Jack Toft
Last year

Melbourne v Brisbane Dec 10

The Brisbane train chooofs off the Melbourne tonight. Gee, a special time slot game featuring Melbourne. Who would have thought? It's like a special time slot game featuring Collingwood in the A(V)FL

Brissie fans are an excitable lot and maybe it just the hot weather, but after knocking off Melbourne last time they met, they seem as excited as if they have just played a round of cane toad golf.

Melbourne and Perth are the teams to beat at the moment. There's a log jam of teams behind them, but everyone is lining up to get a W off of United.

The box score from the Brissie win makes for some interesting reading. There's nothing much separating the teams, except Brisbane won the boards and shot a little better. The haters got stuck into Cadee, but until you have your own clothing range baby, haters gunna hate.

Lamar Patterson obviously won that game off his own hand, so he should expect some very close attention this game.

Brisbane in the top 4 at the moment, but may slip out after a loss tonight.

Topic #44444 | Report this topic


Tom  
Last year

Brisbane on a high. Melbourne rueing one that got away. Kennedy, Goulding production is down. Puts it all on Casper to carry the day. When those outrageous 3's aren't falling, they look vulnerable.
They need McCarron and Boone (high pick and roll) to get involved down stretch instead of leaving it to Casper.
Brisbane building nicely and have edge for mine.

Reply #721712 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

It's funny how y'all don't believe

Reply #721775 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

Melbourne look sick. Brisbane up and confident. One way so far.

Reply #721776 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

#AllAboard

Reply #721777 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Who is the second colour commentator? He's annoying.

Reply #721778 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Liam Santamaria?

Reply #721779 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

He is trying to accentuate his voice but it's just not working.

Reply #721780 | Report this post


Jick  
Last year

United can't stop Bairstow!

Reply #721781 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Melbourne look fully sick now. What a topsy turvy quarter. Ware with a buzzer beater from the car park.

Reply #721782 | Report this post


rabbit82  
Last year

boring basketball

Reply #721784 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

Kennedy 2minutes 2 fouls.

Reply #721785 | Report this post


Jick  
Last year

It's only boring when non-shooting dinosaurs like Vukona are out there. Wait til Bairstow comes back on and dominates.

Reply #721786 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Perhaps, Perthworld.

Hey Perthworld, hey hey Perthworld... #YouOnBoard?

I should be doing Bullets social

Reply #721788 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/44441-will-the-bullets-make-playoffs/#p721567

Reply #721789 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

Melbourne raining 3's and turned the game around. Brisbane have to grind their way back.

Reply #721791 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Well put your money on. As once dictated to me, if you feel that way, lay down the cash.

Reply #721792 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

All.A.Board.

Reply #721793 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Dangerfield = traitor

Reply #721794 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Dangerfield would be a great basketballer if he didn't have to dribble. Busting packs left and right. No one could tackle him

Reply #721795 | Report this post


Jick  
Last year

Why is Makoto even on this team?

Reply #721797 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Because he likes bullet trains

Reply #721798 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

too much puppet, not enough master from the so called puppetmaster of the bullets offence.
bullets starters have 1 assist between the lot of them.

Reply #721799 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Credit where credit is due. Refereeing has been great tonight so far.

Have had some really good no-calls.

And look what you get as a result- entertaining high scoring half.

Reply #721800 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Is the microphone close to Vickerman tonight/is he wearing one?

I can hear his voice all game.

I was surprised by how much he talks through the offence (as it was down MU's end of the Court) - saying 'go to work', 'one more pass', etc. Not saying its wrong just a different style.

Reply #721802 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

All coaches wear microphones in all games. Have for years.

Reply #721803 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Thanks koberulz. Just wanted have they put the sound up on Vickermann's tonight or is this normal?

Reply #721806 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

@Manu I'm on BNE +7.5.

Reply #721809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Refs letting calls go does not always lead to entertaining and/or high scoring games.

Reply #721810 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

MACDUB the mic volume is definitely up tonight.

Reply #721811 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

#810, yes I get that. And certainly not the case for all matchups. But I think its definently helpful creating an entertaining game for these two teams especially..they like fluidity, free-flowing basketball and it brings out their best players IMO.

Reply #721814 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

even the best reffing around can't put the ball in the basket though

Reply #721815 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Hutchy has been in a good paddock

Reply #721816 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Nbl tv you're kidding me

Reply #721817 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

United cooked.

