Had another look. Not sure what happened with that charge. He definitely went down again. Might have just been a knock to the guts or maybe even nuts.
Seemed to moving ok in the 4th, maybe slightly favouring his right arm, but not much at all.
Definite grimacing when putting on his shirt, but hopefully just a niggle he's carrying.
Going to him and all the starters firing for the Spaniards.
The extra day's rest is big, especially when you consider the Boomers go from playing the latest timeslot of the tournament and then have to back up 43 hours later. Spain have had a full 3 days rest.
The biggest hurdle against Spain is that they replicate a lot of what has been successful for us - battle hardened vets that have played together for years. Only they've done it in the biggest of games.
We can definitely get them, but I think we are underdogs. I don't think that's a bad thing though, as I think Australia plays better when they're chasing rather than being chased.
Significant differences in rest should be scheduled early in the tournament. Quarters were played across different venues, so there's no reason they couldn't all have been on the same day.
The Boomers will be so motivated for this game, but it's a huge difference in recovery periods and definitely gives Spain an edge.
Boomers were a touch sloppy in that first half last night. Czech don't look as good as France or Lithuania. They were mixing up the defensive looks more than other opponents had, but it was disappointing how they made the Boomers look out of sync.
Hopefully the Boomers pattern of the whole tournament continues for the next game- one good game, one somewhat off game, then another good one...and so on.
Extra days rest makes Spain the slight favourites.
On the other hand, Spain have started slow in this tourney- were down double digits vs both Tunisia and Iran- Iran jumped them 10-0. Serbia and Puerto Rico led them at quarter time. I'm hoping the Boomers get the jump, and then ride on a wave of confidence and keep the lead.
What a game this will be, on paper I'd expect it to be the toughest game of the tournament.
Spain in a similar position to us, whereby these had the same core @ international level for a number of years now.
Rubio has been firing and they've been getting even contributions across the board and again, similar to us they play beautiful fundamental team bball sharing the ball.
We need one of those perfect games again similar to to our France performance.
Last nights game whilst gritty just wont get it done, too sloppy with the turnovers and need some scoring support behind Patty. Will need significant scoring contributions from Joe and Baynes.
Win this and we're in Pole position for that Gold you'd think!
I don't know that a win over Spain makes us favourites for gold. A second win against France is probably going to be just as hard if not harder to get than the first. If Argentina knock them off, maybe.
My hope is that Jingles is overdue a great game and if Mills keeps firing, it doesn't take much from the rest of the crew to elevate us to a really high levle.
Thanks Luuc for posting that video, yes we owe them one for the flop but with 5 seconds to go we did botch the next possession when we should have at least done the same and driven to the rack to try and draw a foul!
Let's get over that now and rewrite history, GO BOOMERS!
Yeah we needed career shooting night by Baynes and a few missed bunnies by France to get that game. Yes we made some big plays, but you can't rely on that all the time. I would say any of the 4 teams is more than capable of winning the gold if they play near their best. That is pretty exciting.
I know its all about sticking to the plan and going with what works...
I think we have a better team, but they have some stars who are capable of destroying us all on their own.
Rubio might be the best PG left in the comp, and he carries that team. Can Delly shut him down? That could be the key to the game.
If Delly's off, or gets into foul trouble we need maybe CG to try and keep him contained.
Gasol has been having a great tourney. He has been dominant, and playing good minutes. His backup is ok, without being great.
I don't know if Baynes can contain him? Should we start Bogut??
The battle between Jingles & Fernandez is going to be epic.
Boomers at risk because they rely too much on the 3 ball. Would love to see more emphasis on transition. Boomers also exposed on the curious way they've chosen to defend the on ball screens, giving away a midrange every time. On the other hand it was great to see Bogey sticking the points away late in the Czech game, more of that please. And I agree with a few others that Ingles is due a big game.
Like the video but hate it.
I think on the last Aus possession it was tipped away on a pass. So in my mind we can't blame lemon grass for that.
Also watching the video can't help thinking broekoff would be a nice distraction sitting in the corner!
Also I am loving that Paul isn't there to destroy us.
Not confident but optimistic for a win
(Also since I haven't watched the last two games live I will be abstaining in case I jinx them)
"Rubio does not carry the team, they have another guy in llull"
What, a basketball team with more than one guard? Whoever heard of such a thing.
