Kay's selection was a huge mistake over Motum. I think Sobey will be fine, and his speed and athleticism are fine, even at the NBA level. He’ll just have to get the nerves out. Gliddon as a spot up guy in random situations could also be ok, but Kay is the stand out issue.
The douche hating on Creek is a clown, as Creek has proven himself at the next level. Now pipe down chump.
Early days but do agree, Kay's lack of athleticism is hurting him, and don’t shoot me but Sobey isn’t a point guard. Get the ball to Goulding and let him have a shot. You now understand the Cook selection, long lean and athletic, fast, the modern basketball player.
Sobey and Kay on together is painful to watch, especially Sobey trying to play the point. I understand the experiment at NBL level and can get away with it a bit, but he is so out of his depth even against Canada. Put him against top European teams and I hope they don't wear the gold shorts because he'll shit himself. Lemanis is a goose for selection, probably one of the lures to bullets was that he'll play point for boomers.
Then again Cadee could be there.
Yeah Heal's comment about Delly not having another game like this... I mean, Delly is not a scorer. He had games like this against D-grade Asian squads offensively. He's not on the team to score, but does need to look to shoot when he gets into the paint at the very least.
Boomers defense was a major problem all night. I wondered if Lemanis intentionally played an ineffective D, or he really had no idea that Nurse would run an offense similar to Toronto. Meanwhile, had the Boomers shot the 3-ball as well as Canada, the scores would be even.
Is it true that people bought tickets to this game thinking Simmons vs Wiggins and got 40 mins of non effort and bricked shots?
Why were Kay and Sobey playing so scared? Most of the players they were playing are ranked lower than them.
Creek at least looked activated.
Lemanis will have to think about how to play the on-ball screens. Nurse relies a lot on them. NBA teams prefer to switch a lot, which might require us to think about some other lineups.
This is where I prefer to see players like Gliddon get minutes than Sobey. Baynes over Bogut. Bolden with more minutes.
In this respect losing Cooks might be a significant loss as he seems quite versatile defensively.
I didn't mind Sobey, but Kay is out of his depth. Our D was woeful, looked like 5 guys were on 5 different pages. Lemanis has to cop the blame for that.
Mills, Bogut, Landale and Ingles all looked good, and Delly can definitely be better than he was. So what I would hope is that once we get into meaningful competition and the rotation tightens, things might improve quite a bit.
Some random thoughts:
1) Kay is not an international quality basketballer and it was a mistake he was selected ahead of Motum.
2) Delly was awful and hopefully this was just a one off (although I'm not so sure).
3) Bogut has the lateral movement of a bus and doesn’t even attempt to guard a pick and roll.
4) Sobey and Goulding at his age look like NBL players, not Boomers.
5) Anyone calling for Lemanis’ head after this game knows nothing about the game.
"Some random thoughts:
1) Kay is not an international quality basketballer and it was a mistake he was selected ahead of Motum.
2) Delly was awful and hopefully this was just a one off (although I'm not so sure).
3) Bogut has the lateral movement of a bus and doesn't even attempt to guard a pick and roll.
4) Sobey and Goulding at his age look like NBL players, not Boomers.
5) Anyone calling for Lemanis’ head after this game knows nothing about the game."
I agree with point 5, but think anyone who makes points 1-4 after one game knows nothing about the game either!
That was a terrible performance. Yes it's a warm up game but getting blown out at home against that Canadian team is concerning. It didn't look like the Boomers were running much at all tonight and just letting Mills jack it up all night so that's likely one saving grace.
The Kay over Motum selection still looks silly after tonight Kay is a plodder at this level Motum with his range offers a point of difference. Gliddon's got no business being there but we knew that already and Sobey still looks shaky running the point.
Good efforts tonight from Bogut & Landale but we need to get a bit more serious tomorrow night.
1. Boomers rotations were extremely slow. In many cases leading to mismatches.
2. Boomers close outs were also very slow. You can't say that Canada were just lucky with their shots. They were getting easy looks off slack defence.
3. Half the boomers were playing reactively to Canada. The other half were playing scared.
4. I missed the Delly to bogut alley oops and pick and roll
5. Boomers were forcing the 3 too much
6. The boomers were not running plays. Concerning that plays were not run following time outs
7. Creek looked confident. Kay and sobey had nerves to shake off. Landale was a natural. Delly had an off game. The rest were meh.
