Supercats (or any other association for that matter) cannot have a senior Big V team and participate in Elite League under new rule from Basketball Victoria .
You can have Elite Senior Team and Youth League as pathway or Big V Senior Team and Youth League as pathway. That's why there CEO has formed a relationship with Bellarine.
The anon that is so down on Big V go start your own thread.
Forget the 'super league' lets talk BIG V
How should the mens divisions be made up, is Div 1 now top? and who should be in it? or are we still having a SCM I like the idea of going back to just Div 1 & Div 2 but I guess you have YLC to also move around
What about team news?
I know some teams have resigned imports early, or guys are heading over, tryouts are happening or happened.
What about promoted teams? who has the best chance of staying up.
Two years ago
@PersonalFoul I like Coburg moving into D1M, their coach runs a good system and won in D2 without an import last year. Will be interesting to see how they can compete at D1.
I'm looking forward to seeing Chelsea's new combo Standerfer and Voss work in SCM.
For D2M, Mildura to be irrelevant if Henry had retired (as rumoured). This year is surely the year Sth Penn break thru.
Can't see Coburg as a play off contender even with that line-up
Southern Penn must be making a big push, would like to see the country teams do well, strong country teams always provide great venues to play in.
Womens side of the game looks a little think outside of the Top 4 in Div, Div 2 from what I saw was glorified domestic comp and the standard ha certainly dropped off, do we think Youth League drains the young talent from the womens game?
Heard Blount not coming back to Warrnambool and both Shep imports were not interested in coming back. Do any imports stay at a club for more than 2 years? Bozeman at Frankston and Coleman down at Hume City, did hear a rumour that Standerfer might have been looking around and Blues might have been an option, though could never see him part way over at the Gulls
So where's the Shepp to win D1 talk coming from if both imports are gone and no locals are playing?
Damon Smith from Craigieburn is another example of an import sticking around - played last year and signed on for 2 more. Great for the club and for D2 to have some consistency in the import ranks.
In the lower leagues its great if you can have imports long term who are engaged both on and off the court as often at that level the off court community engagement is just as important as on floor.
At the Vic Elite level etc W's and performance are probably more important than low term community involvement plus if imports are any good they use SEABL/SCM as a stepping stone to hopefully better playing euro gigs.
Although the article about Keilor looks like they may have 3 imports I'm sure they have done their due diligence...
Kaba (potentially becomes unrestricted this year or next)
+ 1 import if Kaba becomes unrestricted
Vlad Brckov on the spouse visa and not coming out of a premier league in other country is a big one for them.
Potentially they could have 2 x imports, 2 x spouse visa (Kaba and Brckov) and Charleston Long...
That would be legit championship contender (but may not be great for their future...)
Nobody in SCM or Vic Elite League is worried about the future, its win now! and so it should be these are the two highest levels. the future should be worried about at Youth League and U18s are filling those spots with local kids not recruiting heavy in this area. ARE you developing players in SCM no you are playing the best team you can put together with maybe the 4 spots on the bench going to local guys
PersonalFoul, I agree with you to an extent.
Senior team, whether it SCM or Vic Elite, is definitely focused on winning.
But, there also needs to be an element of making it sustainable.
Loading a team with essentially 5 current/past imports is not sustainable and may result in local talent looking for opportunity elsewhere.
The stronger talent coming out of u18 is not interested in 'developing' for a year or two in YL. They want to have opportunity immediately.
Having said this, if it is a strategic move to win now and bridge a couple years until more local talent comes thru then great move.
Anyway, good luck to them and it makes it all the more interesting to see the plan for each team.
anon - great points but stronger talent coming out of u18s must be pretty awesome if they think they can impact a senior mens program, thats still boys against men and the YL was set-up to give them 2 years to develop
as a youth league head coach I get a lot of late phone calls from YL kids who thought they were too good for YL went to Senior Try-outs instead didn't make teams and now want to find a spot on a youth league roster .....
I think you have to have home grown talent somewhere in your team with seniors but winning is winning
Hume City with an injection of new talent
New head coach Matt Foster who has done an exceptional job in YL and U18 at Bulleen. Ex SBL Head Coach in WA for Willetton Tigers.
Import Jamal Shabaaz who played in the SBL last year. Had a decent career at D1 Samford and is a heck of an athlete and sure to be a great addition for them.
Marshall Kearing a 6'8 F/C who has relocated from WA and likely to head to College later this year. Is being recruited by numerous D1 progams on the west coast. A nice guy to bring off the bench this year. a 7'2 wingspan, great shot blocker, can shoot the 3 and has nice touch inside.
Daniel Foster 6'5 PG also being recruited by numerous D1 programs on west coast. Another handy young guy to bring off the bench.
They should be a fun team to watch this year.
Hume City sounds good
Altona will be exciting no doubt, that talent on paper looks tidy
Anynews from Coburg, Werribee, Mornington/Western Port, Keilor games from the weekend?
