I'm surprised to see Creek and Motum miss out
But, to all the knockers of these selections, who would you drop out? How good is Xavier Cooks? Is he worth putting ahead of those two?
Seems to me perhaps the absences of Simmons and Exum have opened the door for a few NBL guards, where as the Boomers were spoiled for options at forward.
Delly and Mills have a good history of performing for the Boomers, so I'm not too worried about this weaker depth.
"Why is Motum considered a lock?"
Have you actually watched a fair few of Motum's games in Europe over the past years? He has been one of our best there and consistently too. Great understanding of the European game, can shoot if from three. Has experience in big games, including recent Boomers campaigns. Why would you not select him?
Wow, this is strange. Creek was a lock for mine. So too Motum.
Gliddon? What? Creek over him every time.
I'd have Motum over one of Kay or Landale too.
Sobey isn't an awful choice, given our lack of depth at guard, but no way you need him AND Gliddon. Crazy!
Sobey AND Gliddon wow, surprised Caddee didn'tmake it.
No creek wow. No Adel surprising but I'm not shocked. Goulding in not too surprising, Cooks in a bit surprising.
I like the Kay over Motum pick. Shows you can work hard and make a real impression at camp and earn your spot. Excited to see what kay can do on the world stage.
I do overall like the team but gees Creek is a big snub.
It's easy for us as fans who are not charged with creating a play style for a team to say who should and shouldn't be there. But as Lemanis says in the press conference, it's not about having an All Star team, but a team that works well together.
Obviously certain guys were obvious locks - Delly, Mills, Ingles, Bolden, Baynes, Bogut - and around that, they needed to fit pieces that complimented the core well. Shooting was an absolute necessity, so someone like a Gliddon gets a nod. TWe have sweet FA point guard options, so Sobey gets through on that (I am not a firm believer in the Bullets bias. Lemanis goes for the best possible Aussies for the Boomers so it should surprise no one that they also end up on the Boomers).
I am as surprised as anyone that Creek didn't make the cut. I don't think Lemanis went out of his way to make retarded and baffling selections. But obviously his skill sets didn't mesh with what they were running with the main guys.
One thing I am glad for is there are no sacred cows. Having NBA experience doesn't mean you're automatically selected. As much as the selections are surprising, they're obviously done with the best possible result in mind. It would not have been easy to make those selections, but they made them for what they believed to be the good of the team.
In a lot of ways, this team mirrors the team for Rio. Newley's ommission is similar to Creek's. They have a lot of point guards and a glut of interchangeable forwards. It worked fine in Rio and I am not counting it out from working fine in China.
It's an interesting line up, and we can debate the merits of the selections until the cows come home, but all that matters is how they play together, and I think they're going to do well.
I haven't seen enough of Landale, Cooks and Bolden to really have a firm view on the overall team
But I do understand what ME is saying above. It's more about how the pieces fit together. The starting 5 have all been through many major tournaments together, and are a proven group in international basketball, so we just need the right role players around them.
Broekhoff's shooting will be missed- I suspect that's why Goulding and Gliddon got the nod. Is Cooks a good 3 point shooter? You may find this is something to do with why Creek missed out. Kay is more of a natural 4 than Creek, think the role Bairstow played in Rio.
Maybe Kay, Gliddon etc are just better fits within Lemanis' system.
Despite these selections and despite missing Maker, Broekhoff, Simmons, Exum- I think this team has a strong chance of going real far, led by the experienced starting 5
re: creek Wonder if him bailing on his mates during the playoffs last year for a 10 day contract with the Timberwolves affected the decision to leave him off. Probably cost them a championship and the bonus money that comes with it. Basketball Gods have a long memory.
Again on one cares about the world cup when it comes to basketball.
Team is solid but they are looking to Olympics with this team, creek def be in Olympics.
My issue is if they tank would u still keep lemanis knowing its medal or bust for Olympics??
Why not try out fringe players cooks landale etc now then have them get killed at a tournament that matters
I'm happy to talk about the things I've heard.
One, I hear Creek couldn't learn the system yet was being domineering, enforcing himself as a leader when he himself wasn't performing well, this put some leadership noses out of joint (in coaching and the team).
He then missed a team dinner the night before selection to get a tattoo. This also annoyed some people. It's not the way someone would act if they knew they were in the battle for selection. He was acting like the team 'needed' him. He was basically acting like Ben Simmons because he's had a few 10 day NBA contracts. This also factored in.