Reply #721819 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Last year

Jeremy Kendle looks like Hooley but is a significantly better player!!!

Reply #721820 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Brisbane is for real.

I think we have our top 4, barring major injuries.

Reply #721821 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Kendle.

Reply #721822 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

DO YOU FEEL ME YET

Reply #721823 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Moller been ruled out by doctor I'd say or vickerman make any subs.

Reply #721824 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Moller ain't stopping this train

Reply #721826 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Will Hiejima finally get some minutes?

Reply #721827 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

OH Patterson you are too good. Only taken 11 shots to date. Melbourne panicking right now.

Reply #721828 | Report this post


Midrange  
Last year

Melbourne is missing Wesley out of the post.

Losing the battle for Kay hurt big time.

Reply #721829 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

You know, since is Japanese and that's the home of the original bullet train.

Got to pay homage to the land of the samurai.

Reply #721830 | Report this post


Doug  
Last year

Does Vickerman understand the travel rule? Think he has asked several times each possession and is yet to get it called.

Reply #721831 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Trist is such a poser.

Reply #721832 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

Melbourne mentally shot. Brisbane just shot up the ladder to No.2/1. Love to see them take on Perth right now.

Reply #721833 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

He was great and got them back in till the illegal hit, but probably right.

Lemanis knockers had better think again, he's done very well. Kendall isn’t that good a player and under a good coach looks like a world beater.

Reply #721834 | Report this post


J  
Last year

Tom what are you on? Bullets aren't 1st or second after the win. They are looking much better though, that is true

Reply #721835 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Lemanis has haters, not knockers. (It is Gleeson who has knockers)

Reply #721836 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Kendle's injection really changed that game; big-time. When Cadee came back on I thought "Oh no", but they closed it out OK.

Kendle can flat out play and he looks unbelievably comfortable - the complete opposite of someone who has played sporadically in the NBL;

Goulding just looks a step slow right now - doesn't have that same handle/light of foot to his game at this point. Not sure if its from the injury or what?

Reply #721837 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Perthworld is established as being on board. Who else wants to join us for frivolity and high jinks riding the rails?

Reply #721838 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Melbourne mentally shot. Brisbane just shot up the ladder to No.2/1. Love to see them take on Perth right now."

Agreed. Perth lucky to get 3 of their Bris games out of the way before Patterson settled in properly.

Reply #721839 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

"Lemanis has haters, not knockers. (It is Gleeson who has knockers)"

Amazing.

Reply #721840 | Report this post


J  
Last year

Perth didn't get any sydney while they were working it out, I'd say it more than balances out. Patterson was very well spoken, seemed extremely genuine aboit the belief in the squad, they very well could go top 4!

Reply #721842 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

What's up with Boone?

Great D by Brisbane, doubled Casper and United had no answers

In that situation CG, Kennedy must step up. They didn't. Kennedy sat for most of 2nd half. That's bizarre

Patterson the perfect addition to this team

Reply #721843 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

I'm on board.

Bullet trains need long, straight tracks to build up to full speed.

The Nullabor to Perth rail line happens to have the world’s longest straight section of track.

How much speed and momentum will the bullet train have in Perth?

Next station, red army devastation.

Reply #721844 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Melbourne on the slide, very hard to go back to back, as above Goulding looking slow and Kennedy has slipped. Barlow also a few poor games McCarron likewise.
Brisbane looking on the way up.

Reply #721845 | Report this post


What a damn shame Dwayne Russell was not commentating.

Would have been great to hear him commentating while his team was losing

Reply #721849 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

CG43 looked at times like a spoilt brat with no energy - . Why did Moller not play more ? Boone and Kennedy very flat again.

Reply #721855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Who can work Melbourne subs, Moller very good in the first hardly seen again, most of the guys look disinterested.

Reply #721860 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

disinterested is a good description, but why? it is not like they don't have the resources and support, they are well paid and they just need to go. most people would kill for a life like that so why no passion or efforts tonight?

Reply #721863 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Do Melb have the balls to try Goulding off the bench?

Reply #721864 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Melbourne chose Kennedy over Patterson what a fuck up. Time to check Boone into the aged care facility!!!

Reply #721878 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

The trouble is, with Boone struggling to handle back to back games, how's he going to get through a best of 3 or best of 5?

He's definitely a step slower than last year.

United has a roster where they're relying on big output at the offensive end from the same 4 or 5 guys. They have good defenders throughout the depth chart, but they don't have a great deal of scoring depth. When CG isn't on his game, Boone's sore and sitting on the bench, Kennedy's not having an impact... you're not getting the win.

