Perth might be out of form, but getting a few crucial calls going their way will help.

This should be super close.

Not without justification, considering what happened the last time United were over here.
I'm tipping that the refs won't be a big factor in today's outcome though.

Perth win = ref's love wildcats! Lose = streak over should've got 3rd import. Take your pick.

Since returning from the injury he suffering against Perth on 27th October, CG is shooting at 36.2% from the field and 33.8% from three.

He's shooting career low percentages (or very close to it) this season.

And interestingly, CG started this season scoring over 20 in 3 of the first 4 games, culminating in that brilliant performance in Perth before getting injured.

He hasn't yet scored 20 points again.

If he can get going down the stretch of this season, it'll go a long way towards delivering United the back-to-back championship trophy.

*Bruce Buffer voice* IT'S TIME!

Cats have drawn 3 fouls early. All have been there = refs love wildcats

United look terrible.

WTF?

Cotton gets the call without even flopping, amazing.

Perfect example of how bad NBL refs are.

This is why refs cop flack, the shocking call on goulding, and the no call on whites layup. Just call the obvious.

Ok if we can build the lead by 13 each of the next 2 quarters as well, I reckon we're < 50% likely to blow it all in the 4th.

Checks score... Perth leading.

Checks Hoops... sooking about refs.

Conclusion... There is no disturbance in the force today.

Perhaps the Wildcats have a standard clause in their player contract.

Something like, "player match payments will cease once it is no longer possible for team to compete in finals"???

I'm constantly amazed by the refs putting Cotton to the free throw line from jump shots

United has been terrible.

Everyone is talking about Perth but United isn't exactly rolling

Perfect example of Perth cooking there- Kennedy drives to hoop, Norton slides across making contact... no call. Next play, Casper with minimal contact on Nortons drive.... Norton to the line

Luuuc

Your glass is half empty. Grab another full one.

No atmosphere in this game whatsoever.

Its like melb just wanna go home

A minute later...Mccarron drives to hoop, finishes through contact. No call.

Terrico is such a chucker.

Even though the margin has been reduced there is something off about Utd.

This venue seems to inspire NBL coaches to try to communicate more with refs. Gleeson has established a precedent, other don't want to be outdone.

Luuuc

Your glass is half empty. Grab another full one.

Luuuc

Your glass is half empty. Grab another full one.

Nah, just seen way too many chokes this season after good first halves.
Full ones are too expensive at RAC arena anyway.

Especially when the games are held over lunch time.

Game on.

Earlier in the season I thought Cotton was a shoe in for MVP but damn, Casper must be very close by this point.

Yikes, Moller.

Undisciplined finish to the half from Melbourne, really should've had that lead chipped down a little more with how they were playing.

And Gleeson again practicing his communication skills with the refs, in preference to coaching his team at the half time break.

Lv haven't said shit past games they have lost but now the ref's are a issue?

Refs are always an issue in Perth, especially when United are in town

Plenty of recent history backing up that statement

Having said that, United's execution and poor boxing out is the main reason they're losing at the half

Perth started well and had more energy but United is now on top- need to carry that through

Although if you do look at the refs, Perth only has 4 fouls at the half, despite on multiple occasions getting away with contact that was called on United at the other end

I'm convinced now that UTD only win games because they have the best players.... Some of the garbage Ware & CG43 Chuck up is aweful O (just a hell of a lot of time they're bailed out cause they hit garbage). They never use their guys playing in the corners, then when they do get it, it's like they MUST give it back to Casper or CG43.

*Sigh*

Never thought Id say it..but it looks lifeless at PA today. Very quiet and no real atmosphere. Interesting.

Why is Cotton off?

United with Ware/CG/McCarron/Kennedy/Boone, with Cotton off, not surprising United is making a run here

Lol how did the refs miss that travel

3 pts Perth didn't deserve

McCarron killing it

Cotton isn't 100% apparently, has injuries with thumb etc.

Perth play in slow motion..jog through their offense; half-hearted cuts, weak screens, hold onto the ball too long etc.

Correct Macdub. Go through the motions then ask Cotton to bail us out.

Lv, refs have completely swallowed the whistle, to the point Perth practically abandoned attacking the paint. Secondly, you want to talk travels and missed baskets... have u been watching uniteds feet?