Creek did not have a very good camp at all.
Is that a bit of revisionist history Chinese whispers ME, or do you have it on good authority?
Wouldn't generally be that kind of player/ guy. The tattoo thing may be true as I saw that on insta, but he's generally got 0 ego at all (I've even spoken to him earlier this year and he was amazingly down to earth), and is pretty good with systems and playing within them.....
"s that a bit of revisionist history Chinese whispers ME, or do you have it on good authority? "
Good authority. Apparently he came in with a bit of a bee in his bonnet and the stalwarts of the team didn't appreciate being dictated to by someone who wasn't even playing well.
As for his ego, or lackthereof, I can't say in general terms. But maybe missing out on the Timberwolves put him in a funny spot mentally so he tried to 'take over' the Boomers camp but failed?
Either way, Mitch wasn't ommitted on his talent. He was ommitted on how he conducted himself at camp.
Training camp went for what....all of 2 days? Monday and Tuesday?
If so, I'd be surprised if all that much weight was put on it.
Why was there such a rush to pick the team? Warm up games start in about a week and a half? The last 2 weeks of August? Then WC 31 Aug - 15 Sep? So why are they picking the team after 2 days? Don't they want the other guys to hang around a few more days and learn the system- might help for future years?
Apparently we needed shooters and that's on Lemanis and the group. Clearly players recent history doesn't play a part, we saw that with Rio.
This past NBL season
Blanchfield: 48% FG, 41% 3PT
LISCH: 44% FG, 39% 3PT
GLIDDON: 43% FG, 39% 3PT
MACCA: 47% FG, 38% 3PT
GOULDING: 41% FG, 36% 3PT
SOBEY: 46% FG, 33% 3PT
That's not taking into account the other skills each player posesses of course. Again, Gliddon apparently shot the piss out of it and Lemanis clearly goes of camp performance.
'Nba talent that can't play as team. Lemanis picks team guys, not everyone can make it'
How's this worked out so far ? Dont 'know all' but what i do know
- we failed at Worlds 2014 after the 'tanking' debacle to get an 'easier' 2nd round game we couldn't win, EOG play v Turkey that failed to get up a shot
- we missed medal in Rio with the shocking Serbia semi-final performance and EOG play v Spain that failed to get up a shot (again)
- the ugly brawl debacle Phillipines, darkest day in Boomers history
- can't engage our best player to actually play for the team
I love Lemanis and his gritty, team approach and I do hope he proves me wrong in a few weeks, but if not, perhaps we need to try something different for 2020 before our medal window with this group slams shut.
"I love Lemanis and his gritty, team approach"
It's hardly a gritty approach, offensively they've got some of the most fluent action of any national team.
"EOG play v Spain that failed to get up a shot"
Because Rubio got a hand in and Andersen didn't have great ball security. DA hands onto that ball and Mills shoots a lay-up to win it.
Adel doesn't no what team play is, can’t follow structures, ok he has had a run in the nba but stats were poor and team was crap. Coaches have to pick who they want, Lemanis has got a fourth at Olympic, was robbed off bronze. Good luck to all who made it and those that helped get us this far.
Maybe Creek should've signed with Brisbane. No disrespect to Cam Gliddon but it’s a joke he’s in before Creek.
Mitch Creek has the biggest heart and would be the soul of the Boomers. He plays harder than anyone on that roster except for maybe Delly.
We don't need Brisbane conspiracies to explain a lot of this. We only have 4 warm-up games. Lemanis has a successful system in place and just needs replacement parts off the bench to complement the experienced core.
A lot of this makes sense to me, if we go by the balance of the team in Rio.
- Bolden takes Andersen's stretch 4 role
- Kay in for Bairstow is reasonable
- Sobey in for Lisch as a defensive combo guard that can shoot
- Goulding maintains his spot as a pure scorer and shooter at shooting guard
- Gliddon is the next best option behind Broekhoff as a 3-and-D guy
- Lemanis has gone with an extra big as 12th man instead of a defensive specialist guard (Martin in 2016). This may be wise insurance at the 5. It also gives us a bit more versatility if one of our newbie 4s struggles.
I was initially surprised that Motum missed out, but then I haven't seen much of Cooks nor Landale. Pick N Roll's article on Australia's best European-based players put both Landale and Cooks above Motum.