Rubio is the most important player on their team. If we can shut him down (without letting their other players run amok) we could win this game.
Of course it is never that simple. But it will be interesting to watch the match-ups.
Spain has not been a huge 3-point team, so it will be interesting to see if our strategy of conceding the mid-range works
Where did I say they were a one man team? Or anything even remotely close to that?
As I pointed out, they have THREE guys who are exceptional, and I thought worthy of mention. In point of fact their entire starting 5 is impressive, as you would expect. Their starting Forward, (Clavier?) is no slouch and probably a better allround player than Landale.
But Rubio is a class above. He was on fire against the Pols.
As I said, its not that simple. He's had one off game, against IRAN,
so nobody has been able to shut him down.
Sorry if it offends people to point out that anybody but Australia has great players. As I said, the way GC has been playing, and even Kay & Creek. I think we have a better 8~9 man rotation than Spain, so a better team, but they do have some better players.
There are great match ups across the board,
Delly/Creek v Rubio
Ingles v Fernandez
Baynes v Claver/Willy H
Bogut v Gasol
Mills/Goulding v Llull/Ribus
Landale/Kay v Juancho H/Oriola
Hopefully Joey has some personal insight which gives Australia an effective strategy to blunt Ricky's influence.
But, as mentioned, Spain have multiple guys who can be game winners on the biggest international stage so shutting down Ricky is only one part of the puzzle.
I think the Spanish are jtst as worried about Mills and Co and like 2016 I anticipate a tight match. To close to call but I hope Australia prevails.
I see a case for starting Creek on Rubio with the sole purpose of upsetting his rhythm. I can't see a case for not starting Delly though (or anyone else).
If you're prepared to throw caution to the wind for the sake of this game and do the above, then it would be easier to replace Creek in the starting 5 with Sobey with express instructions that Rubio is shut down. Even to the extent of fouling to stop him. Give him hell, just short of dirty or thuggish (I don't ever want to see that). Just to try so hard that he will cause fouls anyway. Just stop him early. He has the speed, he sees himself as a bit of a bulldog and, with all due respect for Sobey, he is more expendable than Creek as things stand.
Then Delly, and he's no slouch on D and can take over running the team resting Mills and Ingles from pressures they, no doubt, have been receiving without having to sub out of the game. He's also that little bit fresher than Rubio, hasn't been hassled for the 2 or 3 mins of Sobey's involvement and hopefully, Rubio has picked up a foul cos Sobey has pissed him off so much.
No. 2 Shane Heal Fan
'Tougher than an NBA schedule': The Australian Boomers’ World Cup campaign is taking its toll
While everyone around him was kicking it, Nostraballmus first picked up a ball in country NSW in 1983. Very soon after he became a Boomers fan. You don't choose your team, your team chooses you.
Today is a big day. Only eight previous days since 1983 has Nostraballmus woken with the same question on his mind as today - is it Medal Day ???
GO YOU BOOMERS
No. 2 Shane Heal Fan
Joe Ingles is the Boomers' sh*t-talking extraordinaire. It all stems from having some perspective
This is overly simplistic but I am a little concerned in regards to our defensive strategy versus Spain's scoring.
We apparently try to limit 3-point shooting, and close-in shooting, whilst conceding the (statistically poor) mid-range.
However it appears that Spain are quite strong in that area
7th game - 26 hour shorter turnaround and double overtime. Fair thing would be for all QF games played on the same night so all 4 teams have the same break before the next game. Australia were always at a big physical disadvantage and amplified by double overtime
Let's keep things in perspective. Did we really expect that our Boomers would play in the Gold Medal game? How far they have come is already a win. If they win the bronze game then that is a smashing success. It would be disappointing if they lost that game however.
Baynes for 3 to keep us alive.If they're going to call that, they should've called the one that caused the Mills turnover at the end of regulation and this game would've been over then and there.
Silly foul by Creek though
Somehow Spain are the least responsible of the three teams on the court for that win.
Ingles has been disastrous. Cute passes, turning down open shots, missing what he does take probably because he second guesses it then has to shoot with no rhythm. The fact that he played basically the whole game while contributing very little (-15) was probably a mistake on Lemanis' part.