Some of the things Perth do with the ball... I've never been so excited watching offence

Crackin game of NBL hoops. Tough, hard basketball.

Foul count 2;1 in favour of Perth and still only a 3 point lead.

And Goulding called for a travel on pivoting but Perth player (Norton?) throws ball to himself after stopping dribble and that's ok?

Yeah lol. Norton throws the ball to himself then CG pinged for shuffling his pivot foot

How ridiculous does the fat Cats fan with tatts sitting next to the Utd bench look. F'in LOL!

It's a team sport, but one guy sure can carry a team a long way

That iso turn around by a stone cold Goulding = what?

Cotton is one of the leading scorers but he also creates more points than any other player indirectly, where no stat is credited

Opponents scramble so hard that often Perth gets an easy score one or two passes later

Still think any Perth win masks a lot of their issues. Somewhat hollow (assuming teams can take advantage of those holes come playoffs though)

A Perth win is like getting a hot girl at school to go with you to the ball, but she's only going with you because neither of you had ball partners and you're going 'together' just for the sake of being able to attend.

Sure it's good, but you're still waking up in the morning feeling unsatisfied.

Norton didn't move his feet, so mycunderstanding is its not a travel.

David Barlooooow

Old Man Barlow!

Possession arrow with MEL.

After all these years, still hate the possession arrow rule.

MEL with 0:11 left to win the game.

Yep, bring back jump ball and 48mins.

Is United ball but I agree

Would rather see a jump ball in this situation

How did that not go in?????

Easiest shot attempt for Ware of the game.

Perth's D parted like the Red Sea yet Ware missed.

Another game ending on an intentional foul call, lovely.

NBL refs are misapplying the FIBA intentional foul rule, they are incompetent.

Wait....why did Perth get free throws but then still get the ball back?

Because of the NBL's great interpretation of the unsportsmanlike foul LV, that's why. Talk about sucking all the joy out of a game.

Still think any Perth win masks a lot of their issues.

Unsportsmanlike!!!!?????!!!???

WHAT????

I haven't seen that call made in over a month. Seriously

Intentional not making a play on the ball was the call LV

Mmm mmm it's Sunday guys, come on! A nice home cooked roast. Yum.

Perthworld,

With that being said, they can still very much win the championship. Perth is a very tough place to play too which gives them favour.

If teams like Melbourne, Sydney or Adelaide aren't going to capitalise on their limitations, they're right in the hunt.

Sure enough, Ware misses the easiest shot of his life and attention turns to the refs. Some serious clowns in here. I can remember blaming the refs for every loss when I was a teenager too. Then I grew up, realised that when watching from the crowd or on TV, I don't have anywhere near the angle the refs do. Refs have been "sh*t" since the dawn of time, it's a hard game to officiate with players trying everything to suck the refs in (Harden etc).

Delicious, Perthworld.

Perth don't even need to do anything to make people despise them. That's special right there

Yes if we finish 1st or 2nd, which is not happening due to management inaction.

Those have been USF all year and are exactly what the rule is supposed to stop, but carry on.

LV...you act like you haven't been watching NBL all season.

This call has happened to every team in every arena this season.

Lets no say the cats got home cooking for the usf, thats the rule and its crap. Can't hwlp but feel for ware, misses a bunny then fouls to stop clock because thats what you have done your whole life, insert stupid rule, ruin game. But that call was consistent with how it has been applied for all teams

LOL @ Ware

Chucks up contested threes and makes them consistently yet misses a layup where our D was non existent.

Wow wow wow.

Casper's a legend.

Perth gets called for 7 fouls for the game, and then they invent an unsportsmanlike on United to let them ice the win

If anybody wonders why I start talking about the refs before United plays in Perth- there- you have yet another answer

Having said that, the refs werent too bad today. Nothing like the October 2018 or October 2017 matchups. If Casper had hit the open layup, United has a better than 50/50 chance of winning that

Perth will still make playoffs and I reckon we're in for a great playoff series. Bring it

Homicide looks a bit deflated right now.

@LV stop being an autistic clown and read the explanations being written to you. Refs have gone overboard with the new FIBA intentional foul rule all season in every stadium because they are incompetent.