I must have been one of the only people who suggested omitting Creek and Adel, but I must admit that was when I thought Simmons was playing, so this is still a surprise. I expected Creek to take Martin's position, but an extra big also makes sense.
I like this team, similar bench talent than Rio, but it's a bit thin on experience on the bench. In Rio we had more experience off the bench. Veterans Andersen, Martin, Lisch, plus Broekhoff has been a core player in major tournaments. We need shooters to step up to replace the Broekhoff void and a 4-man to take over Andersen's role (who played the most minutes at 4).
It will be interesting to see what the newbies -- Cooks, Landale, Bolden -- can provide and if NBLers Gliddon and Sobey can step into the team at this level.
A bit sick of hearing about this "Bullets bias". Lemanis goes out of his way to get, what he believes to be, the best Australians to his team. So it stands to reason some make the Boomers. And in the end, there are two Bullets for the Boomers. TWO. How many Kings did Goorjian used to have for his Boomers? Way more than two that's for sure.
There is a lot of delusion going on here
'A million times in a basketball game someone hammers someone to make a point'. Not with an overly escalating two handed punch to the head that further provoked the situation. Don't see that everyday. Remember, that was from a guy in a yellow singlet in a team coached by AL.
'offensively they've got some of the most fluent action of any national team'. Youtube the EOG plays v Turkey and Spain. Fluent? They are a mess.
"Because Rubio got a hand in and Andersen didn't have great ball security. DA hands onto that ball and Mills shoots a lay-up to win it". Yeah right, but he didnt. 2014 Turkey needed a score, coach calls play, team executes, they score and win. 2016 Spain needed a score, coach calls play, team executes, they get a score and win. We need a score x2, coach calls play x2, its an abomination x2, we lose. 2018? 2020?
'Lemanis has a successful system in place'. Really ? Is Round of 16 and 4th success ? This is the core of the problem.
You are happy with a 'solid performance'. This group should medal.
88 6'0 P.Mills CG
92 6'1 B.Cotton CG
90 6'4 M.Dellavedova PG
95 6'6 D.Exum CG
90 6'7 R.Broekhoff SF
87 6'8 J.Ingles G/F
95 6’8 X.Cooks CF
96 6'10 B.Simmons PG
96 6'10 J.Bolden PF
86 6'10 A.Baynes C
84 7'0 A.Bogut C
97 7'1 T.Maker PF/C
98 6'5 W.Mcdowell-white PG
92 6'3 M.Mccarron CG
90 6'4 N.Sobey CG
92 6’5 M.Creek SF
89 6’6 C.Gliddon G/F
00 6'6 J.Green G/F
97 6’7 D.Adel SF
92 6’9 N.Kay PF
90 6'10 B.Motum PF
95 6'11 J.Landale C
98 7'0 I.Humphries C
Referencing EOG (end of game) scenarios with the Boomers is interesting since the Bullets had numerous fails in this department as well. Lemanis is all about holding the lead as passively as possible even five minutes out from full time. Worrying trend.
Geez, if that stuff is true about Creek then that's fair enough, he's been a bonehead in the past too. Still NBL Coach/Boomers coach bias and it's been going on for ages, the national team would prob be better off being coached by someone who doesn't coach an NBL team.
Beyond these 10 teams, there should be few challenges.
"A bit sick of hearing about this "Bullets bias"
It's not so much as case of bias towards the bullets, as it is Lemanis bringing his personal project players under his wing in Brisbane.
First it was Spuddee, who should never have been made the starting PG at Brissy, and then God Help Us is promoted to the Boomers Squad.
Then you have Sobey, who's not even good enough to be a PG at NBL level, now being named as the backup for the Boomers. And its not like people didn't call it the instant his (otherwise unfathomable) move to Brissy was announced.
As for saying "oh there's only two"
There are only 5 NBL players in the team, 1 each from the top 3 teams, and 2 from a team that won't make the finals this season.
Naming Goulding, Sobey, and Gliddon in the same team is questionable.
But we are missing Exum and Broekhoff. And, as was predicted by many before the team was announced, Lemanis prefers to go with an extra Guard or Wing.
Creek was and will be the best Local SF in the NBL. Personally I would have liked to see him selected ahead of one of the above three, but as mentioned that's not the coach's preferred balance.
So who would you drop to bring him in??
