What if LTU beat FRA tonight. Both 3-1 so FRA game still needs to be a victory?

Depends on the tiebreaker, and nobody has established what that is yet.

Crazy that there is so much conflicting info.

France. If they win we are guaranteed a spot in the last 8.

No because if they beat France and France beat us its a 3 way tie and all will have 1 win one loss head to head. Unless FIBA have completely changed their tiebreak rules then it would then come down to points differential between those three teams.

Cheer for France. Then the France-Australia result only determines whether Australia finishes 2nd or 1st if Lithuania beat France, there's still a chance the Boomers finish 3rd.

The frenchies are switched on

Keep it up France.

France win

Well, at least now I don't have to listen to Heal bang on about +/- any more, or ever again.
From here on it, its simple. Beat France and we play the Czechs or Greeks, lose and we play the USA, and from there on in its sudden death.

Nostraballmus respectfully advises Anons that winning a quarter final v Bra/Cze/Gre doesn't get u a medal. One more win needed after that in a semi or bronze playoff.

Nostraballmus respectfully asks the brains trust 'What was with the inexplicable arrogance on display by the Aussie's last night and is it any reason to be concerned about the mindset of the group for the France game and beyond ? Discuss.

Nostraballmus thanks u for your feedback but reminds you that it looked like arrogance to me and that we ain't won nothing yet and have been in quarters before.

France are shooting the 3 ball at 49% in this tournament. Time for them to cool down?

Rjd, Nostraballmus hopes so too. They hopefully may have used up some lucky charm v Lithuania too

It amazes me that the tournament exists in such a way that you can win 4 games in a row, but if you lose 1 more you either get the USA boobieprize, or you go home. Every game of this tournament has been do or die for us.

Aussies have had two subpar games but those came against lesser lights Senegal and DR.

Aussies have turned it up against Canada and Lithuania.

Anyone can beat anyone- whoever executes the basics better will probably win- strong team defense, rebounding, running our plays smoothly and hitting shots. And not giving up too many turnovers!

So much rides on this game:

WIN- Play Czech or Greece, then Spain or Poland. Definitely do-able.

LOSE- Play USA (Assuming they beat Brazil), then Serbia or Argentina. Ouch. Possible but....yeah, tough, tough, tough.

Slightly off topic but the Australian Boomers Instagram page has fantastic content!

Worth getting the FIBA WC app if you don't have it too. It's not perfect but it's far better than browsing their website on mobile.

"It amazes me that the tournament exists in such a way that you can win 4 games in a row, but if you lose 1 more you either get the USA boobieprize, or you go home. Every game of this tournament has been do or die for us."

Not sure if this is correct. Have no idea how it works.

But certainly the tournament feels a lot harder to progress/go deep into? Not sure if its just the draw Australia has had or what?


Is it the 32 teams aspect?

I'd say that has a bit to do with it. While there are 11 teams from Africa and Asia, that leaves 21 teams from Oceania, Europe and the Americas, the vast majority of which can play.

In 2014, 6 of the 24 were from Africa and Asia, meaning fewer quality teams. Add to that the fact China was given such a good run, it meant the other side of the draw became pretty loaded.

Further to that, the knockout round previously started at 16/24 teams, whereas it now starts at 8/32, so instead of 2/3 of the tournament playing a knockout game it's only 1/4.

Despite it not being "knock out," two of four teams only advance in each stage, so it is still 50-50. Hence it seeming like "every game is almost a knock out."

It's just the reality of tournament sport.

High intensity, high stakes, can't afford an off night and need a little luck.

Yes true, but the previous WC tournament format didn't have the same reality for good teams leading up to the knockout stage, my guess is that's one of the main reasons why this tourney seems so much harder.

""It amazes me that the tournament exists in such a way that you can win 4 games in a row, but if you lose 1 more you either get the USA boobieprize, or you go home. Every game of this tournament has been do or die for us."

Not sure if this is correct. Have no idea how it works.

But certainly the tournament feels a lot harder to progress/go deep into? Not sure if its just the draw Australia has had or what?


Is it the 32 teams aspect?"

I'd say it comes down to a few things:
1. The Draw was designed to give China a cushy ride. An easy path through the first two Groups, and an easy draw in the finals. By Accident or Design, we ended up on the opposite side, ie the tough side.
2. The 2-stage group phase. In other tourneys, you could win 2/3 games and progress (as Litho did) but that would be that. You'd be into the next round with a clean slate. Because the games carry over, winning 3/3 becomes vitally important.
3. Bad Luck of getting drawn opposite the USA for QF. Sure, finishing 2nd in the last of the pool stages will always get you the tougher opponent in the QF, but in other cases the difference is marginal, and we would still give ourselves a chance.

I agree this tourney really favours an undefeated approach.

I don't agree with the USA being a bad draw outcome - not this time around. I would sooner come up against USA than either Spain or Serbia. Sure, Serbia played pretty badly last night, but I also think that's a reflection on Spain.

They both play good pass-first basketball and feature some amazing shooters. The US have a couple of reasonable shooters, but play iso ball and pick and roll, and don't feature any of the overpowering athletes we've come to expect from USA.

Where the USA are intimidating is at the other end. That was the biggest learning for them from 2006, they need to disrupt defensively to create easy scores and flow into offence. When they get that right they are very hard to defeat, regardless of who is in the team.