Vickerman was right in the presser, needed other guys to step up when Casper was getting doubled. Didn't happen

Reply #721887 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Double teaming Ware makes it hard for Boone and Ware to work there pick and roll, Melbourne look like they only run plays for Goulding and Ware and rely on there defence, take Ware out Goulding a yard slower, no offence.
Will they start Goulding on the bench, I doubt it, like to see Moller given more time instead on off and no play 2nd half, he was very good last year when Prather went down. Barlow has been fantastic but at 35 is playing to many minutes and it's showing as he’s plateaued. Hooley to much dribble, opponents coaches are happy for him to have the ball. McCarron has been good if a little inconsistent as with Pledger, both good but no so much next game.
Brisbane certainly settling down as a good unit, the addition of Patterson has given them real polish, very similar player to Prather but bigger. Cadee has lifted his defence to just be good enough, his dicision making is very good and his shot is back. TeRangi is a total surprise, playing good inside and out, always competes on D. Bairstow and Vukona are tough and just enough offence. Hodgson in career form, just got watch stupid fouls. Kendall a nice piece to Cadee hungry.

The hit on Moller was great, I like to see the reaction of some of the floppers in the league cop that, they’d have ended up in the front row.

Reply #721888 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Jason Caee.

Have fittingly left the d out on purpose. He's a matador at best.

Reply #721890 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Last year

Vickerman was right in the presser, needed other guys to step up when Casper was getting doubled. Didn't happen


LV I believe you have skipped the important stage of blaming home cooking in the NBL.

Can we please back track to that stage of mourning?

Reply #721892 | Report this post


J  
Last year

It is inexcusable for a team with cg 43 kennedy and mccaron not to find an open shooter from the ware double, make cg43 the closest player to casper, double if you dare

Reply #721895 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Put some respeck on they name now

Reply #721896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

put some choo choo on they train

Reply #721899 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Lovebroker, do you feel me yet?

Reply #721912 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Chump

Reply #721913 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

"Do Melb have the balls to try Goulding off the bench?"

They already have.

Reply #721945 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

Kendle does all the hard work and Cadee comes on to take the credit, typical.

Some woeful plays throughout the game, Te Rangi travel into an airball from outside the arc, Barlow airballing, Kennedy and Boone constantly missing buckets under the ring.

Everyone talks about Terrico not being good enough, as a Cats fan, I'd take him all day over DJK, constant lack lustre performances and it amazes me how often his shots and put backs just roll off and out of the ring.

Reply #721956 | Report this post


Greggo  
Last year

Kennedy hasn't impressed me at all.

He's a bit of a 'do it all' player that doesn't excel at anything in particular.

I don't think that's what Melbourne need.

Reply #721957 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

United is 9-5, that's halfway through the season which might be a good time to reflect on where they are at.

They've won a lot of close games by virtue of clutch plays and being slightly better than their opponents down the stretch. 12 of their 14 games have been decided by 8 points or less. 5 of their games have been decided by 3 points or less, OR gone into overtime.

Some of those wins were against teams who have since changed imports or whose imports were under done at the time (United beat Adelaide with Deleon, and Brisbane with Patterson before he got going). United has also beaten Sydney twice, and Sydney could easily make a major upgrade to their roster by replacing Wear.

So, United clearly needs to improve. Where's that improvement going to come from?

Are Boone and Kennedy completely safe?

Reply #721967 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

They should sign a fourth import like they did last year.

Reply #721970 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

I think United have too many "good" players and not enough "role" players. Everyone wants a piece of the pie, Barlow I think is stifling what Kennedy and Boone can do.

Reply #721971 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

Boone is not really a high usage type of player though is he? Why I thought he fit well there was because he is still effective when others are doing the creating.
Prather & Wesley are huge losses. They're both so versatile that they allow others to play to their strengths.
Still plenty of talent on that roster but it's not the same "pick your poison" dilemma for opposition teams that it was last season.

Reply #721972 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

Yeah Boone isn't a high usage guy, but hard for him to get into the game when Barlow is trying to snatch up every rebound and run the floor. Think you hit the nail on the head though with Prather and Wesley being huge loses, both a hell of a lot better than Barlow and Kennedy.

Reply #721974 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

"I think United have too many "good" players and not enough "role" players."