8. Delly was playing more as a scorer than a distributor
It’s only one game. But damn that was an absolute shocker. They can’t afford to have lapses like that in the actual World Cup.
Not sure what you're talking about Paul.
Points 2-4 were just comments on the ONE game tonight which I think were pretty justified.
Point 1 was just an opinion and I agree that Kay ahead of Motum will be answered in time so I apologise for my lack of knowledge on that one.
The best thing to happen for the boomers would be losing all matches in the world cup so we will have lemanis sacked before the tokyo olympics. i wouldn't be able to stand watching crappy players like gliddon, Kay, founding, cooks in the next olympics. We need to pick an all nba team to have any chance of medalling.
Maker clearly trolling. Our NBA talent for the most part other than Simmons and Mills are deadset roll players. And ageing role players at that. We will improve but we have batted above yourselves for a long time. They didn't show any cards tonight.
Also wtf was up with "top off 5:30" advertised everywhere when it actually started at 5:50. Screwed a lot of people's plans over and made them rush for no reason. Stuffed up my plans a bit, I was there just after 5 and then when I realised the time was a stitch up at 5:28 I went to grab some beers and people are literally running to their seats because they thought the game was about to start.
With you Maker. Would need to write a novel to discuss the issues. Any other NBL coach could do better. Its not too late. Find a coach who can look at our best talent and bring a structure that pulls their collective talent together as a team instead of trying to rewrite the book and expect them to change to suit an ineffective structure with zero D ! from most players. ts not rocket science at this level with the talent you have and the experience or should I say potential experience !!!
That was terrible, no atmosphere whatsoever, was just like an overcrowded rec centre game. Terrible D, offense that looked like the team only met tonight. Looked like Gliddon, Goulding, Sobey and Creek were told it to take any shots. Sugar coat it all you want, exhibition game, whatever, it was a terrible performance all-around. Bogut didn't even put his hands up half the time when someone was coming down the land.
agree, anon. There is no room for nbl level players in big tournament like WC and olympics. There is a reason why they can't make it to the NBA, the toughest league in the world, they are simply not athletic and skillful enough. Adel and Green could have been picked but lemanis instead chose 4 slow, unathletic nbl guys. Just feel these wrong selections is going to backfire for him
I don't think you can completely write kay (or any players) off just yet. Yeah a lot of NBL guys looked out of their depth but the whole team looked pretty shit tonight. I'm willing to give them all a few warm up games plus a world cup game or two before making a decision on them.
It did have a real 'exhibition' feel about it and like no one was trying 100% and that things weren't clicking properly.
Australia needs to look outside the box in choosing a coach. Safe bet is getting an NBL guy, that won't work IMO in international hoops. The other world game, soccer or football or whatever you choose to call it bring in international coaches with schemes that locals don't use. Best example was Hiddink who was successful in my limited knowledge of game because he knew how to take on international powerhouses, not Lemanis who has a crush on guys like Cadee. Have watched a bit of international ball lately, enjoyed watching Slovenia with Igor Kokoskov win European title in 17. Didn't have success with Phoenix but only given a year with shit team. Sure they had Dragic and Doncic but just watching offensively it was poetry at times. Need someone like that to come in and give fresh ideas, would rather that than watch the crap Lemanis trots out all the time. Need to take some high risk high rewards than go with Kay and the like. Even Goulding could be unleashed, love him or hate him, when he gets going he can swing a game.
But after we finish out of the medals again I can see someone like Bevo getting the job and we go around in circles again. Canada did play well tonight but we really looked like we hadn't even trained before. Sobey was lucky to get the ball over the half, let alone begin an offence, only bright spark for me was Landale, expect him to be in NBA next year, wouldn't surprise me for raptors to sign him on multi year deal.
The A-team haven't played in 3 years. Boomers played just 5 players from Rio tonight. There are 6 players new to the A-team that need to find their roles. This is their first actual game playing together. Canada has played against two World Cup teams already.
As for Kay, he didn't fill up the boxscore and he showed some signs of struggling athletically, but interestingly he was -3 in 17 minutes, the 2nd best on the team in +/- behind Bolden.
Glidden 1 shot in 10 minutes -- he isnt exactly in the team for rebounding or defense.
Delly stats - woeful.
Kay - 17 mins 2 rebounds
6/34 3 points will lose a lot of games.
Sobey/Goulding/Glidden seems like a lot of smiliar players. Motum in the past has proved to be instant offence, instant energy, instant rebounds.