RMIT in trouble, heard they skipped a practice game due to not being ready??? odd one most teams are keen to get some early games.
Its a thought that the league doesn't support the clubs with promotion that maybe clubs should look other avenues, live streaming their own games, interview pieces etc
Outside the Arcs Plenty Valley FM seems to be pushing hard on the leagues behalf for Northern Clubs
What other radio stations or podcasts are out there for the league? do we need more or less??
Seen an alarming amount of ''looking for players'' call outs on facebook from clubs in good divisions ... where have all the good players gone??
Is it cost of the league, some players having pay upwards of $700 just play youth league?
Whittlesea putting a facebook call for State Champ Womens players .... never seen that? Not at that level, don't they already have 2 imports?
Mornington had one season off, now are back, alot of the old core from the club and youth league are there.
Bellarine at least had a CBL team this year which included players with higher level experience.
RMIT are a startup club with no core group of players coming in, the uni games players all play for other Big V teams, it's hard to see them being competitive at all.
RMIT are in trouble, good source on this one.
Bellarine will have a team, Div 1 level I would think so but as meantioned CBL plus Geelong defectors (not meant in a bad way)
Mornington just played on the weekend against Westernport, any reports?
Coburg beat Werribee (minus import)
Collingwood play Camberwell this Saturday
^^Camberwell beat Sherbrooke last night as well. Looked like they had tons of depth and bigs. And for whoever on here was saying awhile back that the Camberwell import would average 6/not have an impact...? Boy are you in for a surprise if last night was any indication!! I'll just say that.
Wallan has a very strong squad and will sneak up on a few teams this season. Their cbl side smashed shepp on the weekend!!
Camberwell is a shoe in for the flag after what I saw against Sherbrooke.
I also have seen rmit and they are going to be lucky to get within 20 points of any team. Full of domestic players and they have no chance.
Any news on Mildura or cragieburn??
Camberwell won by 12..was up by nearly 20 for awhile... Nat O'hara was cruising and didn’t look like he was trying much, shot maybe three times, they missed about 20 free throws and their import is playing probably two comps too low. Granted it was against Sherbrooke so we could probably wait until we see more...
People within RMIT, struggled with coach recruitment. Players not at the standard not prepared for the issues of running a club off court. Sold a great concept but don't have the people in place to make viable. This will last 2 seasons.
Good source. My source told me that after try-outs they turned down a game against a YL team due to still not having players in late Dec
Wallan were mentioned earlier on this forum as making a big run at winning Div 2 and that seems to be on track
Any news on Melton? Bol Bak was amazing last year would love to see him again st Seniors instead of YL2 opposition. Can he cut it against the men.
just moved to victoria from WA and was just wondering a few questions.
What are the standard differences between the divisions?
What about between Youth and Men's? say how would a top division youth side go against a division 2 mens side?
Exactly right RE the uni league and thinking of the bigger picture! I agree with what someone else said earlier in the thread, I hope RMIT come out and surprise everyone.
As a new club, they don't have an existing pathway or player pool to draw from as other Big V clubs do, however with their establishment there is now another potential pathway for junior players.
Uni league seems like pie in the sky stuff considering that 25% of uni students are international students who aren't here to play sport.
Only 36% of people aged 20 years old attend university so your missing the other 44% or so who don't attend to go make more cash as a tradie.
Of the 36% who do attend its not outlandish to suggest alot come from backgrounds that are considered "into" basketball (Asian/Indian) so i'm not sure if this league ever really gets off the ground as some think it will as the demographics simply work against it.
Reality you negative nelly.
It is obviously a far way away from being elite however it is not very hard to see how it would work.
These Universities have for the most part great facilities or scope to have them. Giving young kids the chance at a free education and the ability to develop their basketball skills is a brilliant idea.
these things have to start somewhere and obviously theres some rough trimmings but having these opportunities only helps basketball in australia.
also if you don't think universities have talented players you clearly have never seen some of the uni games teams. That is without any recruiting or incentivising young hoopers to attend their schools.
Not saying its the only pathway but it is a pathway and the more the merrier
I think the issue with RMIT is that they did not recruit any exisiting UniGames players.
The team is based in Bundoora - they could have tried to pry players from RMIT, LaTrobe, VU and Swinburne for example.
I think it is safe to assume that exisiting BigV players would not want to go to a club with little to no history, an unknown coach, and no enticing opportunities in order to leave their exisiting club. If I were to leave an exisiting club where I already had an established role - I would want some guarantees of the future program.
I do wish RMIT will do well, and if they do - many more players will come the following season. As they will believe in the process.
RMIT just wedging themselves in a region with plenty of basketball teams another good effort to dilute the value of the Big V Comp. We need teams in growth areas not places with enough options. We want good players in the league not self valued over rated senior mens comp players who dropped 30 on a wednesday night against a 38 yr old and played a little Metro 1 in U18's thinking they are league ready.