Certainly not Ingles. Cooks is the future, and possibly impressed more at the camp.
As was discussed in the earlier thread, Kay over Motum is a massive call.
But its not necessarily wrong just because Motum plays Europe.
Clearly Kay impressed at camp, and earnt his spot.
Londale, again the future, provides the extra depth at the 5 that we would otherwise have relied on Motum for.
I don't follow the Aussies in Europe particularly closely, but in the green and gold Motum has never struck me as a guy we just can't live without. Creek's omission makes sense if the stories here are true. And when it comes to 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' selections, all coaches will go with the guys they know better or like more.
This is a kind of controversy that appeals as a Twitter controversy. On the surface it looks odd or even outrageous, but analyse in more detail and it can all be explained.
I think the backup [combo] guard spot was between McCarron and Sobey. Creek is out of the equation there. Goulding offers scoring potency in a way that nobody else, apart from Mills, can provide, so unless he was out of form, Goulding's role makes sense. Again, Creek doesn't make that spot. Gliddon offers shooting with some defense. Don't get fooled by the shooting percentages arguments, Gliddon puts up completely different 3s at a different rate than Creek. If Creek takes Gliddon's spot, we are certainly sacrificing spacing, which will flow on to less space for other shooters. Without seeing performances in camp, it's tough to conclude that Creek deserves a spot over Cooks, Kay and Landale.
Creek and Adel are unlucky, but by no means entitled to make the team. For those expecting Creek to make the team, who should be pushed out?
So if you could guess as to a big, wing and guard injury replacement if something happens to one of our players then surely...
Motum, Adel and McCarron come in...
That still wouldn't be a reprieve for Creek and let's face it, Cadee would probably come in first ahead if the three above
rjd; please stop using logic mate, those in this thread don't have a brain to understand how team balance in basketball works.
If Australia’s only 12 NBA players were all point guards they would argue that those 12 should be the team.
They will respond to your question about who should make way for Creek with one of the NBL guards or Kay, not someone who plays Creek’s position.
I can see Gliddon and Goulding over Creek - they play the 2 and Creek plays the 3.
To me it's more Cooks over Creek for the spot - Cooks must've impressed at camp to get it. He put up good numbers in Europe as a rookie.
Motum had a great Euro season - led the Turkish league in scoring but Kay is stronger and better defensively so Lemanis has gone for that.
If you were wondering if players might be rewarded for participating in the qualification games, here's how many games they played:
MADE THE TEAM
* previous tournament experience under Lemanis
DIDN'T MAKE THE TEAM
The NBA players making themselves unavailable for qualifiers make some sense because the NBA doesn't make accommodations for it in the schedule.
Were Cooks and Motum technically available to play any games? It makes me wonder if Motum's choice to not participate might be an additional reason he failed to solidify his position in the team. Notice that Landale made an effort to fly to Kazakhstan to play one of the qualification games.
Adel, Bolden and Cooks have no previous experience under Lemanis.
Would Blanchfield have been a better selection for Gliddon? A long 3 and D 12th?
And Motum is a prolific scorer and absolutely outclasses Kay in that regard but AL doesn't seem to build his offence around bigs (both Boomers and Brisbane) so it makes sense he would pick a more all rounded defensive big in Kay. If Motum was really a shot we probably would have seen more DJ in the qualifiers. They are similar offensive minded bigs with appalling defence.
Reading so much garbage here. You have two Brisbane Bullets here - TWO! And they just so happen to be the best available Aussie combo guards, because Lemanis is the only coach to go for starting Aussie point guards in the whole NBL. Quit sounding like a bunch of morons, would ya? If Broekhoff and Simmons were in I highly doubt either would have made it, but the team have chosen two extra guards because we don't have a back up point guard good enough to put much pressure on them.
Thanks Yolo finally someone making sense. If w are to have any chance the point minutes will be split between Delly, Mills and Ingles. We'll only see glimpses of Sobey and Gliddon if there is foul trouble, injury and when we are down by 30 to the USA in the quarterfinals
Just another poster
I can understand the Kay over Motum and Cooks over Creek decisions, even though I might disagree somewhat, those at least make some sort of sense. The Gliddon over Adel is simply insane, whoever commented on finding a combo guard to replace him I would argue once you have selected Sobey and Goulding you have your backup guards so really positions 11 and 12 should be less about positional depth than just picking the best players you have and Adel is just simply a better player. Faster, more athletic, can create his own shot, plays well in transition etc.