Still, I think they were fantastic tonight. The bad call on Bogut to put Spain up at the end of regulation and Patty's missed FT will haunt us for a while. The errors in the OTs were forgivable given Spain had the extra rest and our best guys were out of legs.
Kay was fantastic and should be a lock for Tokyo. Whether we take bronze on Sunday or not, this group have shown that they deserve a chance next year.
We choked, pure and simple. You could see the writing on the wall in the 4th quarter when Delly kept missing open 3s and Joe was top scared to shoot the ball. Meanwhile ESP were knocking down most of their 3s and walking the ball to the basket for easy 2s.
The Aussies need to take their focus off winning gold medals and simply trying to maintain their mental focus for a whole game of basketball. You can just see in the tight moments the weight of the world falling on their shoulders, the pressure is simply too immense and they go into their shells, unable to win and desperately trying not to lose.
Any one who knocks any player that played today are losers who have never done anything. Nine man rotation ask your self how many Spain used nine you fu.k wits.
Great effort boomers an extra day off would've helped so tiredness crept in but well played and coached by all.
Well done to Kay. Played world class and great selection for the team even against the advice from experts on this forum.
He was very good. Played a lot of crunch time minutes, and deservedly so.
16 points & 11 boards in a world cup semi final. Has come a long way in a month!
Everyone needs to calm down. The boomers were big underdogs in this match and they were for a reason, and it was the reason we lost. This Spain team is a powerhouse with experience on the world stage. Of course they are going to have a cool head in crunch time. Did we have our chances? Certainly. But the fact we had our chances shows how well this team did. If you asked if the boomers would be playing to get into the gold medal match two weeks ago you would be crazy. Now we have a shot at a bronze medal. Let's be honest our goal really has been to get a medal. You can believe this team will be hungry to win that game. I suspect we will be playing Argentina and I suspect we will make history on Sunday night with a podium finish.
Sorry but Joe hasn't been great this tourney and it was pretty evident tonight. Unfortunately he doesn't show up at these big tournaments for Oz. The guy almost had the best 3 point % in the NBA a few years back and this should have been his event in the department......
Wow, hell of a game. Mills and Kay brilliant. That pair kept us in front almost the whole game.
Can't prepare for Ingles and Goulding shooting 1/12 from 3 between them. Or Delly and Mills having 13 turnovers between them. Some great players just weren't quite able to carry us one more time. They are great players though, let's hope they can dig deep for Sunday.
"we would have won the gold with adel, green and bolden, it is all Lemannis' faults"
Wow tell me the tattslotto numbers champ! Outside your fantasy squad: The entire squad put in 100% and we didnt get it done in 2nd OT.
Well done to the entire team!
Extremely deflating, we did so much right in this game and other than turnovers and Goulding throwing up rubbish when we needed him (not hating on him but his shot didn't look like it would drop in the second half).
Immensely proud of Nick Kay and how he performed for us. I wouldn't say he's a lock for Tokyo but he will be hard to displace.
I know others don't care about Bronze but I still want it. This game will cause so much mental scarring and hopefully a bronze will alleviate some of that going forward.
Will this loss hurt how this sport is seen in Australia ?
I feel like we needed that gold medal game to really hammer home the momentum that this sport has seen of late.
Hard loss to stomach, but it was great to see the boomers do so well.
I'm really excited to see Brokeoff, exum and Simmons join this squad - we were really short some guards and wings this tourney, given how run down delly and ingles were.
Bolden would have helped tonight a lot
Boomers took Spain again all the way as underdogs, with a day less rest, appearing tired, and nearly stole the win. Obviously could've gone either way. I'd like to be able to say refereeing wasn't a factor, but it's as much to do with the Spanish acting.
Both teams appeared tired. The extra day rest was surely beneficial to Spain being on the FIBA-assisted half of the draw.
With late game exhaustion kicking in, Spain effectively ran some basic pick-n-rolls, the good old NBA-style option when you are required to play so many games/minutes. This is the case where running a system like Lemanis is a tough ask, especially in 2OT after a tough schedule. Ingles has the capacity to run this action too to generate some easy baskets without too much action from others, but he was strangely passive. Without Ingles's scoring threat, teams can adjust and nullify him too easily.
Still have a chance to steal a bronze medal. It's already Australia's best tournament ever IMO.