IMO, outside of Goulding, Ware and Kennedy if he gets going, Melbourne's roster is full of role players. I think they have a nice balance, and a couple of losses doesn't change that for me.

Reply #721993 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

"IMO, outside of Goulding, Ware and Kennedy if he gets going, Melbourne's roster is full of role players. I think they have a nice balance, and a couple of losses doesn't change that for me."

In terms of NBL, Ware, Goulding, Kennedy, Boone, Barlow and McCarron are all very good players. Boone and McCarron are prob the 2 that play a role. Guys like Moller, Hooley etc take way too many shots so IMO they don't play a role, they want theirs too. If they click towards the end of the season though, it'll be tough for every other team.

I don't think another team has a lineup that strong.

Kings: Bogut, Randle, Lisch, Newley (Kickert borderline the way they are using him)
Cats: Cotton, Kay, Terrico (everyone else plays a role depending on what's required)
Bullets: Gliddon, Patterson

Yes I'm a Cats fan, but I think the reason why they are top is everyone buys into the system and has a role. Wagstaff (points off the bench if needed), Hire (hustle and rebounding), Steindl (outside shooting), Martin (defense), Norton (passing adding extra offense), Brandt/Jervis (negating the other bigs), Vague (length). I don't feel there are many other players on other teams you can say what their roles are apart from those that score?

Reply #722001 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Agree Paul, I think the balance overall is OK

With the caveat that they're a little thin in the backcourt- McCarron playing extensively at the 3, so the bulk of the backcourt minutes are going to Ware and CG like last year. An 11 man rotation with two slow bigs sitting on the bench essentially means it's a 9 man rotation.

They're heavily reliant on Ware- with the possible exception of Bogut in Sydney, there isn't another player in the league who means as much to his team as Ware does to United IMO. Cotton in Perth probably comes in 3rd, but they seemed to do alright without him.

But other than that, the question isn't so much balance for me. It's whether they're good enough.

There's no panic stations here- 2 losses doesn't change the fact that they're 2nd on the ladder. They've beaten highly rates Sydney twice (the first result a comfortable win, despite the 7 point final margin), and they lost in double overtime in Perth after "questionable" reffing and a late game injury to Goulding who had been red hot.

But on the other hand, there are some question marks.



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paul  
Last year

Agree, McCarron should be playing more in the guard spots, they were fine with Goulding out and him there.

Reply #722014 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Imo vickerman stays with his starters plus McCarron far to long, the bench guys never get a chance to get rolling, plus he seems to sub three at a time instead of more suttle subs so the whole balance doesn't go out the window, so he’s playing six for around 30 minutes plus Pledger for 15ish minutes and the rest get what’s left. Yesterday in the second half he went with starters and McCarron till about a minute from time. As post above thought Moller was concussed, Barlow Kennedy Goulding have had a few so so games and McCarron not his normal either, and they haven’t got it done but no changes.

Reply #722016 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I think there is a few things going wrong with United. Sending McCarron to the bench seems to be losing him and I thought they had better balance with him starting and Goulding coming off the bench. I know he's had injuries but I genuinely think Goulding is starting to decline now.

They made a mistake signing Kennedy over Patterson and I think they've doubled down on that mistake by sticking with him for too long. It was quite obvious early on he was never going to be a star in this league certainly not in Prather's league and along with Wesley's departure needed an import at that spot they could give the ball to to get them out of trouble when things break down.

Boone looks just about done. Like Goulding I know he's had injuries but his seem like the typical lingering injuries that usually plague big men towards the end of their careers. He's only just turned 34 but it seems like his body is breaking down and probably can't be replaced until after the season.

Pledger hasn't really come on as well as they would've hoped and Tohi appears to have entered a witness protection program all compounding the loss of Wesley.

Reply #722020 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

Agree with McCarron starting, Goulding needs to be happy playing the Steindl role. His whingeing and carry-on for every foul call against him is ridiculous too.

Reply #722022 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I'm not disputing Prather was a very good player but he played only about six matches last season and the grand final series, Melbourne were struggling already when Prather went down, its after his injury that Melbourne went on that run, first with Moller staring and then Felix and Moller shared the starting spot a bit. With Kennedy Goulding and McCarron all sharing the three spot Moller is getting a little bit of four and three spots but very reduced minutes since Goulding came back from his injury. To many players of the same ilk. Barlow getting thirty plus minutes in the four which is also probably starting to catch up with him. Hooley the same at the one- two, McCarron or Goulding slip up to the three to get him time.