Lets beat the frogs

The tournament favours winning because every game is important. We have seen in the past tanking as a legitimate tactic because the format made this possible. Most games in this years tournament have been vital to win for both teams and this has resulted in some sensational games.

Not confident tonight because of the inconsistent way we have been playing. Need to step it up to our 2016 Olympics level now to keep up with the competition.

Nostraballmus is a fan of this format. Means every game counts. The new gold standard in tournament formats. Whoever is responsible, elevate them to the pantheon of competition systems, alongside McIntyre, Duckworth-Lewis and the dude who developed Family Feud.

Green uniforms tonight? We should be fine.

McIntyre format rewards failure in playoffs so no.

Mat Russell on the mic tonight. Fox you trolls.

Gonna give up 40 mid range pull up jumpers. France are too good to not hit uncontested shots like a training drill

Offensive rebound Mitch Creek. Well done mate!

Good patch from Creek then. Defensive rebound then offensive rebound and layup on the buzzer.

France already showing they can milk the refs better than we can

How about some flop warnings, refs?

Refs calling everything after litho coaches winge. We should milk the fouls in this

Does Jonah Bolden know this is on?

US to beat France in the GF - we're not looking too reliable right now, and the US juggernaut just keeps rolling on

Sigh. Turnovers. This team play their arses off but geeeeeeze the bloody turnovers.

Thought the offensive foul on Bogut was a bit rough.

Then Mills just now no-looked at the wrong guy. You don't fake and then pass to a guy in a non-threatening position! Unnecessary risk.

Lucky it’s as close as it is because they’re getting easy buckets.

Baynes is superb tonight.

Impressive effort to be tied at the half considering how easily we seem to be letting France score. It doesn't feel sustainable to me though.

Going off purely on an eye test but FRA are way more efficient than us. But at least there's been no damage so far.

Golden State Wanderers. Wow.

How about those Golden State Wanderers?

Heal keeps claiming it's Lemanis' grand plan. Thoughts?

France has had no turnovers and produced 13 points off turnovers. It would help a lot if we started to force turnovers to get some cheap baskets. We are not generating much from our defense yet.

Solid half, have a gut feeling foul trouble could be the decider factor in who wins, we need to attack and get them on their heels

Strategy hasn't changed from the start, leave the open 2 pt jumpers. Pretty stupid imo.

Only the best basketball team of the last 5+ years. But hey, you cant expect a basketball commentator to know that.

Passion doesn't win games.

Critical junction here. France have ramped up the D

Mills has been huge. 19pts already.

Certainly Goulding isn't going to help.

Well the ref fix is in. What is this amatuer officiating

Couple real BS calls there

Another third-quarter fade-out

Basketball needs an advantage rule.

Keep the belief people.

Gliddon / Sobey / Barlow are such wasted roster spots.

Having another defender would've been useful

Try and put the brakes on Fournier

How tough is our team. They never stop

Finally France turn it over only for us to insta turn it over back to them. Twice.

Goddamn it that was ugly

Bogut and Delly 4 fouls.

Serious discrepencies in calls on drives and moving screens. Typical boomers cannot catch a breaknat the business end ofna tournament

4pt deficit going into the last quarter. Could be worse.

Casey with the half time spoiler on the USA Brazil game. Guess I won't be staying up to watch tonight.

If Shane Heal uses the term "Superstars" just one more time then I'm going to burn my lounge Room to the ground.

At least he's forgotten about 'trifecta'

Americans have a (justified) arrogance in their basketball superiority, but the europeans and their fiba refs are just ridiculous. Non europeans always gets shitty calls when it counts

I love Aaron Baynes

Aron Baynes you are a star!

Wait for the BS call on either Delly or Bogut to foul them out....

FIBA has always been Euro-centric. We may as well not exist.

Let's go Patty

Anther bs call as Creek gets hit in the chops

Patty is an amazing cherry picker.

Wow, we got the charge call.

Patty Baynes Ingles keeping us in it

Baynes again on D!

Mareeba.

God damn I love this team!

Would Bolden have shown as much toughness and focus as the guys are showing?

No. Same goes for Simmons.

Delly fake to Creek. MASSIVE

Tough stuff Mitch

Missed bump foul on Mills.
Missed foul on Ingles.
#FIBA

Boomer Creek >> NBL Creek

About 3 shoves by french defense in that last play before the timeout. Get goulding out there for the flops, onlu way to get a call

Creek at least assisted Bogut just then.

Bogut fouls out.

Bogut gone, wait for delly next play

Baynes is amazing. 5/6 3FG

Wow Baynes. Excellent patience boys, keep it going!

We're in the bonus first.

Baynes another charge drawn. What a hero.

Can't say enough about Baynes.

Turnovers on the other hand...

Trifecta and basketball don't go together. Shit commentary.

Excellent seal by Baynes. Incredible performance tonight.

Ingles!!!!!

Albicy just running into people looking to flop.

Trifecta lol. We're not at the track.

Heart can't take it. Can we fast forward the last minute?

Baynes' best game for the Boomers?

Delly! Gobert fouls out!

Nice Delly. Free throws and we'll get it back again

Gobert fouls out

Good night froggy

Gobert gone!!

Way too easy :(

Delly another crucial foul drawn!

OMG

So close to saving that ball!