Funny suggestions that camberwell import is playing 2 divisions lower than he should. If he was any good a club would actually reach out to get him and you know pay him import salary rather than just ring around as many clubs as you can hoping someone will pick him for no money
How many uni's are there? Not many.
Which good player that goes to uni would play for them if they already play elsewhere?
What happens after he finishes his 4 or whatever years can he still play for that uni?
Who other than students would care one bit about the actual league?
So much pressure on RMIT... realistically, most clubs haven't announced their playing rosters at all.
Cade Towers would be a great pick-up for RMIT if true. He was really solid at Altona a couple of years ago.
I'll have a go at some tips:
SCM - McKinnon or Keilor
SCW - Sunbury or Southern Peninsula
D1M - Keysborough or Western Port
D1W - Mildura or Camberwell
D2M - Pakenham or Craigieburn
D2W - Melbourne Uni or Blackburn
So The Bear thinks Westernport are looking strong for D1W. Lost to our Sth Pen under 18 team (most were fill ins) by over 60!!
Then a couple of games against D2W teams where in the last game word is the game was called off 4 minutes to go.
Yep should be in for a successful year !!!!
From the Big V website...
"Latrobe City Energy Big V Women's Open tryouts will be held on Wednesday 20th February starting 7.30pm at Latrobe Leisure Morwell.
All current and new players are invited to attend.
For more information please contact Head Coach Rod Dickson on 04********"
RMIT lost all 3 games vs Shepp, Chelsea and Hawthorn who all had depleted squads through injury and unavailability but they were very competitive in all contests, they will surprise many and be decent at Div 2 level.
Import Steve Coffey can shoot it well from the perimeter and Soloai/Towers combo will give them good size & presence.
Very rarely do you find a guy in his 20s without state league experience that can step in and be a key part of a team, if half of RMIT is filled with those types they'll struggle, but if they have a strong 5 and 2-3 proven guys off the bench in the rotation they may be fine.
RMIT's game against Shep was their first ever and if you saw that game, compared to their games against Chelsea and Hawthorn, you would have noticed that the coach simply rotated players against Shep (whilst almost turning around a 20pt deficit). They led Hawthorn for 90% of the game too.
Interesting vision on Bol Dak former YL2 MVP seen with Ballarat jersey? Has he made the move? Saw he had sat out of Meltons pre-season games and a real talent
RMIT hate has to be the continued treatment by the Big V in how they allow teams into the league? it like it is a midweek comp the way teams come in and out, Sherbrook famous for being 2 year wonders and then the talent falls away, RMIT will not last more than 3 years, M-UNI have bucked this trend over the years but the reality is University teams in this comp don't last! they don't have the volunteer backing, committee and the pipeline and support is usually poor.
As mentioned in the above post by someone else, they are in a space with enough teams available for players. More teams doesn't make a better comp it dilutes it!
Look at Womens Div 2 - expect for 3 sides it has the talent level of a midweek A/B Grade comp and is horrible to watch, let alone YL2 Womens, less teams, stronger associations better product.
Rant over. (crawling back into cave)
He arrived after their last practice game, so not likely to get a look at him until tip-off.
Seems the goods, with a good College Career in a mid-major conference at Utah State
Wallan did beat Coburg without him so will be interesting, they have also got a tall out of Warnambool 19 year old kid. But lost the home grown big down the road to DV for NBL1
On paper Pakenhams starting 5 should dominate D2M, the bench drops off a fair bit, I'm only going by last years Blackburn team, I don't know if they've added anything. If anyone is there tonight, post how the game pans out, remember I still think Blackburn will win by 20, just interesting to see how things go at the start.
It's as much pointing out that Blackburns best 5 aren't much, and that the squad is well coached and battle hard to just stay competitive in SCM. Pakenham seem to be the opposite where they have the recruits on paper but never seem to put it together.
Think you're seriously under valuing some of Blackburn’s starters. Often difference in their games is they don’t have one import, let alone 2 that the opposition has. Do Pakenham have any players that have been a contributor in any team higher than D2? Note , contributor, not bench warmer.
Who cares about names on paper.
Bridgewater does nothing
Also funny thing reading through the uniform rules that you are allowed to wear gloves this year. I can only speak for myself but why would anyone wear gloves surely it makes it impossible to shoot
Has anyone in D2 gotten worse? Seems to be 9 teams that have "recruited heavily" lol.
Those Pakenham additions are nice, but they really fell off last year to a really average team with no depth. Gaze would be the only guy worth keeping.
For mine its Mildura, Craigieburn, Sth Penn and Camberwell....with Pakenham, Altona and Wallan fighting it out for the remainder of the top 6.
What do you mean 'nothing has happened' at Blackburn. I agree that Paul has done a great job over the years with the Vikings, but please do not suggest that he has happily moved on to other things. Just not the facts. And yes.....well and truly in the relegation zone.