Nuffy anon trashing Kay. Probably the same one, no balls to put a name down
If you had to point a finger it would be it wouldn't be at him. Played 10x the expectation people had of him, especially when landale just isn't strong enough yet, but still gets scapegoated. He wasn't the ball handlers dishing out turnovers like candy, or missing crucial 3s during the game.
OK! So we are all heartbroken. Reckon that that game will be seen as the best game, overall. A mighty effort by both teams. Congrats and Damnation to the Spaniards.
Let's all cheer the Boomers through their next and last game of this WC against .. whomever? They have been oustanding, IMO, learnt and progressed at nearly every step.
If any of them are silly enough to read our comments, let's let them know that we are there for them to the last.
Go Boomers, here comes our first medal! Bronze may even become my favorite colour!
A squad and coaching staff that showed all the smarts until they needed it most. The Offence fell apart. The switching on Gasol never worked but no adjustments made.
No one wanted to shoot the ball for fear of missing/being blocked.
Coach going with Kay/Bogut not Landale (for some more minutes) and Baynes, refusing to switch things up with Goulding and Creek as they had all tournament more signs of a group that had too much pressure on their shoulders in this one.
Played against a great team and lost composure when they needed it the most. Tough to get back to their best in time for a bronze game against one of two very good teams. Another 4th coming for the Boomers.
Everyone saying we're playing for Bronze on Sunday are the Shane Heals and Andrew Gazes of the world constantly annoyingly hyping and over estimating the performance or possible outcome - lower your expectations - after that loss which takes a huge mental toll and quite clearly the players were gassed I would not be surprised if the Boomers are flogged Sunday
Fucking gutted :(
That was hard to watch. Too many repressed memories came flooding back. But i still feel proud at where we find ourselves, given what we had to do to get here.
What is with these moron troll anons bagging out kay? He was massive tonight. If he had done nothing else all tourny he justified his inclusion in the team just from tonights performance. Clearly must be just taking the piss. Or just dont watch the game.
Lets get that bronze.
Im going back to more heavy drinking.
Yeah thats true. But several of those were 1v1 against gasol.
How often does anyone really expect him to win that?
His mistakes and misses were heavily outweighed by his good screens, box out o rebounds and defensive plays. However you look at it. He was one of our best tonight.
"moron troll anons" from someone calling themselves Flop Warning. Kay was great on the Offence Boards, but gave up 2 lay ups which he should have just dunked because he was scared of being blocked. Had his moments but you can't miss those shots when trying to reach a Gold Medal game.
This World Cup format meant teams playing one too many games (8 games) to win a medal in such a short period - its not an excuse why Boomers lost to Spain just that you are not going to get the best basketball if the players/teams are exhausted. Tonights game should have been the final played on Sunday with two full days rest for each team.
By comparison with FIFA world cup 2018 - the champion France played a total 7 games not 8.
US/Aus/Wimbledon/French Open is also over 2 weeks and the finalist play a total of 7 matches.
The only question i asked, technically. Is how often does anyone expect kay to beat gasol in a 1v1. And you didnt answer that...
I put a name to the things i say, you dont. I think its pretty obvious what you need to do.
Btw. That wasnt a question.
Have a good night mate. This is a pointless conversation. And it doesn't interest me.
Wanna talk about it further, choose a name. Im not getting involved with discussions with an anon. Hate my name choice if you want, but there is a specific reason it is what it is.
Yes Inglis looked like an old man, just hasn't been himself the last few games, he never sat on a seat at time outs, sat on what looked like an high esky. I wonder if he’s got back problems. Kay was great but for a couple of give me misses, tiredness can be a factor in this. Don’t see Kay in nba but could get a very healthy contract in good euro league team.
I don't think anyone can fault Kay tonight. How many offensive boards did he get? How many times was he inexplicably in the right place at the right time to put the ball in the hole? It was a superlative effort from Kay and he was one of our best on the day.
All of our players came up big for three and half quarters, but the experience and sheer talent of Spain was always lying in waiting, ready to boil over as soon as the opportunity arose. We failed to put our foot on their throat at key moments of the game and it cost us the game. Now, referee calls aside, and there were some head-scratchers, we had our chances multiple times and came up lacking.
As for Lemanis, I can't put that on Lemanis. This is largely the players. They looked scared out there when things got hot. They looked like they were truly haunted by Rio ghosts passed. Lemanis didn't miss sitters and didn't miss freethrows.