Worth pointing out there are 5 Nbl players on this squad, that's nearly half the team. I remember after the last Olympics everyone commented that would be possibly be the last time an NBL player plays in a major tournament, nope now we have more. I don't mean to bag on the league, I think it's comparable if not to the Euroleague or Spanish ACB, then at least to say the German or French leagues and have always wanted to see our teams go up against them. Now in a way I'll sort of get to see that.
I'm okay with Creek missing out. It was clearly a close decision, but that’s the way international selections work. I don’t rate Gliddon particularly highly but if you need a guy to stand in a corner and be a threat, he’s a better option than Creek.
For mine Creek always struggles because he plays more like a 4, with the size of a 2/3. Even his slashing, while strong, is not explosive. I just think in the international game with a space and shoot approach where the 3-ball takes such a large proportion of the overall shots, Creek is not the guy you want.
Better to have a number of three point shooting options so you can find the hot guy and ride him, whether that is Gliddon, Goulding, Cooks, etc.
If Kay is better than Motum why isn't he in Europe cashing in big pay checks.
Cooks is an unknown entity to me as I haven't seen enough of him beyond the traditional You Tube clips where no one ever misses a shot.
Gliddon and Sobey are streak players and do not offer the consistency that Creek does at international level.
Creek has been guarding NBA bodies for the last 6 months while Gliddon and Sobey haven't. That alone counts for mine. Same too with Adel and Motum. Gliddon and Sobey have no serious experience at international level play.
I think 'ol AL got the tap to say he needed a few NBL'ers to help promote the League and maintain some interest in the Cup for Aussie's after we been burnt by the pull outs of the exhibition series. Wasn't it the NBL themselves pushing the 'Kay has dominated camp' right from Day 1 of camp ? I may be wrong. Can't really see any other fathomable reason.
Surely posi 12 should've been used as a development opportunity for our best u/22 prospect, maybe Green (was he available) or Froling. I can't see our no12 (Gliddon?) getting much run.
Adel can't play team, he can only create his own shot, like a lot players his own shot is not the best team shot. Kay on money that would be comparable to euro money, plus Australian season only two thirds euro season so you play elsewhere at seasons end. It’s a good balanced squad and doesn’t seem to have any Prima Donnas.
Just saw this:
Creek led the Boomers in the Asia qualifiers in minutes (24), points (14.0) and rebounds (7.7). How is this guy, the points, minutes and rebounding leader on the team NOT in the World Cup team? Outrageous!
Wait, perhaps we should check the matching +/-'s in Asia qualifiers:
Creek's +9.3 is the 2nd lowest among all 14 players to play 4 or more games.
And, wait, more Brisbane bias!
This isn't fair, though, is it? Look, Creek vs Sobey vs Gliddon, not much difference in this stat.
Let's reflect minutes too, so adapt these +/- to per 40 minutes:
This means that Kay and Sobey linups effectively won games by 30+, Gliddon lineups by 20+, and Creek lineups by a bit over 15.
And, just to check, surely that Brisbane bias is not still there:
Oh, damn. Perhaps knowing the system helps after all! Who would've thought? It might also be why Goorjian added, controversially to some, a disproportionate number of Sydney players.
In case you were wondering, in much more limited minutes, +/- per 40:
Delly +21.1 (2 games)
Landale +36.8 (1 game)
Maker +30.1 (2 games)
Former A-team Boomers:
Barlow +45.8 (2 games)
Martin +40.2 (2 games)
Jawai +45.9 (2 games)
Newley +34.1 (2 games)
Lisch +34.6 (6 games)
Despite Creek's apparent individual dominance, it didn't translate to the team performing so much better with him, at least compared with nearly all other core Asia qualifier Boomers on the team or any former A-team Boomer. There will always be someone to argue the invalidity of +/-, but is it possible that this somewhat reflects Creek's fit in the system?