Seeing as though we've all been making our way too early predictions for the last 3 months. What are our actual tips for each division? Round 1 is in 2 days!
I go like this
D1M: Western Port
Wallan for D2W?
Does Blackburn and Melbourne Uni stand a chance as then next best from 2018.
It will be interesting to see what model most teams adopt, the more popular model of signing a gun import or two and surrounding them with great local talent, or the Eltham model from 2018, where they had a great local core for a few years and only added import later.
was in Geelong to watch Corio Bay v Hume.
Corio Bay looked good(imports impressive) no points in it at half time. Foul trouble for CB in second half cost them the game.
Take nothing away from Hume.
Hume looked disciplined and shot well. Hume to go top 2
Corio Bay to sit middle
Yes #659, Hume City SCM look like a very good team, they certainly got the rub of the green with 36 fouls for and 19 against. They did shoot it well at times, but Corio Bay also had their chances. Stingrays showed they can compete with their best on court and are still working it out, if they can gel they can definitely hurt some teams.
Only round one, long way to go...
Which of these winless teams after 4 rounds is in trouble in SCM
Werribee seem to have the fire power if not the defence and you feel Corio could beat the two below them
In the Women
Bulleen seems a shock to me, but I haven't kept up with the program that much Whittlesea are playing a division to far it seems
Division 1 Men
Whittlesea do the double basement with the men and the women hanging in the cellar, there mens team should be able to get some wins and get it together, Latrobe Energy this program was always so tough and overall has dropped away - is this just a changing of the guard there and on a rebuild, youth was horrible last season.
Division 1 Women
Warrandyte - it doesn't look good 0-4 and just lost to promoted Cragiburn (who have recruited well) they have already given Latrobe women the first win fo the season. They can't go ZIP for the season surely this mid table team will get it together.
Well hit us with who is playing above expectation or who is playing out of their skin?
We can focus on programs that are not achieving, in fact all these coaches and some of these players in these teams are paid a nice little fee, so clubs can be invested. Welcome to Sports winners and losers. I don't think 4 wins is enough to see a trend for finals but I do think no wins 3 weeks in would be a concern for any program and I'm interested to find out why.
Maybe there is a good reason, import injured, players due back from college etc etc.
Will 3-0 Broady Women run the table on this league?
Whose import is providing the most BANG early in the season?
You can see those things by looking at the same standings you're viewing to call out some teams - you would just rather focus on the negative.
Two sides to sports (welcome!) and its increasingly obvious those who haven't played at a high level would rather focus on the bottom rather than the top - good for you, but don't drag us down either
Here are some positives that you can absolutely put some stock into:
Casey SCM, Mildura men and women, Pakenham D2M
I would say Warrandyte Women losing to Craigiburn as an interesting result, a long standing fixture in that league being beaten by a new comer.
Same with Corio, a team that pushed Broady Men early in the season but still haven't a got a win another interesting point in the league.
Being told Latrobe had 7 players is sad, I certainly aren't happy to read that what should be done, its a discussion point.
Tell me more about Casey SCM, Mildura men and women, Pakenham D2M?
At least we know 1 person is reading posts in here.
Latrobe men are apparently waiting on imports, not sure what the hold up is. Mixed with their core 4 that have been there a while, they should be competitive. They have zero depth though and an untried coach so will struggle if any starter is unavailable which has happened already. Their main player Hughes, is a very good scorer. Played Melbourne Tigers SEABL last 2 season but has returned to Latrobe (played in their title winning team 3 seasons back).
@PersonalFoul and anonymous fair to say Corio Bay had their full compliment against Hume City and pushed them but were still very much working out team dynamics in their season opener. What you don't know from reading stats is that since that game the Stingrays also had two key young talented players injured and have been without them, relying on some of the older bodies and especially their imports to keep scoring pressure on. One quarter in their games appears to be the killer, for the other three questers they are staying with their opposition for the most part. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it as you are focusing on something based on what appears to be lacking critical knowledge.
@bear good knowledge, my original statement was to provoke some response on this forum that was a little boring. Good to know, the young guys juniors through the ranks?
I have heard of some teams having issues with import visa, a change in the paper has delayed some guys in NSW & QLD and one or two in Victoria that turned up 2-3w weeks out from the start of the season.
"Werribee, Corio and Blackburn just look like D2 teams."
Don't be silly.
There may be a class difference between those 3 and the better CM teams but pretty sure Blackburn beat a currently undefeated in D2 Pakenham team by 30+ in the preseason. Looks like they’ve added an import since then too.
As Bear said Corio will get better and they already pushed Hume.
To say those three are D2 teams is nonsense. Pretty sure all of them would smack the D2 teams.
Not wanting to talk negative again but at 0-4 they have become everything this forum thought they were so far. Hopefully they get a win against Sherbrooke this weekend.