Went to SBS on Demand to see if I could watch the replay - Instantly have a spoiler there of the result. - Hope they do better with that during NBL season.
Left field but I think brondello would do a better job than lemanis.
Probably Gleeson next in line although I think we should go for someone who has not been in the program already. Maybe a coach from abroad or give a young coach a go like Seebohm.
Top coaches outside Australia are not available in the qualifying rounds if they are in Europe or US. The two assistant coaches are Americans. One coaching the kings this season. The other Simmons mate so not certain where you get a senior coach from. Bevo would be excellent and I don't think a club coach should do it.
To early to judge yet, Lemanis has not failed yet.
I actually can't believe the autistic screeching I am reading here, nor the short memory spans.
Before Rio, the Boomers were almost beaten twice by a travelling college All Star team. Their coach took pity on us and said "they'll struggle at the Olympics".
We then followed it up by being pantsed by every warm up opponent on the way to the Olympics. It was actually farcical. I remember wondering if we'd even win a single game at the cup.
Then game one of the Olympics came, and it was like chalk and cheese. The slow and lumbering looking Boomers suddenly had zest and knew what they were doing. We dominated France in the first game, went on to beat Serbia, and gave USA plenty of food for thought on our way to a bronze medal showdown that we were extremely unlucky to lose.
So why the difference? Well, as a good friend put it, why practice only dribbling with your right hand?
The Boomers are trying out their back up offensive and defensive plans, and they're trying out rotations. The game plan they applied to Canada was not tailored to beating Canada but testing certain things against a living opposition. If testing out defensive structured C or D means that some cannuck is open for more elbow jumpers than he should be... so be it. If testing out offensive structure C or D means there was no screen to open up Goulding for that corner three, then so be it.
When teams play practice matches and say they're "working on themselves" and that the score doesn't really matter, that is precisely the case.
Now, the things you can reasonably gripe about are the shooting and intensity. Shooting was awful and I wouldn't expect that to happen again. Intensity was low, but they just came out of camp. These are professionals who have not played in proper competitive games for a few months.
People having a whinge seem to think that the only difference between a warm up game and the real deal is just timing, it's not. It's a whole different can of fish altogether.
My main concern is how poor Delly looked tonight. If he continues playing at that standard the boomers are not likely to medal. We don't really have too many natural playmakers so he is important. Yes ingles and Bogut are good playmakers but you need guards can soak up possession after possession and create good shots for the team. Canada seemed to have a couple of those guys.
No wonder Creek was going off at them at camp if they relied on this kind of game plan and effort.
He's played a season in and amongst these players filling many WC teams and knows how fast and athletic it is. If they thought shooting well as Longley has been banging on about was enough thats what their game looked like tonight. And Lemanis needs a pill to lift his emotions. Give them something Andre to inspire them. Geese... your not their math teacher
I don’t think this team has it in them
to be honest to take on the tough teams to come. No mongrel in them. Motum, Anderson and Brandt last campaign brought the muscle inside and there is no evidence of any of that. And the defence that was like watching U10 newbies.
"No mongrel in them. Motum, Anderson and Brandt"
WTF? How about "dirty" Delly, as some NBAers liked to call him. You surely can't think Bogut has no mongrel in him? Then there is Mills, the Tasmanian devil in San Antonio. Baynes is as hard-nosed as you can get. These are the same guys that Americans reporters have remarked that NBA teams should add due to that exact reason, without the Australian terminology. Creek can offer some mongrel, too, if given some court time. Sobey is a bit of a hot-head, but if directing that in the right direction, combined with some confidence at this level, he could be useful.
I rate Motum, but he hasn't yet filled an important role on the A-team. Andersen is a big loss due to his experience and he can be a microwave off the bench. Perhaps this is where Motum might have been able to step up to take on a similar role. Instead, we have Bolden, coming off a decent rookie season in the NBA after a strong Euro stint. Not sure if Bolden is out of favour, being kept hidden for some reason, or the coaches intend to give extended time to a different 4 each game to see who they mesh well with. The 4-spot is crucial to experiment with because we have an all-new 4-man rotation.
This is a 3 game series where games 1 and 2 don't matter. Lemanis would certainly be hiding things from Nurse. So this Nurse schooling Lemanis talk is far too premature. We won't know who out-coached who until the end of game 3.
Delly is the biggest issue right now. If it's not a talent thing, the team doesn’t look balanced with Delly out there. I feel he should play a Damian Martin style role off the bench. D up some guys and hustle.