He's dreading having to wear a redhage jumper for the playoffs haha

The Perth win actually benefits me by pushing the Kings back up to #1. Still think that USF that is being consistently called is complete BS and I hope it gets looked at in the offseason. Not seeing anything like that called in any other league, FIBA or otherwise, and it consistently spoils close games.

I feel for Barlow. Hits two clutch threes in a row to make it a game again yet has Ware choke, on top of earlier enduring a cooked Boone and Gouldng's currently cooked shot. Ouch.

Spot on Angus, the USF is out of control now, dumb rule. Can't smash the refs for calling it though. Agree on the possession arrow too. I still don't understand how it is even a rule. What does it achieve?

Fair enough.

But there's no reason why they can't issue an edict and change the interpretation as of 9:15am Monday morning.

AFL does that all the time.

Ruined what could've been an epic finish (as did Casper's missed layup).

Anyway, I'm legit excited- any of the top 5 teams could still finish on top, and any could miss the playoffs. Closest season in years.

United losing two nail biters in Perth will make it all the sweeter when they beat them there in the playoffs ;-)

Argue bad calls, sure.
Complain about USFs that have been called that way all season? That's a fail.

Paddy Sweeney go back to commentating football you idiot- signs off "Perth by 5 at the final siren"!! It's called a buzzer you amateur!

Tyrell he also called Gleeson a genius for Cotton getting an incorrect four point play.

And he signed off by mentioning Nine's Wide World of Sports when you're not supposed to mention any broadcaster on what is a generic telecast across Nine, Fox Sports, NBL TV, Sky NZ et al.

Moron!

I'll take it on all of your advice that the call is consistent with the way it's been called this season- I remember seeing some bad USFs this season but nothing that bad.

However, I've seen less NBL this year than I have for 15+ years, so I'm happy to accept that the call may have been perfectly consistent

Still, no reason the NBL can't change the interpretation tomorrow. If the biggest sporting league in the country does it all the time, there's no reason a third tier league can't.

Perth thread with over 100 replies, Cairns thread struggles to get to double figures....

But there's no reason why they can't issue an edict and change the interpretation as of 9:15am Monday morning.

AFL does that all the time

That's why nothing has been done - it's third tier. They should but I doubt it since we're 3/4 into the regular season.

Jack that was a boring blowout game early. Plus most people probably were surprised at actually having a Saturday night game for once and were blindsided.

Good game, might actually turn our season around. Still no clear favourite for the tittle.

Adelaide form team atm but still to much up and down from every team.

Perth played shit after 1qr time, still, cotton wasted and still got us over the line.

White and Wagstaff are my key to make a run and why have Jervis dnp?

But there's no reason why they can't issue an edict and change the interpretation as of 9:15am Monday morning.

AFL does that all the time

[They're also regularly criticised for it]

Yes, and that's precisely because they do it all the time.

But this is an example where the interpretation has gotten to a point that's obviously ridiculous, and in nobody's best interests. What purpose is served by calling something like that a USF?

We got lucky, and with other results over the weekend doesn't change a lot, we are still in a fight to make play offs.

Lowest foul count in Perth Wildcats history, aint that something!

Terrico didn't want his fg% to get to high, people might think he is a shooter....

@Perthworld- exactly, no broadcaster should be mentioned at all!

[and the governing body of the sport.]

On this point, are you saying that every FIBA affiliated professional comp is calling that an intentional?

Secondly, are you saying that FIBA affiliated professional competitions have zero jurisdiction regarding how rules are interpreted in their own games?

"Good game, might actually turn our season around. Still no clear favourite for the tittle."

Correct.

“Adelaide form team atm but still to much up and down from every team.”

Have to disagree there. Adelaide too unpredictable and inconsistent, just like the other 7 teams. Hence why there's no clear favourite.

I had thought that the winner would be the team that finished 1st or 2nd, with the advantage to whichever of those played Perth in semis. But now Sydney or Melbourne might stumble over the line in 1st or 2nd, and still lose to Perth in semi final series.

Bullet train looks good, but they’re still not as consistent as you’d want them to be in the lead-in to finals.

Still plenty of interest in the season, and the finals could result in any of the 4 winning the title. This is great for generating interest in the league from casual or general audiences.

Perth got out of jail. But still facing trial. One cotton injury away from doom.

Secondly, are you saying that FIBA affiliated professional competitions have zero jurisdiction regarding how rules are interpreted in their own games?