But not the greatest addition to the Big V Leagues. but I guess someone has to win and someone has to lose.
Happening a lot by the looks of it.
Chelsea (SCM & D1W)
Considering most clubs have been getting imports for decades now, is there a change in rules that some didn't know about ? What's the reason behind so many ?
Where is everyone
RMIT IMport goes off for on the weekend
Mam Ayuel kid is ripping senior and YL in a weekend.
Are we allowed to talk about teams that are winless after 5 rounds
What about the teams that are still undeafted? who is running the table? Mckinnon Men?
Clear separation in top tier teams.
SCM- mckinnon, Casey, keilor, hawthorn are far above the rest of comp.
SCW- Hume, Casey, keilor, sunbury are above the rest. Mckinnon, sunbury, and Casey still waiting on few players to come in from overseas.
D1M- Shepparton well ahead rest of comp even with their import change. Next closest would be western port.
Scm - mckinnon's Challenge will be staying motivated after being undefeated early on.
Scw - Sunbury will get stronger as year goes but other teams have stepped up their game chasing them. What on earth has happened to Southern Pen?
D1m - weatern Port v Shepparton next round will tell the full story. Wp only loss narrowly without corletto and another big scoring starter. Look deeper than every other team, different lineups and edficiency every week. Keys and Warrandyte be locks for finals.
D1W - Camberwell and bellarine surprise packets. Mildura still team to beat.
D2m - Mildura with Calvin and an import, up against Pakenham with deep team of players who have come down from higher divisions. Will Mornington pull out again after this year?
D2w - Blackburn staying motivated alas McKinnon in scw. Pakenham and Sherbrooke have both re tooled over off season and look like contenders.
Early all star 5 picks.
SCM- mike Anderson (keilor), Dillion Stith (mckinnon), Eric Williams (mckinnon), Raheem Lemons (Casey), Jake Heath (Blackburn). Mvp- mike Anderson so far
SCW- Erin Bollmann (keilor), Breanna Brock (Hume), karen Duever (sunbury), geralyn Leaupepe (sunbury), Sarah Halejian (Casey) Mvp- Erin Bollmann so far
The one thing bigV did well, was produce plenty of media content. Not all of it super professional and serious, but at least it was consistent and had some kind of insight.
The lack of content and the quality of content out out now is utter rubbish. You can just read the previews/reviews each week and it's basically written by a random intern who has no idea about the leagues, or the game in general. The league need to get some people in the office with some actual insight into the league or get out and around the people at the clubs to generate some better content.
The BigV seems flat at every level ever since the introduction of NBL1.
Bit of an attitude of "If you aren't playing NBL1 / Youth for a NBL1 side - whats the point?"
The championship Men/Women division should be at least 12 teams and held to the same game day standards as NBL1.
Then merge Div1 & Div 2. Some of the bottom end teams in both divisions are no better than a domestic team.
Outside the Arcs is attempting to do a great job in the Northern Suburbs.
I think the league might want to look at how the VAFA do it, they have a different person/intern/ to cover each league, who has more in depth knowledge and they offer a 'little' opinion to attempt to spice up the games some more.
Definitely support refs pushing back when players/coaches whine too much.
But atm there is no communication from refs and taking the emotion out of game.
Always frustrating when a bad/questionable call is made and then compounded by a quick whistle on tech
There is always the 'refs make mistakes just like players' argument, difference is that players are mostly held accountable
for mistakes by coaches
Nearing the halfway point of the Big V 2019 year, what are we looking at for each division? Thoughts?
SCM- Mckinnon looks like they could run the table easily
SCW- Keilor has the MVP and stays ahead of a close three headed race, broadmeadows looks to be biggest threat to them. Sunbury also there.
D1M- Probably the closest division in the entire Big V...Western Port still my favorite at this stage
D1W- Mildura is well ahead of the comp
D2M- Mildura could very well go undefeated. Camberwell once a thought for grand final but have been beat twice already by Heat
D2W- Sherbrooke and Pakenham the only two threats on paper, but haven't seen much from this division
SCM - in 'run the table easily' I assume you mean go undefeated. That will be difficult having already lost a game to Casey.
McKinnon - playing extremely well. Big 3 of Stith, Williams, Tomada are right up there as best combo in BigV and probably NBL1. Not a lot of opportunity to improve on what they have currently but it may be enough to get them a flag.
Casey - Have started season well but a lot of old legs in the team so hopefully can keep up the pace. Not a great defensive team so need to have 2-3 of their guys scoring big numbers. Very impressive win against McKinnon.
Hawthorn - Hard to judge where they are at. Have some good wins and then not so good losses. Roster seems quite solid but they are juggling lineups around so may be form or injury problems. If shots not dropping for Barry/McBreaty then they may not put enough points on board to get over a McKinnon/Casey.
Hume - quietly putting together a good start for a team with a big change over offseason. Depth and versatility is good, just need to play together and settle into roles.