Millimetres the difference in that Baynes O board. :(

Millimetres the difference in that Baynes O board. :(

Oh no baynes, so close, that was game

YESSSSSsSsSsSsSSsSSSSSSsSSsSSsS

Mills with the steal hahahahahhaha

Mills robbed the bank!

Pattyyyyyyyy!!! Legend!

Greatest end to a Boomers game in the modern era

:D

USA 59-52 BRA

Mills read that play to de colo before he even came out of the timeout

AWESOME

Boomers!!!!!!!!

We play CZE 100%? Best QF opponent you could ask for on our side of the draw. It's our time.

Creek seals it

Patty you're a hero but just throw it up the court

Yeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhh

One of the finest Boomers wins I've ever seen.

oh and F**K YES

Phoenix fans have not got a clue in the player they have in Baynes!

Critical moments for Patty and Mitch there. Brilliant. Awesome game.

Tough call for mvp of the game but im going Baynes before Mills.
His defense put us back in the game and 5/6 from 3 is huge.

Revenge for 2000. Taking out Canada and France.

Keep the belief people.

Russell kept saying we play CZE when USA-BRA winner hasn't been determined? What a commentator.

Wow what a high quality win that was!!! So many heroes for the boomers. Baynes was unbeleivable at both ends. Delly and creek with heads up plays. Mills the GOAT!

Although now USA are up by double digits. Nice.

Green & gold game of a lifetime by Baynes. He was amazing.

Mainstream media is fake news. They don't cover us. It is what it is.

I thought our turnovers would be our demise in that last quarter.. Luckily fournier also went cold and missed a couple of open jumpers

That was the best Boomers game I can remember.

Can't think of a better big man game in Boomers colors than Baynes tonight.

Nostraballmus is well pleased and will sleep well

Lemanis thought he didn't need Creek.

I took great joy in Creek's smart final play. Executed perfectly. I never thought a play like that could be so satisfying.

Baynes now leading the team in 3pt% at 53%. And that's from a not insignificant 3 3PAs a game.

One of the finest Boomers wins I've ever seen.

That was the best Boomers game I can remember.

We have advanced out of the Group of Death 5-0. Amazing.

Watching the last 3 minutes Rudy Gobert really did some stupid things. Charge on Baynes, foul on Ingles when we're in the bonus. Then foul on Delly to send him to the line and get himself fouled out. Le stupid.

Creek had a couple of poor defensive plays, but overall his defence was absolutely critical. It took the coaching staff a while to figure out we needed him playing big minutes, but once they used he and Ingles for those assignments our D went up a little.

Baynes was just incredible, Ingles, Delly and Mills with some huge moments. Credit to Albicy, he defended Patty as well as anyone has this tournament.

Nice way to grind out another win.

Czech Republic, USA, Serbia, Argentina, Poland, Spain and France now know that this Boomers team has a never give up attitude and will fight all the way to the finish.

"The medals over money crew."

Love this.

Joey's jawing may have got into Gobert's head, which is why he became distracted.

Came into this thread after the game and had a laugh at the posts at those who had given up on the Boomers. Perthworld said "Keep the faith" and after that the tide turned.

Yes Le stupid Gobert was defending the paint all night and then in the last couple of minutes he begins stepping out to defend the perimeter. Boomers created some lay ups with the extra pass taking advantage of the space and Gobert was too slow to get back and defend the key again.

"Keep this team for the Olympics. The medals over money crew."

Simmons, Exum and Broekhoff in for Barlow, Sobey & Gliddon and we have one hell of a team. Exum and Broekhoff are already bought in, can Simmons sacrifice to play a role to help the team? Because it will be different to what he does in Philly.

"... can Simmons sacrifice to play a role to help the team?"

After all that time getting hopes up, again and again, anticipating Simmons in a Boomers singlet at a major tournament, expecting the Boomers will hand over the keys to him, now we are in a position to question whether Simmons would accept a reduced role.

There is no way the people who run this team would take Kay out. I can understand from a fan's point of view, but not from a practical point of view. Neither Bolden or Maker can provide what Kay does, they're not like-for-like.

After all that time getting hopes up, again and again, anticipating Simmons in a Boomers singlet at a major tournament, expecting the Boomers will hand over the keys to him, now we are in a position to question whether Simmons would accept a reduced role.

"Would you bring Cooks in for Creek, as per the original selected team?"

No. I would have picked Creek anyway, but I think he's certainly showed his value in this tournament, and guys who've shown value are highly likely to be in next year's team I would think.

"Or does Maker come in for Landale."

Possibly, but after Landale has gained this experience at the level and learned how the team plays, do you bring in someone without that experience who is unproven at this level?

What he does have is a very particular set of skills. Skills he has acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a nightmare for players like ...

Came into this thread after the game and had a laugh at the posts at those who had given up on the Boomers. Perthworld said "Keep the faith" and after that the tide turned.

many People here have said nba role players are not necessarily better than nbl players and should not be automatically selected for the boomers. I say bullshit, without fringe nba / role players like baynes, mills, bogut, delly the boomers would have lost every single game in this WC. Imagine how much stronger the boomers would be with exum, Maker, Bolden, Simmons, broefhoff, green ?

anon the nbl guys suck.
They should be no where
near the boomers best team.

if lemanis any common sense
our Tokyo Olympics team should be something like

exum
Simmons
ingles
Bolden
Bogut

delly
mills
adel
baynes
thon
green
broekfhoff

*if lemanis has any common sense our Tokyo Olympics team should be something like

exum
Simmons 
ingles
Bolden
Bogut

delly 
mills
adel
baynes
thon
green
broekfhoff

"He doesn't. The amount of blown defensive assignments cancelled out his good play, and it was enough to get Australia the win."