"the USF is out of control now,"

Consistently calling the same thing a USF all season qualifies as the opposite of "out of control". The onus is on the players to adapt or the calls will continue to be made when that type of foul is committed.

Failure of players to adapt to how the game has been called week-in and week-out says more about the players than the referees.

For starters, I agree with the new interpretation. But I'm not even sure it was necessary, for that call?
He reached out and grabbed the player, making not attempt to play the ball. That's often been a blatant/ unsportsmanlike in the past.

And realistically, it had no impact.

"Consistently calling the same thing a USF all season qualifies as the opposite of "out of control". The onus is on the players to adapt or the calls will continue to be made when that type of foul is committed"

Fair call, I wasn't clear enough. By saying out of control I meant the actual rule, not the application of it by the refs. My opinion is that it's ridiculous, the Ware foul at the end was a perfect example. It was applied correctly, I just think the rule stinks.

Consistently calling the same thing a USF all season qualifies as the opposite of "out of control". The onus is on the players to adapt or the calls will continue to be made when that type of foul is committed.

Failure of players to adapt to how the game has been called week-in and week-out says more about the players than the referees.

Agreed PeterJohn but it also reduces the effectiveness of the professional foul that Ware had to commit to stop the clock.

[Consistently calling the same thing a USF all season qualifies as the opposite of "out of control".]

It's still a ridiculous call, because it serves no justifiable urpose and can lead to stupid outcomes, like today.

If it's consistent with the rest of the season, that just means they've been making ridiculous calls all season.

So you could call it a fair call, but it's still a ridiculous one.

I'll take the win, but it was ugly.
Realistically got beaten for the last 3 quarters.

Jervis must be absolute in the doghouse to not even get on the court when Boone and Pledger were dominating the key. Brandt stilling struggling
White shooting his usual 20% when under pressure. What a Crab
Hire & Wagstaff weren't much good, but at least managed to knock down a couple of 3s. Steindl misses everything and gets benched.
And Norton continuing his slump.

Trev riding Cotton and Kay to victory.

It's not obvious to LV, apparently.

No, it is certainly not a ridiculous call. Can't really fathom how you can say that?
That call was absolutely perfect, and no question it was correct.
It's consistent, it's perfectly inline with the current interpretation, and it did exactly what it was supposed to.

If you like to see games degenerate into freethrow shootouts, that's your opinion and your prerogative. You're welcome to say that you like to watch that kind of "tactical" ending.
But the rule has been changed to negate those, so don't bitch about the call.

I'll say it again, I haven't seen that call being made in a over a month. I didn't actually see the foul, but I've seen players not play at the ball and be lazy with their late-game fouls with no USF

The USF rule is a joke. Everyone hates it. Probably wouldn't mind so much but it's not called consistantly. There were heaps in last weeks cairns vs utd game that weren't called in OT. It just spoils the end of a game

Another positive contribution from anon... yoir personal vendetta is just sad.

More importantly, this interpretation has to, almost by definition result in outcomes that are counter productive to close basketball games and smart competition between athletes

Players will only deliberately commit a foul when there is a competitive reason for doing so- (for example when you're one point down and trying to stop the clock!)

So, trust the professionals. Trust the players. If there's absolutely no chance anyone gets hurt, and if a semi reasonable attempt somewhere near the ball is made, then there is absolutely no reason to penalise the defending team with extra free throws

The exception could be in cases where the opposite is occuring, the foul a Shaq type scenario (ie not even near the ball). But if they want to stop that and/or outlaw fouls on the opposite side of court from the ball, then allow referee discretion in that regard

But any ref with more than 3 brain cells knows today's call was not going to result in injury and was counter productive to a competitive finish

Nobody said it was going to result in injury. The rule isn't about injury.

The rule is about preventing "professional" fouls. The exact thing that happened.

It's a weird rule when you look at the intent of the player.

The player wants to foul. Regardless of anything he wants to foul, and he is going to foul. So the rule dictates that players make it look like they aren't trying to foul when in fact they are. It doesn't change anything.

The rule should not apply to late-game situations. It is completely different to stopping a fastbreak. It's honestly a farce

One would almost be forgiven for thinking LV is just up in arms because it was United and they lost. I would be pissed too if my team lost on a missed lay up but it's not the refs fault Ware had a shocker.

