Anonymous
Earlier this month

Are the Boomers a top 5 team?

First off I only watch NBA so admittedly I don't have a full breadth of knowledge on this topic. And the data I'm using is of active NBA players. I know that there are better players outside of the NBA but I'm just using the data I have. So based on the below do the Boomers make the top 5 cut? Where would you rank them?

Australia

Baynes
Bolden
Broekhoff
Dellavedova
Exum
Ingles
Maker
Mills
Simmons

Canada

Birch
Boucher
Gilgeous-Alexander
Joseph
Lyles
Olynyk
Powell
Stauskas
Thompson
Wiggins

Croatia

Bender
Bogdanovic
Hezonja
Saric
Zizic
Zubac

France

Ajinca
Batum
Fournier
Luwawu-Cabbarot
Mahinmi
Noah
Ntilkina
Okobo
Parker
Yabusele

Spain

Abrines
Calderon
Gasol
Gasol
Hernangomez
Hernangomez
Ibaka
Mirotic
Rubio

Turkey

Mejri
Asik
Illyasova
Kanter
Korkmaz
Osman


Serbia

Bjelica
Bogdanovic
Jokic
Marjanovic
Teodosic

Topic #44393 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

The way these tournaments are structured I think they are a rough chance of getting a medal but could just as easily finish in the 5-8 group.

Reply #720017 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Some teams have a plethora of talent in the euroleague.

Greece is pretty stacked when they all come together.

Reply #720018 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Earlier this month

The Boomers are a top 5 team, and possibly a top 3 team and it's for more than names on a page. The Boomers core now has a decade together, Olympic and world Cup experience, a culture of guys who bust guts and play the right way, and a program that is deep. They are at precisely the right age to make a run at this while some of the other powerhouses are getting on in years. There are certainly a lot of teams that can't be slept on who won't have the same NBA credentials but I think we can medal at the world cup and at the Olympics given we have most of our main guys.

Reply #720020 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Other countries get better at the same rate (if not quicker than we do).

We don't have a great stretch 4 and we don't have a stud 5.

People forget Coach K sticks Melo in the 4 and he goes 9/15 on 3s against us in Rio. We don't have a match-up for a guy like that (Melo in his prime, not Melo now). He was being guarded by Andersen, Bairstow and Baynes. Forget about it.

They're top 5 in the world, but stop speaking about it like it's a given. It's hard to win a medal. If it was easy we would have done it already.

Reply #720023 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Not with Andre coaching

Reply #720026 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

The teams above or close to us are

USA
Serbia
Canada
Greece
Slovenia
Spain
France
Turkey
Lithuania

Germany rising fast too.

Reply #720030 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Slovenia plagued by injury and absentees cost them. Won't see them at the WC.

Reply #720031 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Robbed of a medal last time with Andre coaching. Nothing has changed with results since.

Lot will depend on Bogut at the 5, and Baynes and who the third 4-5 back up is, Johnson certainly a possibility. Again everyone is assuming that all the nba guys will play but no guarantee they will all be available or in form, not all getting good game time at present. McCarron is playing very well and a few others. Cadee is chance despite the knockers with his ability to get players into the game and the way Moller is going with his length speed and defence could be a bolter.

Reply #720035 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Cadee is no chance.

We have Delly, exum, mills and sobey even if Simmons is out.

Reply #720037 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Earlier this month

Baynes/Maker/Bogut
Simmons/Bolden
Ingles/Creek
Broekhoff/Exum/Green
Mills/Delly

If Andre woke up and primarily played the lineup above with Simmons defensively at the 4 but offensively running point surrounded by shooting, we'd look terrific and be a tough cover for any team, even the US if 3 or 4 guys really lit it up from the perimeter.

But instead Andre will run his system with 2 bigs and 3 guards, all with equal opportunity and totally not suited to maximize our best players on offense, and with a second big guy unable to defend the perimeter.