Ingles and Mills in the backcourt, Creek or Bolden, Landale and Baynes.
All the people saying they agreed with Creek’s omission, don’t understand his value well. He can put points on the board in a role and is tough as nails. The Canadian defender bounced off him.
If I was in charge I'd be telling the head coach to 1 don't let anybody get hurt. 2 don't show your hand. 3 since it's almost impossible to beat any team three times in a row it's better to win the last one and lose the first two. Anybody that watches sports in America knows preseason doesn't mean s***. You're just trying to find out what works and what doesn't work. And if you think there's a long line for coaches that want to work for free, and fly around the world on commercial planes, with no real upside ... You're crazy.
And yet you're asking fans to shell out hundreds of dollars to watch it. Can’t have it both ways. If it’s just a 'warm-up’ or ‘exhibition’ then don’t sell it as something else. Better still, have a couple of closed sessions if you’re just going to be trying stuff out. These games need to have at least a bit of meaning if you’re expecting fans to pay big dollars.
I think this will be our Tokyo Olympics squad if we make it.
Yes this the squad I would take to Rio
But I am not sure anon. If lemanis still takes charge of the Olympics squad, gliddon, sobey, kay and goulding would still make the squad ahead of some nba players. Lemanis is just insane with his player selections.
Funny people saying 'can't call for coaches sacking after 1 game’. I’ve been saying it for 5 years.
This is the guy we’ve entrusted our golden generation to ?
Simple. Spend some money BA, get the best credentialed medal winning coach out there. Someone who’s proved they can do it ! And don’t restrict your search to native English speakers.
I know a lot of you want to bag the NBL guys but seriously, our big names have got to play both ends of the floor. Kay might not have scored but IMO he at least helped to stem the bleeding while he was out there. His +/- was a damn site better than most for the minutes he played and if our superstars had have scored he'd have racked up a few assists as well.
And as for Sobey, Gliddon, Goulding and Creek - we didn’t lose because of them. It wasn’t our night but I for one am really looking forward to round 2.
Hopefully "fans" who are so keen to knock our team will have reason to compliment players.
We need a proven international medal winner who's proven he can command and work effectively with NBA level talent
Who's interested ? Well who have we asked with the right offer ?? No-one
I would say coaching the Boomers in Tokyo would be a very enticing prospect for the right coach. Only needs to be a six month appointment
My pick is Djordjevic but you'll never pry him from Serbia
Sergio Hernandez ?
Sergio Scariolo ?
Vincent Collet ?
Carlo Recalcalti (he's getting on though)
Kęstutis Kemzūra & Blatt as a Team ?
BA dont even know who these blokes are i'd say
Yes the boomers looked very average but agree with ME comments.
Didnt Lemanis play hard and show all cards against a Euro team who was a group opponent in his first big tournament. We won that warm up game but got pantsed in the tournament as they used the game to work out how to beat us when it counts. I assume he learnt from that.
The main goal here is to win WC games not warm up games, and definitely not show your hand.
So maybe you could get back to us when one of those guys says "sure, I'll work 6 months for another country for free." You do remember who went undefeated last year for the Asian cup tournament (I think 17 teams) and came within one point of the bronze in Rio. Any other coach in Australian history done either of those two things? This is a shitty job. And people with short memories make it even more shitty. Giving up on a team or a coach after one preseason game makes you a wanker. If you think you can do better, I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
Yep agree I would dead set be a w*nker if I'd said I expect them to do it for free Joe ? But I didn't, maybe read more better bro. BTW is Lemanis doing it for free is he ? If we are happy with pounding no-one in Asia, non- medal finishes and the tripe we dished up last night (ie more of the same) well AL is our man. And this aint his first rodeo, it'll be his 3rd major tournament (4th if you count your the amazing Asian Champs win), Tokyo his fifth. Had plenty of chances.
Very happy to be proved wrong tonight, next week and in China by the way. Zero evidence to suggest it will though.
If Cotton is eligible for 2020 Olympics then FFS get him in at the expense of Goulding.
Once Broekhoff, Exum, Simmons and Maker return hopefully we see no more Sobey, Creek, Gliddon and Kay.
Creek shouldn't be there he is lucky Cooks got injured and Broekhoff was unavailable.
As for the future post Bogut, Baynes, Ingles, Mills and Dellavedova,
We should be looking to Cooks, Humphries, Green and Makur Maker in future games after Tokyo.