I will say though as no fan of Ware and as someone that got on him for his poor start to the season he would be my pick for MVP right now. He has really carried that team over the last 2/3 of the season and I think now deserves to win it ahead of Bogut. Barlow would be my pick for Most Improved winner too.

It simply comes down to Fiba asking themselves 'do you want to fuck potential end-of-game excitement or not?'.

They have made plenty of changes simply to make the product more attractive to the audience, this should be another of those changes

Exactly, it's not like we didn't have plenty of fans in past seasons complaining about the number of free-throws dragging games out.

That has nothing to do with 'free throw contests'.

The only difference between a player playing at the ball (a regular foul) and hacking for a quick foul (USF) is the second or so it takes for the defender to get himself in a position to theoretically reach the ball. That's the only difference it would make. Why not eliminate potential ref cock-ups and make the rule easy to follow and one that opens up a better finish to games?

Allow referee discretion.

Or perhaps put a time limit on it.

Eg if shot clock is no longer relevant, have a different rule

There must be a solution, because today's anti climactic ending was not in anyone's interests

This is basketball. Don't forget, we follow a sport which is known for close finishes. If we stuff up the way close finishes are played out then we're doing something crucially, horrendously wrong

Perth got out of jail. But still facing trial.

Spot on with your last comment, LV

Except allowing referee discretion is bad

Interesting that the USF rule is being mentioned with regards to "exciting finishes", yet no mention of the utterly moronic possession arrow.

Yeah, let's reward a defender for making a great play by.....giving it straight back to his opponent! At least a jump ball throws in more possibilities. I am still struggling to understand a single thing that it brings to the game. I don't like the USF foul, but I can see why some would think it's a good idea.

By taking away the USF in this instance, you remove referee discretion.

The rule does its job when refs are consistent. They haven't been with this call.

Whether someone plays at the ball a sufficient amount for no USF to be called involved referee discretion. Seldom do players truly play at the ball when late-game fouling

There was no grabbing, he just reached out with two hands and made enough contact to get a foul.

It's baffling the approach that so many of you are taking.

We need to ask the right questions.

The question is NOT "Is this call fair, correct and consistent given current interpretstions?".

Look at this from the top down instead. Look at the outcomes. Consider the end goals of professional sporting leagues. Was that an exciting finish today? Are the rules facilitating an entertaining product? Yes or no? Why/why not?

Was that an exciting finish today?

Of course Casper is at fault, Koberulz, but to LV's point, that's not the right questions to ask in the discussion we're having. We're talking big picture, concept.

Pretty sure people think, 'Oh well the rule is pretty black and white, I'd theoretically make the right decision every time so I'm sure referees will make the right decision every time'... until they don't. Then we're having this discussion yet again

And yeah, as I said during the game, possession arrow is crap. Jump ball would've been better in that scenario

[Is that the fault of the rule, or is that the fault of Casper Ware breaking the rule? ]

As Manu has pointed out multiple times, there are limited options for the losing team in situations like this. Often fouling makes the most sense. So, players will look to foul. The only remaining questions are how long it'll take them to commit a legitimate (looking) foul, and what complexities in the rules exist surrounding that opportunity to foul.

And the lines can be blurred between steal and foul. Because they're the only two options for the losing team.

You're right, anon, in all respects. Wasn't deliberately blurring lines, just only half paying attention.

But it's separate to my argument

Oh FFS.
MF & LV, why don't you get a fucking room. You are both full of shit and you know it.
Everybody knows that the Call was completely correct and in any event made no difference to the outcome. You're just pissed because Melbourne lost and Perth won, so you have dominated this thread with your infantile trolling.
You're wrong, its that simple, and it doesn't matter how many times you repeat the same thing over and over, you're still going to be wrong.

Maybe you should instead be asking why Ware fails under pressure every time?

No AD, you're wrong!!!! It's that simple!

This is why......

......

........


*Crickets chirping*

Haha Christ, AD.

Well done mate. Now go to bed

LV seems like the kind of guy would would get caught for speeding and rushes to the speed limit sign and scream at it for not being 10kms more.

LV said...
[blockquote]Allow referee discretion.[/blockquote]

Manu said...
[blockquote] Spot on with your last comment, LV[/blockquote]

Then in his nextg post...Manu said
[blockquote]Except allowing referee discretion is bad [/blockquote]

So Manu you either didn't read any of LV's post from the first sentence, or you are mentally challenged.