His system is great with this current qualification team, and it's a good NBL offense, but time will tell if he shows the flexibility to change systems to suit the team, otherwise our best player will look like a super sized Cedric Jackson who's in a simmilar system with Bevo, his defender never leaving the paint when he doesn't have the ball, remember there's no illegal defense in FIBA.

Reply #720042 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Earlier this month

BTW that team above is for the Olympics 2020 when Ben will play, not the world cup.

Reply #720044 | Report this post


Leighton  
Earlier this month

All comers are fortunate Goran Dragic retired from international competition. He led Slovenia to the Eurobasket title last year alongside Luka Doncic, both named to All-Tournament Team. They beat Spain and Serbia to get it done. Would've been a real handful for upcoming events if Goran stayed on.

I think at full strength Australia is better than current FIBA ranking of 10th. Top 5? We finished 4th at last Olympics and I have current full strength team as better so yes I think so, need strong results/medals at World Cup and Olympics though.

Reply #720051 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Germany will surprise when you add

Schroeder
Theis
Kleber
Wagner
Hartenstein

Reply #720054 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Definitely in the top 5 in Australia.

Reply #720056 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Melbourne Boomers are not just a top 5 team but also title favourites. I bet they are also the only Boomers team thats had 4 Opals in it.

Reply #720057 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this month

And Gobert will make France tough to beat.

Reply #720058 | Report this post


Jasmine  
Earlier this month

Why are they Boomers and not just the Australian team? Why are there names like Matildas, Opals and Socceraroos? It is lame. Cheeseball. Yuck.

Reply #720061 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Reply #720064 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

OMG, is Mrs Cadee back on here, nearly fell out of bed seeing that comment about him making team. But Lemanis will probably select him.

Reply #720070 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Haters going to hate, I've never met any of them, just my opinion from watching. Last time I looked people are allowed opinions.

Reply #720080 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this month

I feel like its fair to say that there isn't much if any drop off between say a lot of Euroleague players and some of our bench NBA players;

Therefore, there's a lot of teams from Europe especially that are very good teams.

As noted above, a lot will depend on match-ups (could get a real stiff QF matchup you never know) and how well you play on the day(s).

Reply #720082 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this month

P.s I don't know the formula for how they do the rankings, but they look absolutely ridicolous.

Philippines at 30? versus NZ all the way down at 38? NZ are behind countries that I have never even seen on the international stage (Uruguay, Georgia, Senegal?)

Canada at 23 - should be more top 15? Mexico at 13 seems high too





Reply #720083 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

It a all about tornament wins and international games and who those international games are against. So Euro teams will always have higher ranking than us because they play better teams more often. Even woth the intro into the asian region unless we get a medal at a world event 10th is the best we will get for the men.

The opal are higher because they finish higher more consistently and play more warm up matches against better competitions

Reply #720084 | Report this post


XY  
Two weeks ago

In addition to the poor points available for winning tournaments in Asia, rankings are also based on eight years of results. We haven't been good across that whole period.

Finally, the world rankings points on offer for 1st to 3rd are huge, but coming 4th in a tournament you basically get no separation from 5th-8th (despite winning an extra game than those teams).

So Australia’s rank is likely to be in the 8-10 range for a while.

Reply #720099 | Report this post


XY  
Two weeks ago

France with Gobert should rightly be second favourites.

Canada has a poor international ranking for a reason- they have never put their best team together and their international results have been poor.

Reply #720100 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Two weeks ago


"Anonymous
Last week

The teams above or close to us are

USA
Serbia
Canada
Greece
Slovenia
Spain
France
Turkey
Lithuania"

USA = better than us
Serbia = better than us in 2016, not sure you can say that now
Canada = has the talent but has literally NEVER got it together
Greece = great Euroleague talent, but can't go with us at top flight
Slovenia = as above, will cause us some issues though
Spain = great talent, but getting old. 2016 may have been their last hoorah
France = As above
Turkey = Why?
Lithuania = young and up-and-coming but not seeing how they are better than us


Of the teams you listed I'd expect our best team to be better than everyone not named USA. Teams who are around the mark are Spain, France on their night. Everyone else could potentially beat us but I still tip us ahead.