All 1.5 of them? Creek being out there made us so much more versatile defensively, his ball denial was great and he made some big plays on offence.

Hopefully Lemanis uses that small ball line up more going forward.

"without fringe nba / role players like baynes, mills, bogut, delly the boomers would have lost every single game in this WC"

These are guys who have lots of experience playing together under Lemanis and know his system inside out. Have you noticed how important knowing the system has been for Australia? Of course our best players have helped us win, who also happen to be NBA players, and who also happen to understand the system very well. Have you learned anything from all the feedback you have received in this forum? Of all the games you want to talk this shit, you chose this France game?

"Imagine how much stronger the boomers would be with exum, Maker, Bolden, Simmons, broefhoff, green ?"

Yes, imagine how much stronger we would be if we had more quality rotation (and non-rotation) players available. I like how your outrage about selections creeps further into the territory of players who were simply unavailable.

"many People here have said nba role players are not necessarily better than nbl players and should not be automatically selected for the boomers. I say bullshit"

And those "many people" have been proven 100% correct.

The first criteria for selection will always be availability.
No point having senseless arguments about who should be in or out, until that is determined.

Next, what this team proves inescapably, is that the most important criteria is a willingness to sacrifice, play the team game, and stand up when needed, all for the Green & Gold. We don't need prissy prima-donnas.

Then, obviously, they have been selected on ability, as they should be.

. Nice Job by the players and the coaches. Say what you will about the coaching staff for the Boomers, but at least they're not yelling at their players like all the other coaches seem to do.

"NBL players suck" "Sack Lemanis" "What is Kay doing out there?" "Why isn't *insert athletic kid with no experience* there?"

Boomers walk through the "group of death" unscathed 5-0.

Anyone working on apologies or are you gonna keep doubling down on the bS?

How about coming back after being 9 down late in the 3rd? This team has so much determination.

Nostraballmus agrees, one of the great Boomer wins. He also acknowledges 'medals over money crew' as one of the great calls of this forum.

He respectfully advises that some very tough games ahead to medal still; Czech will be tough, and the revenge game v Spain in the semi. Can we do it ? We should last night we can, but also that it will be tough and close.

Nostraballmus suggests that if this team medals there is no place for any ‘money’ boys in Tokyo and even if they don’t after the heart and soul performances of this team so far he will need some convincing to drop someone for a ‘I’ll play when I want to’

I’m not a social media boy but have any if the money boys shown an interest in the team or they too busy playin pick up ?

Czech won't be easy, the flip side to requiring resilience in every match is that at some point you get burned from a close game, and the 30yos will get fatigued as they have to take on more games, harder opponents.

Extremely proud of the record effort by Aussies though.

Next year I suspect the old legs being a year older will be perfect time to turn Bogut, Baynes, Mills, Delly, Ingles into roleplayers as the new gen join the fray.

Too enthralled in the game last night to post. Absolutely thrilled with another W but even more impressed by the way this group fight back from adversity each time.

Apart for the Baynes brain explosion against the DR (he's forgiven by the way) their composure and focus is admirable. That can also be said of the coaching staff. AL already probably ranks as GOAT Boomers coach.

Oh and bye the way..... Sack the French coach.

"Next year I suspect the old legs being a year older will be perfect time to turn Bogut, Baynes, Mills, Delly, Ingles into roleplayers as the new gen join the fray."

There is no time for that. Next year must be a continuation of this year, after all it's continuity that is making the Boomers so tough now. The time for the next generation to step in will be after 2020, and they will be driving the bus in 2023.

Dang Boomers, epic performance! When Bogut fouled out and walk to the bench Baynes walked on nodding he head to Bogut and tapping his chest like, "I got this".

As a Lemanis hater, credit where credits due, he's done a sterling job with this game plan. Hopefully there are no choke scenarios coming up and we take care of the Czech and go for a medal.

Only thing I would've changed with this team is included Damien Martin, can't underestimate his leadership, experience and hustle. 5 minutes per game on lockdown roles would have been much more valuable than Sobey, Gliddon or Barlow warming the bench, but I understand everyone can't play solid minutes.

This Boomers team seems to need a jolt each game. Not until we lose our (slim) leads do we really get into gear. The pattern, so far, has been to just keep our heads in front for 1st half. Lose that lead during late 3rd q, with some quite sloppy execution. Turnovers, rushed/missed shots, offensive confusion, fouls, then, extract our fingers and get the very close wins in the dying seconds. Seems that we create those extremes by either losing or re-gaining our focus. Our fate is in our own hands.

But honestly, in this one, le Blu really did fall apart. Gobert, in particular. (Giannis seemed to suffer the same fate in Greece's game.)

As the tournie gets deeper, the opposition gets better (obviously). But I suppose that we do too!

Where are my heart tabs?
**************************
By the way. Lots has been said that we are hiding some strategies and rolling them out as needed. I am not up with x's and 0's to recognise new strategies etc. Have we, in fact, added bits to our game?