Keilor - Have looked great and very ordinary. Loss to Blackburn could come back to hurt them down the stretch. Quite a volatile team with already numerous ejections of players and coach, and lots of Ts. Interesting to see how they bounce back from three losses in a row.
Then the rest...
So Big V season leader stats make no sense in some divisions. Players with more attempts and better percentages excluded from the top 5. D1M and D2M in particular.
And the ladders are all over the shop. Percentages listed however teams listed on the ladder in alphabetical order !!
% on ladders hardly ever used as it goes by Head-to-Head results if there are 2 or more teams tied on win/loss.
% used when the head to head doesn't separate the teams, but in the case of CM, with each team playing each other 3 times there will always be a leader in head to head.
Keeping with CM, it looks like Hume, Keilor, and Hawthorn will be fighting it out for the 3rd and 4th playoff spots (unless one of the teams drops some games they should win)
In this case, the H2H is very important as it may come to a 3 way tie...
Officating is sadly stretched too thin, with two many leagues YL2 and extra games means more referees are being 'fast tracked'
Some real rubbish coming out of the league regarding trying to protect these refs when some of them are just not up to the speed of the game.
agree its the leagues fault but it doesn't help coaches or players who are expecting a certain standard.
Wednesday nights won't work. Clubs and Venues with established midweek money making comps, and the need for BIG V to have all the show of anthem, music, court announcer. They won't allow teams to have noisemakers or atmosphere but want all this to go with it.
Remove YL2 would be a good start - maybe even remove Div 2 and have just SC (rebrand) and a 2nd Tier. Condense the comp, don't dilute it
Scrap U/21's and just have YL. If they are not good enough to play YL at U/21 level they should just play domestic
ANON - I have been preaching this for a while, problem is VJBL loves the extra money for another 2 years from these sucker teams and players
i like youth league as curtain raisers, but maybe like footy they only go up if the senior team get promoted, use as true reserve grade. And go back to allowing maybe 2-3 players be over 23
BIG V should be the equivalent of VAFA, and NBL 1 the equivalent of VFL...
Big V is the lowest entry basketball for players that want to play coached organised systematic basketball in Victoria.. It can't be both 'entry level' and 'elite'.. if anything, it should have more teams and more divisions - make it an 'Amateur league' instead of a Semi-professional league. leave that for NBL 1.
Big V should be an amateur league in between casual domestic and semi professional that offers players coached systematic basketball...
Each club fields 2 teams (maybe even 3) in male and female comp: Seniors and Reserves. Travel together, train together etc. Field teams that are more local to each other that require less travel commitment - also leave that for NBL 1.
Would solve the Big V identity crisis, no?
What in god's name was that? Haha
You can't compare basketball to football. Social comps in football pretty much don't exist, and basketball has multiple levels of social/ domestic leagues on every night of the week, in every suburb. Football certainly doesn't have that.
NBL1 - take top 4 teams from 2019 BigV CM (assuming they want to go)
BigV Champ Men - Combine 5 teams from 2019 CM and Div 1
BigV Div 1 - possibly take 16 teams (have qualifying tournament each year for teams coming 12-16 to give teams wanting to enter a chance)
VYCM - keep same
YL1 - possibly take 16 teams (have qualifying tournament each year for teams coming 12-16 to give teams wanting to enter a chance)
^^ Wow, now you want a 22 team elite league. Which four clubs can send both mens and womens teams into this league? We added four within about a 10-km radius into NBL1 this year. Hope you can spread them out a bit more.
Qualifying games to enter a league? WTF?? Fixtures? Venues? Planning? Sorry, guys, you got beaten today, so no season for us...maybe next year!! What do you mean you want a clearance?
^^^^^ We can't find courts and referees and now you want reserves teams for each club. Where does this money or players or coaches magically come from? Curtain raisers? We have double headers every night. Men play after the women!!
What planet do some of you live on? Just stop and think a little before you post such rubbish.
Response to #745873
Sure there may be some logistic problems and some details needing further working but your response and attitude, without making any of your own suggestions, is really helpful.
NBL would always remain as the elite league.
NBL1 - to become a true development league and maintain a level of quality, I believe 20 - 24 teams is sustainable. Locations of teams is not necessarily a reason to accept/reject teams as we know that players don't necessarily live in the location that there club is.
But I would think some increased representation from the west/northwest Melbourne would be a positive (Hume/Keilor/Werribee)
BigV CM - Qualification or relegation process to be further defined but I don't see, at a high level, why some qualification tournament or similar couldn't be considered. If you ran this at the same time as league playoffs or around the time when clubs nominate for BigV then it would allow for plenty of time for court hire etc (clubs wouldn't be booking before this anyway)
Clearances already occur when teams are either not in the league players want to be in, teams are not successful in their league, or players are offered $ to move. It may increase but I doubt it would be much different.