Which is it?

Clue : Those options are not mutually exclusive.

I've reported ya, Lovebroker. Hopefully your vitriolic days are numbered.

Have a good night mate

"Yeah, let's reward a defender for making a great play by.....giving it straight back to his opponent! At least a jump ball throws in more possibilities. I am still struggling to understand a single thing that it brings to the game."

It brings fairness. It is not more exciting than a jump ball, but it is fair.

A jump ball occurs when there's a 50-50 lock-up of the ball right? So the possession arrow distributes the ball in a 50-50 manner. If a point guard is able to lock-up the ball evenly with a centre, why should the taller guy have the advantage of being able to get possession via a jump ball? It's not as exciting, but it's logical.

Nothing egregious in isolation, but an accumulation of sniping over a long time. Sniping without any hint of meaningful contribution to the discussion. I attempted to call a truce in another thread but in response all Lovebroker did was continue to snipe.

Admins, I should have included that as a reason when submitting report. There it is

And Lovebroker's sniping is a bit extra. A bit over the top compared with anyone else I've seen on this site

Pot....meet Kettle.

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/44437-adelaide-v-illawarra-dec-9/#p721521

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/44437-adelaide-v-illawarra-dec-9/#p721597

First one is nothing and the second one I apologised for pretty much immediately after. That was over the top.

I have recently said on this site that my goal had been to ignite a bit of fun banter, but it hasn't turned out that way. People just get bitter. So I've stopped being an agitator, if you've noticed.

But with you, Lovebroker, it's relentless. You should want to calm yourself down.

That's all I have to say mate

First one is nothing

I apologised for pretty much immediately after.

Grow up, the both of you.

Wow this thread turned to shit.

Wow, all the characters have come out tonight to play.

Its just Fieldel ( a known troll) and Lovebroker who normally seems OK when not clashing with Fieldel.

Only 2, wouldn't say a lot of characters.

I'll just ignore Lovebroker in future like I do anons.

If the target of vitriol has a poor approval rating then that makes the jabs completely okay. Very sad. Playground behaviour. Thought I could call him out on it but never mind.

Back to the actual topic, it baffles me as to why taking judgement (subjectivity) away from a ref is seen as a bad thing. It is a good thing, because refs cannot be trusted. I suspect people are looking at who's saying it rather than what is being said

Who is saying it, meaning LV and myself. Both of whom have poor approval ratings. However, I think we have a very strong argument

I get that in the heat of the moment someone can instinctively revert back to an old habit. That doesn't make the rule wrong though.
Basketball is a difficult sport to ref, so things that make it clearer will generally get a tick from me. This included. I think the rule teak has done a pretty good job at cleaning up the game this season.

It's a great rule without question, just not in the late-game intentional fouling situation

I don't see why that scenario should change the rule. If you can make a play on the ball then just do that. If you aren't in a position to do so then you've been out-foxed / out-worked by your opponent. If you are in a position to do so but opt not to, then that's your own fault.
I get that it is a fundamental change to the game, but surely it is a good one. Grabbing a player is in no way a basketball play, even though somehow over time it has become an accepted one and people are now used to that.

For all those talking about the USF call, it was the right call as interpreted all season, some may not like it, but them's the rules. When Ware blew by Martin for the open layup, Martin could've grabbed him then, but he knew that it would be called an USF, he even said that in the interview. Basketball IQ.

Loved how sheepish and lost for words Homicide was during the final commentary. Of course he doesn't say anything bagging out the Cats till he's on social media. Fake scum.

Wow MF you don't like personal attacks but are happy to play along with them when directed at others... theres a word for that.

Jervis is terrible, guy is a mountain and decides to miss point blank lay ups non stop, dunk it you lanky prick! But yeah, he's not good...at all. Brandt needs his minutes upped too, happy to play Vague, but not at the 5 ffs.

Yeah, he has really struggled this season. I was still surprised he wasn't at least given a chance yesterday though. Vague trying to guard Pledger was scaring the hell out of me. Having said that, it's still not a matchup we would have won by using Jervis instead, and at least going with mobile guys like Kay or Vague gives us the potential to exploit the mismatch at the other end.
Tommy is clearly deep in the doghouse right now. He must have eaten all Trevor's chocolate cake.