For all the debate around the fringe selections (both in and out - the Creeks, Gliddons, Kay's, Motum’s, and Sobey’s etc of the world)who would be in real contention to be in a full strength squad for the 2020 Olympics? Don’t forget, we will be adding Simmons, Exum, Maker, and Brokeoff to the mix, and maybe even Josh Green - not sure there will be more than 1 or 2 spots available
For me, I think it’s Cooks - I feel he has a more rounded skill set than the other fringe players, good size, and is young enough to have upside. He’s younger (and bigger) than Creek, and more polished than Adel; that’s why I think he was picked
And when Creek did dominate in the Asian Cup it was all athleticism. He wasn't stroking jumpers etc He was getting to the rim against smaller less athletic Asian players. He was just a plodder in his NBA stints. The World Cup is a totally different beast to Asian Cup. He got left out for team chemistry. It's not hard to work out. I interestingly read Gliddon was apparently in the 12 for every coach.
"Would Blanchfield have been a better selection for Gliddon? A long 3 and D 12th?"
In the press conference Lemanis mentioned that Gliddon's role might be low minutes, missing games, but to come in and hit shots. Apparently Gliddon missed day 1 and 2 of camp, but did exactly that in days 3 and 4. A lucky hot streak at the right time?
"Delly , Mills, Ingles and Goulding all handle the ball and can switch between the 1 and 2 internationally. Ingles can go 1,2 or 3"
Absolutely true that Delly, Mills and Ingles are our best players to lead the offense. Hopefully we can go with one of them always on. My concern is that Delly, Mills, and Ingles have a high chance of starting together. Not sure that I like Goulding as the only ball handler to come off the bench. Goulding will get murdered internationally if relying on him like that. In Rio we had Lisch and even Martin had some minutes in that role ahead of Goulding. Even Lisch appeared to struggle at times handling the ball internationally.
Creek v Gliddon seems to be the biggest debate; to me it comes down to basketball IQ
I remember seeing Creek as a rookie, thought he was the best physical specimen we had in the country. And I love how passionate he is about the game. But he plays like a 4, in the body of a 2. If he went and did some time in a US college, I think it would have made a world of difference.
Gliddon, despite the fact he may not be built or move like Creek, and who would probably lost 1v1, is the more skilled basketballer. He has a great stroke, always plays calm, and rarely makes mistakes. Sneaky good athlete as well. I think the time he spent at college helped him optimise his skill set, and basketball IQ.
"If you had to pick between Creek , Gliddon and Sobey to play a game to save your life, who do you pick? "
Haven't all 3 just choked regularly in the NBL when it comes to the big crunch time games? Gliddon I feel has won games off his hot streak shooting though.
At the end of the day it's all going to come down to how well we do in the tournament. What's does everyone consider a successful tournament though? Playing for gold, playing for Bronze, making it through the group stages? What's the line between success and failure?
I don't buy the whole adel and creek are fringe nba players so they should be in the team over others that aren't.
Imagine for a second that Thon maker (a regular nba player) was available who does he replace in the current team. Bogut no, Baynes no, Bolden maybe, Landale Maybe, Kay unlikely. There is every chance he would have missed selection also.
The three guys picked filled a specific role the coaching staff needed filled, fitted into the system the best and trained the house down.
Just another poster
Yeah Maker is an automatic in, thinking otherwise is foolish.
By the way I'm not saying Adel and Motum should be in just because they play in bigger leagues. I’m looking at individual skill sets and what each player brings to the team that you don’t have elsewhere. Adel gives you speed and athleticism a guy you can bring off the bench if things are not working out who can change the game through tempo. Motum gives you experience at the 4 that you don’t have elsewhere, you have a guy who will be used to playing many of the guys they will be going up against and the inside info that comes from that. I don’t quite get the Kay inclusion over him purely on defence, Jonah is a defensive minded 4 and Landale who will possibly play some time there is no slouch in that department either so it’s not like they’re lacking strong defensive players at that spot.
In terms of expectations, given that we're missing top players, I’d be satisfied with final 8 and would be pleased with a final 4 finish. A medal would be great!
In the Olympics, with a full squad, I’d expect better: I’d expect a final 4 and be pleased with a medal. Playing for gold would be great!
The Gliddon and Sobey selections just come down to next best availability.
If Broekhoff doesn't take time off as a new father, he takes Gliddon's spot.
If Exum was not injured, he takes the backup combo guard spot.
Simmons takes the last role if he was available.
One more role to fill. Martin's disruptive guard role in Rio had no successor, unless you want to resort to McCarron or Cadee to fill it.