Great win last night. Patty and Baynes, just absolutely killed it. Ingles, Delly and Creek all did their bit. This team responds so well to a tough patch. It'd be nice if we could go a game without having to though!

My heart was definitely in my mouth when Patty stole the inbounds and then threw it back towards the French basket.

Had some trouble getting to sleep last night - I'm thinking the 11pm (AEST) tip off Wednesday is gonna be another poor night sleep either way.

Baynes Mills Ingles were the 3 we turned to, to get it done.

Delladova was solid.

We found Creek to go with them as well.

The rest didn't have great games. We were a bit lucky. Not sure we shoot like that ever again.

Would've liked another good defender on this team(Adel being the obvious choice)

Creek should've been in the team to begin with it's pretty obvious. His defence is going to be more and more important as this competition goes on.

Too bad Bolden didn't stay and fight for the starting PF role. I think he came into camp after an offseason and spent it trying to get fit. While Landale was fit and trying to prove himself at summer league.

As Bolden got fitter maybe he could've got the starting position. Plus got positive PR from it. It's really how you sell your position.

With players like Jokic and Bjelica coming off the bench. It's hardly insulting.

Also for next year.

From what I've noticed from the world cup is how important spacing is. I don't see Exum and Simmons being on the court together.

I think the team for next year will look like this

Mills
Simmons
Ingles
Bolden/Landale
Baynes

Delladova
Exum
Broekhoff
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel
Landale/Bolden
Bogut
Maker

With PF being so weak there is an argument to start Simmons there too and going something like this

Mills
Broekhoff
Ingles
Simmons
Baynes

Delladova
Exum
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel/Goulding
Green/Cooks/Creek/Adel/Goulding
Landale/Bolden
Bogut/Landale/Bolden
Maker/Landale/Bolden

Quite possibly the last go round in 2020 together for Mills, Ingles, Baynes , Bogut and maybe Dellavedova they will be going all out to win an Olympic medal.
Simmons should be a lock.

The other 6 players will come from
Goulding, Creek, Landale,Cooks, Broekhoff, Bolden, Maker and Cotton if ready in time.

Kay and Exum will also be in contention. Both valued in the group.

"AL already probably ranks as GOAT Boomers coach."

I'd been thinking the case for this statement looked pretty strong once the Boomers made it out of Round 1 with no losses. The subsequent results have strengthened the argument.

Given the way the team has performed in Rio and in this tournament, the coaching staff have to get a lot of the credit. They've picked the players, given them the system to work to and gotten the players to buy into it, even with backs to the wall in some tough games.

France need more NBL players

Was watching it live at the time and Gaze classically was lost for words stopping mid-sentence when the coverage panned in on her.

don't get credit for planting the tree if you didn't help dig the hole. Screw all these sissies that were too busy to help dig the hole. Every single team we played probably had better athletes. Remember we're mostly just a bunch of old white guys. But they work together, they like each other, they've got experience. And we've got some mild-mannered coaches that don't yell at the players and don't drop f-bombs. I say dance with the one who brung you.

"The rest didn't have great games. We were a bit lucky. Not sure we shoot like that ever again.
"

They've consistently shot similar to this. They shoot the most three point shots of any remaining team by far, and they're doing so around 40 percent.

What a massive, massive, massive win. A historic victory for Aussie basketball.

Both teams shot the lights out. A high quality game.

Patty was sublime, Baynes was inspirational, Ingles keeps doing whatever it is that the team needs- last night it was scoring, and Creek's hustle, D and team game was invaluable. The whole team should be proud of this achievement- Lemanis has them well drilled, and they’re bringing some good form at the right time. But the best is yet to come- I hope.

After a St Kilda premiership, seeing the Boomers medal at a major tourney is second on my sporting dreams list. Keep on keeping on boys, it’s almost within your grasp.

Watching timeouts, you can see that this coaching group has been assembled in what seems to be a fairly flat structure and there looks to be consistent buy-in. With the players too.

'AL already probably ranks as GOAT Boomers coach'

Nostraballmus disagrees, for nw. For he says this undisputed title will go to he who delivers the first medal.

Right now, Nostraballmus concedes AL is in the discussion having delivered a fourth at the Olympics. Barnes did this twice, Hurley did it first, Gaze made us internationally competitive. Goorjian, Brown, Smyth - just no. Nostraballmus argues that AL has achieved only the same as or less than these others (so far) but with the most talented Boomers generation ever, being the only Boomers coach to have led the medal quest with multiple, active NBA players.

Nostraballmus says if AL delivers metal, he becomes the GOAT Boomers coach, but not yet. Nostraballmus hopes with all his might he can annoint AL with this title on Sunday night.

One thing that I don't think has been made enough of is Ingles' defense of Fournier late in the game... the guy couldn't hit after that.

Just to add to the discussion... I'd be keen to see Creek back in the Olympics side... he's played a great role. Also happy to see the guys toward the end of the bench subbed out for Exum, Simmons, Broekhoff & Cooks.

I'm pretty indifferent on Bolden... I think his response to playing time in Perth is a genuine character flaw. The Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys are pretty down on Bolden because of poor decision making and missed defensive assignments because of low Basketball IQ. As much as he is tallented, he's just as likely to do something dumb at the Olympics... as a Sixers & Boomers fan... I genuinely hope that he matures and fulfils his potential over this NBA season.

Last night was the greatest Boomers game I've seen in my lifetime... great work team & great work coaching staff.