Regardless, if someone told me we were fight for bronze before this tournament with the way the Canada game looked, I would have been ecstatic. The bronze medal game is almost as important as the gold in the context of Australian basketball. Being the first team to medal isn't just a consolation, it's an achievement and verification of our place in the basketball world, and THAT goal still stands ready for the taking. I'm not going to bemoan what could have been when this team still has a piece of history to be made.
Spot on, ME.
Though it will take an incredible effort to bounce back from the devastation - both mental and physical - of tonight's defeat and win a bronze. I've got so much admiration and respect for this group, but I fear we will be blown out on Sunday by whoever we play (which is looking like being France).
If I feel exhausted and gutted how must the players feel!
Tell me about it - I'm so fatigued right now from this crazy week.
But seriously the tournament format with a game every two days is fine up to a certain point but continuing on into the latter rounds seems excessive, especially considering travel between new host cities on top of it all.
I think Australia were underdogs but the manner that the loss came is backbreaking. Fronting up against France on Sunday will be tough for these guys. I really hope they find it in themselves to really fight for this, and I hope - for ONCE in Australian basketball fucking history - they're rewarded with something shiny.
This Boomers team IS the best ever. Not the best talent nor deepest (Rio was better), but they have produced the best results. Even if they get blown out in the bronze medal game.
Even if they lost again, that's 6-2, the best record ever for a Boomers team in a major tournament. Have the Boomers even beaten European teams twice in a WC? In this WC, we are 3-1 with the only loss in 2OT versus Spain. So many people hold unreasonably high expectations of the Boomers. Even 4th is a massive achievement. If we grab that bronze, it deserves a parade, or at least widespread media praise, not that the Australian media ever gives the national basketball team any respect. It's understandable to be disappointed, but if you are visiting this forum you are likely to be enough of a diehard basketball fan that you should be able to appreciate the quality of basketball coming from this team.
How is it that posters are criticising Kay after this game, of all games? There must be some serious selective memory and confirmation bias going on.
Kay has been playing better and better as the campaign has gone on.
Kay was the only player to play UP to the occasion.
Ingles went missing as a scoring threat. Baynes was kept quiet, getting no looks inside the 3pt line. Delly wasn't looking threatening except for some open looks from 3. Goulding was cold/off/rushed/pressured/psyched out. Mills was under immense pressure and needed 25 shots to get to his 34 points, which is still respectable, but he was our only reliable scorer. It was our garbage guys that kept us in the game by cleaning up on the boards -- Bogut with tip-ins and Kay with 7 o-boards. People complaining about Kay missing shots: he was 7/11 for 2s! That was from smart positioning, clever cuts, good rebounding position, knowing where to go. Lemanis was absolutely right to push him above Landale in the rotation. He had 16 and 11 against Spain FFS!
Raw athleticism can be valuable. It gets onto the highlight reel. But basketball still values smarts. Basketball IQ is extremely valuable. Frankly, there shouldn't be an argument any more about Kay -- he manages to put in good performances from his basketball smarts, even at this level.
Looking towards Tokyo, Kay has asserted himself as more of lock than any other Aussie 4-man, assuming we don't classify Simmons as a 4.
A really tough loss, but in the end Spain deserved to win. They executed great offence after great offence, where we went stagnant.
Unfortunately, Lemanis chose to play 5 guys (plus one centre rotation) through the last quarter and both overtimes. During that period Kay was good on O boards, Bogut could score on tip ins only and Delay and Ingles were ZERO threat to score. Once Spain shut down Patty we had zero other scoring options.
I can understand why he stuck with the guys he did, but Lemanis needed to get some other scoring options in to the game sooner. It was clear Ingles was having a shocker, he needed to be taken out of the game.
Very tough and disappointing and unfortunately I can't see us beating France. The medal wait might have to be a bit longer.
Isaac, question below:
Long thread here too. 19th on the "most replies" sorted topics list. (Some of the longest threads are whole season state league/ old SEABL threads).
I noticed also that there were other WC 2019 threads with a lot of replies.