Not sure where the reserve team comment came from but this approach would actually reduce the number of teams in the BigV competitions that would free up resources and also lift quality.
I understand it would be tough for teams/clubs that aren't able to qualify for the Div1 league, and not be included in a BigV league, but if this is the case should they be competing anyway??? Go away, build your program, compete in the various tournaments etc
Any constructive suggestions appreciated and welcome.
Sorry, maybe I should be more helpful...
The fans, sponsors, volunteers and administrators are local and they are the lifeblood of your club. It is hard for communities to support multiple clubs in similar areas. That is why I think the next NBL1 clubs should be out west. For me, location should absolutely be a reason to include/exclude clubs and it was disappointing that the east got flooded so much this year. Don't worry about where players and coaches live, they will travel a long way if you have a good club.
This carries into the idea of qualification and relegation. Don't focus on a team of players and focus on the basketball club and everything contained within (and I mean EVERYTHING). It is so much more than a team of 10 men or women. It all builds from the ground up thru the junior program and a strong administrative base. Strong, sustainable clubs cannot pop up overnight.
BigV has a big job ahead to work out where it now fits in the bigger scheme of basketball in Victoria. It was originally a country league (CVIBL) and is very different now to when I first entered the league in the 90s. I see no reason that it can't significantly change again if it has effective leadership.
Only hear from them if you've done something wrong .... like didn't photo copy enough programs (can we create a league app for this stuff?)
The league has lost pace off court with other comps in other codes.
I still like the on court, the coaching and the players.
Just saw the video of that buzzer beater. Got it off before the backboard lit up and still a tenth of a second left. Interesting to see the ref straight away call it no good but thankfully the other bloke over ruled him.
What is wrong with GESAC awesome venue to play at. If the problem is crowd numbers they can always put temporary stands on the far side like other dtadiums do.
Where to now for Keilor SCM. Spent up big again then mid season when it looks like they wont make finals bring in 3 more guys. Minutes allocation all over the place I bet it wouldn't be a happy dressingroom.
While keilor and werribee have the location they don't have the recruiting tools.
Werribee men’s team lost two games on the weekend by total of 65 pts. Why would you want that in the NBL1.
As for the imports of werribee they put up huge numbers cause no one else on their team shoots the ball.
As for keilor. The team they put together has not beat any team in the top 4 of the CHamp Men. If they are spending a lot of cash on that roster and can’t get it done then speaks about their recruiting methods and the coach.
Hume City have a great argument with both their teams doing well and with a nice size stadium and location.
Casey can make an argument that they are in massive growing area, they have one of the best stadiums in Victoria, their men’s team are doing well. Only negative is their women’s team but cause have a lot of cash that they could argue will be thrown at the women’s team next season.
Casey is a great venue.
Hume City, old ABA venue and still better than most (NBL1 could convince council funding)
Werribee makes sense, again modern venue and facility with men and womens team but some of those loses hurt the resume.
Keilor I think need to prove more in SCM before consideration.
Werribee in the mix to make the move.
Results in SCM and SCW are apparently not that high on the criteria to get in. that makes sense otherwise McKinnon would be a lock to go.
I'm guessing when you go up you are able to recruit heavily and build from scratch.
The next question as always is what happens to SCM
i think this need to be called Division 1 again or Premier League as State Champ doesn't seem right with a lack of teams
I like what NBL1 is doing even with the haters for Vic Bias, a Vic Bias seems obvious when you look at teams, money available and venues in the eastern seaboard region.
I just hope the Big V Continues to be a building ground for players & coaches looking to strive for NBL1 and above
I would love to see more country teams back in the Big V buts thats me wanting the old days back
State Champ is still the same as it was a few years ago so why change the name? It is and always has been the league directly under what is now called NBL1.
Its just that some clubs have developed and now can compete the higher level. Same can be said about teams growing and now playing in State champ. For instance look at Chelsea and Keilor, they both used to be Div 2 men and now could make finals in state champ by growing their club and winning their way up.
Thats not the real problem tho. What is the league doing when the bottom half of each of the comps? Clearly the whole league across every division needs to be looked at.
Also, are there going to be teams that drop out of NBL1
I think it was a 2 year commitment from the clubs in there.
Sabres seem to be really struggling
20 teams, 2 x conferences...
Past performance of both men/women was supposed to be one of the criteria initially (although Eltham were accepted and the women hadn't been that strong in SCW)
Quick transition for Keilor to go from D1M to SCM (for 2 years) and then into NBL1. Not sure the promotion would be warranted given they are likely to miss playoffs this year in SCM and potentially a big turnover of players next season (Kaba, Long, Anderson, Todd, Keleher, Bellman, Todorov would not be guaranteed for next season I wouldn't think)
Anon^, you are likely confused or not quite in tune with what is happening with the merger.