Personally I think Cotton is a key player we need to get for the olympics (if he can become an Aussie citizen in time).

When teams lock down on Mills we could really do with another solid 3 point shooter and I think he is the guy to look at.

Also those going on about NBA isn't that good.

Comeon.

We closed the game with this lineup

Baynes
Creek
Ingles
Delladova
Mills

5 guys who played in the NBA last year. While the only other NBA player Bogut fouled out.

NBA players are going to be the core of our team. But there is not much difference between a borderline in the NBA player (Bolden Adel Creek) and a borderline outside the NBA player (Landale Cooks Goulding) The difference there comes down to how committed you are to play in the NBA (will you do it for less money and less playing time) and the opinion of one general manager to another.

Any player in an NBA rotation is going to make the 12 next year.

Creek had an outstanding game, no question. Doesn't make him the Messiah, but you can't deny it was a great game.

We won a close game, and there will always be an element of luck in that, but we'll take it.

How many times in your life, will you see Aron Baynes get put on his arse 3 times, and each time come up with the Charge?

Will laugh till I piss if France now beats the USA. LOL

ME

"They've consistently shot similar to this. They shoot the most three point shots of any remaining team by far, and they're doing so around 40 percent."

Australia shot (13/27 or 48.1%)

They average 40.8% for the world cup a stat that's bumped up by the last game (38.8% before this game)

If they shot at their regular % they go 10 or 11 from those 27 and we lose that game.

Admittedly I thought we shot at a higher percentage but that was a shoot out for the ages. Felt like nothing could miss.

I think moving ahead the replacements are kind of obvious and easy.

You won't see Nathan Sobey, Cam Gliddon or David Barlow. So enter Ben Simmons, Dante Exum and Thon Maker. That alone is a massive upgrade and probably forces Delly to the bench and brings in two starter-level guys into bench rotation with Mills, Baynes and maybe even Landale retaining their spots.

Then you have the 'maybe' guys left - Goulding, Creek, Kay. Goulding has done an admirable job replacing Broekhoff and there will be a fight for that position between the two, NBA or not. Cooks and Creek will fight out their position. Kay will again fight it out with Motum for a spot. And I don't even want to hear the name "Jonah Bolden" brought up as an option. He is unwilling to sacrifice himself for the team, and as such, he is not Boomers quality.

Ben Simmons
Patty Mills
Joe Ingles
Jock Landale
Aron Baynes

Matthew Dellavedova
Bryce Cotton
Dante Exum
Ryan Broekhoff/Chris Goulding
Cooks/Mitch Creek
Thon Maker
Andrew Bogut

--- other players worth considering ---

Josh Green
Deng Adel
Isaac Humphries
William McDowell-White
Nick Kay
Brock Motum

ME

Your team has too many Guards

It's not very balanced

"ME

Your team has too many Guards

It's not very balanced"

Following the method Lemanis uses in team selection



"For a supposedly smart player and good defender why is bogut fouling out every game?"

Yep, pretty done with the concept of Bogut as a good defender now. Refuses to show a hand on shots, which is the absolute bare minimum of defense. Doesn't appear to put any more effort in than he absolutely must. I mean if the guy is within a foot of him, he's a good defender, but if he needs to close the gap he's just letting guys play H-O-R-S-E with him and it needs to stop.

ME
I think there is a consensus that Lemanis choose too many Guards

Ie Creek coming in and going straight into the rotation.

Your team depth chart looks like this

Simmons Delladova Exum Cotton
Mills Broekhoff
Ingles Cooks
Landale
Baynes Bogut Maker

Our initial rotation looked like this
Delladova Sobey
Mills Goulding Gliddon
Ingles Cooks
Landale Bolden Kay
Baynes Bogut

Nice work anon. Coming into correct someone unnecessarily and getting it all wrong.

Cotton is a 1/2 (naturally a one but can play 2 in the NBL)
Broekhoff is a 2/3 that can pinch hit at the four cos his length and rebounding
Maker is a 5/4, who would almost certainly be stuck at the 5 for the Boomers.

Anon

Even with your changes which are questionable

Starters. Rotation. Subs
Simmons Delladova Exum
Mills Cotton
Ingles Broekhoff Cooks
Landale Maker
Baynes Bogut

You can see there is a lack of depth at the big position to deal with injuries or a tweak where a player misses a game

Anon

Even with your changes which are questionable

Starters. Rotation. Subs
Simmons Delladova Exum
Mills. ------ Cotton
Ingles Broekhoff Cooks
Landale Maker
Baynes Bogut

You can see there is a lack of depth at the big position to deal with injuries or a tweak where a player misses a game

I'd still recommend

Starters------Rotation-------Emergencies
Simmons-------Delladova------Exum
Mills---------Broekhoff
Ingles-----------------------Cooks
Bolden--------Landale
Baynes--------Maker----------Bogut

Obviously
Green Adel Goulding Creek all pushing for a spot.

(Also open to moving Simmons to PF) (But I think if he's your PG you keep him at PG for the tournament. Don't shuffle around your best player too much)

I don't know why people are so intent on locking in a 12 man line up a year out from a tournament, especially when we didn't have this one until days beforehand.