Came down to Cooks vs Creek vs Adel to fit a role on this team, each most capable at the 3. For whatever reason, Cooks impressed Lemanis most in camp, earning a spot in front of two other highly credentialed 3-men. Outrage over Creek or Adel's exclusion ultimately comes down to a comparison with Cooks. In the press conference, Lemanis seemed hugely impressed by Cooks, especially by his improvement. Lemanis said Cooks has consistently improved his game. He's never made any junior national teams. He's only 23, part of the Simmons-Exum-Bolden-Maker-Adel generation. It will be interesting to see what he can provide at international level in years to come.
Yeah top 8 would be a good result. Anything below that disappointing and anything above that brilliant.
In my opinion, the range of positions we could finish in this is the widest ever.
I genuinely believe that, if the team can play to their maximum potential and we catch one or two lucky breaks along the way, we could legitimately push for gold.
On the other hand, if we get off to our typical slow start, dropping the first one to Canada we could be out before the knock out games. I think this is also a realistic scenario, and one which could potentially see us out of the Olympics.
So yeah...somewhere between 1st and 17th.
Well I think top 8 should be the absolute lowest minimum requirement for competency for this team.
If we look at the road ahead, we start in group H with Canada, Lithuania and Senegal. Canada has weakened with recent departures. Lithuania should be good, but not great. I don't lose any sleep over Senegal.
We should be favoured to top the pool, or at least advance in second position.
If we top top the pool, our likely crossover is probably Germany in group G. This is a game we 'should' be expected to win. If we come second, our likely crossover is France. This is a game that would be expected to be much tighter.
A win in either of these games would put us in the top 8.
Then we crossover with the amalgamations of group E and F for a spot in the top four, those groups include Turkey, USA, Greece and Brazil as likely crossover opponents. The higher we rank in our earliest pool, the easier our first and second crossover opponent, so starting well is paramount. Turkey or Brazil should be our aims for these games.
If the Boomers take care of business early in the cup they have fairly smooth sailing into the 8, and possibly the 4.
I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if we didn't advance. Putting aside some of the poor player selections by Lemanis, over the years I've seen us get the wobbles at the big tournaments a number of times over the past say 30 years it's almost ingrained in Boomers culture at this point. Look at the '98 WC.
It's one thing to be positive and optimistic even hopeful but the Boomers have almost never failed to disappoint/underperform at the WC or Olympic.
Mixed starts in the Lemanis era. We went down to Slovenia to start 2014. We struggled in warm-up games before Rio, but started the Olympics by thrashing France.
Not sure how we should take results from the warm-up games against Canada considering we start the tournament against them. Lemanis should hold back a bit. Getting the new guys to understand their role might be the priority.
Without Exum, I can see we're short a PG, but I'm not sold Sobey is the answer. In the circumstances, I would have either evaluated experienced guys like Lisch or Martin, OR tried to pick a future star like WMW.
What stinks is that Sobey was anointed to this role, the moment he signed with Brisbane.
As for Gliddon, you could flip coins between him, McCarron,and Blanchfield IMHO. If he performed best at the camp, then so be it. My only question is that I heard he only showed up for the 2nd half? (Which would again suggest Lemanis is playing favourites.)
Personally, I question Flopking's continued inclusion.
Those still whinging about Kay, are presumably just butthurt because he plays for the Cats. By all accounts he has been the standout of the camp. If you're not going to reward that, then why bother having it and inviting 18 players???
Something else to at least consider, and I am far from being an expert on any of this, but what style of play do we expect to see tolerated by the refs at this world cup?
My point being, is it going to differ from what we would normally see in Europe? and/or might some players be better suited than others?
Eg: If you were picking a team to play in Europe, maybe you hypothetically pick say, Motum, Creek, Blanchfield and Lisch???
"What stinks is that Sobey was anointed to this role, the moment he signed with Brisbane."
Is the fact that Sobey was basically the only appropriately aged starting Aussie point guard last year lost on you?
"Anointed the role" according the whom exactly?
I still struggle with who was expected to replace him. Were we going to pick up fossils just to prove a point?
I think we should make the 16,
and could make the 8, but it will be tough as we would be up against Germany & France (plus whomever from our first group)
But I don't see us getting past the QF.
If we are 2nd in our 2nd round group, we will likely hit USA in the QF.
Why are we all so confounded by the idea that Andrej Lemanis, coach of the Boomers, might look for the same qualities in a player as Andrej Lemanis, coach of the Bullets?
If someone is good at what he needs them to do, and fits his system, they're likely to end up in both teams.