NBL1 will stay separate, as Supercats with that brand intact, the BigV programs will merge into Geelong United along with VJBL and they will be Association based, players fed from the joint domestic program. In essence that drops Big V teams from one Association, creating a new set of BigV teams from a new combined Association, the NBL1 will function independently as it is in a totally different competition structure to the BigV.
At least for now, who knows what is around the corner.......
So Bear, your saying the NBL1 will function independently, does that mean new front office as well?
New CEO & COO of BG loose out on being part of NBL1? Supercats won't get any funding from Geelong United?
Must be a lot of cash behind the scences to pull it off with out a domestic program to help support it, 'bold move cotton' don't know many other associations that could do that.
Promoting 6 teams to D1 would be the stupidest move ever by the Big V. People underestimate the difference between D1 and D2
Say two teams go up to SCM, Promoting 6 would make a 17 team comp.
Drop the uncompetitive teams in to D2 and make it 2 conference of 8 or 9
I never said all 6 should go up - again, all 6 are deserving over an unproven country town like Colac.
There's little difference in D1 and the good D2 teams. I think people underestimate D2, and the likes of Mornington and Maccabi weigh down a pretty good league.
Great time to start again and work out the best way to re-structure the BigV.
Maybe return to the roots and call it Premier League and Division 1 again. Premier could be 16 teams with two conferences and make D1 10-12 teams (I don't know the actual numbers). Or make Premier more exclusive leaving D1 the bigger league. Clubs can nominate their level initially, of course, maybe using two restricted player vs one restricted player to distinguish the levels.
But the league then determines some solid criteria to initially position clubs into the appropriate level. Could still have different genders in different divisions. And then promote/relegate as they have, with both record and common sense in effect.
I can't see any overriding reason to change Youth League though. It's up to BigV as to whether they demand a higher standard from teams, but I prefer to be more inclusive rather than exclusive at U23. This competition includes the NBL1 clubs, so YL will always be massive and probably have three levels of standard.
In terms of being able to support a SCM side as an association, there are only really Westernport and Sunbury in D1M that could successful transition. Maybe Bulleen but they are under-performing at the moment.
The rest with the exception of Warnambool and Shepparton are lucky to be in D1
Coburg promoted from Div 2, not exactly killing in the league but holding themselves accountable.
Big difference between top and bottom of D1, not so much in D2 from outside the Top 4
YL is fast and I have said before YL2 is trashy basketball and with VJBL runnign U21s now its either one or the other, shortening this league would mean either more kids in U21s and a better standard (2 conf) YL1 instead.
Unless you are clearly in the wrong division, you probably need to add four starters and push your current starters to the bench in order to climb a division successfully. Each club then needs to determine whether that is what they want based on how they measure success for their club. Everyone is different.
Re: Big V Championship Men
Looking at the Average Points standing, there are 14 players averaging 20 points or more.
11 out of the 14 are Imports with David Shepard from Werribee leading with 25.82.
Leading Aus players are:
Jake Heath - Blackburn
Adrian Tomada - McKinnon
Mitchell Riggs - Chelsea
Looks like the Imports are worth the outlay.
RMIT sums up where the league has gone wrong. A club without long term resources or record gets in the league, bring in stud import and this makes them competitive. Now we have a league where the local talent is thin to say the least, then propped up by a good import and you are off. Top four teams have some depth. Then falls off a cliff. What is the point of having an import in D2?
My point exactly.
Someone find my previous post, RMIT is surrounded by Big V Teams and only dilutes the Division Further. Imports in D2 is an interesting thing? Some are great in great teams others are trash in trash teams (Sherbrooke & Wallan in recent years)
People argue they give to the community? do they? why not just recruit a stud Aussie and pay them to run clinics?
I said then and will say it again - RMIT will not last 5 years
Lets be honest, the league is not worried about quality it is about quantity. When was the last time any staff of Big V went out and actually watched a game, at least Nelson, Chambers & Sewell all went out and actually took interest in what was going on and then had a good spin on who needs to be where. There are so called clubs without domestic programs and financially strapped yet continue to play because of quantity. YL2 is bad and VJBL has U21s, one or the other not both. clubs need to show sustainability and home grown talent coming through to prove their worth not cuts from other teams and guys near retirement.
Communication is important anon, at this stage nothing much to send out other than what has already been sent because initial work groups are just getting started. You can rest assured there is work being done and when something needs to go out it should...
CM: Mike Anderson, Shepard, Heath, Stith, Kulas
CW: Bollman, Alicia Jenkins,Breanna Brock, Reinwald, Zammit
D1M: Johnson-Blount, Chauncey Orr, Ish Sanders, Ange
D1W: Aleysha Lovett, Vanessa Power, Jamison-Meyers, Darcy Saunders
D2M: Max Barkley, Manassa, Coffey, Calvin Henry/Pettway
D2W: Emmie Onial, Applewhite, Amelia Smith, Ellie Coutts
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:26 pm, Mon 25 May 2020 | Posts: 833,865 | Last 7 days: 424