I think a squad of the following would be a great start

G Simmons/Delly/Exum
G Mills / Goulding / Cotton
F Ingles / Broekhoff / Creek / Cooks / Adel
F Landale / Kay / Motum / Bolden / Maker
C Baynes / Bogut / Humphries

That's 19 guys who I'd say, if healthy and available, all have a decent crack at making the side. There's a bunch of guys (Cooks, Simmons, Exum, Ingles) who can play multiple positions/roles, meaning balance of the 12 could end up looking funny but actually be fine - IE Simmons playing the 4 defensively

Other guys who could sneak into the squad if they have big years or we have a bunch of outs are guys like:
McDowell-White
Sobey
Gliddon
Bairstow

Locks:

Mills
Ingles
Baynes
Delly

If those guys are reasonably healthy, rest assured they'll be in Tokyo.

The rest can wait- it's 12 months away! Who knows how Bogut's body will hold up? Who knows how many times Simmons will to and fro and change his mind about playing?

With those 4 guys and a capable support crew of role players, Boomers are well placed for Rio.

Simmons will play as a mobile, all-court 3-4 man at this point in his international career, I have no doubt about that. The USA had a lot of success with Anthony, James, Durant etc in that type of role.

No point making him try to learn the international PG spot (which is different to the NBA PG spot in terms of the defences you need to read) on the fly, just put him into spots where he can use his skills.

For me there will be minimal change to this year's team as they'll want to keep the same chemistry, so it could look something like this:

Dellavedova Exum
Mills Goulding
Ingles Broekhoff Creek
Simmons Kay Landale
Baynes Bogut

The other two in serious contention would be Maker and Cooks for mine, and possibly Cotton if he gets citizenship in time, but tough for him to pass guys like Exum and Goulding who already know the system and the international game.

That would be a good team Paul.

And its a good example of what I was saying where it might look out of balanced - only 4 nominal backcourt players - but with Ingles and Simmons both able to handle the ball it provides so many options.

Had some trouble getting to sleep last night - I'm thinking the 11pm (AEST) tip off Wednesday is gonna be another poor night sleep either way.

As usual, paul delivers the goods. Unfortunately, if it pans out that way, Dave/Makur will be spamming this forum with his objections for another year.

What intrigues me about the new blood in the team is the versatility of the players. Cooks, Simmons, Exum, Maker, Bolden, Adel have a defensive versatility that might allow switching on all picks. Elite NBA teams seem to prefer that kind of defense; how effective will it be in international FIBA?

rjd, I'd label all 6 of your names as 'exciting but unproven', even Exum as he comes back from injury.
In other words, taking any of them will involve a risk that they cannot (or will not) adjust to the system, or cannot handle the pressure.

In the case of Maker and Bolden, I'd even add that they may not have the right body type or level of experience for their role. Neither would be strong or heavy enough to handle the Euro bigs, and nobody (!) would be good enough to handle athletic bigs such as Durant or Giannis.
There's also a risk that they depend on their athleticism and leap too much in defence rather than just playing smart - I could see someone like Maker getting faked into the air looking for a block, and then watching his player go past him for the basket or under him for the foul.

I'd be cautious about trying to take advantage of Simmons' flexibility, as well: if we expect him to play any of 4 positions, then won't he need to learn the system from 4 different points of view? That's asking a lot of ANYONE, no matter how skilled or exciting he is. And then there's the elephant in the room - wherever he plays, if he cannot hit outside shot reliably then others have to pick up his slack, or plays have to be designed for when he's on the court versus when he's off.


As Andre has done, let's choose horses for courses rather than just go by the fact that someone plays NBA, which usually involves iso play and flashiness over hard-nosed grind-it-out teamwork, and typically playing a limited role in a very tight team system which may be very different from Andre's.

Something else that Lemanis looks like he has achieved. Something that it's quite difficult to do.

He appears to have set a tone where he isn't pandering or making unreasonable allowances to players based on their reputation.

If you want in and are good enough.... Fine.

If you not fully committed AL will go with someone who is.

I agree with all those concerns, hoopie. I suppose I'm thinking about the next generation. We have a lot of young talent that have never played together. Not even much on junior teams. And given the NBA scheduling, they may not play together until 2023. Australia has always previously had the advantage of chemistry.

excellent point, red

*rjd

nick kay and goulding had terrible game against France.
sobey, gliddon, Barlow did not get any court time. we had to rely on the nba guys to get us over the line.

Tell us more Dave.

I wouldn't be locking in Simmons and Bolden. Bolden had a dummy spit over minutes and shouldn't be allowed to just waltz back in without kissing some feet. Simmons has posted about everything else in the world cup except the Boomers. It's actually been comical. He's posted more about some movie about racism than he has about this team that he allegedly wants to play for so badly going undefeated. In contrast, Thon Maker, Ryan Broekhoff and Dante Exum have been posting about the Boomers after every game. You can pretty much see who grew up with a dream to play for this team and who didn't.

ME, cut Simmons some slack, he did say he wants to play for the boomers in 2020 olympics.

Bolden had good reason to be upset. A less talented player like kay had more playing time than him.