It’s a team balance issue.

Reply #722024 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

Meh, they had a bad game, it happens.
Prior to Bogut, Boone was probably the most dominant big in the League. But yes, he tires. Getting Pledge into back him up was a smart move, but with only 12 minutes have to assume Boone is playing injured.

They haven't really replaced Wesley, and that was always a risk. Barlow has done an incredible job so far, but he had an off night.

Kennedy I'm sure we'd all agree is no Felix or Prather, but he's been good, just another with an off game.

Flopking, as I've said many times, can be a game-changer when he's hot, and a liability when he's not. They need McCarron to step up when CG is cold, and on this occasion he couldn't.

It's their lack of depth that killed them.
Hooley should be a DP. The two big lumps should be wiping the court or selling merchandise. It seems they have gambled on a bevy of young talent, and it hasn't come off. Yet.
If those young turks can come good, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

Reply #722063 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

Vickerman doesn't have a lot of faith in his bench at the moment, needs to find some line-ups he can get production out of them in.

Reply #722075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Goulding continues to drink his own bath water. I reckon he spends most of the week listening to replays of Dwayne Russell banging on about how good he is.
Guy is a massive liability defensively.

Reply #722076 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Barlow had a well documented stellar start to the season, but the last couple of games haven't been so great.

If his struggles continue, it may be useful bringing him off the bench and hoping for the type of bench impact he had in the GF.

Bring Moller into the starting 5, where his energy and athleticism can be a great foil for opposing 3 men. This will give Kennedy an opportunity to shine, since Moller is an even lower usage player than Barlow. Last season Moller’s big minutes after Prather’s injury played a key role in turning United’s season around.

Ware/Goulding/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

Another option could be combining the above with McCarron coming in for CG, giving a starting 5 of:

Ware/McCarron/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

I’d also like to see a bit of this, when Casper’s off the court:

McCarron/Goulding/Moller/Kennedy/Boone

CG and Moller are both signed for next season, and McCarron’s got 2 years left. Let’s try to get them developing some chemistry. It’d also help Vickerman work out what type of players we need to complement them for next season.

I’m sure Vickerman’s trying all sorts of things on the practice court, but sometimes it pays to throw people in the deep end in a game scenario- you never know what might happen.

Reply #722086 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Another option worth trying again is Barlow at the 5.

In the first Sydney matchup, it worked a treat as Bogut unsuccessfully tried to defend Barlow at one end, while Bogut was unable to make use of his size advantage at the other.

Plenty of teams are playing at least occasional small ball, so in those instances this allows United to fight fire with fire. And as with the Bogut example, sometimes it could be used to create favourable mismatches- plenty of 5's would struggle to defend Barlow with his range and newly re-discovered ability to attack the hoop off the dribble. Vickerman could combine this line up with disruptive defensive schemes aimed at stopping teams from isolating the opposing big against Barlow down low.

In the Sydney game, Gaze just didn't run any low post plays. Bogut tried a pick and roll or two but that was it. Generally he was ineffective when Barlow was defending him. In a different scenario the opposing coach might try to go straight for the low post iso. In that case, Vickerman would need to be implementing something disruptive up the floor to avoid that scenario. Double teaming the point then going into switching D, or a press of some sort, or maybe a zone D which allows easier double teams of the post. Etc etc.

Reply #722096 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

I feel McCarron's growth has been stunted by going to United. He should've gone to Europe like he had planned, then been another signing for the new SE Melbourne team.

Reply #722097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

@LV

Like your thinking on the team, I'm and many other fans think Moller should be starting, him and Kennedy very interchangeable in the three- four as well. Barlow is a gun, let him rest a bit over the next few games and freshen up. Barlow, Moller and Kennedy should rotate through the three four onl, leave McCarron and Goulding as guards.

Moller contract next year I believe is an option both ways I believe so no garuentee.

Reply #722105 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last year

In some past thread, someone showed stats for the best points production for the various combinations.

Does anyone have something like this to prove or disprove which combinations work?

Reply #722143 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

Sorry, I just can't envisage a situation in which you'd want Kennedy at the 4? That's arguably their thinnest spot, and I think they have been hoping tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee would step up, but that hasn't happened. Yet.
Is there anyone bumming around they can grab?

Big fan of Boone, but if he's being dudded by injury, they need to cut him lose, and grab an import than can play 30 minutes.

Reply #722208 | Report this post




 

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