All the coaches love the plus, minus stat, if you're plus 9 in two minutes and haven’t touched the ball you have contributed to good team D, it’s not always about the twenty shots you took at 20%.
If I recall last night game Bolden played around ten minutes for zero, Kay who did look shaky approx fifteen but was minus three which shows hustle on defence. Goulding again so underrated on these forums minus three in approx fifteen, played good D and team first.
To early to crucify everyone and to early to pick an Olympic team, a lot can change in twelve months. Not all nba players are stars either, at times right place right time, right agent, and the good old contacts.
Hopefully we come out of a very tough group and make top eight but it ain’t a certainty.
My take on the game was that
- Canada came to play, whereas we seemed tired for much of the game, and played like we'd just met each other
- we were forced to play at a pace slightly faster than we were comfortable with (which is why we missed so many shots, and why the NBL guys struggled)
- we struggled to defend the on-ball screens, being too slow to get to them
- there were too many Canadian shots where we didn’t’t box out properly
- we struggled to defend the quick first step by some of the Canadians
- we always knew Pangos would be dangerous but didn’t seem able or willing to shut him down
- we will get better quickly
As for Motum versus Kay, give Kay another few games to find his feet.
Adel may be more athletic and suit the NBA, but international ball isn’t NBA ball and we need TEAM players rather than iso specialists.
Green may be a player of the future, but give him time to prove himself first. Or are those who want to see him in the Boomers right now looking back at the experiment when we blooded young Gaza, Longley and (Which was successful, as it turned out.)
I think what's happening is there has been a distinct 'promote the NBL' tone to this whole campaign. From the 'Kay is dominating camp' propaganda to the selection of NBL players over NBA and proven international talent, the laughable Homicide interview with Marto last nite 'tell me this is a top 5 league Damo':). Hard to promote the NBL if no NBL players good enough to make the international stage. All seems a bit like a like a promo for the NBL not a campaign for our first international medal.
Considering basketball is the second biggest team sport in the world, finishing out of the medals is probably not a surprise. While round ball football is the biggest sport in nearly every country in the world basketball is also highly popular and in the US, Lithuania plus a few other countries is the biggest. If our media would cover world sports instead of sports played by a few countries that we beat up on most would realise how hard WC and Olympics basketball medals are.
Cricket, rugby, league, netball are not world sports.
It would be helpful if you could just name the coaches that said yes I'll do this crappy job for free that takes up a big part of my year. I'll be away from my wife and family. I'll fly all over the country and tiny little planes and stay in s***** hotels for nothing. Pretty sure that all would gladly step down if somebody better wanted to do it. Same goes for the players. They do it because they enjoy each other's company and it's a challenge. And they like representing their country. Explain to me what you do for free that helps the country. The last time I Googled best professional basketball leagues the NBL was 14. Anything better than 14 and they're overachieving.
Nothing like an unexpected loss to bring out the hysterical idiots.
It's especially the NBA-centric fans here who think talent is only defined by NBA experience. It's the same people here who disparage the NBL that then say Australia should medal because, what, we have 5 NBA role players, compared with other teams that have a lot more NBA players. WTF? Let's assume NBL is a relatively low standard league, as they say, then what do they think all the players that play in all those superior leagues are doing? They don't represent national teams?
Canada may be without nearly all their NBA players, but that doesn't mean they are without depth of talent. Look at someone like Pangos. This guy was discounted as a nobody to the NBA-centric lot. Basketball is still a much bigger sport in Canada than Australia, with a 50% larger population and proximity to the US. Canada has struggled to get organised and had difficulties qualifying for some major events because of it.
Pangos is the starting point guard for Barcelona, no nbl team go near them. To many just believe we should win with out knowing the true facts. That doesn't mean the nbl isn’t in the top tier of leagues in the world it’s just most countries have greater depth due to population and it is a bigger sport in most countries.
More than a bit rusty! We looked AWFUL! Delly, Bogut and Ingles moved like old men and looked really unfit. Aside from Landale, Mills, Creek and Sobey, we looked slow and unathletic next to the Canadians! Couldn't stay in front of their guards, nor could our bigs get out to challenge shooters on the high pick and roll.
Don't know how we're going to have enough fitness in time for the World Champs! Losing Cooks hurts! Should seriously consider getting Adel in there for one of our flotilla of slow, end of bench guys.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 11:48 pm, Tue 17 Sep 2019 | Posts: 790,473 | Last 7 days: 2,070