There has been debate about publicity/ broadcast/ public interest/ crowds/ YouTube hits/ twitter followers etc
Question to Isaac: what are the numbers like for subscription to the hoops site? I think most agree that posters here are more dedicated fans, not the casuals on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc. Are there now more diehards who've joined the hoops community? We’re more likely to stick around than the casual fans, so an increase here would be a good sign for longer term improvement in fan base.
I'm not shattered before the tournament we would've taken making it to the bronze medal game that was always considered our best possible result. IMO, we were the worst team in the SF (we needed Baynes to go off 5/6 3pt to sneak past France) and the two best teams all tournament are now in the gold medal game. We didn't deserve silver.
It's going to be hard but we need to regroup and go hard one last time to try and create history by winning our first medal. I think France are likely to win this time as all of our offensive options outside of Mills have fallen away now that we've been heavily scouted but we really need to throw caution to the wind tomorrow night.
This team is probably our best chance yet to win a medal.
He isn't we lost three warm up games before the tournament and then lost last night too, that was just something that Rugby nuffy came up with and thought sounded good.
Aside from that Kay too has impressed me in this tournament doing all the little things well and I'm willing to admit I was wrong about Motum needing to be picked ahead of him. We have missed Motum's outside shooting though but likely wouldn't be as good with him in instead of Kay.
He stepped up to international mode almost seamlessly. And if he can be as consistent with his 3 point shot with the Boomers as he has become in the NBL then his value goes up another level again.
3P% across his first 3 NBL seasons was ~ 31%. Last season was 43.6%. I want to see him letting it fly with confidence this season.
"Apparently there have only been 19 double-doubles posted by Boomers players in WC/Olympic history. Kay's was the first to do it off the bench."
Kay's was also the first ever double-double by a Boomer in a knockout or medal round game. Pretty impressive.
Question to Isaac: what are the numbers like for subscription to the hoops site? I think most agree that posters here are more dedicated fans, not the casuals on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc. Are there now more diehards who've joined the hoops community? We're more likely to stick around than the casual fans, so an increase here would be a good sign for longer term improvement in fan base.I don't have time day to day to pay attention to formal subscriptions or anything like that. I do occasionally check site stats for visitorship and they are solid over the years. Given a lot of interest would've gone to Twitter (where there are more than casuals too), I'd guess combined interest would be higher. e.g., Hoops has at least stayed level or slightly higher while Twitter chatter has also grown. It's also hard to gauge because years back there was huge interest on here for Central ABL, school threads (until I blocked most schools), etc. International tournaments are always boom times here. Then we go to NBL and NBA. It might be that while there is a great option in r/NBA for NBA news/chat, there's less competition for Boomers-specific stuff.
I usually track pageviews. The record months were August 2015 (730k) and July 2015 (670k) - not sure what was on then as it wasn't a WC/Olympic year. Had 650k in April 2018, 600k in each of October and November 2018, 630k last month. September 2019 tracking to be 600k+ assuming the Blitz is remotely interesting.
Going by Analytics' report on New Users, August 2019 was the best month of the last 10 years. Aug 2009 was 16k. Aug 2019 was 30k.
Of the last six weeks, this Spain thread is the second most popular thread. SBL August and SBL off-season threads are 1st and 3rd. Boomers-France 4th.
Doesn't appear to. Boomers games - tour and Oceania qualifying? Top threads by reply count for threads started during July-August 2015 are:
Boomers vs Tall Blacks, 15 Aug 2015Too rushed to count actual posts from those periods so there could be big ones from days in June.
Hugh Greenwood quits Wildcats to pursue AFL career
Hawks to announce Kirk Penney signing Monday?
U17 Men playing now
U18 VC Boys
U16 National Champs Tasmania
European Tour: Boomers vs Lithuania
Live stream for Emu's v Turkey?
Delly and Cavs far apart on new deal
Big V Finals
Vic Metro National Results
Games 2 Boomers v Tall Blacks
Perth Wildcats secure Jawai
36ers communications are woeful
U17 Worlds Qualifiers
R22 PL: The Last Hurrah
Cambage chooses Music over Opals
Mornington possible No Big V teams
NBL television deal, sponsors close
36ers sign import combo guard Kenyon McNeail
Greenwood replacement options
Boomers, Greenwood quit Cats, Cambage did something - it's a Hoops perfect storm.
Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 11:23 am, Wed 5 Aug 2020 | Posts: 841,720 | Last 7 days: 593