Reply #720125 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two weeks ago

Food for thought, we're obviously assuming each team will be at full strength. If not, then it’s a lucky dip.

Take Simmons out of our squad and I’d drop us to 5-8; take out Baynes and Ingles and I’d drop us to 9-12.

Lemanis can’t be blamed for poor results if we don’t have strength and depth at key positions.

Reply #720132 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Lemanis can be blamed. have you never read hoops.com.au before? this place hates him. its like 2016 even even happened.

Reply #720136 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Turkey with willbekin are a different team.
Finished top of the group in qualifiers Over Spain, Slovenia, Latvia, Montenegro etc.

Greece are being underrated. Could be a dark horse to win it.

Reply #720139 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Yeah Macdub spot on that the gap between some NBA bench guys and the top of Euroleague is non-existent. Bolden a great example of that, was fine in Europe but not exactly setting it on fire. The only guys we have who are definitely at or above the level of top-tier Euroleague guys are Ben, Patty, Ingles, Delly, Broekhoff, Exum and Baynes.

Are we a top 5 team? Depends whether we finish there, really. Do we have the talent to do that? Yes. I think it's fair to suggest that we should be considered a decent shot to beat everyone except the US. Are there more than 5 teams who would go into a game against a full-strength Boomers side as favourites? US, Canada, France, Spain probably deserve to. Serbia is a toss up. Greece is interesting because Giannis is better than anyone we have and it's not like there's nothing else there. Most of the Euro powerhouses are capable of beating us, it's just a matter of the odds. So, in any given tournament, the Boomers should go top 8 and any result between about 2 and 6 wouldn't be outside of what you'd expect.

Reply #720141 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two weeks ago

Anon #136, I think you've only been reading half the posts. Going back to 2016, I think more posters applauded him than hung him out to dry.

As was said often, we were only a dubious ref decision away from Silver medal. How is that a coaching fail?

Reply #720142 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Nz with Adams would be up there imo.

Reply #720143 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Exum hasn't shown all that much to be in the certainties.
Adams I believe has made himself unavailable for NZ, some previous greavance.

Reply #720145 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Can we have him please?

Reply #720146 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Two weeks ago

"Food for thought, we're obviously assuming each team will be at full strength. If not, then it's a lucky dip.

Take Simmons out of our squad and I’d drop us to 5-8; take out Baynes and Ingles and I’d drop us to 9-12."

We were a literal bees dick away from a medal in 2016 without Simmons and also without a range of players we now have. We very well could finish between 5-8 without him but I still don't think getting much higher is out of the question.

I do agree with you on losing Baynes or Ingles though. When it comes to Simmons, you kind of can't lose something you never had. But if you take out Baynes and Ingles, those guys have been lynch pins of this team for a decade now. If you lose them you probably aren't going to have much of a tournament.

A lot will depend on form of players coming into the tournament. Names on jerseys doesn't get it done. We are definitely well and truly in the equation, but we could just as easily be toppled by an unheralded Euro team.

Reply #720147 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I think some people rate the mere fact of being on an NBA roster a little too highly sometimes. A significant number of our NBA contingent play few or no minutes at all: Broekhoff, Dellavedova, Maker, Bolden, Exum.

A separate issue with our team could be the lack of shot creators. Outside of Mills, who do you pass the ball to when offensive sets inevitably break down?

Reply #720152 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

#152, I agree that people overrate being on an NBA roster, but some of the guys you've listed don't make your point. Broekhoff has more than proven himself in Europe. Delly has performed both in the NBA and internationally in a way that I am completely comfortable with for a Boomers starter and at full strength we could choose to bring him off the bench. Exum has been patchy, but IMO he shows enough things often enough that from a coaching standpoint he's the sort of guy I'd love to have on the bench to throw out in specific situations and see what he manufactures. Maker and Bolden I agree with you.

I don't think 'shot creation' is a real issue. I don't see a lineup of Delly, Ingles, Broekhoff and a couple of half-decent bigs struggling to create looks. The three guards are all capable shooters, passers and decision makers, so we don't have to rely on iso breakdown ability.