Simmons also experienced racism in Melbourne. An Alf legend (more like a jerk) told him to go back to America and don't come back to Australia. How would you feel if you are simmons? Did he feel welcomed to the country when he was in Melbourne ? Don't blame Simmons if he does not play for us again, the Aussie public did not treat him with respect.

mitch creek is doing very well for the team. OTOH sobey, gliddon, barlow could not get any playing time. Just show you lemanis got his player selections wrong. Mitch creek should have been picked in the original squad of 12. Adel and Green would have made more impacts than gliddon and Barlow in this WC

At this stage, Gliddon, Sobey and Barlow appear to be insurance picks to cover injury. Lemanis has gone with a reduced rotation compared with Rio. It's not unusual for coaches to go with less players in the rotation for chemistry reasons. There's no compulsion to go 12 deep. Hopefully our guys have enough energy in the tank, playing their 6th game in 11 days. By the way, Czechia have used a similar depth in main rotation.

I pretty much agree. And as for "protecting his brand", I really don't see how his brand or his value would have been diminished by being a bench player behind a group of NBA vets who pushed their country into the quarter finals of the world cup. International basketball is not typically defined by a bunch of young kids with potential putting on a talent show trying to impress pro teams.
Oops.
Bolden with a Boomers attitude would have been a handy player to have in the 12.

100% Luuuc.

Tells us that Bolden could outcast himself if his attitude doesn't get to the high standards of Bogut/Delly/Mills/Ingles/Baynes.

Bolden was playing behind Landale and Kay, little wonder he left.

He was playing behind them because 1) he didn't know the system as well and 2) he wasn't performing as well.

When you look at the apparent decline of Landale over the tournament it stands to reason that Bolden would have eventually earned those starter minutes.

If a player isn't about being a team guy, and if he has no interest in earning his minutes, and putting the team ahead of himself, I don't want him in the Boomers. What the Boomers have is something pretty special, and it is a group of guys who would basically die for eachother on the court. I don't care what your talent level is. If you don't have the buy-in needed to take charges and possibly even put your career in jeopardy for the higher goal, then you should not be out there.

Some guys have it in them to do this, and others don't. Bolden obviously doesn't. Doesn't mean I'm gonna spend the rest of his career hating on him. If NBA is his only real goal, then good for him. But he's not showing the kind of dedication needed for the Boomers and we can do without him.

He is 23 years old. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with being a bench warmer of a senior national team, especially when a heap of the other members don't have a lot of years left in them.
Even playing zero minutes in a whole tournament, I don't see why the gaining of experience with an amazing team would ever be thought of as a negative thing. Most players with ambition to be better would jump at that opportunity.

Is Bolden actually as good as he thinks he is?

"Is Bolden actually as good as he thinks he is?"

Not really. He's another guy in the NBA for potential who has about 2-3 years to prove himself before having the door closed on him. Has the size and athleticism, has some tools, but is yet to really do anything. If he thinks having potential is what will get him a starting Boomers gig then he is severely mistaken.

I'd say Bolden is as good as he thinks he is.

He had an amazing year in the NBA this year, pretty much being brought in to join the roster and split time in the G-League, and ending up having a solid role (15mpg) and playing a proper part of the rotation.

His shooting splits show it wasn't a fluke and it wasn't gifted minutes.

It seems him leaving was a bit of a bitch move, but I think ideally we want him as part of the Boomers program.

Nostraballmus says plus minus is a b$llshit stat if used to justify a single players performance. It reflects the performance of the combinations of players the player was in, not he or she's own performance in isolation. U can do nothing or bad things and still have a great plus minus and vice versus.

We also don't know when Bolden made the decision to withdraw or when he informed Lemanis. Remember, he only played in the two Canada games, each game without either Bogut or Baynes. This meant that we needed someone to take some minutes at the 5. With Landale impressing enough to take the starting 4 spot, and Kay not suitable at the 5, Bolden might've taken those backup 5-man minutes by default. So we don't know if Bolden's actual intended role was as a 3rd string 5, or whether intended to use him to consolidate the 4-man rotation. Remember, in Rio we had a 3 player 4-man rotation of Andersen, Motum and Bairstow, before Bairstow was injured mid-tournament.

If Bolden was behind Kay I 100% understand his reason for leaving.

He wouldn't be getting any game time and hence might not have got a shot to fight for minutes.(unless there was an injury)

If he was just behind Landale and was going to get the back up minutes. Then it's disappointing because he really could've fought for those minutes. Bogut & Landale have been disappointing. But securing his life in the NBA is probably his number 1 priority and I accept that.

Bolden is in the NBA for his potential but he has shown enough sparks that should keep him in the NBA. He got playoff minutes last season and while he is expected to take a step back in the pecking order this year(due to new signings). Last year he showed he cam fight for those minutes and jump up the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong if he doesn't keep improving he could be out of the NBA(look at Anthony Randolph)

But he's shown plenty of potential and it's obvious he's stronger and more athletic than Landale.

I don't think he came into the camp game fit which is why Landale jumped him.

Either way PF is our weakest position atm we can't be turning away guys.

Mitch Creek and his minutes at the four starting to look like an X-factor in this tournament.

Bolden would've been very handy, and is a bit of a missing link right now.

IMO you just don't turn down a spot due to perceived lack of opportunity. Even if you're out of the rotation and sitting on your bum for 9 days straight you never know when foul trouble, an injury, or a specific match-up is going to get your number called.
Maybe that wasn't his reasoning anyway ... I don't know, so I'm not going to hold it against him. But I do think that had he been there in place of Barlow, he likely would have hit the court at some stage by now.
Hopefully he puts himself back in the mix for Tokyo.

Jonah is a nice guy.