He must have eaten all Trevor's chocolate cake.

So what is the reaction going to be on the off chance Perth actually play well and win?

my betting account will take a big hit so my reaction will be shock and sadness at having to have 2 minute noodles for tea tonight

For those who were claiming the call on Casper is consistent with this year's NBL, why weren't Abercrombie (17 secs left in OT) and Weeks (10 secs left in OT) called for the same thing the next day?

Both had an intent to foul.

Not sure about Abercrombie but Weeks certainly made no attempt at the ball. I went back and watched it again

Abercrombie's opponent was facing him, so a little different, but he ran at the opponent at speed. You could argue he at least made an attempt at the ball though.

Weeks on the other hand, just made contact from behind with an opponent facing the other way

Weeks and Abercrombie both had defensive position. Ware didn't.

I think this is part of the issue people have with the points made regarding allowing it to be at the refs discretion.

The call has been relatively consistent*

*As consistent as our refs are capable of making any call

It's a pretty black and white call. Which is what we want, it doesn't leave room for interpretation. So the question is this. Will our refs still screw that up?

Of course they will...

Over the course of the season they have called it pretty well. Have they made mistakes?

Of course they have...

The weeks call was wrong. And so have others been. The ware call wasn't wrong

If you think Weeks had 'defensive position' then I'd like you to find a definition for it. Weeks simply hugged Newbill from behind

People make mistakes and are inconsistent, it's human nature.

Well put, Flop. People can't possibly think that favouring judgement over black-and-white calls is better for the game in this instance.

What'd I say above, people think 'the rule is easy to follow. The refs will get it right'... until they don't. And it only takes once for it to come into question. It happened numerous times in one round

What'd I say above, people think 'the rule is easy to follow. The refs will get it right'... until they don't. And it only takes once for it to come into question. It happened numerous times in one round


I don't have an issue when people get upset when a bad call is made, especially when it potentially influences a result. What I find odd is that people only get upset when a howler is made in the last two mins of a game.

The amount of times I have lost my shit (and my multi) because several shockers are made in a row early in a game on one end of the court and not the other. Those situations often affect the result more than the bad calls made at the end of game.

You can see teams get deflated/angry/confused when only one team is allowed to play a certain way.

Our refs are not great. But they are what we have... Unfortunately.

And yes for those who don't know yet. I'm a Perth tragic. I know we get those calls from time to time. But so do others. My argument isn't about who's gaining the most from these bad calls.

I'll be happy to write up a more detailed analysis (if requested... Likely won't happen for a while. Will need a heap of revision time) but it will be a waste of time as it's more a reflection on refs having bad nights+crowd influence+ game/team importance.

These things should all be non-existent... But they are not... In every sport they all happen very frequently. And I could add plenty more. But cbf

If you think Weeks had 'defensive position' then I'd like you to find a definition for it. Weeks simply hugged Newbill from behind

In layman's terms, to commit a foul late-game you need to be between your man and your defensive basket, then you are considered in defensive position.

Flop Warning, you wrote this in your post: "I don't have an issue when people get upset when a bad call is made, especially when it potentially influences a result. What I find odd is that people only get upset when a howler is made in the last two mins of a game.". I am with you on this, but I saw a discussion on ESPN's First Take, this morn regarding an NFL game and when should they use play-backs to get the "right" calls. All game for every call, right down to last few minutes only. Stephen A (not a fan of his!) made the point that late in the game was fine as there is less time for adjustments and to make up for what you lose with the bad call.

Also, there's always the chance of a bad call going your way, later on, given time in the game.

Late in the game, extreme case, last couple of secs, a bad call on your stud, his 5th PF. he's out of the game, wrongly, in crunch time, and you're a point down. They get the ball. Now that matters a lot more than the same stud getting that same bad call earlier.

Not a perfect outlook but has sense.
(I know we are not talking replays here but thought influence-on-outcome re last few minutes of game time is relevant.)

Fair enough.

But having legal guarding position is completely separate to whether someone plays at the ball. I've seen guys swoop in from the side and almost hip check the ball handler, but stick out an arm toward the ball and it be called as a regular foul.

So does the rule say players must be both in legal guarding position and play at the ball, or something different?