Reply #720159 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Two weeks ago

"I don't think 'shot creation' is a real issue. I don't see a lineup of Delly, Ingles, Broekhoff and a couple of half-decent bigs struggling to create looks. The three guards are all capable shooters, passers and decision makers, so we don't have to rely on iso breakdown ability."

Yep. The only reason our offense broke down in Rio is because we relied too much on Bogut's passing and Serbia cut that off. I think we will have a few too many options this time around.

Reply #720160 | Report this post


Cody Byrne  
Two weeks ago

on paper the boomers have the 2nd or 3rd best collection of basketball talent in the world

sadly it doesn't translate, especially to fifa ball and the only real way that we could do anything is if a massive emphasis was placed on pace control and defence.

Ben Simmons will not get the open lanes he gets in the NBA .
Patty Mills is not what he was (and in his prime he was not very efficient either)
Nobody else is a shot creator . at the fifa level


Maybe a Delly/Mills/Ingles/Simmons/Baynes rotation?

Reply #720183 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Boomers are definitely top 5.

Canada has never seemed to be able to get it together - their players haven't seem committed to the national team, but if they do I suppose they will be another team up there.

Coming off the Olympics, Serbia should be the measuring stick for us. They are always strong at the international game.

France in theory should be quite strong, but seem to be a bit hit or miss? Most of their top quality NBA players are retired or past their prime - although that is far from the be all and end all in international ball.

Reply #720187 | Report this post


Greggo  
Two weeks ago

That's the opposite of the truth.

On paper we're probably the 10th best, but usually we manage to over perform.

Reply #720188 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

"on paper the boomers have the 2nd or 3rd best collection of basketball talent in the world

sadly it doesn't translate, especially to fifa ball and the only real way that we could do anything is if a massive emphasis was placed on pace control and defence."


If by pace control you mean generating pace then I agree with you. The current system is excellent for making oppo teams defend from early in the shot clock and defend a whole heap of exchanges. It's something a lot of European teams aren't overly comfortable with and suits our players, who've grown up in systems where the ball gets shared.

The World Cup is super tough, there are a lot of good teams out there, but we certainly have the talent and system to make the top 8 and from there, if our luck holds up, challenge for a medal.

Reply #720190 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Two weeks ago

With the sheer amount of teams it's gonna be a lot easier to medal at the Olympics than World Cup, in my estimation. I think continuity in our system is going to be the thing that pushes us above our weight. I also think people underestimate the talent we do have.

Reply #720196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Cody Byrne I don't think there's any part of your post that's right.

The next WC is the first time we'll ever have anything approaching the 'on paper' 2nd or 3rd best squad in the world and as has been generally accepted upthread, you wouldn't have us as a clear-cut 2nd or 3rd or even 4th. As Greggo said, we've historically over-performed.

Patty has been sensational for the Boomers. He might not always have been the most efficient but he was an international star years before having any positive impact in the NBA. And his play for the Spurs this season has definitely not been a deterioration. I thought he would struggle without Manu who, despite the positional designations, carried most of the creative load in the Spurs second unit, but he's been great. Yes, his speed will drop off in the next few years but he is so much smarter now, his A/T ratio compared to earlier in his career has improved out of sight.

You think NBA defences go out there *planning* to give Ben Simmons open lanes? Yeah they say "hey, the only guy on this team who can shoot is JJ so let's all hang out on the perimeter so Ben can destroy us at the ring." He creates those lanes because he is a freak, and will do so at least as well at FIBA level where the Boomers can surround him with way more shooting than the 76ers currently do.

Reply #720215 | Report this post


rjd  
Two weeks ago

Looking at Euro qualifications and it appears that Slovenia and Croatia are out of the WC. Poland the surprise qualifier in Croatia's group, while one of Montenegro, Latvia or Ukraine will take the 3rd spot in Slovenia's group. That's two bogey teams out of the way, but Europe is Europe so there will be other tough opponents to take their places.

Reply #720407 | Report this post




 

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