There's no conspiracy here.
"Why are we all so confounded by the idea that Andrej Lemanis, coach of the Boomers, might look for the same qualities in a player as Andrej Lemanis, coach of the Bullets?
If someone is good at what he needs them to do, and fits his system, they're likely to end up in both teams.
There's no conspiracy here."
Yep. Searches for the best available Aussies for Bullets, ergo some will also end up on the Boomers. Not seeing any surprise or conspiracy. This IS the same coach who gave Damien Martin an Olympic spot over Adam Gibson after Adam Gibson had just signed with him at the Bullets, after all.
I've got nothing against Sobey but this crap about him being "age appropriate point guard"... is baffling to me!
I recall when Delly got selected for the Boomers and I'm pretty sure he was still playing for St. Mary's and the commentary from Shane Heal was that this guy will be an absolute star for the Boomers in the future. It has been proven to be a magnificent decision as Delly is nearly first picked these days so...
Who is the next Delly coming through? I thought William McDowell White would have atleast been in the training squad but would anybody else be a 'surprise' selection and play for the Boomers for the next 10 years?
Exum not being there is a massive loss as very few of the squad will get to the rack and getting in the bonus could be our greatest challenge.
Why cant we beat both Lithuania and Canada? Canada is falling apart. Now Chris Boucher is out and they continue to lose guys literally during camp. And we smashed Lithuania by 35 at the Olympics with a similar team. We might not dominate them this time but why shouldn't we still win?
so an Anon says WMW should not be picked because he plays in div 2, but 5 guys who are playing in nbl ( a very mediocre league) got picked ahead 2 nba guys (the best league in the world ). How does this work ?
The double standards is unbelievable.
I'm happy for the players and all but the selection process needs an overhaul in my opinion.
Rather than selecting the best available players, Lemanis selected the team based on how they performed over 3 days of learning his system of play. The thing is, what has his system actually won lately? Absolutley Nothing.
Sure he coached the 2016 team very well but the players selected, possibly with the exception of Newley, were clearly the best talent available at the time.
Creek and Adel are experienced versatile athletic 2 way players who in my opinion are much better and well rounded players than guys like Goulding or Gliddon. Yet, based on the 3 days playing/learning a system which hasn't actually won anything Lemanis went with his own biases and chose 2 less talented players. I understand he wants shooters but Goulding and Gliddon basically make each other redundant and don't offer anything on defense whereas Creek and Adel offer a variety of skill sets, athleticism and length. Adel is basically the prototypical 3nD player that every team needs. These guys are on the cusp of being NBA roles players so of course they could fill a role for the Boomers. I'm 100% comfortable saying what ever role Gliddon or Goulding play, either Adel or Creek would play it better.
In the Boomers case this time around, Lemanis actually had a decent pool of players to choose from and he selected based on his own vision plays style rather than selecting based on the merits and talent of an individual. The guy thinks he's Pop.
In my opinion, when you're talking about the national team, the best players available should be picked first and then a system established not the other way around. This is especially the case if the system hasn't actually produced or won anything. I can already envision what will happen, we will play a contender early in the tournament and smash them, we will meet them again in the knock out rounds and guess what, because we play one way the system will be found out.. doesnt that remind you of 2016 against Serbia? Anyway #GoBoomers
Creek over Goulding? Any role Goulding could play, Creek could do better? Yawn. Goulding is a proven winner, a champion. He led a team of talented players to the promised land. He doesn't have to talk himself up after proving nothing, not making it, and then running back to Australia with his tail between his legs acting like he is some war hero. He tried, he didn't have a defined role. Time to move on and support your country.
#108 maybe you should put your hand up to coach then you can pick the side you want. Coaches including assistant all have there say and pick the best balanced side they believe will do the job, that's the way it should be. Don’t forget Luke Longley is on the coaching panel, I’d say his knowledge in world basketball would be outstanding. Neither Adel or Mitch did enough to make the side, let’s move on.
Are we favourites, no way, top eight will be very good, there is some great sides there. Go boomers.
"As is some of the unbridled and blinkered optimism on here
We ain't as good as we think we are. Just one if the pack. I hope to be proved wrong in a few weeks.'
Depends what pack you're talking about. We're a top 8 team at very least, and I think we have a fighting chance of doing better than that.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:03 am, Thu 22 Oct 2020 | Posts: 846,879 | Last 7 days: 412